Hey, guys! :) I'm hoping you can provide me with a few ideas or point me towards some resources that might help me. I'd like to draw some truly awe-inspiring overland maps for my campaign.
I have no Photoshop skills, so I'll be drawing everything by hand. However, I'm still unsure of what's most appropriate for my needs. Should I use a hex grid, or rather a square grid for mapping? Which is "better"? Or more precisely, what are the strengths and weaknesses of using either type? Also....what scale should I be using? I eventually want to cover a large area, but I'm still a stickler for the smaller details. Where can I find some great sources of both hex and graph paper? I've seen normal graph paper in stores, but nothing that gets me excited, and I've been completely unable to find hex paper locally. There are online sources of both types of graph paper for me to copy with my printer, but I don't know how I feel about them.
I'm going to be delving big-time into cartography, so any input would be appreciated. :)
P.S. I'm currently fooling around with 1 inch square graph paper. It's not bad, but I'm still open to new ideas, as I'm considering a "sandbox campaign" for my group...
What game system?
I use Hexographer (http://www.inkwellideas.com/roleplaying_tools/hexographer/). It's a fantastic program and uses hexes, as you can probably guess. You can export the files as pngs and convert them to jpegs using MSPaint or print them straight off.
I tend to use a scale of about 1 hex : 20 km.
Quote from: Sacrificial Lamb;431871Hey, guys! :) I'm hoping you can provide me with a few ideas or point me towards some resources that might help me.
I'd recommend Hex Map Glossary (http://inkwellideas.com/?p=681) as being the first part in a handy set of small articles on hex mapping. Pseudoephedrine's mention of Hexographer gets a thorough endorsement from me, too. Also, for just about all your fantasy cartographic needs, the Cartographer's Guild (http://www.cartographersguild.com/) is indispensable.
Quote from: jeff37923;431872What game system?
Both AD&D and 3.x. I've DM'ed both game systems recently, and I guess I'll focus on those two for now.
Hexes work better. They allow you to determine distances much easier.
I'd go with hexes too, mostly because distances are indeed easier to figure out, it's cooler in hex-crawl mode, as it's different from the dungeon environment, it's cool to roll d6 for random directions, etc.
As for the scale, it all depends how big you want your sandbox to be?
30 miles per hex seems to be the standard for large regional maps (as per 1st ed DMG which lists between 20 and 40 miles per hex, explaining the way to zoom in on the scale for closer maps, p.47+). Think Darlene's Greyhawk map in the 1983 boxed set, more or less.
For regional maps, you can have around 5 miles per hex.
My Dunfalcon area map for instance has a scale of 6 miles per hex:
(http://www.enrill.net/images/maps/dunfalcon-500.jpg)
Quote from: Pseudoephedrine;431873I use Hexographer (http://www.inkwellideas.com/roleplaying_tools/hexographer/). It's a fantastic program and uses hexes, as you can probably guess. You can export the files as pngs and convert them to jpegs using MSPaint or print them straight off.
I tend to use a scale of about 1 hex : 20 km.
How "n00b friendly" is it? I'm mostly computer illiterate, so I often don't know what I'm doing when fiddling with map-making programs. Also....how precisely can you map with it? Hexographer looks pretty, and kinda cool too...but not very precise. I'd be focusing on shoreline details, roads, towns, mines, battle sites, major cities, etc.
Quote from: SineNomineI'd recommend Hex Map Glossary as being the first part in a handy set of small articles on hex mapping. Pseudoephedrine's mention of Hexographer gets a thorough endorsement from me, too. Also, for just about all your fantasy cartographic needs, the Cartographer's Guild is indispensable.
Holy crap. The maps on Cartographer's Guild are fucking incredible. I'm feeling a little inadequate right now. Seriously. :(
As for your issue of graph paper, my advice is to design and print your own! (http://www.incompetech.com/graphpaper/) :)
You can decide the size of the hexes or squares or whatnot, the thickness of the lines, their color, etc etc. Then you download the PDF of the graph paper you want, and you print it out as much as you want for yourself.
Quote from: Sacrificial Lamb;431876Both AD&D and 3.x. I've DM'ed both game systems recently, and I guess I'll focus on those two for now.
