This is a post from another gaming board.

I am curious what people have to say about the playstyle, and gm style hinted at in this post.


I am NOT trying to belittle or glorify anyone in the post.

Just want to hear peoples thoughts.

Keep it positive





"Our party has decided we don't like how controlling our DM is so in order to get her to loosen our chains a portion of the party has decided we will split from the group and become evil. However we have a small problem. Throughout the campain the DM has introduced several level 20 character (a mage, dragon disciple, a neice of bahamut and a daughter of palor) that could easily massacre us. I am not the most experienced player as I have only been playing on and off for the past few years. I was wondering what is the best way to "break" my ranger( lvl4)/human werewolf (lvl3) from cross classing/presteige classing to make him the best I can so that he can actually stand a chance. He fights using 2 silver claw guantlets that he keeps on his hands with a partial shift at all times. I will be back in a few hours from work to join the conversation just hoping to get a few tips before then because I have to have a plan by tomorrow. Thanks much and I apologize if this is the wrong section I just joined.

oh and also we are playing 3.5"

Quote from: Bill;591046Keep it positive

Honestly it's hard reading the post.

Adressing problems with the DM (controlling) in the game world (by going evil of all things) instead of talking to him in RL (you know, like adults would)? Check.
Idiot DM waving around Mary Sues? Check.
Confrontational DM v. Players bullshit (I want to be able to take out the Mary Sues!)? Check.
Optimization fudge bullshit (I have a ranger/werewolf! Should I multiclass as a killfuck shoulshitter)? Check.
The game is the rules; the rules are the game? Check.

Honestly. Trying to stay positive but ... I am going to fail. I'll pass on this one.

Sounds like a broken play group, where the first step is for everyone involved to have an adult conversation about what type of gaming experience they want, and start from scratch.

While it is a bit hard to pass judgment while having only the information from player's point of view (how much exactly are the 20th level uber characters involved in the campaign? Are they chilling in the general area doing 20th level character things or following the party?) but the group sounds like it has problems.

Sitting down and talking things out would be a very good start.

There's not enough information to say much of anything.  However, I lean towards being against the player in this case.

"We will split from the group and become evil" always sends up red flags to me.  There is a certain kind of player who does this, and I don't enjoy playing with that type.   They tend to categorize everything as railroading even when it isn't and just generally try to be disruptive.  Normal people who aren't enjoying a game quit playing to do something else.  Only absolute fucktards keep playing with the intent of merely fucking with the GM.

I think it's notable that turning evil has no characterization ramifications to this player and his ranger is defined by what weapons he uses.  

There's definitely not enough information as to whether the high level characters represent some GM-PCs or not.  I will say that the type of player I'm referring to above tends to view any high level NPCs as GM-PCs and set off on a self destructive path to "teach the GM a lesson."

My advice is: keep doing what you're doing. A bad god-modding DM and bad passive aggressive players who can't work things out like adults? They're perfect for each other.

Quote from: TomatoMalone;591090My advice is: keep doing what you're doing. A bad god-modding DM and bad passive aggressive players who can't work things out like adults? They're perfect for each other.

True to a point, but that would not really help those people

• Doing something to rebel against a GMs style by undermining game
• Super NPCs that completely overshadow the party
• Weird, nonsensical multi-classing
• Powergaming

Reads like a television show that wants to depict a game, but not really. Drop them all off at an inner-city playground and forget to go back?

GM should stop the game and join the rest to find an older, mellower GM, and play in a campaign for six months or so without any of the above. Then go back, restart campaign. Learn from someone else by doing.

Sounds like a bad reality TV program almost.

Seriously though, I would be happy to DM for them, lol.  Not really this group would give me a migraine and I don't think I have enough pills for that.

Quote from: flyingcircus;591093Sounds like a bad reality TV program almost.

Seriously though, I would be happy to DM for them, lol.  Not really this group would give me a migraine and I don't think I have enough pills for that.

C'mon...your Avatar is the most omnipotent character in existence that has no super powers.

If he can use Karate on Superman effectively, surely you can DM for those guys.

Quote from: Bill;591091True to a point, but that would not really help those people

The only thing that will help those people is growing up and acting like adults.

Quote from: Bill;591091True to a point, but that would not really help those people

Professional counseling might not be able to help these people!

Fire the GM.

Yes, there are 20th level NPC's with retinues. Why would they bother a 5th lvl APL (Average party Level) group? As a GM, the only reason I can see, is if the players are directly threatening the holdings of the High level NPCs. THat would attract the attention of the high level NPC's.

Most of the time, the high level NPCs would be busy trying to figure out what other high level NPCs would be doing. Going after the little fish will automatically make you smaller, considering all the other big players will make moves while the major NPCs are distracted and chasing down little fry.

That's totally bogus in my book. Your GM is not worthy. Find a better GM!

Quote from: Gabriel2;591078There's definitely not enough information as to whether the high level characters represent some GM-PCs or not.  I will say that the type of player I'm referring to above tends to view any high level NPCs as GM-PCs and set off on a self destructive path to "teach the GM a lesson."

Oh yeah I had one of those once. I wasn't even the GM, I was playing in a game without classes or levels, but I was arguably one of the most combat-competent characters at the table, a sinister warlock with a penchant for using spirits to speed up his attacks (they'd literally get out and push).

This luminary sat down, looked me in the eye, and said "I'm going to kill your character". No amount of careful and patient explanation could convince this guy that it wasn't a competition, and that killing other characters usually wrecks games unless you signed up for a little PvP action in the first place. It was all about being top dog, alpha male, lord of the manor.

Needless to say brain trust wasn't invited to the next game.

The classes & race combo's & levels are like the things some old school players make up to mock newer editions.

Sounds like the DM is a dick & the game is not one which would interest me, though the players might be salvaged.

It comes across as adversarial, which is an attitude I got when I had some 3e era players come into my older D&D campaigns. That is just a personal observation, rather than a sweeping statement.