I was a big fan of oWoD. I skipped right over nWoD because, frankly, I didn't want to have to buy massive amounts of new books all over again. Now, however, I'm thinking of at least reading through a good part of it if not getting into some games outright.
Any recommendations for books, or lines, I should peruse? I was into Vampire, Wraith, and Mage before (in roughly that order). What game core books should I check out - are Vampire, Mage and !Wraith-Equivalent in nWoD worth reading? Are any others? And what supplements should I bother with?
Of course, the flip side would be: What lines or books should I ignore altogether? What's the bottom of the barrel for the nWoD lines?
From what I understand the Promethean the Created is a very good book. I rather liked the Core book, but didn't care for any of the settings/monster divisions that I read (Werewolf, Vampire), but people have repeatedly recommended Promethean. I've also heard good things of the Changeling book.
Quote from: Géza Echs;711291What game core books should I check out - are Vampire, Mage and !Wraith-Equivalent in nWoD worth reading?
With
Vampire: The Requiem, you might want to wait until
Blood & Smoke: The Strix Chronicle comes out before making any decisions, since that'll effectively be "
Requiem Revised" with the basic rules bundled into the same book. The core for
Mage: The Awakening is considered something of a dull slog to read but said to improve with supplements. There's no nWoD
Wraith as such: even
Geist: The Sin-Eaters is actually about people who've been resurrected after agreeing to take along weird über-ghosts to the lands of the living, making it somewhat similar to the old
Mummy: The Resurrection. (The new
Mummy: The Curse technically introduces the possibility of playing a "lucid ghost", though.)
Changeling: The Lost was the dark horse of the nWoD lines, turning out to be surprisingly popular, and remains my personal favourite.
The 13th Precinct book for Mortals is pretty good. I ran a grimy cops'n'crooks game with it and the information was damn handy.
The best "lines" in nWoD are Hunter the Vigil and Changeling the Lost.
The main three lines get bloated fast and there is a fair few misses in their books. Promethean is good if a little obscure. Geist is great but consists of a line of just two books. Mummy has mixed reaction. Demon looks good, but isn't out yet,
Actually, that raises a secondary question: How versatile is the straight World of Darkness line for gaming? I know there's quite a few books for the plain "no monster PCs here" WoD line - I had no idea how many until I heard of Slashers (or whatever its called). Potentially, it could be the best of all of them. How is it? Any other recommendations thus far?
Thanks so far everyone. I'm a bit annoyed to hear that there was bloat in the 'main' lines, and even more annoyed that there's an all-but-in-name nVampire revised coming out. I'm glad that setting books improve the Mage line. And I'm shocked that Promethean is the leading recommendation (with Changeling coming second!). I'll make a point to check those two lines out first.
Are there any books that I should skip quickly over? Any true dogs in the nWoD grouping, from any of the lines?
I am a huge nWoD fanboy. Mostly because I usually ran low-key and small-scope games, compared to the general gonzo zaniness of stuff like Chaos Factor or Transylvania Chronicles or Time of Thin Blood, so the nWoD changes were a great fit for my playstyle.
For all big three (Vampire, Werewolf and Mage) I've come to prefer the nWoD versions for these reasons. Changeling: the Lost and Hunter: the Vigil are very different from, and in my opinion, far, far superior to their oWoD counterparts; but then I was lukewarm on Dreaming and frankly disliked Reckoning. I am not familiar with Promethean, Geist, Mummy or Demon. I hear Promethean is kick-ass.
Last, but certainly not least, the "mortals" game was my favorite game to run with the oWoD, and nWoD has a lot of "core" supplements to support it, though arguably it's morphed into the (also excellent) Hunter: the Vigil line.
Hard to pick favorites, but if I had to choose it would be Hunter: the Vigil. If you do get H:tV, do not pass the opportunity to pick up World of Darkness: Slasher, and Block By Bloody Block.
For V:tR, Damnation City, Danse Macabre and let's keep an eye out for the Strix Chronicle.
For W:tF, Territories, Predators, War Against The Pure and the utterly kick-ass Night Horrors: Wolfsbane (second best entry in the Night Horrors series).
For M:tA, Tome of the Mysteries (a.k.a. core rulebook II) and Intruders: Encounters with the Abyss. Plus Seers of the Throne, and/or Summoners, and/or Astral Realms, and/or Banishers... Boston Unveiled is surprisingly good too... like you've heard the core game is a tough read and it really comes alive in the supplements.