Another vote for hexes, I'd also suggest making a handwritten map on just plain paper (unlined) to use as the baseline or even a prop. You can always match the original map to hex paper at your convenience.
Quote from: danbuterHexes work better. They allow you to determine distances much easier.
Could you explain that? I'm not completely sure that's true. I like hexes, and want to experiment with them, but I've never drawn any hex-based maps myself, so I'm not seeing the advantage here. For example, what I've done in the past when using square grids, is line them up next to each other, and link them together. It seems that it would be more difficult to do that with a hex-based map.
Quote from: Benoist;431880I'd go with hexes too, mostly because distances are indeed either to figure out, it's cooler in hex-crawl mode, as it's different from the dungeon environment, it's cool to roll d6 for random directions, etc.
As for the scale, it all depends how big you want your sandbox to be?
30 miles per hex seems to be the standard for large regional maps (as per 1st ed DMG which lists between 20 and 40 miles per hex, explaining the way to zoom in on the scale for closer maps, p.47+). Think Darlene's Greyhawk map in the 1983 boxed set, more or less.
For regional maps, you can have around 5 miles per hex.
I'm probably aiming for 30 miles per square or hex, and I'll probably experiment with both types of grids to discover what's best for me. I also think I'm going to draw these maps by hand, as I sense that it'll be good practice for me. When I want to zoom in on the smaller areas, I'll use either 3 mile squares/hexes or 5 mile squares/hexes. Haven't made up my mind yet.
Quote from: BenoistMy Dunfalcon area map for instance has a scale of 6 miles per hex:
(http://www.enrill.net/images/maps/dunfalcon-500.jpg)
Yo, Benny...that map looks
really good. Did you draw it, and if so...what medium did you use? Also....what's going on with that hex grid? It looks numbered. Did you buy some hex paper?
Quote from: Sacrificial Lamb;431882How "n00b friendly" is it? I'm mostly computer illiterate, so I often don't know what I'm doing when fiddling with map-making programs. Also....how precisely can you map with it? Hexographer looks pretty, and kinda cool too...but not very precise. I'd be focusing on shoreline details, roads, towns, mines, battle sites, major cities, etc.
It's the most beginner-friendly mapping program I know, let alone hex-mapping.
It can be as precise as you want. You just need to decide on your scale. There's a free-paint option for doing rough edges if you don't want to follow the hex boundaries.
I should probably share with you guys my normal methods for designing maps. What normally happens, is that I take a number 2 pencil and a ruler, and start drawing on graph paper. When I'm done, I go to the drugstore, and use their photocopy machine to photocopy it. I then take the photocopy, and color it in with colored pencils. Here's an example of a map I've done using this process:
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc258/Sac_Lamb/raith.jpg?t=1282284267)
Practically speaking, the grid isn't always perfectly copied, which is why I'm considering using a faint square grid, as it might make things less complicated. However, I haven't drawn on a hex grid before, and I want to experiment with it. I mean, I won't know how I feel about it unless I try, right? :)
Quote from: PseudoephedrineIt's the most beginner-friendly mapping program I know, let alone hex-mapping.
It can be as precise as you want. You just need to decide on your scale. There's a free-paint option for doing rough edges if you don't want to follow the hex boundaries.
I'll have to look into that...
Quote from: Sacrificial Lamb;431886Could you explain that? I'm not completely sure that's true. I like hexes, and want to experiment with them, but I've never drawn any hex-based maps myself, so I'm not seeing the advantage here. For example, what I've done in the past when using square grids, is line them up next to each other, and link them together. It seems that it would be more difficult to do that with a hex-based map.
Determining the distance between two points on a hex map is a matter of counting the hexes between the two points. You can't do that with a square grid unless it is only straight up or down as the diagonal are 1.77 units larger than the horizontal or vertical.
This blog post of mine: http://batintheattic.blogspot.com/2008/10/mapping-with-hexes.html talks about mapping with hexes and how to make adjoining maps.
I hand drew my maps in the harn style. As you can see here. http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_mFjy4EWzmtg/SREW5-5tMXI/AAAAAAAAATg/ubuEZaApJgo/s1600-h/csio_regional_sm.jpg
The steps are
1) with a pencil lightly sketch the coast line
2) Check for mistakes
3) With a fine line blue pen (not a ball point). Draw the coasts
4) With a pencil lightly draw the boundaries of the hill and mountain regions
5) With a fine line black pen draw the mountain border and fill it with light diagonal slashes
6) For the hill you want to do a dot pattern. Just take your pen and tap solidly inside the hill boundary forming a pattern of dots. You don't draw a boundary for hills.
