Quote from: jhkim;1137472I still haven't watched the videos, so no comments directly on them.

But in my experience, the most annoying thing about this type of critique is that it often implies that the most problematic old material are the ones that feature the most non-white characters. Standard AD&D with almost no blacks or Asians is not called out, but Oriental Adventures is considered problematic for its portrayal of Asians. The implication of this is that if I'm an author, the best way to not be problematic is to only write about white people, and not have any Asians or blacks in my writing. That seems backwards to me.

I have some critiques of Oriental Adventures, but I think there should be recognition of the effort and interest that the authors put into including Asian culture.

You are so close to epiphany!

They are fucking racists, fucking segregationists, AND they have said out loud in multiple occasions you should only write about your own race (Pundits Arrows got criticism for not being written by someone from India).

You're either blissfully ignorant or disingenuous, and I don't see how can you not have encountered these arguments from them.

Actors should only play characters of their race, writers should only write about their own race, etc.

Of course this automatically makes you a racist for not including anything but white people. Catch 22.

So which is it jhkim? Blissful ignorance or disingenuous?

Quote from: Tyberious Funk;1137486To be fair, why would they?  It's much easier to generate clicks/downloads by saying something controversial and/or critical.  You'll get supporters rushing to have their existing views affirmed, and critics rushing to be outraged.  This thread is a perfect example... I have zero idea who these guys are, but they've now generated 18 pages of (mostly) outrage.  I dare say there is also plenty of activity on reddit, rpg.net and other places.  That's quite a lot of publicity for minimal effort.

That's true... I had thought that his little witter outburst would get the SJW mob moving. Generally, I ignore most of these muppets... It's only when they get a products banned or start taking censorship I get pissed.

I guess, on the other hand, if we don't mention anything about it, it confirms to others that they are doing the right thing. I'd say TBP are gushing over these guys.

Quote from: Opaopajr;1137483If you cannot befriend & coexist, at least metaphorically die in each other's arms.

Music to my ears!

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1137507You are so close to epiphany!

They are fucking racists, fucking segregationists, AND they have said out loud in multiple occasions you should only write about your own race (Pundits Arrows got criticism for not being written by someone from India).

You're either blissfully ignorant or disingenuous, and I don't see how can you not have encountered these arguments from them.

Actors should only play characters of their race, writers should only write about their own race, etc.

Of course this automatically makes you a racist for not including anything but white people. Catch 22.

So which is it jhkim? Blissful ignorance or disingenuous?

Did you read his post?

Quote from: rocksfalleverybodydies;1137476Now I remember where I saw that guy Kwan's name before:  He's part of Dundas Games.
I was interested in grabbing a hardcover of their upcoming PbtA Ross Rifles as I am a WW1 history nut.  Guess they just lost a sale from me.  Too bad as it looked interesting.

Why did he have to be a fellow Canuck with that book banning mentality?  Ah T.O. you never disappoint.

Judging by his portfolio, if i was into conspiracies, would guess his endgame is to get WOTC to dump the book, then elevator pitch them to be the lead on rewriting the setting book for 5e (using those elite 'sensitivity reading' skills) with help from his buddies.  Heh

Might not be far wrong.  Daniel Fox consulted with him on what to do about Tetsubo and Asian players and then shitcanned the project.

Quote from: MonsterSlayer;1137471I don't think geologists would agree with this. I think plate tectonics is the defining theory on the distinction. (hence the Himalayas boundary)  But I can sort of see your point except Europe and North Africa are not separated by that many miles of piddly water. And I do not see you claiming they are the same continent. France is a lot closer to Morocco than it is China and it is a lot easier to get to Africa from France than it is to get to China.

;-)
But let's not let that get in the way of a racist argument. *sarcasm*

Do you have to cross a land bridge to go from Europe to Asia? If you were an alien from outer space visiting the Earth for the first time, you would only count six continents, not seven. Europe and Asia would only be two ends of the same landmass. Europe and Asia are not two seperate continents, they are a part of one continent. Can you name any other two continents that are connected that way? North and South America are connected by a land bridge called central America. The land narrows all the way down to Panama before widening to make a seperate well defined continent of South America. To go from Eurasia to Africa by land, you need to cross over a land bridge called the Middle East, the only other two continents are Australia and Antarctica, they used to be connected together in a manner similar to Europe and Asia, back then, they would have been considered one continent if there were any humans around at the time.

