There can be no other explanation for the following Unknown Armies character:

   Cadel Johnson

39 year old ex Army Sgt now homeless

Joined the army as an 18 year old without any career aspirations other than "I can shoot a gun real good". He was able to back up this statement with very high scores on the shooting range. One instructor even remarked that if he couldn't shoot straight they'd have no real use for him. This lead to him passing his sniper course.

In '91 he was sent to the Gulf with a forward recon unit to soften up key enemy positions before the main U.N strike force. After a particularly fierce firefight he came into contact with an American officer who was overseeing the clean up operation when for the first time he stared into what he later described as "the abyss".

He came upon the officer slaughtering civilians in a gruesome and ritualistic manner and instinctively levelled his weapon. In the split second he made eye contact he was drawn into a mind of pure evil. This started what he called his "descent". Later he was found wandering and mumbling incoherently about "windows to the soul".

He was placed in medical care and eventually released back into service. But he was scarred and was plagued by visions and nightmares which no amount of therapy or medication could cure.

He managed to keep it under control until an incident on a peacekeeping mission in East Timor meant the "the abyss" came calling again. The persecution of innocents again gave him insight into evil. After almost clawing his own eyes out to stop the "descent" he was repatriated back to Australia and placed in permanent medical care in a mental hospital. Years of treatment did nothing to erase the scars but did enough for him to be released back into society.

Since then he has drifted from place to place using his military skills to work and survive. Due to his paranoia regarding the eyes he wears dark glasses all day and refuses to make eye contact for longer than a few seconds before looking down. He is constantly worried about seeing evil and as a consequence has cut off all contact with family and friends.

Obsession: Hard as Nails-physically strong and survival skills

Rage: Bullies-Persecution of the weak and helpless

Fear: Possession-Eyes are the "window to the soul"
Nobility: Stand up for the weak

Huh? That sounds pretty cool.

-Joel

Loner Badarse In Sunglasses #4,203,788 sounds cool to you?

The campaign wiki is here. The players were asked in person to create a character who was a university student with an interest in "urban exploration", and who'd had some small supernatural experience - not enough to make them loopy, just enough to make their minds open to further experiences.

Instead, I got Loner Badarse In Sunglasses #4,203,788.

It's like being 16 and playing Cyberpunk 2020 again.

Quote from: JimBobOzInstead, I got Loner Badarse In Sunglasses #4,203,788.

It's like being 16 and playing Cyberpunk 2020 again.

In all fairness, isn't the guy playing in only his second RPG campaign?  He probably doesn't realise what a cliche he has created.

The whole thing of cliches is that you recognise them as cliches, even when you haven't heard of them before. Shit, anyone can recognise a cliched character, we have tv, film, books, even when we don't have rpgs.

And no, it's not only his second campaign ever. That was some other guys in his previous group. He's roleplayed for ages, and expressed a wish to do more than blow shit up.

Hehe, tell him to try again, but keep this character as an NPC for the game.

Quote from: JimBobOzLoner Badarse In Sunglasses #4,203,788 sounds cool to you?

Have you talked to him, do you know him well? If as you say, you all agreed that they were going to be students, there's a problem there.

On the other hand, if he is a newbie, you also have to cut him some slack. Don't forget that clichés and archetypes are very powerful and that there are only so many archetypes out there. Clichés are clichés because they are attractive. That kind of badass is probably very tempting for him and maybe he's got to get that out of his system.

If it's going to fuck up your campaign, I strongly suggest running a secondary single-player, mini-campaign for him and his badass character. If you've got the time and motivation, of course.

Yeah, if he's not following the stipulations for the campaign that you all agreed on, that's obviously a problem. And a jackassed thing to do, if he "got the memo" and still went ahead and did it.

As far as Loner Badarse #whatever goes. . .I dunno, would it have been acceptable if he were Loner Badarse #1? #2? Are Loner Badarses simply unacceptable, ever? If it's just because someone's done it before, well. . .shit, what RPG characters are immune to that criticism?

Why did I think it sounded cool? Well, I was wondering where he was going with the whole "eyes" thing, and how that would develop in came. Plus he didn't seem to me to be so much "Loner Badarse" as "Tortured, Broken Shell." Which is another cliche, sure, but that doesn't mean it can't be fun to play or see played. Also, the writeup made me really curious to see how the tension between "fears seeing evil and won't make eye contact"/"cut off all contact with loved ones" and "rage against bullies"/"protect the weak and powerless" would play out in game.

I must admit, I know jack-all about Unknown Armies. So there could be all kinda inappropriateness issues. If you're playing X-files and I design Hellboy, that really fucks up your shit. But the concept, taken at face value, sounded like it had some merit. Certainly not "oh my God how awful."

But hey, you're not required to justify your reconcile your subjective opinion to my subjective opinion. Just giving my reaction.

Peace,
-Joel

The problem with that character (apart from him not following the agreed guidelines) is that there's just too much written down about his past. There's like six campaigns worth of material there and nothing left to do.

Quote from: JimBobOzThe whole thing of cliches is that you recognise them as cliches, even when you haven't heard of them before. Shit, anyone can recognise a cliched character, we have tv, film, books, even when we don't have rpgs.

Maybe it's the movies that I watch and the books that I read, but the character has no resonance with me... other than in roleplaying games.  

Having said that...

QuoteAnd no, it's not only his second campaign ever. That was some other guys in his previous group. He's roleplayed for ages, and expressed a wish to do more than blow shit up.

