I'm considering putting together an Odyssey style game in an OSR vein. Likely starting out with Beyond the Wall as a setup for the core island and using Stars Without Number as the main ruleset.
Are there any decent supplements for seafaring that aren't too terribly onerous to manage?
OD&D White Box actually had 7 pages devoted to naval stuff. I dunno if any retro clones cloned that part. Maybe Delving Deeper?
Wilderlands of the Magic Realm, Revised Edition guidebook has the Judges Guild sea encounter and sea conditions rules in a better presentation.
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/271372/Wilderlands-of-the-Magic-Realm-Revised-Guidebook
I have a PDF that I used for a Swords & Wizardry seafaring campaign
https://drive.google.com/uc?export=download&id=1v-DQ9X5a1Tairnbu_5p4tqca50Cj-hze
From Judges Guild there is
The Island Book
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/937/Island-Book-I
Sea Steed and Wave Rider
However I have the most important bits summarized in Magic Realm
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/88334/SeaSteeds-and-Wave-Riders--Revision-2011?term=Sea+Steeds
The Ready Ref sheets which has a ton of tables that I didn't include in Magic Realm
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/932/Ready-Ref-Sheets-1978?term=The+ready+ref
I am the author of both.
Hope this helps.
Not a supplement, but it would be worth your while having a trawl of this thread (http://www.autarch.co/forums/house-rules/hr-naval-rules) for ideas.
This is great stuff, everybody. Thank you.
I could very well just say "each hex is a week" and let it go at that, but while that is good for a Traveller-esque game, we'd really be missing out if the ship and crew just quietly went from place to place.
I tend to use the Mentzer Expert Set seafaring rules; the Getting Lost chance is pretty brutal on the open waters but feels pretty accurate if you allow a daily course correction - even if the stars are occluded, they should be able to tell where the sun rises. Using it RAW I found it quite funny that it was practically impossible to get from Specularum to the Isle of Dread; which felt realistic-medieval but not very gamable! :D
OSR clones like Labyrinth Lord clone the B/X seafaring rules which are similar.
The correct answer is MAZES & MINOTAURS. It's FREE, it's OSR at its best and its all about going on Odysseys.
http://storygame.free.fr/OLDMAZES.htm
Quote from: Manic Modron;1088068This is great stuff, everybody. Thank you.
I could very well just say "each hex is a week" and let it go at that, but while that is good for a Traveller-esque game, we'd really be missing out if the ship and crew just quietly went from place to place.
If you're going for an Odyssey-style game, they can't go quietly from place to place. Every day, or at least every couple of days, they need to land somewhere to take on water and food and rest the oarsmen. Those are your random encounters, which can occasionally turn into something bigger, or act as places to get information on where to go next.
Quote from: S'mon;1088119I tend to use the Mentzer Expert Set seafaring rules; the Getting Lost chance is pretty brutal on the open waters but feels pretty accurate if you allow a daily course correction - even if the stars are occluded, they should be able to tell where the sun rises.
I'll second this.
Quote from: S'mon;1088119Using it RAW I found it quite funny that it was practically impossible to get from Specularum to the Isle of Dread; which felt realistic-medieval but not very gamable! :D
That isn't a bug, that's a feature. If you start X1 with 1st level characters, they'll be appropriate level when the finally reach the Isle. ;)
Quote from: S'mon;1088119I tend to use the Mentzer Expert Set seafaring rules; the Getting Lost chance is pretty brutal on the open waters but feels pretty accurate if you allow a daily course correction - even if the stars are occluded, they should be able to tell where the sun rises. Using it RAW I found it quite funny that it was practically impossible to get from Specularum to the Isle of Dread; which felt realistic-medieval but not very gamable! :D
OSR clones like Labyrinth Lord clone the B/X seafaring rules which are similar.
Note that getting "lost" as sea is typically less of an issue than getting "off course". Storm winds, variable currents, and the aforementioned cloud cover can all serve to drive a ship in unintended directions. When the sky clears, the seafarers will be able to figure out their location, but will have to navigate a new and unknown course to get back on track to their destination.
Quote from: Zalman;1088193Note that getting "lost" as sea is typically less of an issue than getting "off course". Storm winds, variable currents, and the aforementioned cloud cover can all serve to drive a ship in unintended directions. When the sky clears, the seafarers will be able to figure out their location, but will have to navigate a new and unknown course to get back on track to their destination.
I'd think they can figure out their latitude and their bearing, but not their longitude - absent magic, landmarks etc.
Quote from: S'mon;1088225I'd think they can figure out their latitude and their bearing, but not their longitude - absent magic, landmarks etc.
The point being (I say this as an experienced ocean sailor), that they don't need to know their exact "position" on an open sea in order to not be "lost". Latitude and bearing is good enough, unless they have also massively lost track of time for some reason. Getting "off course" is a common occurrence at sea and course corrections are normal and regular. No sailor with a modicum of experience would feel "lost" in this situation.
