Quote from: The Exploited.;1136672Do you guys ever vote with your wallets, or will you continue to do business with Paizo, WoTC, Green Ronin, Whitewolf or Evil Hat?

I can't swear I'd never buy from WoTC again, but I would not buy from the others you mention. I mostly buy OSR & 5e 3PP.

Quote from: S'mon;1136717I can't swear I'd never buy from WoTC again, but I would not buy from the others you mention. I mostly buy OSR & 5e 3PP.

I get it man... It's hard not to buy stuff if you really love a game. Plus, if all your group play 5e. I'm sure my pdf collection has some real doozies. I somehow don't quite feel the same anger towards WoTC knowing that they are ultimately controlled by the megacorp Hasbro who ultimately pull the strings.

Those other companies now make my skin crawl.

Quote from: FASAfan;1136701My shelves now contain BX, ADD 1&2 and OSR stuff such as Basic Fantasy, Astonishing Swordsmen & Sorcerers of Hyperborea, Fantastic Heroes and Witchery and the aforementioned stuff... oh and FASA Star Trek material - hence my handle.

Fair enough mate. I hoovered up the ACKS stuff recently as well. I've not really had a good gander at it tho'. We are living in good times for retro gaming with the whole OSR movement. There's a shit tonne of great choices.

Quote from: Tom Kalbfus;1136699If they want to market to LGTBQ role playing game players, they can leave me out!

I've no problem with people's personal proclivities. Best of luck! Everyone should be treated equally, etc.

I only judge people by their actions at any rate.

BUT one thing I just don't understand... When did sexuality become so important to RPGs? It was just never a thing when I was playing, or even when I play now, and I play with quite a few different people. Also, I mean at no point, is anyone saying that you can't play a gay character in the rule books. In fact, nearly all the books, that I've read don't mention it at all. It's just not a thing. So why, all of a sudden, does it now need to be 'backed' into the rules (unless it's a game like Alpha Blue or something?).

And if you ask these basic questions, then your a 'phobe'. Which is utter lies.

I mean, if someone wants to play a gay character at my table, that's fine. But he or she will be treated exactly the same as I'd treat a heterosexual character. AKA - it's just not really important to the game. As you say, the adventure will be about doing cool things.

Sure, bring what you want to your table and games. But forgive me, if I'm not particularly interested what your character's 'sexual interests or exploits are. I'd much rather cut the head off some ORCs.

I'm trying not veer off topic. I feel it's somewhat relevant, because of 'forced' game alteration. Pundit can tell me to stop if he think I am.

Quote from: Tom Kalbfus;1136699If they want to market to LGTBQ role playing game players, they can leave me out! I don't want to buy the "gay edition" of Dungeons & Dragons, if they want to cater to that group, I am perfectly happy to stick with 3.5. I am not interested in gay romance or gay hijinks, I am not interested in gay people at all, nothing against them, I'm just not interested in them. Maybe some people will get off on gay romance, just not me, I shouldn't have to apologize for being heterosexual, watching gay people do gay things does not float my boat. I like simple role playing adventures, I like suspense, I like characters I can identify with, for me that is not gay people. I would like modern politics to stay out of games, I don't want to be hit on the head with racial diversity and inclusion in adventures, I am not there to be taught a lesson, I am there for my own entertainment. If they want, they can have a seperate category for gay adventures, or adventures that emphasize how "black" the characters are, but I am not interested in those, what they look like shouldn't matter, and since it is a game of the imagination, I don't actually see them.

I had a hetero player in a 3e game play a gay elf character as a result of having another player draw a character portrait for him which he said made the character "look gay" (like dude thats all elves, androgyny or whatever) and everyone was fine with him running with it and it actually turned out to be not a bad character concept at all, but I'm sure that since none of us were gay there were a lot of stereotypes in play with that which one of the woke kiddies would have called us names for and got offended, for example, when he'd do in-character speech he tried to be sing-song valley girl with a lisp, and this is a burly guy so the comedic factor was pronounced. No one set out to lambaste or make fun of gays though i'm sure thats what a wokeling would claim was going on. They'd likey insist that if we can't "gay correctly" that we must not gay at all or its appropriation or marginalizing or whatever. The mere presence of gays or gay tropes would not deter me from including material, but the overt normalization of such in the game-world (waterdeep pride parades) certainly would. An npc that happens to be gay is fine for example, but one which is a crusader or televangelist about it begins to rub me wrong.

