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I posted this on Big Purple as well.  I'd like thoughts and feedback, if anyone is interested.

So...
 
I've been running a long campaign in the Battletech universe. I've got 11 players, and the story has been pretty good. We're using the current A Time of War rules set - and it's not really pleasing to anyone. The book itself really doesn't "grab" folks with the background and atmosphere the way the old 1st Edition MechWarrior game did. Part of the problem is the current license holders, Catalyst, trying so hard to move forward into the 3100s and leave the original Battletech setting behind. A lot of us got into Battletech because it was Dune with Giant Robots - or, perhaps more modern-sounding, A Game of Thrones with Giant Robots.

Our campaign started with the players creating Houses Minor from the planet the campaign started on. Some of them grouped together to be members of the same House Minor, a couple were solo. We used a kitbashed version of the rules from the Song of Ice and Fire RPG, which we are currently looking at replacing with rules from Mongoose's Traveller : Dynasty book. Basically, our campaign embraces the original "MechWarriors and Knights" concept in a post-apocalyptic shattered empire more closely than any version of MechWarrior has since 1e. Even by the time of MechWarrior 2e in 1991, the 3050 timeframe had 'Mechs being more common, more readily manufactured, and armies started to get bigger and MechWarriors began being highly trained vehicle pilots as opposed to hereditary knights.
 
We *want* them to be hereditary knights.

The current lead GM of our campaign (we have six-month terms, this is the first term in which I haven't been lead GM in four years... Huzzah for me) and I are working on a vanity project that we'll never be able to publish but can damn sure use here for our next campaign. We're kitbashing together "OUR" version of MechWarrior, designed to embrace the feel of the original setting.
 
I have no idea how these concepts will mesh, but here's some of the things we want to include-
 
PENDRAGON
 •The focus on Knighthood. This is a game about playing MechWarriors just like Pendragon is about playing Knights. It will be unapologetic about that.
•Glory as opposed to XP - also very appropriate.
•Generating your immediate family, and the history of your parent and grandparent MechWarrior
•Passions and Loyalties
•Perhaps faction bonuses like the Religion Bonuses of Pendragon. Kurita favors pride, Davion favors Modesty, something like that.
•Skill advancement based on what gets used.
•One adventure equalling one time period - maybe a year, maybe more. A "Winter Phase" where the campaigning MechWarriors return to their holding to handle administration, age, have children etc.
•This allows MechWarriors to see their children become the new family MechWarriors.

 
MONGOOSE TRAVELLER
 •Lifepath Character Creation
•Mustering Out Benefits - all MechWarriors are more or less automatically noble, and therefore will use the rules from the Dilletente book.
•'Mech Ownership handled a bit like ship shares, with the ability to take an older, less functional 'Mech in order to get a bigger one.
•2D6+Mod vs 8 works GREAT for Battletech integration.
•The Dynasty book offers a complete system for faction generation, management and conflict.

 
MECHWARRIOR 1e
 •The Setting/Fluff
•The random event tables to determine what goes on in the world. This game will be independent from the published metaplot and will diverge into its own continuity.
•The concepts of MechWarrior households, with entourage/retinues, etc. Chief Tech, Planetologist, etc.

 
Other ideas:
 When generating your MechWarrior, you'll also generate the base stats of your personal 'Tech, your apprentice/squire (if any), your support troops (if any) etc.
 
Players will be noble MechWarriors, or members of a MechWarrior Household. Taking a page from Dune, characters like Duncan and Gurney would be possible, as long as they were likewise trained as MechWarriors. Dr. Yueh and Thufir would be NPCs.

The stories would be about these MechWarriors serving their lieges in the endless wars between the Great Houses (and sometimes Houses Minor) and will fully embrace the MechWarrior-as-Knight concept. In other words, most MechWarriors are land-holding figures who are responsible for providing military service to their immediate liege, who is likewise faithful to aid the MechWarrior in times of need. The MechWarrior family will rule their holding in the name of the superior noble, all the way up to the House Lord.
 
Thoughts?

This sounds awesome.

I think you hit the nail on the head.

