Quote from: Arkansan;1137029Imagine my shock. What is it with SJW's and weird sex stuff?

Wait a second, lets not be so hasty.

So, about this Honey and Hot Wax?

*frantically searches for old Oriental Adventurers hardbound...fails to find it*

"NOOOOOOO!!!" anakin-vader.mp3

Quote from: hedgehobbit;1137006It's a podcast of two people that are, to the surprise of no one, making a BDSM RPG called Honey and Hot Wax. Oh, and they, of course, were nominated for a 2019 Ennie award.

I bet they're also fans of Monte Cook's Guide to BDSM, erm... I mean Consent in Gaming guide (written by a woman who's into BDSM).

Wasn't there a similar drama with Deities and Demigods back in the day? Back when it was mad Christian right-wingers burning books instead of mad secular left-wingers. And most of them turned out to be sexually weird, too.

Henceforth, anyone choosing an evil alignment in games must also choose a sexual perversion. Lawful Evil, BDSM, you want to control them for your - er, their own benefit. Neutral Evil, strict onanism, you don't care about anyone else's pleasure. Chaotic Evil... use your imagination!

I don't remember thinking much of Oriental Adventures. It was part of the Unearthed Arcana thing - drifting in the power gamer currents that led to the stagnant lake of 2nd edition.

I never owned this one. I was always way more interested in horrible cliches and racial stereotypes concerning Europeans.

Maybe this will be the cause that unites Asia despite Nanking, the 38th parallel, the South China Sea, and all the other crap going on in the world that isn't a fantasy rpg book that is decades old.

What cliches and stereotypes would these be?

OA draws heavily from Japanese and Chinese myth and movies and presents them exactly as Japan and China oft do.

Let me guess. Japan and China are racist for depicting fantasy Japan and China?

It's racist to them because 1) white people wrote it.

That's it.

I'm fairly confident in their own eyes they couldn't do better given the point of their outrage has nothing to do with racism, but reflexive need to call out blasphemy wherever possible.

Well, when they want to take it out - we just put it back in. Fuck 'em!

Now, I just want to make an Oriental OSR game called Ninjas, Hookers and Hentai.

Quote from: Omega;1137052What cliches and stereotypes would these be?

OA draws heavily from Japanese and Chinese myth and movies and presents them exactly as Japan and China oft do.

Let me guess. Japan and China are racist for depicting fantasy Japan and China?

I don't support removing Oriental Adventures from sale, but this is wrong. I've seen a number of Japanese and Korean RPGs, and they are vastly different than OA in tone and portrayal. As for what the cliches are, I can give a few examples. Here is one:

QuoteHONOR

Power, wealth, and position--all these mean nothing to a character of the oriental world if he is without honor. Honor is a reflection of his character and the character of his family.
(...)
Oriental honor is different from the honor of a paladin or cavalier. It is not a judgement of good and evil. Characters with high honor are not necessarily good and those with low honor are not necessarily evil. A cruel villain can possess high honor and a heroic samurai, through unfortunate circumstances, might possess low honor. Honor is more a measure of the deeds accomplished by both the character and his family clan. It reflects obedience, loyalty, talent, and success, qualities that can be held by any character regardless of alignment.

None of the native Japanese RPGs that I've seen have a point system for honor. Honor was important in medieval Japan -- but it was important in medieval Europe too! It's a broadly important concept across cultures.

Or this one:

QuotePersons of high rank, because their responsibilities are greater, often receive special considerations. Actions which are crimes for the commoner are often not if committed by one of a warrior class. Thus, in lands such as Kozakura, a samurai has the right to cut down a commoner he deems to be insulting or truculent without being charged with murder.

Again, this did happen in medieval Japan -- but again, this was also true of medieval Europe -- and yet you don't find this characterization in standard D&D. In standard AD&D, paladins and cavaliers are generally embodiments of good. They don't cut down commoners for insulting them. But in Oriental Adventures, an honorable samurai isn't idealized in that way.

That said, it's not a capital crime. Japanese RPGs have their own stereotypes that are slightly different from the American ones. I have some criticisms of Oriental Adventures, but I don't see why it shouldn't be kept out for sale.

Quote from: jhkim;1137068I have some criticisms of Oriental Adventures, but I don't see why it shouldn't be kept out for sale.

IT'S RACIST!

They should write their own "Asian" rpg (I use the quotation marks because there are a zillion Asian cultures, as with European, etc), and by its astounding quality it can force Oriental Adventures into obscurity.

Unfortunately, like the conservative justice warriors here whinging about something maybe not being produced because of SJWs, they are lazy and completely without initiative or resolve, and will produce nothing except whinges.

I'm so glad these guys rode in on their white horses, and saved me from myself.

Quote from: jhkim;1137068I don't support removing Oriental Adventures from sale, but this is wrong. I've seen a number of Japanese and Korean RPGs, and they are vastly different than OA in tone and portrayal.

While principles of lordship are simlar to Samurai fealty, I think medieval times put more focus on duty than honor. The importance of perception is still very high in japan, moreso then in the west. If it wasn't they wouldn't have such miserable work culture and suicide rate.
But is OA steryotypey? Yeah.

As for why its being removed: its offensive to SOMEBODY. And victims are always correct unless they are wrong.

An extract from the foreword from David "Zeb" Cook:

"It is with great pleasure that I write this. For one thing, I finally have the chance to introduce new readers and gamers to a long-time fascination of mine-the Orient. The Orient is rich in variety and diversification. Though there are similarities among its many lands, each land has its own unique outlook and style. This is part of what makes the Orient mysterious and exciting-the exploration and discovery of entirely different cultures. Thus, the Oriental Adventures book is broad in scope-it does not restrict itself to a single country or time period. Pre-sented here is material drawn from Japan, China, Korea, Mongolia, Southeast Asia, and the Philippines. The historical periods that provide inspiration are equally broad-Heian, Kamakura, Sengoku, and Toku-gawa Japan; Han, T'ang, Sung, and Ming China; ancient Korea; even the Mongol invasions."

Don't worry - some moron will say "Orient" is racist... and it should be "Asian"...

Nevermind they're just Roman and Greek for the same thing respectively. But you know... white supremacy.

I love Oriental Adventure. It's not perfect, but dammit it was pretty seminal in introducing a lot of stuff I loved about D&D.

Whatever happened with D&D being banned for Satan worship? Now it's being banned for not being gay enough.