For C:tL, fucking everything, but especially Night Horrors: Grim Fears. What an amazing book.
Have fun! Let us know what you like and whether you'll run any of it.
Promethean is great. I love that game.
Quote from: Géza Echs;711314Actually, that raises a secondary question: How versatile is the straight World of Darkness line for gaming? I know there's quite a few books for the plain "no monster PCs here" WoD line - I had no idea how many until I heard of Slashers (or whatever its called). Potentially, it could be the best of all of them. How is it? Any other recommendations thus far?
Pretty damn versatile. Good for shit-your-pants investigative horror. The actual "core/mortals" line is all but dead nowadays, actually; there are some great early books (off the top of my head: Ghost Stories, Mysterious Places, Precinct, Asylum, Immortals, Inferno; also Armory and Armory Reloaded for combat bunnies and Book of Spirits is a very handy supplement for a Mage or Werewolf game. Antagonists used to be mandatory but if you're getting Hunter: the Vigil there's a build-a-monster system in there, not to mention the other game lines).
The last few great releases under the World of Darkness "core" line, have been more or less explicitly aimed at one of the game lines. Slasher is clearly written with Hunter: the Vigil in mind, and Book of the Dead, while strongly Geist-centric, has lots of good stuff for a Mage game too.
Quote from: Géza Echs;711314Are there any books that I should skip quickly over? Any true dogs in the nWoD grouping, from any of the lines?
I found the V:tR and M:tA entries to the Night Horrors series (a series of books with individual antagonists detailed) rather uninspired. Also much of the early V:tR stuff .
Quote from: The Butcher;711315I am a huge nWoD fanboy. Mostly because I usually ran low-key and small-scope games, compared to the general gonzo zaniness of stuff like Chaos Factor or Transylvania Chronicles or Time of Thin Blood, so the nWoD changes were a great fit for my play style.
I loved
reading all the gonzo zaniness... But I enjoyed
playing in the smaller-scope games. :)
QuoteFor all big three (Vampire, Werewolf and Mage) I've come to prefer the nWoD versions for these reasons. Changeling: the Lost and Hunter: the Vigil are very different from, and in my opinion, far, far superior to their oWoD counterparts; but then I was lukewarm on Dreaming and frankly disliked Reckoning. I am not familiar with Promethean, Geist, Mummy or Demon. I hear Promethean is kick-ass.
Huh. I
hated the oWoD version of
Hunter but really enjoyed
Changeling. The Big Three are what I was tempted to look at first, since they're what I followed fairly extensively in the oWoD era (though, to be honest, I only dipped my toe into
Werewolf. It never gelled for me, somehow).
QuoteLast, but certainly not least, the "mortals" game was my favorite game to run with the oWoD, and nWoD has a lot of "core" supplements to support it, though arguably it's morphed into the (also excellent) Hunter: the Vigil line.
Hard to pick favorites, but if I had to choose it would be Hunter: the Vigil. If you do get H:tV, do not pass the opportunity to pick up World of Darkness: Slasher, and Block By Bloody Block.
Huh. As I just mentioned, the 'mortals' aspect is something I'm intrigued by (though I'm a bit gun-shy now that you've said it blends into the new version of
Hunter). What's
Block by Bloody Block? A spin-off from
Slasher (which did look cool to my eyes)?
QuoteFor V:tR, Damnation City, Danse Macabre and let's keep an eye out for the Strix Chronicle.
Are any of the... what're they called, covenant? Let's call them covenants. Are any of the covenant books worthwhile? Fuck it, are any of the
clan books worthwhile?
QuoteFor W:tF, Territories, Predators, War Against The Pure and the utterly kick-ass Night Horrors: Wolfsbane (second best entry in the Night Horrors series).
Cool. What's the
Night Horrors series?
QuoteFor M:tA, Tome of the Mysteries (a.k.a. core rulebook II) and Intruders: Encounters with the Abyss. Plus Seers of the Throne, and/or Summoners, and/or Astral Realms, and/or Banishers... Boston Unveiled is surprisingly good too... like you've heard the core game is a tough read and it really comes alive in the supplements.
Should I even bother with reading the core book first? Or dive right in with
Tome of the Mysteries and refer to the core book as needed?