Quote from: Slipshot762;1136730The mere presence of gays or gay tropes would not deter me from including material, but the overt normalization of such in the game-world (waterdeep pride parades) certainly would. An npc that happens to be gay is fine for example, but one which is a crusader or televangelist about it begins to rub me wrong.

Yep.

Speaking of inclusion... And speaking of 'art'. And WoTC wanting to include more depictions of 'gay' character in the illustrations, etc. Just how does one make a character 'look gay?' I mean, surely these SJWs don't want the old trope of an effeminate fop flanneling about the world, right? As you pointed out.

When you look at the art in a D&D book, etc. And you see some burly sword wielding armored character, just how the fuck do you know if he's gay or straight? He could, in theory be gay. But the SJWs don't seem to want that, however. So, do all character illustrations have to be holding hands while slaying a dragon? Or hanging off a character of the same sex  while they are being chased by the city watch?


Is it important what sexuality a character is, if he or she is doing something cool while depicting the game's context? It's ridiculous...

What's to say my avatar, that I drew is not gay? Just how could an SJW prove me wrong? I'll wait... LOL

I don't let my (or others') politics affect my art & entertainment purchases. But then I also stopped buying $ product by WotC, WW/Onyx Path, etc. years ago. I just was no longer interested in the products they had to offer. I don't like Pathfinder, Chronicles of Darkness, FATE, or most WotC D&D (except for Basic 5e). So for me it was never a political boycott, just an aesthetic disinterest.

I am still open to being surprised by Paizo in the future, but I know I am very much not their customer base... and that's OK for both of us! Let them cater to their customers as they understand it -- and let's see if those who screech loudest truly are their untapped vein of customer profits.

Quote from: Opaopajr;1136742I don't let my (or others') politics affect my art & entertainment purchases. But then I also stopped buying $ product by WotC, WW/Onyx Path, etc. years ago. I just was no longer interested in the products they had to offer. I don't like Pathfinder, Chronicles of Darkness, FATE, or most WotC D&D (except for Basic 5e). So for me it was never a political boycott, just an aesthetic disinterest.

I am still open to being surprised by Paizo in the future, but I know I am very much not their customer base... and that's OK for both of us! Let them cater to their customers as they understand it -- and let's see if those who screech loudest truly are their untapped vein of customer profits.

Their first edition. Core rules are good, they are just a slightly modified version of D&D 3.5, I don't like buying adventures as $39 hard cover books that cover levels from 1 to 20. I don't want my campaign to be dictated by chapters in a 1 to 20th level adventure. I like the original concept of a dungeon, you know an adventure which provides your character with no more than 3 levels of advancement, a dungeon should cost no more than $10 to $15 at most, the DM should be able to insert it into his campaign rather than have the adventure be the campaign!

There was a recent release of a fantasy cops product for 1E/OSRIC, City of Solstice, Evil Streets

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/309533/City-of-Solstice-Evil-Streets

Basically the premise is that a coalition of villains take over a fantasy city and the PCs are members of the city watch. There was an adventure released a week or so before this all started, it will be interesting to see if there is further support.

For the life of me when i read Guard!Guard! by Terry Pratchett i had no idea i would be reading a book that in just a couple of years later would be considered ''undesirable'' by some people, just because the main heroes are somewhat cops. The main takeaway from that is that yes, there are bad authoritarian guardians that use force and are corrupt=the day guard versus the corrupt incept but good guy guard=the night watch. So its by no means a clearcut issue. And in the end the argument between the Patrician and Vimes was won by Vimes in favor of people not beeing bad but just stupid. I had no idea it would be so real in light of the current irl developments. I would like to see what Sir Terry Pratchets stance on BLM would be. Somehow I feel his satire woudnt be SJW inspired.

Now about Paizo beeing scared and groveling. They are a big company, they play by their own rules. Sure, they risk alienating their fanbase by making a PC decision to ''look good''. But as they are a company i dont really expect them to behave any diffrently. Companies must look out for their selfinterest in anyways they can. Why should we be suprised? With the bounty of other rpgs out there, why should we support Paizo? I know my money wont land in their coffers any more, thats in my selfinterest.

