What the title says...anyone have any predictions as to when there might be a new edition of Pathfinder? Thoughts as to what this might look like?
It is years off. They are raking in the cash now.
I think they will continue to pile more class abilities onto each level while simplifying more of the combat system. PF2 won't be too different though. That's my guess.
More like the third edition - after all, they did sell their beta rules to a lot of people. That was pretty smart of them, and I'd bet on a similar move a few years from now. Maybe around 2013? Relatively small, or at least seemingly small product changes, but at a faster pace than the D&D edition cycle.
It will suck. Jason Bulmahn is a talentless, mule-stubborn idiot who thinks mathematical analysis of the rules is pointless.
Quote from: B.T.;498649It will suck. Jason Bulmahn is a talentless, mule-stubborn idiot who thinks mathematical analysis of the rules is pointless.
(http://cdn.pimpmyspace.org/media/pms/c/bo/od/d8/ure-i.jpg)
I heard they thought about hiring a new person. So therefore Pathfinder 2e will be out in February 2012.
The current game is in its fifth printing, so I imagine they will continue to tweak and errata/correct the printing as it goes. There is no reason to print a 2nd edition for the sake of it.
I'd think it will be sometime in 2013 or 2014, whenever sales start to slump badly for the current ruleset. Sometime around them, they will probably have supplements for every single inch of Golarion, and be working on things like "Popular desserts in Sargava and their import costs to Taldor".
As far as what it will look like, I don't expect any drastic changes. Hopefully, they will simplify things and end up looking a bit more like Castles & Crusades as far as rules density.
Quote from: Rincewind1;498653(http://cdn.pimpmyspace.org/media/pms/c/bo/od/d8/ure-i.jpg)
Very serious.
Quote from: JDCorley;498654I heard they thought about hiring a new person. So therefore Pathfinder 2e will be out in February 2012.
Take your buttmad elsewhere.
Quote from: danbuter;498669I'd think it will be sometime in 2013 or 2014, whenever sales start to slump badly for the current ruleset. Sometime around them, they will probably have supplements for every single inch of Golarion, and be working on things like "Popular desserts in Sargava and their import costs to Taldor".
As far as what it will look like, I don't expect any drastic changes. Hopefully, they will simplify things and end up looking a bit more like Castles & Crusades as far as rules density.
Conversely, I'm hoping for something more like Kirthfinder, though perhaps with a more sane balancing mechanism for magic items than character wealth. That was a 3e mistake that doesn't ever need to be replicated again.
who mad?
not me
u mad?
Quote from: danbuter;498669I'd think it will be sometime in 2013 or 2014, whenever sales start to slump badly for the current ruleset. Sometime around them, they will probably have supplements for every single inch of Golarion, and be working on things like "Popular desserts in Sargava and their import costs to Taldor".
As far as what it will look like, I don't expect any drastic changes. Hopefully, they will simplify things and end up looking a bit more like Castles & Crusades as far as rules density.
I suppose I'd go with something like this as well - though it depends on how much of their sales are splatbooks and how much is adventure paths and minis and the like? Simplification would be good.
Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;498714I suppose I'd go with something like this as well - though it depends on how much of their sales are splatbooks and how much is adventure paths and minis and the like? Simplification would be good.
I hope for a first chapter of core rules (sort of the Intro Box but without the stash of maps, cardboard heroes and dice) followed by a streamlined but still crunchy 3E based rule-set. And throw in about 50% more races/classes/prestige classes than 1st ed.
And, please, beta-test for real this time: PF's crafting rules are still broken - mostly because they copied "ad verbatim" OGL's broken rules.
I suspect they are planning a Pathfinder Revised edition, something like 3.5 from 3.0, in a couple of years. When it arrives, I imagine it could easily be a reaction to 5e, but more marketingwise than ruleswise.
They won't do too many large-scale, system-wide changes. Just enough clean-up and tweaks to ensure the fans buy more copies of books they already own.
Considering that Paizo was successful (yes?) selling D&D add-ons...
And Pathfinder was conceived as a way of supporting and preserving that business, not as an end in itself...
I'd expect that there wouldn't be much impetus to come out with a new edition, unless there's a strong demand from the fans already--as opposed to the crazy planned-obsolescence model that seems to be the common wisdom. Most likely any significant modifications would bubble up from published variants, articles, and forum discussions and have demonstrable, widespread support.