QuoteFor C:tL, fucking everything, but especially Night Horrors: Grim Fears. What an amazing book.
Nice. I'll make sure to put a lot of emphasis on
Changeling, then.
QuoteHave fun! Let us know what you like and whether you'll run any of it.
I will! Though I likely won't be able to run anything - or even play in anything for that matter (still haven't found a gaming group here in Tampa, despite haunting a few stores for Netrunner tournaments and the like).
That raises a good point - you seem to be suggesting books on the basis of their utility for gaming (and pure entertainment value as well, of course). Are there any books you'd recommend on the basis of
reading pleasure alone? Since I likely won't be able to game any time soon, I'm tempted to prioritize on the basis of what's simply fun to read.
And, as I've said, if there's anything you can recommend me away from, I'd appreciate it. I'd prefer not to waste time!
Quote from: Géza Echs;711314Actually, that raises a secondary question: How versatile is the straight World of Darkness line for gaming? I know there's quite a few books for the plain "no monster PCs here" WoD line - I had no idea how many until I heard of Slashers (or whatever its called). Potentially, it could be the best of all of them. How is it? Any other recommendations thus far?
The mortals only line morphed into Hunter the Vigil, and Slashers (whilst pitched and dressed as a mortal line book) actually was written for HtV.
The mortal line and HtV are superb. HtV has a supplement for each monster type (Vampire, Mages, Werewolves (and spirits)) with a shorthand system for all three which is superior in some ways to the full system :) As such, with HtV alone, you can do all of the three main lines as well in a much simpler yet darker light.
Quote from: Géza Echs;711320Huh. I hated the oWoD version of Hunter but really enjoyed Changeling.
Hunter the Reckoning is nothing like Hunter the Vigil. The former is almost superheroic Buffy the Vampire Slayer. The later is more Fringe or Supernatural at brightest and usually much grimmer.
Quote from: Géza Echs;711320Huh. As I just mentioned, the 'mortals' aspect is something I'm intrigued by (though I'm a bit gun-shy now that you've said it blends into the new version of Hunter). What's Block by Bloody Block? A spin-off from Slasher (which did look cool to my eyes)?
Block by Bloody Block is a book on creating neighbourhoods, nominally for Hunter the Vigil.
Quote from: Géza Echs;711320Cool. What's the Night Horrors series?
Its a series of antagonist books.
Quote from: Skywalker;711331Hunter the Reckoning is nothing like Hunter the Vigil. The former is almost superheroic Buffy the Vampire Slayer. The later is more Fringe or Supernatural at brightest and usually much grimmer.
That is, the nWoD hunters are by default just mortals who've learned to adapt their Willpower and professional skills to dealing with the supernatural, not a special splat in the same sense as for example vampires or werewolves. While the top-tier hunter organizations, the Conspiracies which basically range from the Inquisition to the Men in Black, have access to a variety of mystic resources and weird science, the characters themselves aren't fundamentally different from any other human beings.
Note that
HtV uses simplified mechanics for supernatural beings, designed to make them suitable opponents for mortals and often scaling them down accordingly. As the result, it doesn't always "play well with others" where the rest of the lines are concerned.
(For instance, the changeling leader from
BbBB is weaker than a starting
CtL PC.)
Quote from: The Yann Waters;711335As the result, it doesn't always "play well with others" where the rest of the lines are concerned.
Very true. They are brought in line with each other.
Then again, none of the nWoD lines play particularly nicely with others anyway :)
I did not like the nWoD Werewolf compared to the original. There was something raw and vital that I feel got neutered, but I never went beyond the core book for nWoD's Werewolf.
But I really enjoyed the nWoD Mage incredibly more than the original. It was really impressive in actual play, but our campaign only lasted about a year and I didn't follow the line too much afterwards.
I am surprised about the love for Promethean. The book didn't grab me at all, but I keep hearing that people seem to love it in actual play.
Quote from: Spinachcat;711345I am surprised about the love for Promethean. The book didn't grab me at all, but I keep hearing that people seem to love it in actual play.
Promethean reminds with a lot of Wraith, despite dealing with different supernatural types. Well executed and very evocative, but quite an odd concept from a gaming perspective.
Quote from: Skywalker;711338Very true. They are brought in line with each other.