So he should know better.  Of course, when faced with joining a new group sometimes you revert to what you know best.  Even if you claim you want to try something different.  I suppose :rolleyes:

Quote from: droogThe problem with that character (apart from him not following the agreed guidelines) is that there's just too much written down about his past. There's like six campaigns worth of material there and nothing left to do.

Hmm. I agree.

RPGPundit

Quote from: droogThe problem with that character (apart from him not following the agreed guidelines) is that there's just too much written down about his past. There's like six campaigns worth of material there and nothing left to do.

Yeah, that's a good point.

-Joel

Quote from: droogThe problem with that character (apart from him not following the agreed guidelines) is that there's just too much written down about his past. There's like six campaigns worth of material there and nothing left to do.

Hmmmm... I dunno. It's a typical badass with lots of plotseeds and at 39 years old, plenty of potential for further development into weirdness. It's Unknown Armies, you can throw a lot at this character.

While on the subject of the game, one of the BEST things about Unknown Armies is that no matter what twisted concepts you throw at it, the game will absorb them very easily. In other words, this is the perfect game when you don't want to give strict character guidelines and instead want to enjoy seeing a bunch of mismatched characters hang together under strange circumstances.

Because of this, I think Jim killed 50% of the fun by asking strictly for students. To me, that's like asking players not to make Wizards for Ars Magica. It's a feature of the game that you can make fucked up, mismatched characters. I had played a little and GMed my first game just recently and couldn't believe the amazing concepts the players came up with.

You can have an ex-mathematician turned cook, a cop, a wheelchair-bound elder, a cheerleader and a football fanatic and it's all going to work out somehow.

Quote from: JimBobOzThe players were asked in person to create a character who was a university student with an interest in "urban exploration", and who'd had some small supernatural experience - not enough to make them loopy, just enough to make their minds open to further experiences.

I've thought further about it and if you decide to let him play the character: make him a security guard at the university, perhaps befriending some of the students. That's perfect for his background. The military skills are relevant and so is the fact he's tired of extreme violence. Security jobs are a haven for this.

He works the nightshift, befriends other PCs that way. Probably overhears stuff sometimes. Gains their trust and somehow gets involved. Won't be hard to have a bully on campus to harass a student and act as a catalyst if necessary.

Quote from: droogThe problem with that character (apart from him not following the agreed guidelines) is that there's just too much written down about his past. There's like six campaigns worth of material there and nothing left to do.

Quote from: JimBobOzCadel Johnson

39 year old ex Army Sgt now homeless

Joined the army as an 18 year old without any career aspirations other than "I can shoot a gun real good". He was able to back up this statement with very high scores on the shooting range. One instructor even remarked that if he couldn't shoot straight they'd have no real use for him. This lead to him passing his sniper course.

In '91 he was sent to the Gulf with a forward recon unit to soften up key enemy positions before the main U.N strike force. After a particularly fierce firefight he came into contact with an American officer who was overseeing the clean up operation when for the first time he stared into what he later described as "the abyss".

He came upon the officer slaughtering civilians in a gruesome and ritualistic manner and instinctively levelled his weapon. In the split second he made eye contact he was drawn into a mind of pure evil. This started what he called his "descent". Later he was found wandering and mumbling incoherently about "windows to the soul".

This is UA. Was it really evil? Slaughtering some to save some (or more) could be a form of  magic.

QuoteHe was placed in medical care and eventually released back into service. But he was scarred and was plagued by visions and nightmares which no amount of therapy or medication could cure.

Does he remember the visions and nightmares? "Flashback" scenes playing them out could be productive, both as an exploration of character and a means of giving clues to the PCs.

QuoteHe managed to keep it under control until an incident on a peacekeeping mission in East Timor meant the "the abyss" came calling again. The persecution of innocents again gave him insight into evil. After almost clawing his own eyes out to stop the "descent" he was repatriated back to Australia and placed in permanent medical care in a mental hospital. Years of treatment did nothing to erase the scars but did enough for him to be released back into society.

What kind of incident? What was the insight into "evil"? Why did it drive him insane? Was it temptation? Did he sense something in himself that responded to that "evil"? Was it actually evil?

QuoteSince then he has drifted from place to place using his military skills to work and survive. Due to his paranoia regarding the eyes he wears dark glasses all day and refuses to make eye contact for longer than a few seconds before looking down. He is constantly worried about seeing evil and as a consequence has cut off all contact with family and friends.

So he fears his presense will lead to harm to his family and friends if he sees "evil"?

QuoteObsession: Hard as Nails-physically strong and survival skills

Rage: Bullies-Persecution of the weak and helpless

Fear: Possession-Eyes are the "window to the soul"
Nobility: Stand up for the weak

Everything significant is undefined. The dreams are undefined, the "evil", if it is evil, is undefined, his madness is undefined, the significance of eyes is undefined. Plenty to play with, particularly after a session or two to get a handle on the group, players and characters.

The only trick I see is integrating the PCs. Actually, Raimundo and Cadel isn't that much of a problem; street kid (who hates to be alone) a long way from home, surrounded by strangers, might see something familiar in another person who doesn't quite fit in. Cadel may see in a kid who has seen an "angel"  eyes that aren't so frightening.  In addition, since Raimundo is a music major, odds are he might know Erica, given how fine and performing art students tend to travel in the same circles. I'd suggest having the players talk to each other about their characters, and see what connections they (and you) can come up with.