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Pen & Paper Roleplaying Central => Pen and Paper Roleplaying Games (RPGs) Discussion => Topic started by: RPGPundit on September 18, 2020, 04:36:15 am

Title: Perkins Fails His Save vs D&D SJWs
Post by: RPGPundit on September 18, 2020, 04:36:15 am
Chris Perkins learns the hard way that the D&D SJWs will destroy you no matter how much you submit to them.

Title: Re: Perkins Fails His Save vs D&D SJWs
Post by: JeffB on September 18, 2020, 07:58:48 am
"never done anything of note"


I could not agree more. He has, for 20+ years produced the most consistently crap adventure modules/books/magazines/materials I have encountered since 1977. I have no clue how he ended up being the most prolific adventure writer since WOTC bought TSR or what people see in him in this regard.
Title: Re: Perkins Fails His Save vs D&D SJWs
Post by: Steven Mitchell on September 18, 2020, 08:57:16 am
"never done anything of note"


I could not agree more. He has, for 20+ years produced the most consistently crap adventure modules/books/magazines/materials I have encountered since 1977. I have no clue how he ended up being the most prolific adventure writer since WOTC bought TSR or what people see in him in this regard.
The same thing they see in McDonald's hamburgers:  Perkins's output has always been only relative crap.  That is, it's never exactly good, but it never goes into "horrible, greasy diner with rats in the kitchen" territory, either.  If you work with it, you can use it as filler.  And it is consistently produced.  Hell, I ran a few of his Dungeon adventures.  After the first couple, they were very easy to adapt because I knew where the problems would be.  It's easy:  Scan the adventure, make a few notes, toss about half of it entirely, replace a few things that are bland with a better version, and then riff off the rest.  Treat it like a prototype instead of a finished product.  But that only works once you suffer through the exercise once or twice. 

With Perkins, there is just enough there to make you think it might get better over time or with a second look.

Of course the mob was going to turn on him.  There is nothing there to make a more firm association.
Title: Re: Perkins Fails His Save vs D&D SJWs
Post by: JeffB on September 18, 2020, 09:40:21 am
"never done anything of note"


I could not agree more. He has, for 20+ years produced the most consistently crap adventure modules/books/magazines/materials I have encountered since 1977. I have no clue how he ended up being the most prolific adventure writer since WOTC bought TSR or what people see in him in this regard.
.......  If you work with it, you can use it as filler.  And it is consistently produced.  Hell, I ran a few of his Dungeon adventures.  After the first couple, they were very easy to adapt because I knew where the problems would be.  It's easy:  Scan the adventure, make a few notes, toss about half of it entirely, replace a few things that are bland with a better version, and then riff off the rest.  Treat it like a prototype instead of a finished product.  But that only works once you suffer through the exercise once or twice. 

With Perkins, there is just enough there to make you think it might get better over time or with a second look.



That sounds like an awful lot of work to only use it as a framework. Think I'll just keep avoiding his products and pick things that I like  ;D
Title: Re: Perkins Fails His Save vs D&D SJWs
Post by: Melan on September 18, 2020, 10:13:02 am
I honestly had to look up what he wrote - he has always been one of the "background noise" neither-fish-nor-fowl people around D&D. Anyway, I don't think they have done too much damage to him so far. Mearls at least quit posting on Twitter, while Chris is just going on as usual. Good decision, too. If it doesn't stick, the mob will move on to a new target.
Title: Re: Perkins Fails His Save vs D&D SJWs
Post by: LiferGamer on September 18, 2020, 12:25:27 pm
Once again, play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
Every module has something you can steal, but if I'll I'm getting is and NPC or two and a map?  Well, I hope you didn't pay for those.
Title: Re: Perkins Fails His Save vs D&D SJWs
Post by: Steven Mitchell on September 18, 2020, 01:33:57 pm
Knowing what I know now, I wouldn't bother.  But there was just enough bits to work with in the early days that I thought I'd see how it went, on the grounds that it might get better later.

