I'm thinking about using T1-4 for a group of players. I've never run it before, but have always wanted to. I was planning on using Labyrinth Lord.
I have 5 players:
I have an 8-year old and 11-year old who have role-played before. The younger likes story, the older likes action.
I have a 7-year old and a 13-year old who have never played before. The younger is easily distracted, the older wants story.
Finally, I have a 42-year old dad who has never played before and prefers to fast forward through the cutscenes of video games.
The 13-year old is the one who has specifically expressed an interest in trying out D&D, so I especially want a good experience for him.
So is T1 going to bore the players who are looking for action? Are the encounters too random or difficult to frustrate the story-seekers?
Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
PS - I also considered Into the Unknown or Keep on the Borderlands. I thought the former too underdeveloped in narrative and the latter I ran recently. But if either of those seem better, let me know.
I'd back away from T1-4 with a group like this. This is a crowd that needs to be presented with interesting opportunities to say and do things in the opening minutes of the game, and they are going to need to be shown what is possible. T1-4 is a bit much, really. Of course, you could use the maps and Village of Homlet setting for your own scenario. But I doubt this group is going to have the gumption to slog through a massive megadungeon.
I think Allston's Treasure Hunt or Perrin's Under Illefarn are the best introductory modules in D&D. Isle of Dread is also an evergreen classic.
T1 runs well as a standalone. Hommlett has a lot of good characters in it, making the RP part quite interesting.
What I would suggest to start is having the party ambushed by a small group of Lareth's bandits before they get to the village. This starts the game with a fight, everybody rolls some dice, players get a handle on the game's basic mechanics and their characters' abilities, and they are in the "story" without a lot of work on your part.
Personally I'd skip the modules, but T1 is a fine standalone. All you need is a tiny village with a 2 level nearby dungeon, max 10 rooms and have a beginning, middle, end happen in 1-2 sessions so everyone gets a taste. You have 2 players who want story and 3 who want action. Of course, who knows how many of the 5 will want to play a second session since they're mostly new to RPGs.
I agree with saskganesh. Definitely start in media res with an ambush.
However, there is little story in T1. Thus, I'd weave in more intrigue between the villagers and the dungeon, but also increase the violence. The problem for the action fans will be 1st level PCs are squishy. Personally, I use 4th level pregens to introduce OD&D to new players.
Quote from: saskganesh;945189T1 runs well as a standalone. Hommlett has a lot of good characters in it, making the RP part quite interesting.
What I would suggest to start is having the party ambushed by a small group of Lareth's bandits before they get to the village. This starts the game with a fight, everybody rolls some dice, players get a handle on the game's basic mechanics and their characters' abilities, and they are in the "story" without a lot of work on your part.
T1 alone, but have it lead to your own creation/some other plot as T2-4 is not fun for most people (mine it for ideas, the chains to get into the dungeon etc but I'd edit & shrink it way down in the interior if I ever did run it).
The Lareth bandit attack is a great idea & can be used to plant a further clue or 2 (maybe one obvious- the bandits are looking for "spies" or try to recruit them if the parley and another more subtle one- maybe it's dry but their cloaks/back of legs/boots whatever are all covered in mud) which twig them on to the bigger picture. This will help get them interacting & exploring with the personalities in Homlett and add a bit of a "something is off" vibe.
Perhaps some of the bandits escape & the recognise them among the work gang sabotaging the new tower/keep in the village a few days later... Cue another fight/chase.
If you like B2 (you mentioned recently running it) you might be interested in re-running a modified version using the maps in this thread from Dragonsfoot (http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=56433). I think it makes a stronger B2 to have the lairs separated out.
Temple of Elemental Evil, the T2-4 is actually pretty awful. I can't imagine it holding their attention.
I'd say T1 and use anything else. Even a random dungeon would probably be more interesting.
Quote from: Voros;945188I think Allston's Treasure Hunt or Perrin's Under Illefarn are the best introductory modules in D&D.
Seconding
Under Illefarn (http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?26367-Best-B2-that-isn-t-B2&p=649799#post649799). Or
Into the Wilds (mentioned in the same post).
Thanks for the advice. I have been sufficiently scared away from T1-4. Some of your comments have led me to think that I might need to go *much* simpler and just do something like a 1-page dungeon.
On the one hand, I'd like to do something pretty self-contained, since I have to consider the chance that they might decide to never play again (and even if we do play again, it will be somewhat infrequent). But on the other, I was looking to have enough "story" to let the kid who was interested in trying it see potential for bigger things.
For a one page dungeon I highly recommend Michael Prescott's excellent work. (http://blog.trilemma.com/?m=1)
Another vote for Treasure Hunt. The characters "play into" their classes while, in this case, learning the game mechanics and so on.
If you are running LL then check out some of the adventures for that or some other B/X adventures. B5 Horror on the Hill is a great introductory adventure with opportunity for both RP and action.
As has been stated previously, T1: Village of Hommelet is a fun home base, but the T2-T4 part is tedious. I played through the whole damn thing back when it first came out with some of my high school pals. We were all bored to tears with the actual plot/adventure by the end, but stuck it out because we were just having fun playing D&D together.
But the basic idea of the temple is sound. A mysterious ruin on a hill, that leads to adventures in the deep! Neat!
An idea I've had for a while, is to take the core concept of T1-4, but excise 2-4, and replace the temple with Dyson's Delve: https://rpgcharacters.wordpress.com/maps/dysons-delve/
It's a free, 11-level mini megadungeon. "Mini" in that each level is only about 200 feet across. But it goes deep. Much easier to keep track of, and the levels can be cleared out quickly enough that kids won't lose interest. I've played the first few levels with my own kids, and we were able to clear a level each session, playing on long, rainy saturday afternoons.