I too, am disenchanted with how the Battletech universe has evolved. I prefer the 3025 era, with very limited Star League technology, and ignore the existence of the Clans entirely.

I prefer the old game, where mechwarriors are hereditary soldiers fighting over water on shithole worlds on the edge of space.

Yeah, I think you're on to something here.

I also think that whoever GMs this will have his hands full getting these three games to work with each other. But I applaud the effort. While not a big fan of the genre, I sometimes have the impression that mecha games, and milSF games in general, tend to be all about the giant robot blastin' and give the human factor little thought.

We tend to look at the BattleMechs as a combination of the steed, armor, sword and fundage a Knight needed to be a Knight.  They're the means by which the characters maintain their social status, not the end-all, be-all focus of the game.

I think that's a big difference between the way a lot of people play, and the way our group plays.

This sounds WAY more interesting to me than any other version of Mechwarrior I've seen.

RPGPundit

Well, this looks like a project we'll actually start putting materials together for over the next couple of weeks.  Character gen first, obviously.

Like Pendragon, it's going to have to be uber-focussed.  I hate to do it, but the initial booklet for our players may be focused on MechWarriors from a specific house, so that the history rolls for parent and grandparent might be tailored to specific events, like the Kentares Massacre, etc.

Also, the passions and traits will have to be altered for 2D6 resolution rather than D20 resolution.

Quote from: RPGPundit;594576This sounds WAY more interesting to me than any other version of Mechwarrior I've seen.

Ditto.

Quote from: colwebbsfmc;594256We tend to look at the BattleMechs as a combination of the steed, armor, sword and fundage a Knight needed to be a Knight.  They're the means by which the characters maintain their social status, not the end-all, be-all focus of the game.

I think that's a big difference between the way a lot of people play, and the way our group plays.

Not at all, not at all.

I would love to see this developed further and shared as you go (hint, hint!).

Here are some initial thoughts on character creation-

  First, the initial build of the game may end up being faction-specific.  For the sake of argument, we'll say House Davion because that's what I'm running right now.  I'm much more of a Lyran kinda of guy, but oh, well.

  The reason I say faction-specific is that by using some of the mechanics of Pendragon, we'll be needing to roll up the history for the parent and grandparent of each MechWarrior to see what Glory they amassed, how they lived and died, and wether the MW accrued any passions or traits from their ancestors.  For example, if we go with a Davion setting, perhaps one of the ancestors fought and died during the Kentares Massacre - the PC might inherit Hate (House Kurita) 3D6.  If the ancestors are loyal to the Hasek-Davion branch of the ruling family, their Love (House Davion) might not be quite as high as the default.  If Father or Mother died gloriously trying to protect Prince Ian Davion when he fell, there might be Glory and Hate to be had there, too.

  This presupposes we are going to scrap a standard XP system for the one used in Pendragon, which sounds good to me, BTW.  We will have something like the Winter Phase, but perhaps with a different time interval due to the vagaries of interstellar travel.  No matter what, lords are going to end up needing to let their knights return home at some interval to tend to their holdings and make babies etc.  Using this system will allow for aging and children to come into play, which will also very much enhance the Pendragon-style feel of the MechWarriors-as-Knights feel.

  After generating those histories, we will allow the players to choose a background social level.  Scion of nobility, MechWarrior (knight), or perhaps even MechWarrior Retainer.  I see the first as the child of a higher noble, the second as the default kind of knight one sees in Pendragon, and the third as someone like Duncan Idaho or Gurney Halleck serving something like House Atreides.  
(NOTE : Maybe I'm going about this all wrong, and like Pendragon, all PCs should be from the basic MechWarrior/Knight social class)

SCREECHING HALT.

  Waitamminute.

  Am I going about this wrong?  I kinda want to proceed from Character Gen with a Traveller-like lifepath system allowing the creation of older, more experienced knights from various social levels within knighthood/nobility.

  BUT - the more I look at Pendragon... the more I think about starting the group as basic knights...

  GRRRR.

Thoughts?