Of course, the other thing to consider is that if there's nothing but water to every horizon, then what difference does it make if you're "here" or "there" on an imaginary map? Being "lost at sea" only comes into play if (1) you encounter something stationary or (2) die of thirst because you don't. So my question would be what scenario is the game trying to create by having players become "lost"? Is it to introduce this one island adventure you've been working on (shall we call it Quantum Island then, and put an Ogre on it? And did they really need to get "lost" to encounter it? Couldn't it just be something that wasn't on the player's map?).
Or is the goal to roll dice day after day until the players either roll luckily or run out of water and die of attrition?
If there is a time restriction in the scenario, getting off course and not being able to correct to reach a destination in a timely manner, could count as 'lost'.
Quote from: Godfather Punk;1088680If there is a time restriction in the scenario, getting off course and not being able to correct to reach a destination in a timely manner, could count as 'lost'.
Is it within the PCs' power to make up time, or otherwise continue the adventure?
If not, save everyone's gaming time and just flip a coin.
If so, especially if the adventure goes in a different direction because of the lost time, then it's worth rolling for it, and rolling with it.
Quote from: estar;1088044I have a PDF that I used for a Swords & Wizardry seafaring campaign
https://drive.google.com/uc?export=download&id=1v-DQ9X5a1Tairnbu_5p4tqca50Cj-hze
...I am the author of both.
Hope this helps.
Ah yes, your merchants PDF is awesome, Thank you!
I'll add a 0D&D Naval supplement that I have been working on since 2016, that I have archived up on my Google Drive, as a free download, Enjoy!
Galleys.pdf (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1TTmA82nbR2y7KzDApoAsl-Wj3rUnMPTp)
I have since learned that Viking Longships are capable of much higher speeds than historically listed... here is a link to a video of a Viking Longship running at full reach before a storm traveling about 44 Mph...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XORSpUUy0lQ
I'll also add that
Twin Crowns d20 is one of the best sets of rules for age of sail and navigation for D&D that I own, and you can still obtain copies for ridiculously reasonable amounts off of Ebay... Like
here...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/TWIN-CROWNS-Campaign-Setting-d20-Dungeons-Dragons/254008892686?hash=item3b241c1d0e:g:VSkAAOSwIABcBBo~&frcectupt=true
or here...
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=Twin+Crowns&_sacat=0
This is like
Ready Ref Sheets level of goodness for the Age of Sail, IMO.
Quote from: GameDaddy;1088896I have since learned that Viking Longships are capable of much higher speeds than historically listed...
Viking ships move even faster when the Northmen jam on guitars.
[video=youtube;fu2bgwcv43o]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fu2bgwcv43o[/youtube]
Quote from: GameDaddy;1088896Ah yes, your merchants PDF is awesome, Thank you!
100% agree with this. I have been using it for a while. (Is it sacrilege to be using it with 5e as well as OSR? :D)
Thanks for the PDF, Rob.
Quote from: GameDaddy;1088896I'll also add that Twin Crowns d20 is one of the best sets of rules for age of sail and navigation for D&D that I own, and you can still obtain copies for ridiculously reasonable amounts off of Ebay... Like
here...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/TWIN-CROWNS-Campaign-Setting-d20-Dungeons-Dragons/254008892686?hash=item3b241c1d0e:g:VSkAAOSwIABcBBo~&frcectupt=true
or here...
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=Twin+Crowns&_sacat=0
This is like Ready Ref Sheets level of goodness for the Age of Sail, IMO.
I never had the Twin Crown campaign book. Is there anything in it I'm missing if I have both the Pirates and the Broadsides books that Living Imagination did? Just curious because I still use the pair a lot (for OSR and 5e both) even though I don't play 3e anymore.
https://www.amazon.com/Broadsides-d20-LII1500-John-Faugno/dp/0971214522
https://www.amazon.com/Pirates-system-LII1503-Rules-Supplement/dp/0971214565
Never been much of a seafaring adventures sort of GM.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1089856Never been much of a seafaring adventures sort of GM.
You're missing out on all sorts of potential awesome. I'm reading Christian Cameron's latest in
The Long War series (historical fiction about the Greco-Persian Wars), and you've got naval battles, piracy, raiding towns and small scale warfare. Because even a single trireme means you carry an army with you, since it requires 180 oarsmen, in addition to your complement of marines and sailors. If they're trained and armed (which is the stuff of several sessions in its own right), you have a decent-sized body of men for all sorts of shenanigans.
Quote from: moonsweeper;1088924I never had the Twin Crown campaign book. Is there anything in it I'm missing if I have both the Pirates and the Broadsides books that Living Imagination did? Just curious because I still use the pair a lot (for OSR and 5e both) even though I don't play 3e anymore.