The only reason we consider Europe and Asia to be seperate continents is because the humans living on them look different. Well in Africa the humans living south of the Sahara Desert look different from the humans living in North Africa, does that mean North Africa and Subsaharan Africa are different continents? Maybe North America ends at the border with Mexico too, as people start to look different as you travel south. Do we define continents by what people look like who live on them? That only seems to be the case with Europe and Asia, Africa is after all not two continents even though the people who live on different parts of it look different.

Geographically and Geologically, Europe and Asia are not continents, they are both part of Eurasia.  The only reason they are separated is because of the Greeks who defined them as different, due to Ethnic and Cultural differences.  There's nothing tectonically that separates Europe and Asia at the Urals.

I really hope that WotC announces a 5E version of Dark Sun and then decides to pulp all the books after Jeremy Crawford tearfully goes on the D&D podcast wearing rainbow-patterned sackcloth and announces how he and his colleagues so utterly failed the People of Colours Other than White community by including a sun that is dark, slavery, clearly white people in a world where everyone should be shades of brown or black, slavery, did I mention the sun was dark?, sorcerer kings based on white cultures who were in a position of privilege and superiority over everyone else, and, of course, dune traders who were clearly capitalists.

Also, Dark Sun elves are stereotyped as thieves, Dark Sun dwarves are stereotyped as having extreme OCD, Dark Sun halflings are cannibals etc... and, clearly, these are all blatant insults against Persons of Certain Colours. And the sun is dark: That says, right there, that black lives don't matter!

Poor Jeremy. He will be having a pink fit.

It might even trigger Erik Mona to post an editorial explaining why Paizo would never have a dark sun in one of their products, only a deity of child abuse....

Quote from: rocksfalleverybodydies;1137476Judging by his portfolio, if i was into conspiracies, would guess his endgame is to get WOTC to dump the book, then elevator pitch them to be the lead on rewriting the setting book for 5e (using those elite 'sensitivity reading' skills) with help from his buddies.  Heh

That is what several are doing. Declare something "verboten to the woke riech!" and then proprose "Mein Solution" ...

Quote from: Hakdov;1137490man, if they think OA is problematic...

[ATTACH=CONFIG]4631[/ATTACH]

Yeah. I know! This cover is demeaning to racists by presenting them as mindless cultists. Think of the poor racists!

Quote from: Shasarak;1137447Ah, the famous Davis clan.  Well known East Asian lineage.

You're a strange guy.

Quote from: jhkim;1137472I still haven't watched the videos, so no comments directly on them.

But in my experience, the most annoying thing about this type of critique is that it often implies that the most problematic old material are the ones that feature the most non-white characters. Standard AD&D with almost no blacks or Asians is not called out, but Oriental Adventures is considered problematic for its portrayal of Asians. The implication of this is that if I'm an author, the best way to not be problematic is to only write about white people, and not have any Asians or blacks in my writing. That seems backwards to me.

I have some critiques of Oriental Adventures, but I think there should be recognition of the effort and interest that the authors put into including Asian culture.

Good point. I also wish they didn't do this as essentially a Live Play of one of those 'Let's Read' thread from TBP.

One it is rambling and boring, two it encourages kneejerk responses instead of thoughful critique, particularly when it starts to feel like they're trying to top each other in terms of negativity, like a real-time dogpile.

Why not produce a 45 minute video review like Seth Skorkowsky? I guess they figure it takes less effort to just sound off with their friends online for 36 hours.

Regardless, so far I wouldn't say this has much real life momentum, seems restricted to a few Tweets online that got around 500 likes, probably from the same group who keep calling for Mearls' head, who WotC seems to be largely ignoring.

At the same time as we saw with the White Wolf nonsense it doesn't take much to spook a corporation into action if they think it will hurt their bottom line.

We laugh now, but wait till the soulless bastards come after Legend of the Five Rings.

Quote from: Rhiannon;1137560Regardless, so far I wouldn't say this has much real life momentum, seems restricted to a few Tweets online that got around 500 likes, probably from the same group who keep calling for Mearls' head, who WotC seems to be largely ignoring.

   It has spiked Oriental Adventures to #5 on DTRPG's list of hot AD&D 1E products, though, and #12 on the DM's Guild overall "Classic D&D" list.

Ironic as I really liked OA but could never convince anyone to play it back in the day. I'll grab the legit pdf now I think. It has a great cover too.