Either one is good, but you are combining them.  That means if you go the Traveller Lifepath route, as you extend the Lifepath, the character's history becomes larger and more needs to be filled in to a Pendragon level of detail.  If you let the Traveller Lifepath system do it's thing, you may very well end up with a rather mature knight PC who already has the next generation ready to take to the cockpit.

I'd probably stick with starting knights, or slightly older, to start with, that gives you less years to fill in, which means you can fill them with lots of detail.  Jumping in with both feet having one PC as an old established knight may be a bit much since you're mixing the whole thing yourself.

Quote from: colwebbsfmc;594734Am I going about this wrong?  I kinda want to proceed from Character Gen with a Traveller-like lifepath system allowing the creation of older, more experienced knights from various social levels within knighthood/nobility.

  BUT - the more I look at Pendragon... the more I think about starting the group as basic knights...

  GRRRR.

Thoughts?

Don't use the Lifepath system for generating PCs. Instead, use it for generating the Mechs. The Mech 'careers' are missions (bounty hunting, border patrol, raiding, invasion, ceremonial), with 'specialties' of Light/Medium/Heavy/Assault. You don't gain skills, you gain a reputation to live up to.

Quote from: Mytholder;594968Don't use the Lifepath system for generating PCs. Instead, use it for generating the Mechs. The Mech 'careers' are missions (bounty hunting, border patrol, raiding, invasion, ceremonial), with 'specialties' of Light/Medium/Heavy/Assault. You don't gain skills, you gain a reputation to live up to.

Awesome insight!  Perhaps also use it to generate some the character's illustrious forebearers who fought in that Mech.


-TGA

So...

  The Family Battlemech becomes something like Glamdring, Orcrist or Sting.  "This 'Mech belonged to my great-grandfather, who used it to hold off the 5th Amaris Dragoons so that General Kerensky's command element could take the Terran Capital without being flanked.  He died in that battle, but his 'Mech was salvaged and returned to service.  My grandmother requested it just before the Exodus, and christened it 'Bulwark' as it had shielded the Liberator of Terra from ambush.  Four generations of my family have died at the helm of Bulwark, each time defending innocents from those who would prey on them or opening the way for heroes like Kerensky to do what must be done.  Now that my elder brother has been entombed alongside our ancestors, it falls to me to pilot Bulwark into battle in the name of God and Prince Davion.  May it bear me to the honor and glory worthy of our House."

Quote from: colwebbsfmc;595050So...

  The Family Battlemech becomes something like Glamdring, Orcrist or Sting.  "This 'Mech belonged to my great-grandfather, who used it to hold off the 5th Amaris Dragoons so that General Kerensky's command element could take the Terran Capital without being flanked.  He died in that battle, but his 'Mech was salvaged and returned to service.  My grandmother requested it just before the Exodus, and christened it 'Bulwark' as it had shielded the Liberator of Terra from ambush.  Four generations of my family have died at the helm of Bulwark, each time defending innocents from those who would prey on them or opening the way for heroes like Kerensky to do what must be done.  Now that my elder brother has been entombed alongside our ancestors, it falls to me to pilot Bulwark into battle in the name of God and Prince Davion.  May it bear me to the honor and glory worthy of our House."

Damn skippy.

I am the other half of Col's development team for this for funsies project. I have been pushing to integrate Traveller into this because I am such a huge fan of fun lifepath systems, although their limitations in terms of service can be a bother. I think the idea of building mechs using lifepath is absolutely brilliant. That is the feel of these mechs... every single one has a story.

Bravo.

I like it.  It is a neat departure from the typical reading of BattleTech, but not out of line with the spirit of the original conception of the setting.

Also, a life path system for the Mech could include generating quirks and perks that would make each Mech unique.  Maybe that leg actuator damaged in battle 20 years ago still acts up, or your grandfather scored a boss Garett D2j targeting computer off a fallen opponent that normally isn't found in your class of Mech.


-TGA

I really really wish that this could actually be published in book form. Sounds like an amazing way to play Battletech. Also, I prefer the early BT stuff, as well.

Yeah, Danbuter, so do we.  

