I will never stop playing Pathfinder I am probably never going to buy anything new from them ever again. Apologizing for an upcoming Adventure Path where players run characters in the city watch. All because players are running the fantasy version of the police. They never apologized for making an Adventure Path where players can run and are encouraged to be as evil as can be. Nor  apologize where players are supposed to be like Pirates and also do evil things. Decided it was a good thing to include the Pathfinder version of Pennywise the Clown in their setting. Yet to virtue signal and more likely sales they have to apologize for players being members of the City Watch. That is not at all insulting to members of the hobby who have parents, friends and family who are in the force or law enforcement in general. Don't take my word for it is on their Agents of Edgewatch Update on the Paizo blog and I am not putting a link to it as I no longer want to give them any kind of traffic or support in sales.

Which also reveals the sheer hypocrisy of members in the hobby because they are all offended by playing members of the city watch or any kind of fantasy law enforcement . Yet were and are fine playing evil as can be player characters, pirates with very lose morals. Man I am sometimes embarrassed being a gamer in the hobby lately. Even then it's not the nature of the apology it's the fact that it is the most pathetic abject grovelling I have seen to date from an rpg company. It comes off as a low level mafia flunky having to apologize for a major screw-up to the godfather.

Here's the statement: https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6sh9r?Agents-of-Edgewatch-Update

Quote from: insubordinate polyhedral;1135991Here's the statement: https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6sh9r?Agents-of-Edgewatch-Update

Thank you IS because I am flabbergasted at the sheer hypocrisy of the statement as well as the opportunistic timing and virtue signalling of the entire statement. Nor willing to give them anymore traffic at least at this time.

They came out with an AP where players run evil characters, the more evil the better. Pirates and were are not talking the kind from the Pirates of the Caribbean movies much worse to the point they make the movie versions look like Paladins. Where the players guide for Skull and Shackles flat out says Paladins will not work in the AP. No apology yet playing Fantasy police in AP is problematic. They just went full retard imo.

QuoteBut there's more to it than that. What I hadn't realized--no doubt a result of my own privilege--is that the very concept of police, the idea of in fact taking on the role of police, makes some members of the Paizo community deeply uncomfortable, no matter how deftly we might try to pull off the execution.

So just don't play the fucking adventure then?

Quote from: Snark Knight;1135993So just don't play the fucking adventure then?

Seconded. Apparently doing one job as an editor and publisher is being "privileged" .

Not to mention the so called members of the community who are uncomfortable playing the police in an AP sure as hell had no problems playing evil characters and amoral pirates.

If Erik Mona is so ashamed of having police protect people then I hope the next time he needs that protection. It never comes.

Just in case they latter want to memory hole it

http://archive.is/tUSdC

GunMetal Games just did this for Interface Zero 3.0 too. Very disappointing.

That post is just plain idiotic. Places have laws, someone gets to do the enforcing to make them mean something.

I would very much like to know if there are specific people or this is just made up virtue bollocks.

"Erik Mona, Gross Stupidity in a built up area, 6 month, creep!"

***Edit, having read the forum post it would appear that there are. I do not understand how playing pirates, murderhoboes and slavers is fine but city watch isn't***

One commentator at least responded reasonably:

QuoteThis whole thing strikes me a little ridiculous. In Hell's Vengeance, you play as murderers, slavers, and worse. It's an entire adventure path devoted to playing as real bad guys. If that's not your cup of tea, which I completely understand, all you have to do is not play it. But now Paizo is apologizing for creating an adventure path where you can play as fantasy world police?

If people want to view the police as "the bad guys" in society, a point of view I vehemently disagree with, that's their choice. If they don't want to play the adventure path, nobody is going to make them do so. But neither should Paizo apologize for allowing players to play as law enforcement in a fantasy world. I think that's an incredibly cool concept. Miami Vice in Golarian! What could be more fun?