Broadsides is very good, a standalone supplement for Historical, and Fantasy Naval Adventuring. It includes rules for age-of-sail Navigation and includes new prestige character classes such as Harpooners (Whalers), Marines, Oceanic Sentinels (Magic-users), I have my own custom class, Sea Wizards in my campaigns, however
Broadsides includes Privateers, Surgeons, Sea Captains, and Sea Scouts, as well as new spells, rituals, and nautical magic items, as well as a brief sea creature Bestiary.
Pirates, of course expands on this and has a great section on real Pirates, and includes more than a dozen new Prestige Classes including a Gentleman Pirate, Pirate, Slaver, The Sea's Chosen, Eldritch Captain, Brethren, Jali (Witch Doctor or Sorceror), Sail Riders, Salvagers, Lookouts, Marauders, Reckless Boarders, Island Protectors, and Smugglers. There is a good section on ships trade goods, and booty, as well as a section on custom building sailing ships, some new equipment and magic items, and of course, a Pirate Adventure.
The original book,
Twin Crowns features notes on integrating the Fantasy Races into an age-of-sail game, Adds some new Character Classes including an Arcane Ritualist (Magic-user), Bounty Hunter, Diplomat, Divine Ritualist (Priest), and Privateers. It includes very detailed and comprehensive equipment tables including firearms, gunpowder, and cannons of all sizes. In the Naval Adventuring portion what is included here in detail that is not included or only briefly described in
Broadsides is the use of maps, Weather tables for the GM, Ship Classes, and rules on repairing ships. There is a complete Magic and Religion system that includes Deities of
Ptalmanar (The Mythical Kingdoms that make up the world of Twin Crowns), with lots and lots of new spells and magic-items. Finally there is a big history section that goes on to describe a number of fantasy Kingdoms that could also easily be regarded as Norway/Scandinavia, The United Kingdom, Holland, Denmark, Germany, France, Spain, Portugal, Russia and their new world Colonies. There is a section on other lands which could be slightly related to the Middle-east, Indian Ocean, Asia, and South-east Asia. Finally it includes a timeline and a complete history for
Ptalmanar, remarkably similar to our age-of-sail history, I would add. Both Twin Crowns and Broadsides includes the rules for age-of-sail naval combat, and includes lots of different types of sailing ships and galleys you can incorporate into your campaign.
Quote from: GameDaddy;1094422Broadsides is very good, a standalone supplement for Historical, and Fantasy Naval Adventuring. It includes rules for age-of-sail Navigation and includes new prestige character classes such as Harpooners (Whalers), Marines, Oceanic Sentinels (Magic-users), I have my own custom class, Sea Wizards in my campaigns, however Broadsides includes Privateers, Surgeons, Sea Captains, and Sea Scouts, as well as new spells, rituals, and nautical magic items, as well as a brief sea creature Bestiary.
Pirates, of course expands on this and has a great section on real Pirates, and includes more than a dozen new Prestige Classes including a Gentleman Pirate, Pirate, Slaver, The Sea's Chosen, Eldritch Captain, Brethren, Jali (Witch Doctor or Sorceror), Sail Riders, Salvagers, Lookouts, Marauders, Reckless Boarders, Island Protectors, and Smugglers. There is a good section on ships trade goods, and booty, as well as a section on custom building sailing ships, some new equipment and magic items, and of course, a Pirate Adventure.
The original book, Twin Crowns features notes on integrating the Fantasy Races into an age-of-sail game, Adds some new Character Classes including an Arcane Ritualist (Magic-user), Bounty Hunter, Diplomat, Divine Ritualist (Priest), and Privateers. It includes very detailed and comprehensive equipment tables including firearms, gunpowder, and cannons of all sizes. In the Naval Adventuring portion what is included here in detail that is not included or only briefly described in Broadsides is the use of maps, Weather tables for the GM, Ship Classes, and rules on repairing ships. There is a complete Magic and Religion system that includes Deities of Ptalmanar (The Mythical Kingdoms that make up the world of Twin Crowns), with lots and lots of new spells and magic-items. Finally there is a big history section that goes on to describe a number of fantasy Kingdoms that could also easily be regarded as Norway/Scandinavia, The United Kingdom, Holland, Denmark, Germany, France, Spain, Portugal, Russia and their new world Colonies. There is a section on other lands which could be slightly related to the Middle-east, Indian Ocean, Asia, and South-east Asia. Finally it includes a timeline and a complete history for Ptalmanar, remarkably similar to our age-of-sail history, I would add. Both Twin Crowns and Broadsides includes the rules for age-of-sail naval combat, and includes lots of different types of sailing ships and galleys you can incorporate into your campaign.
Thanks for the info. I never knew if there was anything in Twin Crowns besides the campaign world info.
It looks like I will definitely have to snag a copy to complete the set.