  Today we were talking gaming to the Steve Jackson Games folks at Austin Comic Con and we told them that we'd adapted the Song of Ice and Fire RPG rules for houses to Battletech and are currently using that as our House Fortunes system until we can get something a bit closer to the time period, and they thought that was so cool they texted about it to the guys at Green Ronin.  Heh.

  If our team can come up with a compelling BTU-with-the-serial-numbers-filed-off, we can publish - ish.  There's the whole "rules can't be copywritten, but presentation and IP can" thing to wade through.  Traveller is OGL, Greg Stafford's Pendragon site says he's looking for pitches for alternate uses for the Pendragon system...

  We will see what the project evolves into.

Shut up and take my money!

Quote from: The Good Assyrian;595054I like it.  It is a neat departure from the typical reading of BattleTech, but not out of line with the spirit of the original conception of the setting.

Also, a life path system for the Mech could include generating quirks and perks that would make each Mech unique.  Maybe that leg actuator damaged in battle 20 years ago still acts up, or your grandfather scored a boss Garett D2j targeting computer off a fallen opponent that normally isn't found in your class of Mech.


-TGA

A fantastic idea.

RPGPundit

So...

  Bobjob and I are moving forward with this with some input from TGA, as we all live in the area.  I've got three weeks of college left before I take some time off and can really crunch hard on the project, but we will be at least putting this together to use here at home.

  Thus far, we're using MW1e, Pendragon and Traveller concepts wedded into one solid MW game.  It's in the preliminary notes stages now, but we'll keep plugging away and see what we can come up with.

Please keep us updated!

RPGPundit

OK, folks - here's my first serious effort at marrying Pendragon sensibilities and the MechWarrior universe.  What do you all think?

THE MECHWARRIOR NOBILITY
  With the collapse of the Star League, each MechWarrior became more than a simple military pilots.  The fact of possession of a BattleMech left those who were beholden to House Lords or refused to follow General Kerensky into the Exodus with a frightening power to defend – or destroy.  In the intervening centuries, MechWarriors have become the new martial nobles filling the role – and in many places the title – of the knights of Humanity's distant past.

RISE OF THE MECHWARRIOR KNIGHTHOOD
  When BattleMechs became the pinnacle of military technology, the pilots of those incredible machines were an new breed of highly-trained soldier- but no more.  While the same mystique that in bygone eras had set cavaliers and aviators apart certainly elevated MechWarriors to the status of military elite they were still at the end of the day men and women sworn to the standing armies of the Star League or the Successor Lords.  As the Star League crumbled and the holocaust of the First Succession War raged across the Human Sphere the standing armies as they existed before the first atomics fell ceased to exist.  In the desolate aftermath that befell the majority of worlds the survivors of the shattered militaries found themselves isolated, without a clear chain of command or compelling reason to go on fighting.  Many chose to go home.  Some, either unable or unwilling to return home used their military assets to carve or conquer a new home with the assistance of their surviving comrades.
  Former combat formations became the new rulers and defenders of micro-nations and city states across the devastated worlds of the Human Sphere.  Power shifts, suble and gross, rippled across the Sphere as communications and commerce slowly began to stabilize.  The surviving Great House Lords make good use of the core worlds that managed to survive the First Succession War with less catastrophic damage, consolidating their power and rebuilding their shattered regiments for the conquest of their equally-beleaguered neighbors and wayward former holdings.  During this time, the House Lords were as desperate for war materiel as the petty warlords that began to emerge all across the Sphere.  Having a BattleMech to pledge into service became a valuable asset, one that could be bartered for wealth, title, land and more.  Small groups of MechWarriors could band together into companies that may or may not be the equivalent of a pre-war BattleMech company and parlay their strength into titles and lands on the more prestigious worlds less ravaged by the wars.  Ambitious nobles able to secure the loyalty of many MechWarriors could stake claim to entire continents, or worlds.  Before the end of the Second Succession War, the MechWarrior Nobility existed in fact across the many worlds settled by Man.