Frankly I think that deliberately forcing people to "upgrade" isn't just disrespectful of your customers, it's also a losing proposition when there are attractive "sidegrades" with considerable marketing strength behind them including D&D (whatever edition it is at the time), and the evergreen ability of new market entrants to fork the rules using the OGL.
Quote from: JDCorley;498654I heard they thought about hiring a new person. So therefore Pathfinder 2e will be out in February 2012.
Total BULLSHIT...
QuoteWhat the title says...anyone have any predictions as to when there might be a new edition of Pathfinder? Thoughts as to what this might look like?
Not happening anytime soon....
Quote from: Ancientgamer1970;498811Total BULLSHIT...
You don't say!
I don't really see any reason for Pathfinder to change in the short run, so a new edition should be a while off. At my local game store, folks are still buying rulebooks and modules and stuff like that at a pretty decent pace. Why should they mess with a good thing?
Hmmm maybe if there is a second edition the prices on the first edition will drop and I'll actually snag some hard copies.
Why even bother with a second edition? If it ain't broke, don't fix it. And if it is broke, just fix it with errata and put in in the next printing. Just keep pumping out the same book with the same cover for years (or decades) with small differences along the way. If somebody doesn't want to pay for a new physical copy with the errata, they can print off a copy of the errata or buy/update their PDF file.
QuoteWhy even bother with a second edition?
Money.
Let's remember those people run a business. Plus, there's no perfect RPG. Of course, you can fix that what's not broken in a bad way, that's another discussion though.
Quote from: Rincewind1;498991Money.
Let's remember those people run a business. Plus, there's no perfect RPG. Of course, you can fix that what's not broken in a bad way, that's another discussion though.
They do run a business, but some books (and games) are printed for years without major changes. I know the Monopoly example has been used countless times. Many people read (don't play) RPGs and many books are never changed as well. Just reprinted with different covers when movies are made, etc.
I don't see why Paizo would have to follow the TSR/WotC method of pumping out new editions every three-five years.
Indeed, but when you want a true jump in the sales, do you reprint, or do you make a sequel to a successful book/movie/album?
Quote from: Rincewind1;498997Indeed, but when you want a true jump in the sales, do you reprint, or do you make a sequel to a successful book/movie/album?
It depends if the jump in sales is worth the fans who jump off the ship after they find out what happened to their favorite game. Did 3.5 or 4E make more customers for Wizards than it lost?
I'm not particularly against new editions, mind you. I have more of a problem with wholesale changes just for the sake of change.
Quote from: Endless Flight;499000It depends if the jump in sales is worth the fans who jump off the ship after they find out what happened to their favorite game. Did 3.5 or 4E make more customers for Wizards than it lost?
But 4E sold much better then another reprint of 3E would sell, or just another supplement for it.
Quote from: Rincewind1;499004But 4E sold much better then another reprint of 3E would sell, or just another supplement for it.
It might be a good short-term plan, but I'm not sure it works long-term. How well will 5th edition sell in comparison to 3rd and 4th?
Quote from: Endless Flight;499012It might be a good short-term plan, but I'm not sure it works long-term. How well will 5th edition sell in comparison to 3rd and 4th?
I can safely assume on my observations of how sequels sell, that it will still sell better compared to any add - on published at this point for 4E or 3E. 5E might be a flop compared to 3E, but only because of 4E's failure - but that's not the case with Pathfinder now, is it? And still, 4E from commercial standpoint, was a success.
It's a simple logic of market satiation. Whoever bought stuff for 3E, mostly bought it, same for 4E. Of course there's a loyal cadre of fans that'll keep on buying, but part those fans, as well as part of those satiated, will buy a new edition.
Well, 3e was an amazing success. No edition, no matter what it is, is likely to ever hit those numbers again. And as great as it did, it didn't do anything like the original Red Box's success. The hobby will NEVER hit those numbers again. Most people making decisions like this (the ones that know what they're doing) compare the numbers to current expectations, not to previous editions. 3e was 10 years ago now, the entire world lost their jobs and all their money in the intervening time.
Quote from: Endless Flight;498983Why even bother with a second edition? If it ain't broke, don't fix it. And if it is broke, just fix it with errata and put in in the next printing.