7) Take your blue fine line pen and draw in your rivers
8) Note where the swamp and use a swamp symbol to fill it boundary. Note like hills you don't draw a boundary. The swamp symbol is a line with a small V or W on top.
9) Assemble at set of coloring sticks and coloring pencils. Dark Green for Forest, Light Green for normal woodland, Light Blue for water, A golden yellow for crop, light brown for grassland, tan for alpine terrain. Areas of snow and ice (like mountain tops) are left white.
You want to color in the smaller areas of vegetation first.
10) Cropland are generally the smallest areas draw first
11) Then Forests
12) For mountains you will need to decide their elevation. The lowest could completely covered in woodland, grassland, or forest. Higher still will have crowns of alpine terrain, and the Highest crowned with ice/snow. The vegetations for elevations goes from highest to lowest: Ice/snow, Alpine, grassland/woodland/forest.
13) Color the rest of the map with the base terrain which is generally woodland (trees cover 25% to 75%) for temperate regions.
14) With a red pen market various settlements. I use filled squares for towns and cities, filled circles for castles, open circles for keeps, and open diamonds for villages, open triangles for points of special interests, and upside down open diamonds for mines. Also use any other symbols drawn with the pen for things like dungeons, etc.
15) Draw Roads with a red pen. I uses solid lines for Roman style roads, dashed lines for the main dirt roads, and dotted lines for trails and unimproved roads.
16) With a black pen for terrain and red pen for settlements and points of interest label your map.
The advantage of this approach you can freely mix terrain and vegetation in a natural way.
Quote from: Pseudoephedrine;431887It's the most beginner-friendly mapping program I know, let alone hex-mapping.
It can be as precise as you want. You just need to decide on your scale. There's a free-paint option for doing rough edges if you don't want to follow the hex boundaries.
Thanks for the recommendation!
As for doing shorelines... that is the most time-consuming part if you don't want the coasts to match the hex borders--which most people don't want. I should point out there is a new approach to doing coastlines... the old way was to draw a couple of thick blue lines over the portions of the land hexes that should be water. But Hexographer was recently updated with polygons, so you can now go to the "Shapes" tab, click "Polygon" set the polygon's border width to 0 and the fill color to sea blue then draw polygons to cover the portions of hexes which should be land. Note that you need to click the "save" button near the bottom of the Shapes tab between polygons. (Otherwise you're still editing the previous shape.)
The other option you may not see at first that addresses one of the concerns mentioned is that you can place features (city, castle, ruins, village, mines, etc. icons) freely (such that they aren't centered in a given hex) by going to the "options" menu and looking at the feature placement choices.
And in addition to the Mystara/basic D&D style maps there are now map objects and techniques to support 1st edition Greyhawk style maps. Here's a short text tutorial: http://inkwellideas.com/?p=1063
Quote from: estar;431900Determining the distance between two points on a hex map is a matter of counting the hexes between the two points. You can't do that with a square grid unless it is only straight up or down as the diagonal are 1.77 units larger than the horizontal or vertical.
This blog post of mine: http://batintheattic.blogspot.com/2008/10/mapping-with-hexes.html talks about mapping with hexes and how to make adjoining maps.
I hand drew my maps in the harn style. As you can see here. http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_mFjy4EWzmtg/SREW5-5tMXI/AAAAAAAAATg/ubuEZaApJgo/s1600-h/csio_regional_sm.jpg
The steps are
1) with a pencil lightly sketch the coast line
2) Check for mistakes
3) With a fine line blue pen (not a ball point). Draw the coasts
4) With a pencil lightly draw the boundaries of the hill and mountain regions
5) With a fine line black pen draw the mountain border and fill it with light diagonal slashes
6) For the hill you want to do a dot pattern. Just take your pen and tap solidly inside the hill boundary forming a pattern of dots. You don't draw a boundary for hills.
7) Take your blue fine line pen and draw in your rivers
8) Note where the swamp and use a swamp symbol to fill it boundary. Note like hills you don't draw a boundary. The swamp symbol is a line with a small V or W on top.