BECOMING A MECHWARRIOR
  BattleMechs are rare and nearly irreplaceable artifacts of the Golden Age of the Star League.  The last known major manufacturing facilities fell long ago, leaving only a trickle of parts and components from factories whose inner workings are no longer entirely understood.  Caches of deep-storage depots dating from before the fall of the League are still extant on many worlds, waiting to be found and plundered.  Occasionally, a technician will be able to cobble together a "new" 'Mech from old stock parts, or to create a single 'Mech from the remains of fallen machines.  For every new or restored BattleMech that lumbers onto the battlefields of the thirty-first century, many more fall- in some cases consigning the families of the pilot to the ranks of the Dispossessed.  How then does one become a MechWarrior?
  At present, the most common path to the mantle of MechWarrior is to be born to it.  The BattleMechs that served the Star League and the Great Houses centuries ago are the same BattleMechs that stand in the attack or defense of the worlds of the Human Sphere today.  These ancient war machines are incredibly resilient, maintained by the orders of technicians whose own social status is linked to that of the MechWarrior Houses they serve.  A MechWarrior family owns one or more of the ancient machines, with more than one required for any true sense of security as the loss of a family's only 'Mech spells the end of that family's usefulness to the noble whom that family serves.
  Children in MechWarrior families are typically made 'Mech Apprentices at the age of 15, spending years assisting the family's technicians in the upkeep of the BattleMechs, learning how to piliot and fight the family's 'Mech, and learning the skills of rulership and courtliness from the family's instructors.  Some of these Apprentices will assume the mantle of MechWarrior upon turning 21, while some must wait until the current pilot of the BattleMech for which they are destined dies or retires.  Some remain Apprentices their entire lives, while others find themselves assigned by the family as administrators, instructors and technicians.
  Those MechWarrior families fortunate enough to have multiple BattleMechs at times use the assignment of one or more of their family 'Mechs as a reward for loyal retainers who are not themselves MechWarriors.  It is not unheard of for members of the household cavalry or a lord's inner circle to be elevated to MechWarrior status in recognition of long service.  Likewise families rich in BattleMech assets have at times rewarded technicians of high skill and long service with the opportunity to pilot one of the family 'Mechs, usually in a low-risk assignment such as home defense, or even the opportunity to build themselves a machine from plunder and salvage.
  For those not born to a family already in possession of a BattleMech or in the service of such a family, there are few opportunities for advancement, none of them certain or without danger.  By tradition, and infantryman or cavalryman who manages to bring down a BattleMech is entitled to take possession of that Battlemech and become its master.  This road to becoming a MechWarrior is fraught with peril.  First, to destroy a BattleMech with a mere armored vehicle or man-portable support weapons is a feat requiring luck, skill and valor bordering on desperation.  Next, the newly enfranchised MechWarrior must make the necessary repairs to put the BattleMech back into operation.  It is quite rare that a common soldier from the infantry or the backbone soldiers of Household Cavalry units have the means to make these repairs.  The new MechWarrior must then sell the 'Mech for salvage and settle for continuing life as a commoner – albeit a wealthy one – or strike a deal with someone who has the means to repair the BattleMech.  This option leads to the type of attached strings and owed favors that can make the already daunting task of a commoner to navigate the political mire of MechWarrior society that much more difficult.
  A final path from commoner to MechWarrior is to capture the attention of a noble with more 'Mechs than MechWarriors (a rare situation, indeed!) The House Lords, possessed of much larger BattleMech resources than more peripheral nobles, still maintain rather large household forces.  Membership in one of these units, if one can prove one's skill, is a sure path to MechWarrior status, but such status is not guaranteed to one's offspring- who receive automatic training, but can wash out resulting in the family's status being reduced to the "regular" forces.  Many Archdukes, Dukes and Counts hold such lofty title due to their ability to raise large household units either in their own name, or that of their House Lord.  The majority of the MechWarriors in that sort of unit would be MechWarriors of this type.

RANKS OF MECHWARRIOR KNIGHTHOOD



MECHWARRIOR MERCENARY
  The least prestigious class of MechWarrior are the MechWarrior mercenaries.  These MechWarriors serve no lord by oath or fealty- instead they serve the lord that can pay their keep and possibly make some of that payment in the precious parts and resources that keep their all-important BattleMechs in operation.  MechWarrior mercenaries are much more likely to practice skills that are non-knightly in nature, more likely to spend more time travelling and often call a transport vessel home if they claim any home at all.  Though they tend toward baser conduct than the more socially prestigious types of MechWarrior, even MechWarrior mercenaries abide by the accepted rules of combat- to violate the traditional social contract would be to place at risk the very social order that makes their livelihood possible.