Also, I made the huge mistake of doing the 3-year Dungeon subscription for a big discount right before it went from "very hit or miss but worth it for the occasional hit" to "relentless decline".  That last year, I'd even stopped reading them hoping for a turn around.  Scanning a Perkins article and pulling the few useful bits out was salvaging some money spent--and since he was so predictable and I'd had the practice, it didn't really take me long to do it.
Title: Re: Perkins Fails His Save vs D&D SJWs
Post by: LiferGamer on September 18, 2020, 02:22:28 pm
I see subscriptions the same way I see vidya pre-orders - something to avoid until I deep-dive and get opinions of folks with similar tastes.
I got burned on Paizo's Adventure Path subscription - right as I got in, the EXCREMENT that was War for the Crown hit my mailbox.
Title: Re: Perkins Fails His Save vs D&D SJWs
Post by: shivaa95 on September 18, 2020, 03:51:58 pm
I agree with that and I won't NEVER go for a pre-order !
Title: Re: Perkins Fails His Save vs D&D SJWs
Post by: Omega on September 18, 2020, 03:53:52 pm
For me the Dungeon Magazine was overall pretty good. Sure not every adventure was of use. But most were at the very least ok written and some were pretty darn interesting and more than a few took interesting approaches to adventures and monsters. Got issue 48 out right now actually and that has several gems in it. Then theres issues with few gems. Thats really to be expected.
When did it start to decline?
Title: Re: Perkins Fails His Save vs D&D SJWs
Post by: Steven Mitchell on September 18, 2020, 04:56:11 pm
For me the Dungeon Magazine was overall pretty good. Sure not every adventure was of use. But most were at the very least ok written and some were pretty darn interesting and more than a few took interesting approaches to adventures and monsters. Got issue 48 out right now actually and that has several gems in it. Then theres issues with few gems. Thats really to be expected.
When did it start to decline?

In retrospect, issue #53 is where I mark the begin of steep decline.  I didn't notice it at time (at least not as a trend).  I had 2 or 3 one year subs starting around issues #32 (IIRC), but for those that don't remember, Dungeon was originally a bi-monthly.  Renewal time for my one-year started to come around, and they offered a deal too good to pass.  I thought the issues in the late 30's through the 40's were much as you describe.  So I grabbed.

I missed the very early issues.  After that, my good enough guideline for the trajectory of Dungeon is, "Every time the editor changed, it got worse."  That's not necessarily the editor's fault--underlying direction and systems supported take some of the blame, but as a quick and dirty view, I don't think I'm off that much. 
Title: Re: Perkins Fails His Save vs D&D SJWs
Post by: Thorn Drumheller on September 18, 2020, 04:57:47 pm
Pundit, loved this. You're very insightful. I'm so tired of WotC as a company. I'm just so glad the OSR community is there to not give a crap about being woke.
Title: Re: Perkins Fails His Save vs D&D SJWs
Post by: Shasarak on September 18, 2020, 05:44:48 pm
Chris is my favourite magical unicorn.
Title: Re: Perkins Fails His Save vs D&D SJWs
Post by: moonsweeper on September 18, 2020, 09:06:39 pm
"...especially if you are an actual gamer, and I suspect maybe Perkins is.  I can't be sure of course, there are certain reasons to argue against it.  I mean, first of all, he works for Wizards of the Coast, so there's a good chance he's not a real gamer."
Dammit Pundit, you owe me a new keyboard!  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Perkins Fails His Save vs D&D SJWs
Post by: Warpiglet on September 18, 2020, 09:11:24 pm
I hate it when people simply parrot and agree for conformity.


But once again the analysis by pundit is spot on.


It never ever ends until it’s torn down.  It’s like a Rorschach.  All of these events all of these statements...no matter what get twisted.


So Perkins wants to hear himself say save vs. death bitch?  Does that make sense?  I assumed he meant he got worked over and his partner was gloating.  You know, le petit mort? 


It’s all micro aggression delusion.  That it exists makes me shrug.   That it is starting to fuck with my hobby is a problem.  I will say I really enjoy this site and these commentaries because it’s a nice little reality check that keeps you from questioning your sanity.  They are so lock step on so many sites and forums that you almost forget that there are normal common sense utilizing gamers out there.


Bravo pundit.  Keep it up.  Your work is cool but this is a good contribution to gaming. 


With gratitude


Title: Re: Perkins Fails His Save vs D&D SJWs
Post by: Warpiglet on September 18, 2020, 09:28:40 pm
Chris Perkins learns the hard way that the D&D SJWs will destroy you no matter how much you submit to them.






Rhetorical questions perhaps.  But where does someone end up after regularly and recently producing “problematic” content?


So suddenly and totally your life work is problematic.  You see it now, that all your lore about orcs, until this year is racist but suddenly you’re enlightened, right when everyone else is, and your renounce it all.  What are the odds your conversion happened just now, right now, when the weather and winds are favorable?


So if they bust his chops over a statement to the sun with most uncharitable read ever are they now going to go through his catalog and excoriate him for it? 
Title: Re: Perkins Fails His Save vs D&D SJWs
Post by: Brad on September 19, 2020, 02:42:56 pm
Rhetorical questions perhaps.  But where does someone end up after regularly and recently producing “problematic” content?