Then again, none of the nWoD lines play particularly nicely with others anyway :)
Better than the oWoD lines, though, if only because of the more standardized template interaction. By the way, an upcoming
HtV supplement called
Mortal Remains will cover in greater detail the creatures featured in the remaining lines, with each one getting its own chapter:
Promethean,
Changeling,
Geist,
Mummy, and
Demon.
Quote from: The Yann Waters;711354Better than the oWoD lines, though, if only because of the more standardized template interaction. By the way, an upcoming HtV supplement called Mortal Remains will cover in greater detail the creatures featured in the remaining lines, with each one getting its own chapter: Promethean, Changeling, Geist, Mummy, and Demon.
Yeah. I doubt they will have rules for playable versions of those at a page count of 200, but the book will be awesome.
Quote from: Géza Echs;711320I loved reading all the gonzo zaniness... But I enjoyed playing in the smaller-scope games. :)
Didn't we all? ;)
I had fun with a few gonzo games, though. Not the modules, most of which were shitty railroads. But you haven't lived if you haven't played an over-the-top True Black Hand Elders game complete with half the group being TBH and the other half beholden to other factions and a lot of subdued PvP until something really, really bad comes along and everyone has to get their shit together. Good times.
Quote from: Géza Echs;711320Huh. I hated the oWoD version of Hunter but really enjoyed Changeling. The Big Three are what I was tempted to look at first, since they're what I followed fairly extensively in the oWoD era (though, to be honest, I only dipped my toe into Werewolf. It never gelled for me, somehow).
One of my homies was a huge Dreaming fan and even he recognizes that Lost is a better (or at least, easier) game. Generally speaking, Lost is far more horrific and urgent than Dreaming.
Quote from: Géza Echs;711320Huh. As I just mentioned, the 'mortals' aspect is something I'm intrigued by (though I'm a bit gun-shy now that you've said it blends into the new version of Hunter). What's Block by Bloody Block? A spin-off from Slasher (which did look cool to my eyes)?
Block By Bloody Block is a generic, modular, sandboxy city sourcebook (which should be easy enough to graft, with minimal modification, on any city you're using for your game) for Hunter: The Vigil. Each chapter describes a city district (e.g. housing projects, university campus, affluent suburb, etc.) and at least one supernatural threat for each district (e.g. the werewolf pack that runs the slums but also keeps spirits in check; the demon-possessed janitor in the university and the professor he keeps in thrall; the slasher who leads a cult in the upper-middle-class suburb, and this was a few years before this crappy series with Kevin Bacon and James Purefoy).
Quote from: Géza Echs;711320Are any of the... what're they called, covenant? Let's call them covenants. Are any of the covenant books worthwhile? Fuck it, are any of the clan books worthwhile?
Ummm, not sure. The Covenant Books are nice but none of them stands out to me as a must-have. Except maybe VII, which takes the super-mysterious not-Sabbat of V:tR and gives you not one, not two, but three different possibilities of what to do with them. Belial's Brood is also nice if you want vampire Satanists in your game (and who doesn't?).
As for the Clanbooks, they're mostly fluff. Decent fluff, a few good ideas, but not nearly as interesting and game-relevant as the V:tM Clanbooks.
Quote from: Géza Echs;711320Cool. What's the Night Horrors series?
A series of books (one for each line, except V:tR which got two) detailing individual NPC antagonists with unique backstories and abilities.
Quote from: Géza Echs;711320Should I even bother with reading the core book first? Or dive right in with Tome of the Mysteries and refer to the core book as needed?
TotM does a good job of clearing up the confusing stuff from the core rulebook. But you have to read the core book and get confused in the first place. ;)
Quote from: Géza Echs;711320That raises a good point - you seem to be suggesting books on the basis of their utility for gaming (and pure entertainment value as well, of course). Are there any books you'd recommend on the basis of reading pleasure alone? Since I likely won't be able to game any time soon, I'm tempted to prioritize on the basis of what's simply fun to read.
And, as I've said, if there's anything you can recommend me away from, I'd appreciate it. I'd prefer not to waste time!
Ummm, never looked at it this way. Nothing as trepidating as the oWoD, I'm afraid. I did enjoy reading M:tA and C:tL books because they do a very good job of conveying wonder and horror; I'd recommend Intruders, Astral Realms and Summoners, and maybe Seers of the Throne and Imperial Mysteries too, for Mage; and everything, but especially the first sourcebook (Winter Masques? The one with all the antagonists) and Night Horrors: Grim Fears for Changeling. War Against The Pure was a fun read too.