MECHWARRIOR BACHELOR
  Bas Chevalier was the French term for a knight of low standing, and the modern usage to refer to unmarried men had its roots in the inability of a poor knight to support a wife and family.  Like the poor knights of ages past, the MechWarrior Bachelor has no lands or holdings in their own right.  The Bachelor MechWarrior is a member of their lord's household, following a vassal, banneret, or MechWarrior lord and living in their holdings.  These MechWarriors typically serve in the household guard of MechWarriors of higher standing, and by virtue of their station will spend most of their time in military pursuits.  Most MechWarrior bachelor families have but one BattleMech, quite rarely two or more as a number of BattleMechs would be cause for the family to be considered for elevation to vassal status.  Some bachelor MechWarriors are technically dispossessed, piloting BattleMechs that belong to their lords.  These MechWarriors are secure in their social status as long as they have the favor of their lords, who may withhold the right to pilot a family BattleMech.

MECHWARRIOR VASSAL
  A MechWarrior Vassal family has proven loyalty and stability to their lord, and possesses more than one BattleMech within the family.  This rank of MechWarrior knighthood does own land, and may contain multiple family members who are also MechWarriors as well as household MechWarriors who are retainers but not related by blood.  Vassal MechWarriors will be called upon to serve in the military forces of their lord, and to garrison the lord's holdings.  When called upon, the MechWarrior Vassal is expected to provide a single BattleMech or a brace of two BattleMechs for military service.

MECHWARRIOR BANNERET
  The Banneret MechWarrior is the lowest of the MechWarrior ranks to hold other landed MechWarriors as vassals.  While not of a Peerage rank, such as Baron or Count, Banneret MechWarriors have larger landholds that include the holdings of their subordinate MechWarriors.  When called upon by their lord, a MechWarrior Banneret must provide a lance of BattleMechs to the lord's service.

MECHWARRIOR LORD
  Those MechWarriors with enough guile, power or charisma to bend other MechWarriors to their banner or earn the trust of a House Lord or powerful noble could become part of the MechWarrior lord class.  These MechWarriors hold peerage titles- Baron and above- and boast impressive land holdings and household militaries.  These MechWarriors are often given martial titles such as "captain" when asked to provide a company or more to the banner of their lord on campaign.  MechWarrior lords are powerful, and increase in power and wealth until reaching the current pinnacle of nobility – Lordship of one of the five Great Houses.

I'm rather entertained and amused by this thread and the ideas herein, I think its an awesome idea.

Now if only you were given MW  RPG's reigns.

I am SO going to use this. I loved Battletech from day one, but my group hasn't played it in ages (either boardgame or RPG-style) - think that's about to change.

Note that I highly recommend, from personal experience, that The IS 3025 not be static. The Power of the Ruling families resides with the few Mech Factories they own. That is, they control the influx of new Mechs. Usually most of the production goes to replacing losses for Noble families according to their standing. Note that it is a constant power struggle between central power and feudal lords. The peerage expects to get Mech replacements, as a right of birth not as a gesture of good will or incentive for loyalty, but some of that still is there.
Some House Lords though have some Mechs to spare, and started to create a commoner army.
Most importantly that comes up with House Davion under Hanse's rule.
The Steiner nobles had the most devious way of getting rid of the danger of too strong centralized rule: Make the Archon-army ineffective by co-opting their leadership-> Social-Generals!

So while the Ruling Houses can create new nobles, often they will think they have now the same birthright as the old ones and side with them vs the central power. This is taken to the highest forms in the Draconis Combine, whereas the Federated suns have the biggest group of professional Mechwarriors that do not form a caste. RCTs are a big part of that, as are cheapo-Mechs armed with autocannons...a noble would not want ot be caught dead in a Jägermech! It is the symbol of Hanse's ambitions as well as the commoner stink of illoyality to the caste of MechWarriors! So in the Fed Suns one could play it a bit like North & South, only the Southern gentlemen are New Avalon Catholic instead of Baptists. Also note the BIG disparity in the Fedsuns "city/east coast" planets and the landed nobles' backwaters...spurs included!

