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Pen & Paper Roleplaying Central => Pen and Paper Roleplaying Games (RPGs) Discussion => Topic started by: Llew ap Hywel on September 19, 2017, 11:51:52 AM

Title: Numenera 2 KS has started
Post by: Llew ap Hywel on September 19, 2017, 11:51:52 AM
If your so inclined

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/montecookgames/numenera-2-discovery-and-destiny?ref=discovery

Already funded.
Title: Numenera 2 KS has started
Post by: Caesar Slaad on September 19, 2017, 06:22:24 PM
I was on board for the original and the setting expansion (which gave me a ton of material), but I'm not sure I'm on board for this one. I love the setting, but the Cypher system does nothing for me, and I don't think I'll ever get use out of the destiny campaign.
Title: Numenera 2 KS has started
Post by: Dumarest on September 19, 2017, 06:39:56 PM
I'm not even familiar with Numenera 1.
Title: Numenera 2 KS has started
Post by: artikid on September 19, 2017, 06:59:19 PM
I was going to support N2 the way I had done for N1. Then I noticed that the full page count for N2 is (including settings) around 800 pages...
I think I'll pass this time or get pdfs.
Title: Numenera 2 KS has started
Post by: Shawn Driscoll on September 19, 2017, 09:15:42 PM
More coffee table art books for the Monte Cook collectors.
Title: Numenera 2 KS has started
Post by: Abraxus on September 19, 2017, 09:45:45 PM
What is it with rpg companies and issuing a new edition every five to six years. Is there going to be a new edition of the Strange and Cypher system as well. I'm all for rpg companies making money give it at least ten years. Unless it's D&D I'm not going to invest in a new edition every five years.

I may not like all the mechanics yet Monte rpgs has some of the better art in them imo.
Title: Numenera 2 KS has started
Post by: Tait Ransom on September 19, 2017, 10:03:42 PM
I love the system, but it seems the prices are higher than I recall prior MCG Kickstarters.  $100 for all the pdfs? I'm thinking I'll pass - even with their track record of good stretch goals, this is too pricey for me.
Title: Numenera 2 KS has started
Post by: Xuc Xac on September 19, 2017, 10:11:52 PM
Quote from: sureshot;994088What is it with rpg companies and issuing a new edition every five to six years. Is there going to be a new edition of the Strange and Cypher system as well. I'm all for rpg companies making money give it at least ten years.

Yeah! Why can't they do it like they did in the old days and release an edition bit by bit over three years and then immediately (or concurrently) release another edition? 5 years (between AD&D2 revised and 3.0, and between 3.5 and 4th Ed) is the longest D&D has gone without an edition change, revision, or update. It's usually been 2 or 3 years.
Title: Numenera 2 KS has started
Post by: Baulderstone on September 19, 2017, 10:38:54 PM
Quote from: sureshot;994088What is it with rpg companies and issuing a new edition every five to six years. Is there going to be a new edition of the Strange and Cypher system as well. I'm all for rpg companies making money give it at least ten years. Unless it's D&D I'm not going to invest in a new edition every five years.

I may not like all the mechanics yet Monte rpgs has some of the better art in them imo.

It isn't a new edition. It is just a revised version. The Kickstarter makes it clear that anyone using the old core book will have no issues continuing to use their old book with new supplements.

The pricing on this seems iffy. If I put down $40 for the PDF version, and I still don't qualify for stretch goals, I don't see the point in going in on the kickstarter at all. I'd be better off waiting for it come out before I buy it.
Title: Numenera 2 KS has started
Post by: Brand55 on September 19, 2017, 11:09:11 PM
Quote from: Baulderstone;994101It isn't a new edition. It is just a revised version. The Kickstarter makes it clear that anyone using the old core book will have no issues continuing to use their old book with new supplements.
Yep. I was worried when I heard there was a new edition of Numenera coming out as I just picked up Predation a few weeks ago and it's only been on shelves about a month; if MCG was releasing a new version of the Cypher System already, I would not have been pleased. But it looks like the core Cypher System itself is remaining exactly the same and they're just revising some Numenera stuff and adding a bunch of new options.

