So I backed the Kickstarter for OSE at the Elf level, then added the two additional books. I suppose the real question is WHY you would play this over B/X, as it is nothing more than an edited version of the original. Speaking for myself, I think anything that embraces old school D&D is good, and OSE is pretty much one of the best looking "clones" published since this stuff got started. Going over some of the text for a while (I got B/X Essentials a long time ago and have been using it in my B/X game), it's obvious the author has made a valiant attempt to be as clear as possible about every part of the game. I don't necessarily think this is a good thing, to be honest, even though he's tried to remain true to the original intent. One of the benefits to the older versions of D&D is in fact ambiguity; when you spell everything out explicitly, there's not a lot of room to experiment and make up stuff. Case in point, Pundit's video bitching about 5th Edition Twitter nonsense...I cannot believe modern players are so much less creative than the older ones, but I do think there is some sort of adherence to the unmalleable rules that older gamers just laugh at.
Anyway, I'd rate OSE overall as a 10/10 reference for B/X play. It's pretty awesome. I'd only give it a 7/10 as a B/X replacement due to what I just said, and also totally lacking any real flavor in the older books. But if you're playing B/X and want to print out a reference for players (like the abilities for clerics or whatever), it works perfectly.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/necroticgnome/old-school-essentials
I have been running a very popular BXE/OSE game at my FLGS. It is very easy to get into and I have a couple older than I am, and several college blokes and teens. They love it. And if the books look as good as Winter's Daughter does in print, then I think this will be far away the best KS value I have supported.
I backed at the same level as Brad. While I do own some other B/X clones, I've never actually owned the original game. I'm pretty happy with it. That said, I'm really looking forward to the support for other genres, the Dolmenwood campaign setting and a few of the other Necrotic Gnome projects in the (eventual) pipeline.
This is actually what disgusts me about the OSR.
Firstly, it's a complete cash grab. It clones something that already exists and then doles it out in small bits, Paradox DLC style.
Secondly, half of it is adding stuff AD&D added, but not playing AD&D because somehow it has cooties or something and B/X is superior. Even though B/X was pretty much the least successful version of D&D ever (lasting a whopping 2 years before being replaced)
Only way it could be worse is if it had that single saving throw nonsense.
Quote from: JeremyR;1101351This is actually what disgusts me about the OSR.
Firstly, it's a complete cash grab. It clones something that already exists and then doles it out in small bits, Paradox DLC style.
Secondly, half of it is adding stuff AD&D added, but not playing AD&D because somehow it has cooties or something and B/X is superior. Even though B/X was pretty much the least successful version of D&D ever (lasting a whopping 2 years before being replaced)
Only way it could be worse is if it had that single saving throw nonsense.
I backed it (PDF only) because it collects BX into a single set of rules.
Quote from: JeremyR;1101351This is actually what disgusts me about the OSR.
Firstly, it's a complete cash grab. It clones something that already exists and then doles it out in small bits, Paradox DLC style.
Secondly, half of it is adding stuff AD&D added, but not playing AD&D because somehow it has cooties or something and B/X is superior. Even though B/X was pretty much the least successful version of D&D ever (lasting a whopping 2 years before being replaced)
Only way it could be worse is if it had that single saving throw nonsense.
Cool story...
Quote from: JeremyR;1101351This is actually what disgusts me about the OSR.
Firstly, it's a complete cash grab. It clones something that already exists and then doles it out in small bits, Paradox DLC style.
Secondly, half of it is adding stuff AD&D added, but not playing AD&D because somehow it has cooties or something and B/X is superior. Even though B/X was pretty much the least successful version of D&D ever (lasting a whopping 2 years before being replaced)
Only way it could be worse is if it had that single saving throw nonsense.
I disagree about a cash grab; it's a labor of love seemingly created to support the author's own Dolemwood campaign and other B/X supplements. It grew organically until it became its own thing, and honestly I think it took off because people were asking for it. The author didn't create this in a vacuum then sell it, people WANTED him to do it.