Quote from: Silverlion;600243I'm rather entertained and amused by this thread and the ideas herein, I think its an awesome idea.

Now if only you were given MW  RPG's reigns.

Fom your lips to God's ears, my friend.

I've often wondered how big of a lottery win I'd have to score to buy the rights to Battletech, and buy out Harmony Gold...

Settembrini

 Good points, all.

 In the perfect world where we plot out a Battletechy amalgam of "The Great Pendragon Campaign" these issues would certainly be explored as part of the multi-year narrative.  House Davion's "Training Battalions" were a concept Hanse came up with.  To keep drawing on the Pendragon analogy, the campaign would begin with Prince Ian and the war against the Combine, giving the players an opportunity to face the Draconis Combine in a war that would ideally span enough time to have an impact on the players and develop their loyaly to Prince Ian  then BLAM, Prince Ian is slain and young Hanse must take the throne...  After a few years of settling in, young Hanse starts playing with changing the status quo, and it becomes a question of loyalties...  I would change up the canon history here so the MechWarrior Brotherhood crisis could come to a head over Davion's commoner MechWarrior battalions causing a not-quite Civil War and a huge test of loyalties...

Awesome ... and just keeps getting better.

The concept would led itself well to a card game (like Legend of the Five Rings) and by being a different format, may be easier to publish. Following with a RPG that could use the cards as seeds.
=

Quote from: colwebbsfmc;600269Settembrini

 Good points, all.

 In the perfect world where we plot out a Battletechy amalgam of "The Great Pendragon Campaign" these issues would certainly be explored as part of the multi-year narrative.  House Davion's "Training Battalions" were a concept Hanse came up with.  To keep drawing on the Pendragon analogy, the campaign would begin with Prince Ian and the war against the Combine, giving the players an opportunity to face the Draconis Combine in a war that would ideally span enough time to have an impact on the players and develop their loyaly to Prince Ian  then BLAM, Prince Ian is slain and young Hanse must take the throne...  After a few years of settling in, young Hanse starts playing with changing the status quo, and it becomes a question of loyalties...  I would change up the canon history here so the MechWarrior Brotherhood crisis could come to a head over Davion's commoner MechWarrior battalions causing a not-quite Civil War and a huge test of loyalties...

In my own campaign, the commoner Mechwarrior vs Landed nobles conflict was the root of the whole "treason" stuff in the ...what was it? Sarna March?
So while the treasonous individual (Hasek-Davion IIRC) might have had this, that or other reasons, the reason of him actually finding supporters was because of the abovmentioned conflict. The landed nobility knew their time was up or at least their power base challenged. Also note the miniscule gains vs. the Dracs in centuries of outproducing them...

Quote from: Settembrini;600872In my own campaign, the commoner Mechwarrior vs Landed nobles conflict was the root of the whole "treason" stuff in the ...what was it? Sarna March?
So while the treasonous individual (Hasek-Davion IIRC) might have had this, that or other reasons, the reason of him actually finding supporters was because of the abovmentioned conflict. The landed nobility knew their time was up or at least their power base challenged. Also note the miniscule gains vs. the Dracs in centuries of outproducing them...

That is a really good take on the social and political conflict within the setting, Sett!  Hasek-Davion was painted as a real threat to Hanse's rule and there has to be some reason why powerful people would support him against the Most Awesomest First Prince Evar.  I mean, a lot of the elements of canon surrounding Hanse Davion were designed to appeal to 20th Century American white middle-class teens and young men, so you get a lot of social equality vibe that would really rile an aristocracy up.  

Stackpole's depiction of Hanse and House Davion set the tone that made it the most popular House amongst players (it was presented in a light that would appeal to the game's target audience), so your insight helps to explain exactly why Hanse might not be universally loved in the actual setting.  It also makes the Federated Suns more interesting and nuanced to boot.

