Optimistic Settings?

RPGPundit · June 09, 2009, 12:11:45 AM

Quote from: jibbajibba;307156Whilst both those settings are intrinsically optimistic that is due to the protagonists not the world. Take Dr Who. All his race are dead he has no home is destined to live alone and every friend or companion he meets eventually leaves or gets killed. Evereywhere he goes there is a being trying to kill the human race or take over the universe. All in all that is pretty dark.

Yes, but the essential difference that makes it "not dark" is that the fundamental outlook is optimistic. Compare that to, say, WFRP, where the overall feeling is that the world you're in is doomed to be consumed by Chaos eventually.

QuoteAs an aside I don't think 4E PoL is about creating a dark world it's just the easiest way to allow adventurers to kill everything they meet with no leagal ramifications. I mean imagine if the LG Lord of Blahblah was enlightened enough to give orcs basic rights in his kingdom on the basis they are sentient beings, then maybe walking into the orc camp and killing everyone migth have consequences beyond loading the cart with bags of silver coins and second hand armour.

Let me note that I'm not saying "dark sucks" or "PoL sucks". I'm just asking whether while it might be harder to make a really good setting that was fundamentally optimistic, whether there might not also be something refreshing about it and whether that inspiration wouldn't make for great setting material too?

RPGpundit

Imperator · June 09, 2009, 02:08:11 AM

Glorantha always seemed an optimistic setting to me, for example.

JongWK · June 09, 2009, 07:39:39 AM

Earthdawn is optimistic.

David R · June 09, 2009, 07:43:47 AM

SkyRealms of Jorune is optimistic.

Regards,
David R

Greentongue · June 09, 2009, 08:36:03 AM

Aren't most Pulp settings optimistic?
Heroes taking ACTION to oppose Evil.
Basicly the Heroes CAN make a difference.
Those who stand up, SUCCEED against great odds.

*One of the reasons I favor Pulp style games.
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LordVreeg · June 09, 2009, 09:24:53 AM

Quote from: PunditI think this is part of the secret of both Star Trek and Doctor Who's success, for example. Both have a basic optimism about things, that good people doing good things will save the world.

I have been reading thorugh this thread and all the posts. I have also looked at the examples and the objections.

I think 'Optimistic vs morally ambiguous' is more what you are aiming for, here. Dr. WHO can be seen as a very 'points of light' setting, while being optimistic. As was mentioned, there is a lot of evil and darkness there. It is not the % of good vs evil that makes a setting optimistic, it is more the ability to have optimistic protaganists.

What I think makes for a 'dark' setting is a lack of that ability, such as in Moorcock's Elric, where even the good guys are anti-heroes.

Sigmund · June 09, 2009, 10:59:08 AM

Quote from: aramis;307218DS9 was a much darker version of Trek than TNG or TOS. That's also why a lot of people did not like it... it was too dark a view. (Some of the darker episodes of TNG show the Brennan and Braga darkish twists, too.)

That's exactly why DS9 has always been my favorite flavor of Trek.

Sigmund · June 09, 2009, 11:01:02 AM

Quote from: Caesar Slaad;307227I tend to dislike settings that assume you will fail, and anything you do is only temporary. Prime examples: CoC/Delta Green, Midnight.

One little tweak makes this sort of setting from the worst to the very best in my book: chance of success. The universe can still remain very threatening and oppressive, but giving the PCs the chance (and responsibility) to be the ones that make a difference between light and darkness fills the game with awesome for me.

Couldn't have said it better myself, so I won't

RPGPundit · June 09, 2009, 07:30:58 PM

Quote from: LordVreeg;307271I have been reading thorugh this thread and all the posts. I have also looked at the examples and the objections.

I think 'Optimistic vs morally ambiguous' is more what you are aiming for, here. Dr. WHO can be seen as a very 'points of light' setting, while being optimistic. As was mentioned, there is a lot of evil and darkness there. It is not the % of good vs evil that makes a setting optimistic, it is more the ability to have optimistic protaganists.

What I think makes for a 'dark' setting is a lack of that ability, such as in Moorcock's Elric, where even the good guys are anti-heroes.

I think that these are two slightly different, though undoubtedly connected, issues.

RPGPundit

aramis · June 09, 2009, 08:07:08 PM

Part of a setting feeling dark is the setting being evil-prone.
Part of it is the apparent lack of hope for protagonists to make a difference.
Part of it is the over-the-top feel of the antagonists.

Two of the three is enough for me to consider it a dark setting.
WFRP: Evil prone, lack of apparent hope.
B5: Evil Prone, over-the-top antagonists.
Dark Heresy/40K: all three...

RPGPundit · June 10, 2009, 01:16:56 PM

Yup, so what constitutes an optimistic setting, and do you know of any examples of them in RPG settings? Let's ignore licensed settings, because I think that this is an interesting point; I'd bet that licensed settings you could find some optimistic ones (some have already been named here) but can you find optimism in settings designed by gamers?

RPGPundit

Imperator · June 10, 2009, 01:32:43 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit;307461Yup, so what constitutes an optimistic setting, and do you know of any examples of them in RPG settings? Let's ignore licensed settings, because I think that this is an interesting point; I'd bet that licensed settings you could find some optimistic ones (some have already been named here) but can you find optimism in settings designed by gamers?

RPGPundit

I think that an optimistic setting is one in which the actions of PCs matter both in the long and the short term, so nothing's predetermined and you can have hope.

Again, a good example is Glorantha: you can play with a PC in any side of the Hero Wars, and nothing is decided.

Greentongue · June 10, 2009, 01:35:31 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit;307461Yup, so what constitutes an optimistic setting, and do you know of any examples of them in RPG settings? Let's ignore licensed settings, because I think that this is an interesting point; I'd bet that licensed settings you could find some optimistic ones (some have already been named here) but can you find optimism in settings designed by gamers?

RPGPundit

Does my Untold Stories (of the Great Flood) count?
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aramis · June 10, 2009, 01:58:45 PM

Toon comes to mind, Pundit.
SJ: GURPS Yrth, TFT's Cidri
Greg Stafford: Pendragon, Glorantha (especially in Hero Quest)
DragonRaid RPG (It is a "Christian" RPG.)
Dō! (Players are Fixing the universe...)
Castle Falkenstein

Greentongue · June 10, 2009, 02:04:46 PM

David Dunham's Pendragon Pass? (Can it be considered separate from Glorantha?)
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