Quote from: Herne's Son;945551As has been stated previously, T1: Village of Hommelet is a fun home base, but the T2-T4 part is tedious. I played through the whole damn thing back when it first came out with some of my high school pals. We were all bored to tears with the actual plot/adventure by the end, but stuck it out because we were just having fun playing D&D together.
But the basic idea of the temple is sound. A mysterious ruin on a hill, that leads to adventures in the deep! Neat!
An idea I've had for a while, is to take the core concept of T1-4, but excise 2-4, and replace the temple with Dyson's Delve: https://rpgcharacters.wordpress.com/maps/dysons-delve/
It's a free, 11-level mini megadungeon. "Mini" in that each level is only about 200 feet across. But it goes deep. Much easier to keep track of, and the levels can be cleared out quickly enough that kids won't lose interest. I've played the first few levels with my own kids, and we were able to clear a level each session, playing on long, rainy saturday afternoons.
Wow. I had only associated Dyson's Delves with cool maps; I actually never bothered to see if any had content. My plan was to use the sample dungeon in the DMG (and I still might if the game takes off), but this "mini-mega-dungeon" looks really cool.
I will probably skip T1 entirely and just come up with some pretense to get them to the dungeon.
Thanks!
Quote from: drkrash;945576Wow. I had only associated Dyson's Delves with cool maps; I actually never bothered to see if any had content. My plan was to use the sample dungeon in the DMG (and I still might if the game takes off), but this "mini-mega-dungeon" looks really cool.
I will probably skip T1 entirely and just come up with some pretense to get them to the dungeon.
Thanks!
Excellent! Have fun with it!
The benefit of having a village nearby, of course, is that between delving sessions, the PCs can go back to town to restock, get healing, etc. In the game I'm running wth my kids, I just put a small, nondescript town about a day's walk away.
Yes, I think of the two volumes of Dyson's Delves as required purchases for anyone who is serious about playing D&D. I wish he'd put out hard copy versions of his city maps!
Quote from: drkrash;945185I'm thinking about using T1-4 for a group of players. I've never run it before, but have always wanted to. I was planning on using Labyrinth Lord.
If you've always wanted to, you should go ahead and do it. With kids, though, I'd avoid long interactions with the villagers. They'll probably want to go straight to fighting bad guys.
Quote from: RPGPundit;946984With kids, though, I'd avoid long interactions with the villagers.
Because the kids are gonna start stabbing the villagers.
Kids are monsters.
I began T1 in my Earthdawn/Greyhawk mashup with a small encounter with evil fae while traveling towards the village (a kobold trap in a wayward pine/camp site). Then when the players got to the village, I had a bugbear and 4 goblins stealing one of the infants from the first farm-house. Running fight in the field towards the woods. 8 year old was happy he got to blast goblins, and it started relations with the villagers on the "right foot".
I started with the 1st level of Dyson's Delve. After chargen, they were already pretty eager, so I gave them just enough background through exposition to get them started, and set them at the top of the stairs heading down. That worked fine.
I was a tiny bit concerned that the 13-year old (the newbie who specifically had requested that he wanted to try it) was going to think a dungeon delve wasn't "story" enough, but I underestimated one's first experience role-playing: he was totally entranced by even making decisions of taking the right hallway or the left hallway. About an hour into it (and I forced them through 3 1/2 hours!), he said, "It feels like I'm really in the story!" I knew then that things were going just fine.
There was only one death (the Dad), and I decided to use the DCC RPG death rule: another player attended to him on the following round, and the dead player made a CON test (he actually rolled an 18 CON), so I made him lose a point of CON permanently and let him return to 1 hp.
Next session, they will be prepared to investigate the 2nd level, which, if they succeed, will level them up.
Quote from: Spellslinging Sellsword;945201If you like B2 (you mentioned recently running it) you might be interested in re-running a modified version using the maps in this thread from Dragonsfoot (http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=56433). I think it makes a stronger B2 to have the lairs separated out.
Some great finds in that thread!
Quote from: drkrash;947204I started with the 1st level of Dyson's Delve. After chargen, they were already pretty eager, so I gave them just enough background through exposition to get them started, and set them at the top of the stairs heading down. That worked fine.
I was a tiny bit concerned that the 13-year old (the newbie who specifically had requested that he wanted to try it) was going to think a dungeon delve wasn't "story" enough, but I underestimated one's first experience role-playing: he was totally entranced by even making decisions of taking the right hallway or the left hallway. About an hour into it (and I forced them through 3 1/2 hours!), he said, "It feels like I'm really in the story!" I knew then that things were going just fine.
There was only one death (the Dad), and I decided to use the DCC RPG death rule: another player attended to him on the following round, and the dead player made a CON test (he actually rolled an 18 CON), so I made him lose a point of CON permanently and let him return to 1 hp.
Next session, they will be prepared to investigate the 2nd level, which, if they succeed, will level them up.
Sounds cool. I have long felt one of the big mistakes of the modern gamer community is to look down their noses at very basic gaming experiences. Going down a darkened stairwell is the essence of the D&D experience, and its what most people actually remember about their game! Anyway, the narrative exposition isn't even a game; it mostly amounts to sitting on your ass while some control freak tells you what you are doing.
Quote from: Spinachcat;946989Because the kids are gonna start stabbing the villagers.
Kids are monsters.
In my experience, they'll more often try to steal from the villagers.