I picked up The Strange but passed on Numenera after looking over a friend's book as the setting didn't wow me at all. The new stuff sounds good, but the pricing is a big deterrent for me. It doesn't help that there have been a bunch of good Kickstarters lately and even more on the way.
Title: Numenera 2 KS has started
Post by: trechriron on September 20, 2017, 12:59:20 AM
Quote from: sureshot;994088What is it with rpg companies and issuing a new edition every five to six years. Is there going to be a new edition of the Strange and Cypher system as well. I'm all for rpg companies making money give it at least ten years. Unless it's D&D I'm not going to invest in a new edition every five years. ...

From the KS page...

Quote from: Numenera KickstarterBut Numenera Discovery is not a new edition. We will make virtually no changes to the way the game plays mechanically--and none of those changes affect the way NPCs, creatures, or items like cyphers or artifacts work. We also won't be making changes to the setting. So if you already play Numenera, your bestiaries, adventures, card decks, character portfolios, and books like Into the Night, Technology Compendium, and Jade Colossus will not be affected by these changes. We will not issue any "second editions" of the existing supporting titles--and if you choose not to get Numenera Discovery, future Numenera supplements will work fine with your existing Numenera corebook. Your ongoing campaign will flow smoothly through the change in corebooks. You will even be able to mix existing characters with those from Numenera Discovery into your game. In fact, the game can be played with both the existing corebook and Numenera Discovery in use at the same game table!
Title: Numenera 2 KS has started
Post by: Mistwell on September 20, 2017, 01:16:08 AM
But Monte Cook said it was wrong to do a change like this, this soon after the initial release. That it's a sign of a money grab.

Remember these?

https://web.archive.org/web/20120430224053/http://www.montecook.com:80/arch_review26.html

https://web.archive.org/web/20040223201928/http://www.gamingreport.com:80/modules.php?op=modload&name=Sections&file=index&req=viewarticle&artid=66
Title: Numenera 2 KS has started
Post by: Baulderstone on September 20, 2017, 01:30:59 AM
Quote from: Mistwell;994155But Monte Cook said it was wrong to do a change like this, this soon after the initial release. That it's a sign of a money grab.

Remember these?

https://web.archive.org/web/20120430224053/http://www.montecook.com:80/arch_review26.html

https://web.archive.org/web/20040223201928/http://www.gamingreport.com:80/modules.php?op=modload&name=Sections&file=index&req=viewarticle&artid=66

Sure. And Monte Cook spells out clearly what he sees as the difference between a new edition and a revisions and how 3.5 is more than just a revision because of the compatibility issues it brings. If Numenera doesn't have compatibility issues, he isn't being hypocritical.

It can be done. Savage Worlds has been through four versions so far, and they are all easily compatible. If you stuck with the first version of the rules, you can still use the newest supplements just fine.
Title: Numenera 2 KS has started
Post by: dar on September 20, 2017, 02:38:00 AM
Savage Worlds. Call of Cthulhu. And probably others. GURPS before 4th comes to mind. It's not common with RPGs but it isn't strange.
Title: Numenera 2 KS has started
Post by: crkrueger on September 20, 2017, 03:00:44 AM
Quote from: Baulderstone;994161Sure. And Monte Cook spells out clearly what he sees as the difference between a new edition and a revisions and how 3.5 is more than just a revision because of the compatibility issues it brings. If Numenera doesn't have compatibility issues, he isn't being hypocritical.

It can be done. Savage Worlds has been through four versions so far, and they are all easily compatible. If you stuck with the first version of the rules, you can still use the newest supplements just fine.

Well, he also said that he was against the originally planned 3.5 that was supposed to be a compatible minor cleanup/revision - and here he is offering his own relatively soon after the first release.

