So I have been interested in Golarion as of late. However I noticed that the cool campaign setting for the Inner Sea Region is no longer available. Then I remember how the 1st edition of Pathfinder had inbred ogre rapists, Fantasy Romani Travellers, Slavery and a whole bunch of pulp fantasy ideas. Sadly Pathfinder has added in Atheist Paladins (who are actually agnostic paladins but let's forget that because REEEEEE Religion is bad. Even in fantasy worlds.) Anywhoosit, I hoped to find out more of what happened to your favorite parts of Golarion and therefore Pathfinder.

Quote from: arcanuum;1129049So I have been interested in Golarion as of late. However I noticed that the cool campaign setting for the Inner Sea Region is no longer available. Then I remember how the 1st edition of Pathfinder had inbred ogre rapists, Fantasy Romani Travellers, Slavery and a whole bunch of pulp fantasy ideas. Sadly Pathfinder has added in Atheist Paladins (who are actually agnostic paladins but let's forget that because REEEEEE Religion is bad. Even in fantasy worlds.) Anywhoosit, I hoped to find out more of what happened to your favorite parts of Golarion and therefore Pathfinder.

Wait what?

Agnostic or Atheist anything makes exactly zero sense in a fantasy world where gods are real and constantly interfere in the lives of mortals!

Agnostic or Atheist Paladins make the least sense of all!

Honestly, this idiots should just hire me to run their business, there's no fucking way I could do worst than whoever is running it right now!

I hear ya man. If the gods don't interfere all that often I don't mind there being agnostics. However that is really hard for PCs because they are more likely to see a gods power manifest.

Quote from: arcanuum;1129054I hear ya man. If the gods don't interfere all that often I don't mind there being agnostics. However that is really hard for PCs because they are more likely to see a gods power manifest.

Greetings!

Hmmm...Atheism enforced in the game just seems contrarian, delusional, and stupid. Everyone in the world is theistic. There is no scholarly enclave holding out for the virtues of atheism. It's just stupid. Any player of in my group insisting on such a philosophy would be very alone, as most everyone around such a character would deem them hopelessly stupid at best--and blasphemous and cursed at worst, in which case they would typically be exiled, or hunted down and executed for their blasphemy. Whatever their fate, it would be terrible, lonely, and grim. There would be zero philosophical or ideological support for such a character, and socially they would be an ostracized pariah.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I can see an atheist in a fantasy world. They'd just believe the 'gods' were really powerful beings, but not capital G gods.

Wasn't there a faction in Planescape that believed such?

Quote from: arcanuum;1129054I hear ya man. If the gods don't interfere all that often I don't mind there being agnostics. However that is really hard for PCs because they are more likely to see a gods power manifest.

Not even then, you'd need a world where the gods do not interfere at all. And like I said, the Paladin makes the least sense of all, you could sell me on a Wizard tho. The Wizard can justify it by thinking it's just magic and magic is an art and a science that can be understood and mastered.

You'd need to tailor your world very carefully tho, gods can't interact directly ever, it has to be always thru mortals.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1129056I can see an atheist in a fantasy world. They'd just believe the 'gods' were really powerful beings, but not capital G gods.

Wasn't there a faction in Planescape that believed such?

No, I just can't, faith is unnecessary in such a world, and atheism is just the lack of faith. Agnosticism is the lack of certainty on the existence of. So neither make sense IMHO.

You don't need faith because you can see the gods working, if the anti-theists can't stamp out religion in our world, and they can't convince the believer most of the time... In a world where the gods interact, with low tech, I just can't see it doesn't make sense, especially in the case of the paladin.

Quote from: SHARK;1129055Greetings!

Hmmm...Atheism enforced in the game just seems contrarian, delusional, and stupid. Everyone in the world is theistic. There is no scholarly enclave holding out for the virtues of atheism. It's just stupid. Any player of in my group insisting on such a philosophy would be very alone, as most everyone around such a character would deem them hopelessly stupid at best--and blasphemous and cursed at worst, in which case they would typically be exiled, or hunted down and executed for their blasphemy. Whatever their fate, it would be terrible, lonely, and grim. There would be zero philosophical or ideological support for such a character, and socially they would be an ostracized pariah.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Exactly, speaking as an atheist myself it makes exactly zero sense.

Mind you if the danger hairs wish to houserule any game and play it as they wish more power to them, but including this class in the rule book? Plain stupid.

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1129052Wait what?

Agnostic or Atheist anything makes exactly zero sense in a fantasy world where gods are real and constantly interfere in the lives of mortals!

Interesting question.  There are a few ways that you can spin it but essentially, to my point of view, it makes as much sense for an Agnostic or Atheist character in DnD as it does to be a Religious person in real life.

There was a Faction in Planescape who believed that all of the higher powers were essentially just very high powered Wizards and it made as much sense for someone to worship them as it did for someone to worship an 18th level Archmage.