On a side note, I'm happy that we're haviung a nWoD thread. They're all to rare here, and even on TBP and G+ for that matter.
I'm even happier to see the Changeling and Hunter love. These are my favorite lines, really, even though I'm a sucker for the Big Three.
Quote from: Skywalker;711327The mortal line and HtV are superb. HtV has a supplement for each monster type (Vampire, Mages, Werewolves (and spirits)) with a shorthand system for all three which is superior in some ways to the full system :) As such, with HtV alone, you can do all of the three main lines as well in a much simpler yet darker light.
Yes! Also, H:tV plus the relevant monster book (e.g. Witch Hunters for M:tAw) makes for a great antagonists book. When I finally sit down to run M:tAw I am
so using the Knights of Saint George.
Quote from: Spinachcat;711345I did not like the nWoD Werewolf compared to the original. There was something raw and vital that I feel got neutered, but I never went beyond the core book for nWoD's Werewolf.
But I really enjoyed the nWoD Mage incredibly more than the original. It was really impressive in actual play, but our campaign only lasted about a year and I didn't follow the line too much afterwards.
I am surprised about the love for Promethean. The book didn't grab me at all, but I keep hearing that people seem to love it in actual play.
I think doing away with the cosmic conflict might lend the impression that the apocalyptic urgency is gone and substituted by a lingering, fatalistic malaise. Still, I like the renewed focus on terriotorial conflict, patrolling your turf, and protecting common people from supernatural horrors even when your own life sucks and it's probably going to be nasty, brutal and pretty damn short. Also, if you need a world-threatening scenario, Night Horrors: Wolfsbane has you covered with the Idigam.
As for Mage, well, the solipsistic "magick" world-view was pretty awesome and mind-blowing when I was 16, and I still think Ascension is a kick-ass game, but I find Awakening a subtler take on many of the same themes (though hubris takes front and center, the freedom vs. control thing is there too. Hell, I've even read a campaign log in which PCs travelled to an alternate reality in which the Nameless War went differently, with the Free Council and the Seers merging to form something very much like the Technocracy).
I started reading the new Vampire today, but I might have to start off with something else. The tone of it is just a bit too much for me - especially the repeated focus on Danse Macabre (which is a cool idea but a very, very over the top term). Plus, I'm so used to the old VtM that it's giving me a cognitive dissonance headache.
That being said, I do like that they've moved away from the Gothic punk idea and into a world that feels... Darker, somehow. There's an air of desperation to the setting that I like.
Quote from: The Butcher;711414I did enjoy reading M:tA and C:tL books because they do a very good job of conveying wonder and horror; I'd recommend Intruders, Astral Realms and Summoners, and maybe Seers of the Throne and Imperial Mysteries too, for Mage; and everything, but especially the first sourcebook (Winter Masques? The one with all the antagonists) and Night Horrors: Grim Fears for Changeling.
The first supplement for
Changeling, that antagonist book, was
Autumn Nightmares which features the more detailed rules for fetches, hobgoblins, and True Fae, along with dozens of NPCs (including changelings, mortals, and one vampire). The initial four supplements actually follow the seasons, so it was followed by
Winter Masques (about the seemings and kiths, as well as internationality and multiculturalism among the fae),
Rites of Spring (which expands on the various supernatural powers of the changelings, as well as pertinent concepts like Clarity, Glamour, and cold iron), and
Lords of Summer (a "splat book" with information about the Seasonal Courts and the largest selection of entitlements in the line, but also a chapter on freeholds in general).
RoS is the one I'd usually recommend for a first supplement because its mechanics and clarifications make quite a difference in playing the game, but that might not be the best choice for
reading.
Quote from: Silverlion;711296From what I understand the Promethean the Created is a very good book. I rather liked the Core book, but didn't care for any of the settings/monster divisions that I read (Werewolf, Vampire), but people have repeatedly recommended Promethean. I've also heard good things of the Changeling book.
I have Promethean. It is the one system that seems to have an end game in mind that makes you sympathetic to prometheans as cursed monsters.
I haven't run it yet. Id probably tone done the "wasteland" effect, and maybe have the PCs all pic the same species group. The different types of Promethean don't really mesh with each other well.