9) Assemble at set of coloring sticks and coloring pencils. Dark Green for Forest, Light Green for normal woodland, Light Blue for water, A golden yellow for crop, light brown for grassland, tan for alpine terrain. Areas of snow and ice (like mountain tops) are left white.
You want to color in the smaller areas of vegetation first.
10) Cropland are generally the smallest areas draw first
11) Then Forests
12) For mountains you will need to decide their elevation. The lowest could completely covered in woodland, grassland, or forest. Higher still will have crowns of alpine terrain, and the Highest crowned with ice/snow. The vegetations for elevations goes from highest to lowest: Ice/snow, Alpine, grassland/woodland/forest.
13) Color the rest of the map with the base terrain which is generally woodland (trees cover 25% to 75%) for temperate regions.
14) With a red pen market various settlements. I use filled squares for towns and cities, filled circles for castles, open circles for keeps, and open diamonds for villages, open triangles for points of special interests, and upside down open diamonds for mines. Also use any other symbols drawn with the pen for things like dungeons, etc.
15) Draw Roads with a red pen. I uses solid lines for Roman style roads, dashed lines for the main dirt roads, and dotted lines for trails and unimproved roads.
16) With a black pen for terrain and red pen for settlements and points of interest label your map.
The advantage of this approach you can freely mix terrain and vegetation in a natural way.
This is all good information, and I especially enjoy the stuff you've written in your blog. For now, I'll focus less on the grid, and more on the drawing of the actual map. The current map I'm working on has a very faint square grid that will probably become almost invisible once I photocopy it.
I'll eventually experiment with a hex grid, though hexes only really feel right to me for somewhat smaller regional maps, rather than semi-global maps.
Quote from: BenoistAs for your issue of graph paper, my advice is to design and print your own! :)
You can decide the size of the hexes or squares or whatnot, the thickness of the lines, their color, etc etc. Then you download the PDF of the graph paper you want, and you print it out as much as you want for yourself.
I've recently started fooling around with this. The first map I'm working on is one square grid line per inch, with a light grey grid color.
Quote from: PseudoephedrineIt's the most beginner-friendly mapping program I know, let alone hex-mapping.
It can be as precise as you want. You just need to decide on your scale. There's a free-paint option for doing rough edges if you don't want to follow the hex boundaries.
Quote from: SowelBlackThanks for the recommendation!
As for doing shorelines... that is the most time-consuming part if you don't want the coasts to match the hex borders--which most people don't want. I should point out there is a new approach to doing coastlines... the old way was to draw a couple of thick blue lines over the portions of the land hexes that should be water. But Hexographer was recently updated with polygons, so you can now go to the "Shapes" tab, click "Polygon" set the polygon's border width to 0 and the fill color to sea blue then draw polygons to cover the portions of hexes which should be land. Note that you need to click the "save" button near the bottom of the Shapes tab between polygons. (Otherwise you're still editing the previous shape.)
The other option you may not see at first that addresses one of the concerns mentioned is that you can place features (city, castle, ruins, village, mines, etc. icons) freely (such that they aren't centered in a given hex) by going to the "options" menu and looking at the feature placement choices.
And in addition to the Mystara/basic D&D style maps there are now map objects and techniques to support 1st edition Greyhawk style maps. Here's a short text tutorial: http://inkwellideas.com/?p=1063
Thank you, kind sir, for the information. I like the "old school" aspect of it, and will look into it. :)
I'm seeing a lot of votes for hex maps here... :hmm:
Quote from: Sacrificial Lamb;431886Yo, Benny...that map looks really good. Did you draw it, and if so...what medium did you use? Also....what's going on with that hex grid? It looks numbered. Did you buy some hex paper?
Thanks mate! :)
I drew it by hand, then 'colored' it in shades of grey with pencils. I actually colored it, added the names, as well as features like shadows dropping and so on, with Photoshop. I generally don't like maps that are computer generated, no matter how pretty. I prefer the maps drawn by hand. No contest, to me.
The hex grid I didn't buy. It's actually a Judges Guild PDF. I printed out a few pages of it, and used one for this.