Honestly, the current zeitgeist is looking pretty grim if you ask me. The ideological chaos coming from usa is making all the sjws around the world ape them en masse. Good knows in what it will end but i predict it will not end good. The real benefactors of all this civil unrest? Not the common man for sure.

Quote from: Warder;1136768For the life of me when i read Guard!Guard! by Terry Pratchett i had no idea i would be reading a book that in just a couple of years later would be considered ''undesirable'' by some people, just because the main heroes are somewhat cops. The main takeaway from that is that yes, there are bad authoritarian guardians that use force and are corrupt=the day guard versus the corrupt incept but good guy guard=the night watch. So its by no means a clearcut issue. And in the end the argument between the Patrician and Vimes was won by Vimes in favor of people not beeing bad but just stupid. I had no idea it would be so real in light of the current irl developments. I would like to see what Sir Terry Pratchets stance on BLM would be. Somehow I feel his satire woudnt be SJW inspired.

Now about Paizo beeing scared and groveling. They are a big company, they play by their own rules. Sure, they risk alienating their fanbase by making a PC decision to ''look good''. But as they are a company i dont really expect them to behave any diffrently. Companies must look out for their selfinterest in anyways they can. Why should we be suprised? With the bounty of other rpgs out there, why should we support Paizo? I know my money wont land in their coffers any more, thats in my selfinterest.

Honestly, the current zeitgeist is looking pretty grim if you ask me. The ideological chaos coming from usa is making all the sjws around the world ape them en masse. Good knows in what it will end but i predict it will not end good. The real benefactors of all this civil unrest? Not the common man for sure.

Without law and order, their are no profits! A company like Paizo or WotC cannot exist in a lawless land, why should they make new products if others can steal them and there was no one to enforce the law because, as they advocated, the police were defunded? Without the police it would be like Chicago under Al Capone, only worse.

Quote from: JeremyR;1136765There was a recent release of a fantasy cops product for 1E/OSRIC, City of Solstice, Evil Streets

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/309533/City-of-Solstice-Evil-Streets

Basically the premise is that a coalition of villains take over a fantasy city and the PCs are members of the city watch. There was an adventure released a week or so before this all started, it will be interesting to see if there is further support.

That premise reminds me of the show Gotham. There were a few episodes were the Penguin got elected mayor of Gotham City, and he started issuing licenses to commit a crime, and then in the last season the Joker had all the bridges to the mainland blown up, most of the citizens of the city were evacuated, but a few could not leave or remained behind and the whole city became a lawless autonomous zone. Seemed a bit over the top at the time I watched it, not so much now.

Quote from: Tom Kalbfus;1136770That premise reminds me of the show Gotham. There were a few episodes were the Penguin got elected mayor of Gotham City, and he started issuing licenses to commit a crime, and then in the last season the Joker had all the bridges to the mainland blown up, most of the citizens of the city were evacuated, but a few could not leave or remained behind and the whole city became a lawless autonomous zone. Seemed a bit over the top at the time I watched it, not so much now.

177 pages, nearly 4 months ago, no sales, no ratings. This is what makes me worried about spending too much time writing anything these days. Global economy collapse, nobody spending...

That's only because of the virus. The economy is fine, it just has been put on pause.

Quote from: Tom Kalbfus;1136780That's only because of the virus. The economy is fine, it just has been put on pause.

Isn't that like saying a person's heart is fine, it just has been put on pause? With the hear, it can be done safely under strictly controlled circumstances for very short periods of time, but without those controls or if it goes too long, and it's no longer "fine" at all. With the economy, it's almost impossible to have such strict controls because of all the moving parts acting with varying degrees of central control and when the timespan is undefined, well...

Quote from: Tom Kalbfus;1136780That's only because of the virus. The economy is fine, it just has been put on pause.

Very optimistic, be prepared though. The second wave will truly test us as a functional society.
It will be several years until we fully understand the massive economical damage inflicted by covid.
Small businesses going bankrupt is sadly only the beginning. I fear a total chain store capitalist takeover.

QuoteSmall businesses going bankrupt is sadly only the beginning. I fear a total chain store capitalist takeover.

I'm tempted to agree. Amazon's surged during the pandemic, while main streets and malls have died.