The enemies of the Prometheans, plus the overall tone reminds me of the original first several issues of Swamp Thing, or the old "House of Secrets" type horror comic books.
As a complete game, tone, etc - its my favorite of the nWOD.
Quote from: The Butcher;711416On a side note, I'm happy that we're haviung a nWoD thread. They're all to rare here, and even on TBP and G+ for that matter.
I'm even happier to see the Changeling and Hunter love. These are my favorite lines, really, even though I'm a sucker for the Big Three.
I echo all of this. I have a strong love for Geist too, which has the mood of Wraith and Promethean but seems much more playable. Unfortunately, it lacks the support of Changeling and Hunter.
Also, Demon looks pretty awesome too. I really liked the ideas in God Machine Chronicle and the idea of using GMC and Demon for a Hunter the Vigil game has me all a tingle :)
Quote from: Lynn;711458I have Promethean. It is the one system that seems to have an end game in mind that makes you sympathetic to prometheans as cursed monsters.
I snagged the
Promethean PDF a couple of weeks ago when Drivethru was handing it out as a scavenger hunt freebie, but haven't done anything with it, at least yet.
I really enjoyed reading my copy of H:tV. I've ran one session of the vanilla nWoD, but it seemed cool. Finally, my WoD buddies on Facebook all rave about Mage.
Being a Mage fangirl I recommend Mage even though the corebook is a slog the suppliments really improve it. Also the blue books are stellar.
For me, Changeling the Lost is easily the best rpg White Wolf has ever published. I also think Vampire the Requiem is very good. Werewolf and Mage are crap. I am unfamiliar with the rest of their new stuff.
Is there an overarching sense of metaplot through - or even between - the game lines? The metaplot was both the best and the worst thing of oWoD; I'm curious as to whether or not they fine-tuned the concept for nWoD at all.
Quote from: Géza Echs;711599Is there an overarching sense of metaplot through - or even between - the game lines? The metaplot was both the best and the worst thing of oWoD; I'm curious as to whether or not they fine-tuned the concept for nWoD at all.
There's none.
Quote from: Skywalker;711600There's none.
Interesting! So do they approach it in a Harn-esque "all games begin at X arbitrary point in the setting; where you go from there is up to you" style?
Quote from: Géza Echs;711601Interesting! So do they approach it in a Harn-esque "all games begin at X arbitrary point in the setting; where you go from there is up to you" style?
The setting detail is less cohesive than oWoD, so it's all there to hang off your campaign, rather than as a place to put your campaign in.
Quote from: Géza Echs;711314Actually, that raises a secondary question: How versatile is the straight World of Darkness line for gaming?
Once you fix the silly business of weapons and armour adding dice to your combat pools (rather than being factored in afterwards) and simplify damage ratings for weapons (to 1-3L or 1-6B for all), it gets a lot better.
nWoD is a very versatile system, especially away from horror. We've had extremely good mileage with a Mass Effect hack (http://wiki.rpg.net/index.php/Mass:_the_Effecting) for it.
Quote from: Kiero;711604Once you fix the silly business of weapons and armour adding dice to your combat pools (rather than being factored in afterwards) and simplify damage ratings for weapons (to 1-3L or 1-6B for all), it gets a lot better.
nWoD is a very versatile system, especially away from horror. We've had extremely good mileage with a Mass Effect hack (http://wiki.rpg.net/index.php/Mass:_the_Effecting) for it.
Oh yeah, I fixed that too. I factor them afterwards too. To be honest, I preferred the oWoD system. :o
I'm seriously considering a Solomon Kane-ish swashbuckling monster hunter game using nWoD.
Quote from: Skywalker;711602The setting detail is less cohesive than oWoD, so it's all there to hang off your campaign, rather than as a place to put your campaign in.
In contrast to the old metaplot, the nWoD books adopted a "toolbox" approach where the GMs were encouraged to pick and choose the supplementary material to suit their own campaigns. One consequence of this is that the supplements have typically tended to refer back only to the cores, not each other, and sometimes reprint any necessary earlier information in sidebars instead. For example, an NPC from Supplement B won't be statted out with powers from Supplement A, and a piece of background lore from Supplement C won't explicitly build up on events already mentioned in Supplement B.