Because it is broke? Not in a "here's a combo that can break the game" kind of way, but in a "this stops functioning properly after seventh level or so" kind of way.
Quote from: B.T.;499054Because it is broke? Not in a "here's a combo that can break the game" kind of way, but in a "this stops functioning properly after seventh level or so" kind of way.
How many editions does it take to fix a broken rule?
QuoteHow many editions does it take to fix a broken rule?
The world may never know.
Quote from: B.T.;499096The world may never know.
I knew you were gonna say that. :D
Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;498427What the title says...anyone have any predictions as to when there might be a new edition of Pathfinder? Thoughts as to what this might look like?
The crashed starship in Golarion will turn out to be the long lost
Azhanti High Lightning cruiser from the Third Imperium. Scout/Couriers will stumble upon Golarion and the Fourth Imperium will try to annex it.
This, of course, will lead to a
Pathfinder/Traveller20 crossbreed rules system.
Watch The Skies!
It Is Coming!
Quote from: JDCorley;4990353e was 10 years ago now, the entire world lost their jobs and all their money in the intervening time.
Still, successful videogames sell more than successful videogames 10 years ago (I'm under NDA because I worked for them, but Assassin's Creed: Revelations and exp. Skyrim numbers are jaw-dropping). There still are movie blockbusters etc.
If anything a recession makes people more selective, but good/successful things still have a chance (3E launched in the middle of the Dotcom brust/9-11 recessions, BTW, even if those combined don't hold a candle to current one).
IMHO, Paizo should keep a target in mind: retro-compatibility. Buyers must have the feeling that they are not only buying an improved edition, but an edition that will improve the way they game with the old supplements. I like Pathfinder because at the end I retrofitted some of the best changes in D&D 3.5E without the need to throw away everything. And I feel that PF was an half-baked attempt because they could have fixed much more.
Anyway, as was noted in another thread, the real divide between D&D 4E and the previous editions is that with 3E you could still easily adapt 1E/2E stuff for the new system. 4E made this much more difficult, thus creating, in practical terms, a schism. As long as Paizo avoids this mistake, they will be already halfway there with their 2E.
QuoteIMHO, Paizo should keep a target in mind: retro-compatibility. Buyers must have the feeling that they are not only buying an improved edition, but an edition that will improve the way they game with the old supplements. I like Pathfinder because at the end I retrofitted some of the best changes in D&D 3.5E without the need to throw away everything. And I feel that PF was an half-baked attempt because they could have fixed much more.
Wise words. But then again, it alone didn't save Chaosium - it did pass through a rather turbulent stage, if my knowledge serves me right.
Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;498427What the title says...anyone have any predictions as to when there might be a new edition of Pathfinder? Thoughts as to what this might look like?
At this point, you will not see a new edition for Pathfinder until at least 1-2 years after 5E shows up. Paizo will not risk shaking up or fragmenting their customer base until they see what the fallout of 5E is. They have no reason to take that gamble, so they won't do it.
Furthermore, it's fully possible that Paizo will never product a 2nd Edition of Pathfinder. Or, if they do, it will be more like the editions of Call of Cthulhu: A new rulebook, some new art, maybe a new cover. But the rules will only receive a light patina of errata. This is likely for a couple of reasons:
(1) They appear to have a successful and flourishing business model which
does not depend on selling core rulebooks or splatbook supplements. This means they aren't trapped on the supplement treadmill (a business model that we now know is intrinsically linked to burnout). As long as people continue buying their adventure paths and battlemaps and miniatures... what motivation do they have to reboot the rules? Absolutely none.
(2) They built their current customer base on providing classic D&D gameplay. And the truth is that their customer base is primarily made up of people who, fundamentally, either don't experience or don't care about the spherical cows (http://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/2434/roleplaying-games/on-the-importance-of-spherical-cows) that CharOppers and Armchair Theorists rage on about. (If they did, then they wouldn't still be playing 3.x.) So, again, they have no motivation to change.
Paizo also seems to be run by some pretty savvy people. They saw what happened to WotC when WotC tried to move away from a rule system that most of their customer base wasn't dissatisfied with. It's difficult for me to believe that Paizo will needlessly repeat that mistake.