OP you can still get the Inner Sea World guide from Paizo directly https://paizo.com/products/btpy8ief . Unless you mean the Pre-pathfinder 3E version then you’d probably shit out of luck. So it's not out of print. As for the SJW elements and atheism they put into the game I simply ignore. Just like how I plan to ignore that slavery no longer exists and all the fantasy races suddenly get along. They turned their setting from Neopolitan ice cream into boring Vanilla. I enjoy both flavours yet prefer the first more.

I'm not sure what kind of jobs some of you work at yet unless one owns their own business like Pundit good luck. Any fantasy one has of strutting into an rpg company and simply writing what they want is just that. Unless one hired you to just write what ones wants. Your shutting your Danny mouth.  Putting your head down and doing as your told. Of your shown the door.

Quote from: Shasarak;1129063Interesting question.  There are a few ways that you can spin it but essentially, to my point of view, it makes as much sense for an Agnostic or Atheist character in DnD as it does to be a Religious person in real life.

There was a Faction in Planescape who believed that all of the higher powers were essentially just very high powered Wizards and it made as much sense for someone to worship them as it did for someone to worship an 18th level Archmage.

Call them wizards, call them aliens from mork, you can't be an atheist in regards to them, because you know they exist, no faith required, the same makes being an agnostic (don't know if it exists) make zero sense.

The theist believes, the Gnostic knows
the atheist doesn't believe, the agnostic doesn't know.

But you don't need to believe in DnD or similar, you know they exist, you can see them, touch them, talk to them, etc.

No faith required, atheism/theism is a divide on faith while Gnosticism/Agnosticism is a knowledge divide. You don't need faith in such a universe and you do know they exist. Makes zero sense.

Woah, thanks Sureshot. My google fu sucks sometimes. But yeah I see your point. Still the mass appeal while good for the bottom line, still pisses me off about games nowadays.

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1129059Exactly, speaking as an atheist myself it makes exactly zero sense.

Mind you if the danger hairs wish to houserule any game and play it as they wish more power to them, but including this class in the rule book? Plain stupid.

Greetings!

Hey my friend! Yeah, damned straight! An *Atheist Paladin* *Laughing* They just get stupider and stupider, you know? It's like, what the fuck is wrong with these people? Now a Paladin can be any race, and any alignment, and now they can be atheist, too?

*Laughing*

I'm sorry, I like the ancient archetype. Paladins are zealous, strict, disciplined holy champions, devoted to a god, or goddess, that is Good, and Righteous.

Paladins are not atheists, or demon worshippers, or mushy, liberal hippies. All the circle-jerking hippies can play a FIGHTER. That's what they get, you know? Other religions and alignments can have various flavoured holy warriors, but they aren't Paladins. I believe in exercising the power of NO. *Laughing*

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: sureshot;1129064OP you can still get the Inner Sea World guide from Paizo directly https://paizo.com/products/btpy8ief . Unless you mean the Pre-pathfinder 3E version then you'd probably shit out of luck. So it's not out of print. As for the SJW elements and atheism they put into the game I simply ignore. Just like how I plan to ignore that slavery no longer exists and all the fantasy races suddenly get along. They turned their setting from Neopolitan ice cream into boring Vanilla. I enjoy both flavours yet prefer the first more.

I'm not sure what kind of jobs some of you work at yet unless one owns their own business like Pundit good luck. Any fantasy one has of strutting into an rpg company and simply writing what they want is just that. Unless one hired you to just write what ones wants. Your shutting your Danny mouth.  Putting your head down and doing as your told. Of your shown the door.

I am very aware that getting hired by a company means doing what the company wants, in regards to RPGs it means writing/drawing what they want. Doesn't make it any less stupid to include this in such a setting.

As for slavery and everybody just getting along and singing cumbaya... Where does the conflict come from then? What do the PCs do? hold TEDx talks about how to feed your hundred cats with vegan food?

Quote from: SHARK;1129069Greetings!

Hey my friend! Yeah, damned straight! An *Atheist Paladin* *Laughing* They just get stupider and stupider, you know? It's like, what the fuck is wrong with these people? Now a Paladin can be any race, and any alignment, and now they can be atheist, too?

*Laughing*

I'm sorry, I like the ancient archetype. Paladins are zealous, strict, disciplined holy champions, devoted to a god, or goddess, that is Good, and Righteous.

Paladins are not atheists, or demon worshippers, or mushy, liberal hippies. All the circle-jerking hippies can play a FIGHTER. That's what they get, you know? Other religions and alignments can have various flavoured holy warriors, but they aren't Paladins. I believe in exercising the power of NO. *Laughing*

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Make an Anti-Paladin class (isn't that what the Warlock is?) if you want an evil paladin.

Sorry but it just makes no sense, and anyone coming to my table wanting to play such a class would get told NO.