However, in some cases you can speculate at what "the bigger picture" adds up to, while reading for instance the
Vampire clan books, and the various fiction snippets from the
Changeling line often feature a recurring cast of characters from the Miami freehold.
Hmm. I would have hoped that the approach they took wasn't totally that of a toolbox. I like the idea of having at least a partially unified vision of the WoD; even if it isn't the top-heavy metaplot of the oWoD I'd like the nWoD to have at least a minor vision of how the setting is constructed and how it operates. Like I said, the Harn-esque way of doing things - give the GMs a detailed map of the world at a particular point, then leave the ways it develops from there up to them.
On another note, I started reading HtV last night. Didn't get very far, since it was quite late, but I like it already. In fact, it seems like it might be exactly what I wanted HtR to be. If it is, that's fantastic; I almost broke from oWoD entirely over the letdown I felt at having HtR be all about yet another supernatural faction rather than humans taking back the night.
I think I'm going to read through HtV and its recommended supplements first. Is there a particular order to the supplements that I should use (like, release date, or quality, or what-have-you)? Or can I just dive into the ones that immediately catch my interest - like Slashers or Block by Bloody Block?
Man, I wish I knew a group of RPG players down here. Everybody I meet only plays CCGs or LCGs (which is cool, don't mistake me). I've got the itch to play some WoD, but all the RPG players I know are three-thousand miles away.
Quote from: Géza Echs;711758I think I'm going to read through HtV and its recommended supplements first. Is there a particular order to the supplements that I should use (like, release date, or quality, or what-have-you)? Or can I just dive into the ones that immediately catch my interest - like Slashers or Block by Bloody Block?
I would dive into what interests you as they are all chunky and cool.
IIRC the Mage one is good and the Werewolf one less so.
Quote from: Géza Echs;711758Man, I wish I knew a group of RPG players down here. Everybody I meet only plays CCGs or LCGs (which is cool, don't mistake me). I've got the itch to play some WoD, but all the RPG players I know are three-thousand miles away.
Define "down here"?
Also you might check G+. It has an openness to it that when combined with the search ability makes it eqsy to find people to ask.
Quote from: mcbobbo;711763Define "down here"?
Tampa, Florida. I moved here from Winnipeg, Canada about a year and a half ago to get married.
QuoteAlso you might check G+. It has an openness to it that when combined with the search ability makes it eqsy to find people to ask.
That's not a bad idea. I've been ghosting Reddit for gamer meet-ups (there's been a few - I haven't had time to attend, sadly), but now that I'm back on G+ (kind of mandatory after I bought a Nexus 7 tablet) I should check there too.
All this talk and no mention of the God Machine books? For shame.
God Machine Chronicle is a blue book - i.e. one for normal mortals - which updates the setting and the mechanical system. The setting update does provide a kind of vague plot and antagonist, in dealing with the God Machine itself, an alien and mechanical entity that fiddles with the world for unknowable reasons. The mechanic updates change a number of factors to the game, including merits and flaws, morality and weapons.
Forthcoming books for Vampire, Werewolf and Mage are supposed to provide similar kind of vague plot and antagonist. For example, in Vampire is it the Strix Chronicle, about spirit owl creatures which like to fuck with vampires.
In any case, the God Machine Chronicle is a solid book and worth checking out.
Quote from: Géza Echs;711758I like the idea of having at least a partially unified vision of the WoD; even if it isn't the top-heavy metaplot of the oWoD I'd like the nWoD to have at least a minor vision of how the setting is constructed and how it operates.
Well, the cosmology of the setting fits together relatively neatly, although that too explicitly leaves many details up to the GM's discretion, and there aren't even supposed to be clearly spelled-out objective answers to everything. Especially
Mage fans seem keen on speculating about a Grand Unified Theory of WoD, of course with the mages at the top.
Quote from: GrumpyReviews;711821All this talk and no mention of the God Machine books? For shame.
God Machine Chronicle is a blue book - i.e. one for normal mortals - which updates the setting and the mechanical system. The setting update does provide a kind of vague plot and antagonist, in dealing with the God Machine itself, an alien and mechanical entity that fiddles with the world for unknowable reasons. The mechanic updates change a number of factors to the game, including merits and flaws, morality and weapons.
Forthcoming books for Vampire, Werewolf and Mage are supposed to provide similar kind of vague plot and antagonist. For example, in Vampire is it the Strix Chronicle, about spirit owl creatures which like to fuck with vampires.