It's an odd kickstarter.  Did they cut and paste the backer levels or are people getting the materials playtesters of the original corebook got, as opposed to playtesters of the new set?
He's screwing the pooch by not doing an "All-in pdf" level that's too good to pass up if he wants a bigass KS that won't cost him anything.
Title: Numenera 2 KS has started
Post by: Llew ap Hywel on September 20, 2017, 03:45:02 AM
Quote from: CRKrueger;994183Well, he also said that he was against the originally planned 3.5 that was supposed to be a compatible minor cleanup/revision - and here he is offering his own relatively soon after the first release.

It's an odd kickstarter.  Did they cut and paste the backer levels or are people getting the materials playtesters of the original corebook got, as opposed to playtesters of the new set?
He's screwing the pooch by not doing an "All-in pdf" level that's too good to pass up if he wants a bigass KS that won't cost him anything.

The all in PDF is $100 but it's still doesn't feel like value for money. Stretch goals so far seem aimed at physical products.
Title: Numenera 2 KS has started
Post by: Justin Alexander on September 20, 2017, 04:47:11 AM
The person running this website is a racist who publicly advocates genocidal practices.

I am deleting my content.

I recommend you do the same.
Title: Numenera 2 KS has started
Post by: crkrueger on September 20, 2017, 08:54:40 AM
Quote from: Justin Alexander;994204That's a very... selective reading of what he said.
Quote from: Monte CookEven before 3.0 went to the printer, the business team overseeing D&D was talking about 3.5. Not surprisingly, most of the designers -- particularly the actual 3.0 team (Jonathan Tweet, Skip Williams, and I) thought this was a poor idea. Also not surprisingly, our concerns were not enough to affect the plan. The idea, they assured us, was to make a revised edition that was nothing but a cleanup of any errata that might have been found after the book's release, a clarification of issues that seemed to confuse large numbers of players, and, most likely, all new art. It was slated to come out in 2004 or 2005, to give a boost to sales at a point where -- judging historically from the sales trends of previous editions -- they probably would be slumping a bit. It wasn't to replace everyone's books, and it wouldn't raise any compatibility or conversion issues.
So if by selective you mean considering all the ways in which the two are similar, guilty as charged I guess?

Quote from: Justin Alexander;994204And a very odd interpretation of what the new edition of Numenera is doing.
It wasn't planned from the get go and does include new content, but the point was, that in bringing it up as he was, Mistwell's argument wasn't as out of the ballpark as Baulderstone made it sound.

But, that criticism really only works against the Discovery corebook.  The Destiny book looks to be adding campaign/community/kingdom etc rules.
Title: Numenera 2 KS has started
Post by: Abraxus on September 20, 2017, 01:37:26 PM
It just feels like Numenera as a rpg has not been out for that long. If they want to go for a new edition and people will buy it good for them.  If it changes nothing or very little why not call it Numenera Revised instead. Like Hero system 5E and 5E revised was. I'm always leery when a game comes out as a new edition yet the dev of the rpg says nothing has changed. If the changes are so small why not simply release a sourcebook with the new changes.v
Title: Numenera 2 KS has started
Post by: Justin Alexander on September 21, 2017, 02:02:19 AM
The person running this website is a racist who publicly advocates genocidal practices.

I am deleting my content.

I recommend you do the same.
Title: Numenera 2 KS has started
Post by: RPGPundit on September 23, 2017, 03:53:00 AM
Zero interest.
Title: Numenera 2 KS has started
Post by: Alderaan Crumbs on September 23, 2017, 09:41:42 AM
Two of the biggest changes are in response to ooinions about the Jack and Glaive. Many feel the Jack is too much a cut n' paste of the Glaive and Nano, and that the Glaive is too weak and boring compared to the Nano. While neither bothered me, I can get behind the opinions. So, the Jack is going to get its own abilities and be unique, not a hybrid. The Glaive is going to be brought more in line with the power of the Nano getting epuc fighter stuff. Another complaint has been that the game's about exploring but you just fight. While I disagree, MCG is providing new abilities and rules to cover exploring, scavenging and building. These all sound very cool and I'm excited to see this!
Title: Numenera 2 KS has started
Post by: crkrueger on September 23, 2017, 03:01:53 PM
Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;995127Another complaint has been that the game's about exploring but you just fight. While I disagree, MCG is providing new abilities and rules to cover exploring, scavenging and building. These all sound very cool and I'm excited to see this!
I hope the scavenging stuff would include a bunch of tables and integrate with the building system somehow and not a "tell the GM what you've made" kind of thing.