To your second point, well yeah, I too am not that keen on playing AD&D with B/X, and I already have that game, anyway (Advanced Labyrinth Lord). But making up character classes is one of the cornerstones of old school play, so honestly who cares? The modular publishing of OSE makes it extremely easy to ignore whatever parts you don't like.
RE: modularity, it's not DLC whatsoever. The books are broken up to aid the DM and players. You can give the players a book that has everything they need, without all the DM stuff. The DM can more easily reference treasures and monsters without having to flip through two separate books. Did you even bother to look at the free book?
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/272802/OldSchool-Essentials-Basic-Rules
You can play B/X from that.
I dunno, this whole post just sounds like a knee-jerk reaction rather than any sort of valid criticism. I won't even get into the whole "B/X wasn't as successful ergo it sucked" argument you seem to be obliquely making...that's just dumb.
Was the B/X-ified AD&D something you knew you or suspected you wouldn't be into before you picked up the two additional books? Or was it more a case of, "I looked and wasn't impressed"? Or something else?
Quote from: SavageSchemer;1101423Was the B/X-ified AD&D something you knew you or suspected you wouldn't be into before you picked up the two additional books? Or was it more a case of, "I looked and wasn't impressed"? Or something else?
More like I've done it before and just prefer to play AD&D and remove stuff...every time I play B/X or BECMI or LL or Castles and Crusades or a lot of other simpler games, they always morph into AD&D, no matter how hard I try not to. I like the *concept* of B/X with paladins and rangers and illusionists, but in practice it doesn't work for me. Like I said, I'd rather remove stuff from AD&D than add it to B/X.
That said, the two books are pretty good and I bought them because I'm a completionist. Regardless of their value, not having them would be really annoying.
Even if it is a cash-grab, who cares? The author put a huge amount of work into this. There was solid demand and enthusiasm for it. The kickstarter was done to support rebranding from B/X Essentials to Old-School Essentials and to have decent print editions that weren't just POD.
I'd been following the project along on G+ since it started back in 2017 as B/X Essentials. Pretty much all the work was done in public on G+ and GDocs with clearly stated goals and public access to the work through every iteration until they were ready for release. Plus text versions of the rule books are available for free and basically create a B/X SRD that's 100% compatible with the original B/X rules with the bonus of being really cleanly organized.
Also, contra the cash grab assertion: this is an edition that can be sold in stores. I know some FLGS sell LL, but mine could not for whatever reason. Necrotic Gnome worked with my store to get the BX Essentials books on the shelves and they have done well enough that the store backed the KS as well. If DnD would put the Classic DnD game in stores this clone would be unnecessary. As it is, it is a beautiful edition of my favorite DnD.
Quote from: JeremyR;1101351This is actually what disgusts me about the OSR.
Firstly, it's a complete cash grab. It clones something that already exists and then doles it out in small bits, Paradox DLC style.
Secondly, half of it is adding stuff AD&D added, but not playing AD&D because somehow it has cooties or something and B/X is superior. Even though B/X was pretty much the least successful version of D&D ever (lasting a whopping 2 years before being replaced)
Only way it could be worse is if it had that single saving throw nonsense.
In my experience, which was considerable, very few DMs and even fewer good ones ran rules as written prior to AD&D. I would love to see the first campaign I played in offered for sale, even leaving out the nostalgia value. What people
did with OD&D was more interesting, to me, than all of the RaW campaigns. These OSR guys are doing the same thing as the great DMs in the old days but they can make their work commercially available. This reminds me of Arduin and Tekumel, which started out as settings and details and only became separate systems later.
The far cooler B/X Mars game is about to be launched by our very own poster AOS!
Quote from: Spinachcat;1101474The far cooler B/X Mars game is about to be launched by our very own poster AOS!
I will, of course, need a link to that!
Quote from: Brad;1101428More like I've done it before and just prefer to play AD&D and remove stuff...every time I play B/X or BECMI or LL or Castles and Crusades or a lot of other simpler games, they always morph into AD&D, no matter how hard I try not to. I like the *concept* of B/X with paladins and rangers and illusionists, but in practice it doesn't work for me. Like I said, I'd rather remove stuff from AD&D than add it to B/X.