In any case, the God Machine Chronicle is a solid book and worth checking out.
If you like God-Machine, try Demon: The Descent. You can download a copy of the rules off the Kickstarter page, and I played in a demo run by the developer at GenCon. It's basically fallen servants of the God Machine playing The Invisibles. It's strange, and easy to blow off at first, but if you actually play it, it's incredible.
I like the God Machine mythology because it provides a solid source of cosmic, inhuman horror without ever going near HP Lovecraft territory.
Quote from: The Butcher;711607Oh yeah, I fixed that too. I factor them afterwards too. To be honest, I preferred the oWoD system. :o
I'm seriously considering a Solomon Kane-ish swashbuckling monster hunter game using nWoD.
I didn't prefer the oWoD system (one of the worst I've ever played), but it seems anyone who's spent any time with nWoD made that change.
Quote from: GrumpyReviews;711821All this talk and no mention of the God Machine books? For shame.
God Machine Chronicle is a blue book - i.e. one for normal mortals - which updates the setting and the mechanical system. The setting update does provide a kind of vague plot and antagonist, in dealing with the God Machine itself, an alien and mechanical entity that fiddles with the world for unknowable reasons. The mechanic updates change a number of factors to the game, including merits and flaws, morality and weapons.
Forthcoming books for Vampire, Werewolf and Mage are supposed to provide similar kind of vague plot and antagonist. For example, in Vampire is it the Strix Chronicle, about spirit owl creatures which like to fuck with vampires.
In any case, the God Machine Chronicle is a solid book and worth checking out.
Sorry, but GMC looks pretty much worthless from my perspective. I couldn't care less about the setting/plot of nWoD and the mechanics changes feature one good thing we were already doing (factoring in weapons/armour after the roll) and a shit-load of pointless bloat.
Quote from: Kiero;711873I couldn't care less about the setting/plot of nWoD ...
Just to clarify, the GMC is not a nWoD metaplot book. Its a campaign toolkit for creating a series of adventures.
Quote from: Skywalker;711952Just to clarify, the GMC is not a nWoD metaplot book. Its a campaign toolkit for creating a series of adventures.
It is indeed a tool kit, but while not a full metaplot the God Machine itself does provide a singular focus and potential momentum to mortal games. Strix Chronicle will apparently do the same thing for V:tR.
True. But there is no indication that the GMC will be automatically incorporated into all future mortal nWoD releases. For example, the HtV book coming out soon looks likely to only refer to the GM via Demon. I doubt it will alter or be incorporated into the other antagonists. As such, its a campaign book and not a metaplot book in that it doesn't evolve the setting in a way that makes past books invalid or outdated.
Quote from: Skywalker;711987True. But there is no indication that the GMC will be automatically incorporated into all future mortal nWoD releases. For example, the HtV book coming out soon looks likely to only refer to the GM via Demon. I doubt it will alter or be incorporated into the other antagonists. As such, its a campaign book and not a metaplot book in that it doesn't evolve the setting in a way that makes past books invalid or outdated.
On the other hand, the revised rules from
GMC do apply to the future releases, and they feature the God-Machine's angels as the third type of ephemeral entities alongside ghosts and spirits which have been part of the mortal line from early on. So while they are easily ignored, I suspect that they may enjoy about the same sort of prominence in the general scheme of things as the Shadow does.
Quote from: The Yann Waters;711991On the other hand, the revised rules from GMC do apply to the future releases, and they feature the God-Machine's angels as the third type of ephemeral entities alongside ghosts and spirits which have been part of the mortal line from early on. So while they are easily ignored, I suspect that they may enjoy about the same sort of prominence in the general scheme of things as the Shadow does.
I agree. However, mechanical changes aren't metaplot though.
EDIT: Though I have to say that the attempt to add the patch to every nWoD product going forward is actually pretty annoying IMO, no matter its quality.
Quote from: Skywalker;712005Though I have to say that the attempt to add the patch to every nWoD product going forward is actually pretty annoying IMO, no matter its quality.
That's only for the new cores, though.
Blood & Smoke, and presumably the rest of the chronicle books as well, will include a less detailed version of the entire system with the changes incorporated straight into it. That would make these "revised editions" similar to the oWoD style of standalone RPGs for every line.