-TGA

Quote from: The Good Assyrian;600946Stackpole's depiction of Hanse and House Davion set the tone that made it the most popular House amongst players (it was presented in a light that would appeal to the game's target audience), so your insight helps to explain exactly why Hanse might not be universally loved in the actual setting.  It also makes the Federated Suns more interesting and nuanced to boot.
-TGA

Thanks for the praise! Especially coming from you.
Thing is, I read the House Books.
Stackpole might have skimmed them.
The 3025er setting as produced by FASA is much more subtle than the novels ever suggest. In fact, the relations from novels to sourcebook universe is like WWII:John Wayne movies.
In fact I only read the novels six years ago the first time up to the Clans-Trilogy to understand the Battletech fandom as it is so different from my view of the Universe, although all the elements are there in both. But twisted and reduced to weird allusions in one.

Remember me looking for Boy F. Petersen? Alongside Patrick Larking, a bona fide historian, he was the main driver for the House Books.

Quote from: Settembrini;600951Remember me looking for Boy F. Petersen? Alongside Patrick Larking, a bona fide historian, he was the main driver for the House Books.

He also wrote two of the best Shadowrun 1e books, Seattle Sourcebook and Sprawl Sites.

Quote from: Settembrini;600951Thanks for the praise! Especially coming from you.
Thing is, I read the House Books.
Stackpole might have skimmed them.
The 3025er setting as produced by FASA is much more subtle than the novels ever suggest. In fact, the relations from novels to sourcebook universe is like WWII:John Wayne movies.
In fact I only read the novels six years ago the first time up to the Clans-Trilogy to understand the Battletech fandom as it is so different from my view of the Universe, although all the elements are there in both. But twisted and reduced to weird allusions in one.

Remember me looking for Boy F. Petersen? Alongside Patrick Larking, a bona fide historian, he was the main driver for the House Books.

I suspect that our ideas of what made the original BattleTech setting interesting are very similar, Sett.  And we share that the direction that the game later took leaving us cold.  Fellow travellers left behind in the BattleTech fandom, so to speak.  I only read the first of Stackpole's books, and years after being introduced to the game and I share your assessment.  I actually think that the Gray Death series of novels by Bill Keith, although not perfect by any means, better reflected BattleTech as I saw it through the guiding stars of the original House books.

That is one of the reasons I like this idea.  I think that like-minded fans can and should reclaim that original setting for all of its coolness.  It certainly doesn't require a new game available commercially, in fact all it requires in the end is game masters and players sharing the vision.  But I will admit that I think that it would be neat to have a supported game that was based on the core ideas of 3025.

But since it s abundantly clear that Catalyst has no interest in 3025 BattleTech or the original vision of the game, any commercially-viable alternative would necessarily be removed from the BattleTech setting.  Would it retain enough flavor to appeal to 3025 players?  I don't know, but I would buy it.


-TGA

Great thread! I never got to actually play the Mechwarrior side of the franchise, just random battles for the pure joy of giant robots blowing each other up. I'm loving this discussion of the deeper nuances and possibilities of the setting though, keep it up :)

My Interpretation of the whole Marik-Civil-Wars complex is the following:

The setup of the Free Worlds League has a much weaker central power, and a much stronger regional power base. that is not only are there feudalistic centrifugal forces at play, but also nationalistic and statehood questions. Most importantly: mech factories in the control of reguional sub-governments. So that is a given. But the big, big thing that destabilized the Marik's power was the decision to redistribute holdings and disenfranchise the losing party of the civil war(s)! If you look at the Holy Roman empire, you will see that in medieval times feudal feuds, even bitter and big ones as with Henry the Lion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_the_Lion)
rarely saw disenfranchisments. Rather reconciliation based on christian-chivlaric ideas was the order of the day. You rebelled but now you submit tear-swollen and exchange the kiss of friendship with the emperor, your  recent enemy? Lose a castle here or a county there and then all is forgiven.
But once the Emperor when victorious, started to disenfranchise and redistribute, as via Wallenstein...whole Dukedoms! 30 Years it took and some say never stopped till 1945...