That said, the two books are pretty good and I bought them because I'm a completionist. Regardless of their value, not having them would be really annoying.
Ah, yes! The old gamer OCD. I know it well.
Quote from: SavageSchemer;1101478I will, of course, need a link to that!
As soon as Aos launches his B/X Mars, I will be pimping it!
Does it have good, comprehensive GM advice? That is, could you hand this ruleset to an absolute beginner who wanted to learn running a game? I'm finding that precious few "new" systems feature this element.
Quote from: Melan;1101558Does it have good, comprehensive GM advice? That is, could you hand this ruleset to an absolute beginner who wanted to learn running a game? I'm finding that precious few "new" systems feature this element.
I wouldn't say so, no. There are sections for adventuring, creating dungeon or wilderness or even sea-born adventures and the like, but even that is pretty concise and is more like a suggested procedure rather than newbie-friendly advice.
Quote from: Melan;1101558Does it have good, comprehensive GM advice? That is, could you hand this ruleset to an absolute beginner who wanted to learn running a game? I'm finding that precious few "new" systems feature this element.
It depends, the BXE did not because it was a reference document. But OSE has more. However, it hews closely to the original Moldvay/Cook/Marsh material. It is succinct and helpful, but simple. I find that to be very helpful, but it's not exhaustive. Also, I don't recall play examples.
Thank you. I was looking for recommendations to a friend of a friend; I might have to look elsewhere.
Quote from: KingofElfland;1101563It depends, the BXE did not because it was a reference document. But OSE has more. However, it hews closely to the original Moldvay/Cook/Marsh material. It is succinct and helpful, but simple. I find that to be very helpful, but it's not exhaustive. Also, I don't recall play examples.
I'm doing some side-by-side comparisons of the OSE Core Rules book with the Moldvay Basic Rules. There's definitely no play examples. There is a step-by-step guide to character creation, albeit without a sample character like Borg the Fighter. There's a chapter dedicated to running adventures and being a GM, but again the topics are fairly sparse. The books are designed so that topics run only 1-2 pages max.
This is probably the one critique I have of the series, that it could benefit from gameplay examples and a sample dungeon, but we also live in an age where such things are much easier to find than they were in 1981.
It looks like we have a OSE PbP game starting on Unseen Servant. DM is looking to do a short, Halloween, play by post. Might be worth it to lurk (while it's going on) or a read (when it's done) to get a sense of how it plays. Some folks don't like the pacing of PbP (the slow pace is what draws me, due to scheduling ridiculousness, nowadays) but it's great to get a sense of how the game runs, as well as for newer players to learn the game as they go. But if anyone is interested in playing, the "looking for players" post is here: http://www.unseenservant.us/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=8906
I'll come back and post a link to the game, once it gets set up, for folks to peruse. Unseen Servant is a basic forum format, so pretty easy to check things out. :)
Be well everyone!
--Ron--
Quote from: rredmond;1105930It looks like we have a OSE PbP game starting on Unseen Servant. DM is looking to do a short, Halloween, play by post. Might be worth it to lurk (while it's going on) or a read (when it's done) to get a sense of how it plays. Some folks don't like the pacing of PbP (the slow pace is what draws me, due to scheduling ridiculousness, nowadays) but it's great to get a sense of how the game runs, as well as for newer players to learn the game as they go. But if anyone is interested in playing, the "looking for players" post is here: http://www.unseenservant.us/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=8906
I'll come back and post a link to the game, once it gets set up, for folks to peruse. Unseen Servant is a basic forum format, so pretty easy to check things out. :)
Be well everyone!
--Ron--
I happen to be the GM on that. :D
So far I've got three potential players interested. Once I've got 4 I'll set up the game. I'm throwing in the Advanced Fantasy and Dolmenwood character options. This is an old Labyrinth Lord adventure with a slight Dolmenwood re-skin so I can get a feel for the campaign setting before committing further.
I've run a couple Labyrinth Lord adventures in the past using PbP, and it's worked quite well, even though we ran at a very casual pace. I also learned the valuable lesson to always do side-based initiative in PbP games (winning side goes first, players post actions in any order). I'm expecting that OSE should be about the same.