Here, Right Click, Save As (it's a direct link to the PDF). (http://enrill.net/documents/JudgesGuildCampaignMap.pdf)
Quote from: Benoist;431942Thanks mate! :)
I drew it by hand, then 'colored' it in shades of grey with pencils. I actually colored it, added the names, as well as features like shadows dropping and so on, with Photoshop. I generally don't like maps that are computer generated, no matter how pretty. I prefer the maps drawn by hand. No contest, to me.
The hex grid I didn't buy. It's actually a Judges Guild PDF. I printed out a few pages of it, and used one for this.
Here, Right Click, Save As (it's a direct link to the PDF). (http://enrill.net/documents/JudgesGuildCampaignMap.pdf)
Here we go....hexes with numbers. :) I'm the same way, I guess. I like to draw maps by hand myself, though I could stand to learn a little computer enhancement....for city names and the like.
Thanks for the link!
el Saco Lambo
Squares are acceptable for towns or very small regions. For larger maps, hexes are the correct format.
RPGPundit
Pund's got the right of it.
The explanation is that over a larger area, squares will inevitably distort space more than hexes will (non-contiguous triangles are the best of all polygons, but that's neither here nor there).
If you're familiar with the Mercator projection and its problems, you can see how this distortion can completely bollocks things up if you're drawing on a large enough scale.
If you're not, here's a diagram from wikipedia. Each red circle covers the same amount of real area on the earth.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Tissot_mercator.png
Is there any kind of plastic hex grid out there...? Something that I can place over a hand-drawn map? I'm trying to draw over that numbered hex grid right now, and it's...distracting. On the other hand, the faint lines of the 1 inch square grid I'm also drawing on are so unobtrusive, that they aren't distracting at all... :hmm:
Quote from: RPGPundit;432102Squares are acceptable for towns or very small regions. For larger maps, hexes are the correct format.
RPGPundit
I'll be focusing on regions that are hundreds of miles in size, if that's relevant.
Quote from: Sacrificial Lamb;432127Is there any kind of plastic hex grid out there...? Something that I can place over a hand-drawn map? I'm trying to draw over that numbered hex grid right now, and it's...distracting. On the other hand, the faint lines of the 1 inch square grid I'm also drawing on are so unobtrusive, that they aren't distracting at all... :hmm:
You could also hand draw it first, then feed the sheet into a printer and print the hex grid overtop it.
Quote from: Pseudoephedrine;432130You could also hand draw it first, then feed the sheet into a printer and print the hex grid overtop it.
That's a
great idea. I wish I'd thought of that myself. Thank you! :)
I'll experiment with both types of grids, so we'll see how it goes...
Anyone posted this (http://steamtunnel.blogspot.com/2009/12/in-praise-of-6-mile-hex.html) yet?
6 mile hex is just short of a 10km hex, btw.
Quote from: Hairfoot;432141Anyone posted this (http://steamtunnel.blogspot.com/2009/12/in-praise-of-6-mile-hex.html) yet?
Nice..
Quote from: Sacrificial Lamb;432136That's a great idea. I wish I'd thought of that myself. Thank you! :)
I'll experiment with both types of grids, so we'll see how it goes...
Do it a color photocopy first.
Make several color photocopies for various purposes.
You can do a high resolution scan and draw notes and lines on the map for various purposes. In some cases this marries the best of both approaches.
Quote from: estar;432155Do it a color photocopy first.
Make several color photocopies for various purposes.
You can do a high resolution scan and draw notes and lines on the map for various purposes. In some cases this marries the best of both approaches.
You mean like DM maps and players' maps..? Hmmm...
Quote from: Sacrificial Lamb;432254You mean like DM maps and players' maps..? Hmmm...
That's actually what I do myself. I produce a file of the map, JPG or whatnot, and then I print several copies. One being used for the game itself, others for various DM notes I write directly on the map. I might as well change colors and whatnot to create different maps based on the same original drawing.
For instance, the Seven Spires:
(http://enrill.net/images/maps/continent8a.jpg)
Which I modify then to show the different political areas:
(http://enrill.net/images/maps/continent9h.jpg)
I'm also in favor of hex maps for anything larger than a village.
My FLGS actually has pads of hexagonal graph paper for sale. Very useful if you like hand drawn maps. I don't know why, but I've always preferred hand drawn maps for RPGs.