Is this what the next 20 years of our lives is going to be like? Endless apologies for fear that your creative vision might not make everyone feel included? Think of all the great works of art that have espoused a point of view that offends people. No more Mark Twain, J.D. Salinger, Quentin Tarantino, or Stanley Kubrick. All too problematic! Maybe we should add Lawful alignments to the list of prohibited alignments in Organized Play lest people think respect for order is an acceptable position.

Erik, I have nothing but the deepest respect for what you and the other hard-working people at Paizo create. I don't think you should apologize for the good work that you do and that they do simply because some people can't or won't identify with law enforcement as protagonists.

And of course the usual policing, heh, of comments occurs:

   

QuoteRemoved some posts and their replies.

    This blog is meant to address an issue which is important to many members of our community. Paizo has already made a statement to stand in solidarity with individuals who have reason to be concerned about the themes in Agents of Edgewatch. Debating about whether this statement is necessary, or questioning the feelings of those who it speaks to, is harmfully dismissive to those community members. For the health of the discussion, I feel we should steer away from putting the question of value on people's concerns or whether the statement was necessary. This statement exists because we feel it was worth it to address these concerns. Please share this level of respect with everyone in the community.

To which another comment replied:

QuoteDescribing speech as "harmful" in this context is, in my view, irresponsible. Raising questions is not harmful, nor is disagreeing with a decision. Such reasoning could be used to justify censorship of any view for any reason. We appear to be moving towards a society where certain segments of the population believe that speech is violence and silence is violence, leaving the only acceptable form of expression unthinking echoing of groupthink dogma. Truth and goodness shall be defined by popular vote. Please do not take actions that exacerbate this silencing of dissenting voices.

Obviously, I can't speak as to whether the voices you silenced were respectful because I can't see the comments you deleted but if the only reasoning for silencing these voices is that they disagreed with the decision to apologize for creating content that allowed adventurers to pretend to be law enforcement, then I do not believe the silencing of those opinions was warranted.

Quote from: tenbones;1136011GunMetal Games just did this for Interface Zero 3.0 too. Very disappointing.

Man, that's a huge bummer. I was looking forward to that.

It has gotten to the point where people need to stand up and say fuck you, and not do it quietly. I'm not saying all cops are good or right or anything like that, but where's the nuance in anything anymore

Quote from: sureshot;1135989I will never stop playing Pathfinder I am probably never going to buy anything new from them ever again. Apologizing for an upcoming Adventure Path where players run characters in the city watch. All because players are running the fantasy version of the police. They never apologized for making an Adventure Path where players can run and are encouraged to be as evil as can be. Nor  apologize where players are supposed to be like Pirates and also do evil things. Decided it was a good thing to include the Pathfinder version of Pennywise the Clown in their setting. Yet to virtue signal and more likely sales they have to apologize for players being members of the City Watch. That is not at all insulting to members of the hobby who have parents, friends and family who are in the force or law enforcement in general. Don't take my word for it is on their Agents of Edgewatch Update on the Paizo blog and I am not putting a link to it as I no longer want to give them any kind of traffic or support in sales.

Which also reveals the sheer hypocrisy of members in the hobby because they are all offended by playing members of the city watch or any kind of fantasy law enforcement . Yet were and are fine playing evil as can be player characters, pirates with very lose morals. Man I am sometimes embarrassed being a gamer in the hobby lately. Even then it's not the nature of the apology it's the fact that it is the most pathetic abject grovelling I have seen to date from an rpg company. It comes off as a low level mafia flunky having to apologize for a major screw-up to the godfather.

Thank the Lord.  I am a refugee posting for the first time here after leaving another forum which would not have allowed this common sense assessment to go unchecked.  The pile on from posters is one thing.  But overactive ideological moderation is too much.  Thank God for feee speech.

We also apparently have evil drow either....

I want these corporate tools to make a good product and leave their political posturing out of it.

Quote from: ZetaRidley;1136025It has gotten to the point where people need to stand up and say fuck you, and not do it quietly. I'm not saying all cops are good or right or anything like that, but where's the nuance in anything anymore

Most people don't want to lose their jobs because hundreds of screaming morons flooded their workplace's HR department and social media with complaints about them literally employing Hitler.