Interesting to see newer more narrative games aren't immune to idiots claiming "but there's no mechanics for X so we can't do it".
Title: Numenera 2 KS has started
Post by: Dumarest on September 23, 2017, 03:43:20 PM
Quote from: RPGPundit;995078Zero interest.

That's still more interest than I have.
Title: Numenera 2 KS has started
Post by: Alderaan Crumbs on September 23, 2017, 05:48:19 PM
Quote from: CRKrueger;995193I hope the scavenging stuff would include a bunch of tables and integrate with the building system somehow and not a "tell the GM what you've made" kind of thing.

Interesting to see newer more narrative games aren't immune to idiots claiming "but there's no mechanics for X so we can't do it".

Oh, I agree. If it's just a set of "Uh, it does...um...this..." with no solid guidance, that'll be disappointing. Cypher's got a ton of great in it and N2 has a chance to make it really shine
Title: Numenera 2 KS has started
Post by: Voros on September 23, 2017, 05:54:29 PM
Quote from: Dumarest;995197That's still more interest than I have.

Yet as you would point out yourself you had enough interest to click on the thread and post about your disinterest. :p

I actually like The Strange more than Numenera myself.
Title: Numenera 2 KS has started
Post by: PencilBoy99 on September 23, 2017, 06:54:35 PM
I ran a Numenera campaign for a while. I thought the system was terrific (and it's only gotten better in subsequent iterations), and while Numenera was creative, it was way too crazy for me. Literally, anything could happen or be true at any point in time. At least in D&D 5e the default setting is limited Gonzo - the wizard you're fighting can cast spells, but your chair won't suddenly turn into a potato. But it might in the 9th world! I'm being silly, but the world was way to wacky to be useful to me.
Title: Numenera 2 KS has started
Post by: Manic Modron on September 23, 2017, 06:58:42 PM
Interest is like an electrical charge.  When yours is negative, you are actually attracted to the thing so you can be negative around it.
Title: Numenera 2 KS has started
Post by: Llew ap Hywel on September 23, 2017, 07:12:43 PM
Quote from: Manic Modron;995231Interest is like an electrical charge.  When yours is negative, you are actually attracted to the thing so you can be negative around it.

Its the badwrongfun equation. Your having fun I don't like which is wrong so it's bad.
Title: Numenera 2 KS has started
Post by: Alderaan Crumbs on September 23, 2017, 08:01:15 PM
Quote from: PencilBoy99;995229I ran a Numenera campaign for a while. I thought the system was terrific (and it's only gotten better in subsequent iterations), and while Numenera was creative, it was way too crazy for me. Literally, anything could happen or be true at any point in time. At least in D&D 5e the default setting is limited Gonzo - the wizard you're fighting can cast spells, but your chair won't suddenly turn into a potato. But it might in the 9th world! I'm being silly, but the world was way to wacky to be useful to me.

Much like people too often think WH40K being grimdark means everything is covered in shit-covered shit at midnight in acid rain while kicking blind puppies, I feel people too often think Numenera should mean that the Robo-cheese Digi-shaman flies around on an extra-dimensional creature's severed dick while firing nano-bees through time at the King of Glass Farts. :p

If that's your table's jam, go for it. I myself see Numenera as bizarre yet sensible. Weird doesn't mean goofy or plain nonsensical. I look to, say, Destiny and its fantastic lore as an example of what to aim for in Numenera.
Title: Numenera 2 KS has started
Post by: crkrueger on September 24, 2017, 02:34:41 AM
Quote from: HorusArisen;995233Its the badwrongfun equation. Your having fun I don't like which is wrong so it's bad.

Actually with Dumarest it's "Lack of Interest Signaling".  For some reason he has to tell us 4 times a day that he hasn't bought a gaming product in 30 years and will never buy another one. :D