So suddenly and totally your life work is problematic.  You see it now, that all your lore about orcs, until this year is racist but suddenly you’re enlightened, right when everyone else is, and your renounce it all.  What are the odds your conversion happened just now, right now, when the weather and winds are favorable?


So if they bust his chops over a statement to the sun with most uncharitable read ever are they now going to go through his catalog and excoriate him for it?

You're now an unperson ad we no longer talk about you, much less acknowledge your existence. At no time in the past were orcs ever treated as anything other than equals, and their genocide at the hands of filthy humans is a thinly disguised commentary about how white colonialism disenfranchised the morally superior native cultures.

You bigot.
Title: Re: Perkins Fails His Save vs D&D SJWs
Post by: Spinachcat on September 19, 2020, 04:29:14 pm
The Twitter mob isn't consistent. They'll flip from "you can enjoy problematic things" to ignoring the transgressions of their favorites to suddenly trying to burn down their lives and unperson them from their careers. It barely can be measured or anticipated which of their random results shall occur, or for how long that particular stance will exist.

But I do enjoy WotC being tormented by exactly to whom they pandered. That's definitely been worth many a chuckle.

Of course, what's not funny at all is the mob's power and how we MAY (emphasis on MAY) see the mob's will become the policy of DriveThruRPG and Amazon, thus destroying the main commercial avenues for deplorable wrongthinkers. 

Title: Re: Perkins Fails His Save vs D&D SJWs
Post by: RPGPundit on September 21, 2020, 02:00:47 am
"never done anything of note"


I could not agree more. He has, for 20+ years produced the most consistently crap adventure modules/books/magazines/materials I have encountered since 1977. I have no clue how he ended up being the most prolific adventure writer since WOTC bought TSR or what people see in him in this regard.


To succeed as a professional writer you can be mediocre, you can be expensive/difficult, or you can be unreliable with deadlines, but only one out of three. And WoTC doesn't hire full-time for Talent, so that's the only one they don't need. While freelance or indie writers could be talented/cheap/late, or talented/expensive/timely, or mediocre/cheap/timely, the WoTC salaried writers can only ever be the third.
Title: Re: Perkins Fails His Save vs D&D SJWs
Post by: RPGPundit on September 21, 2020, 02:02:33 am
Pundit, loved this. You're very insightful. I'm so tired of WotC as a company. I'm just so glad the OSR community is there to not give a crap about being woke.


Thanks!
Title: Re: Perkins Fails His Save vs D&D SJWs
Post by: Omega on September 21, 2020, 03:25:16 am
To succeed as a professional writer you can be mediocre, you can be expensive/difficult, or you can be unreliable with deadlines, but only one out of three. And WoTC doesn't hire full-time for Talent, so that's the only one they don't need. While freelance or indie writers could be talented/cheap/late, or talented/expensive/timely, or mediocre/cheap/timely, the WoTC salaried writers can only ever be the third.
Not quite.The other type that gets hired consistently are the workhorses. Those who can hit deadlines consistently. They may be good, or ok, but rarely bad. With some notable exceptions. Especially true in the art biz.

Also WOTC can and will hire talent. But miss a few deadlines and thats that sometimes unless your work sells well. But thats true even in the indie biz. Cant meet deadlines then your work options diminish.
The real problem with WOTC is as usual, marketing. Who seem hellbent on augering WOTC into the dirt.
Title: Re: Perkins Fails His Save vs D&D SJWs
Post by: Razor 007 on September 21, 2020, 10:17:26 pm
Once you start feeding the sharks; they continue showing up, expecting to be fed.
Title: Re: Perkins Fails His Save vs D&D SJWs
Post by: RandyB on September 21, 2020, 10:21:46 pm
Once you start feeding the sharks; they continue showing up, expecting to be fed.

"Once you have paid the Danegeld, you will never be rid of the Dane."
Title: Re: Perkins Fails His Save vs D&D SJWs
Post by: Razor 007 on September 22, 2020, 05:59:14 am
Perkins has been "the" frontman for WOTC's public campaigns, with all the games he has DM'd in front of the masses.  It's hard for people to like the D&D brand, if they don't like Perkins.  He's so closely associated with D&D, they are pretty much a package deal.


FWIW; I'd rather roll dice in his game, than Matt Mercer's.
Title: Re: Perkins Fails His Save vs D&D SJWs
Post by: cenmarik on September 23, 2020, 08:57:51 pm
Perkins has been "the" frontman for WOTC's public campaigns, with all the games he has DM'd in front of the masses.  It's hard for people to like the D&D brand, if they don't like Perkins.  He's so closely associated with D&D, they are pretty much a package deal.
Glad to be out of this loop. When hear the name Chris Perkins I think of the "AD&D3E" guy.
“No way! Why should I change? He’s the one who sucks!”