By new retro games, for want of a better term, I mean intentionally old school (whatever that may mean) stuff like Castles and Crusades, Osric, Mazes and Minotaurs, the games that are trying to recapture a certain perceived simplicity of design and easy fun play.  Mostly home efforts, but some pro ones.

What's out there?  Is this a trend or just a coincidence?  I have three, all vaguely based on DnD right up there, what else is about?

I've been thinking of getting the latest version of Metamorphosis Alpha that Jim Ward had a part in designing.  I don't know much about the system other than that it is NOT d20 and uses a 3d6 system.

For some background: Metamorphosis Alpha was the precursor to Gamma World, both of which were designed by the aforementioned Jim Ward.  I don't know much about the game setting other than its set on a giant and stranded spaceship that originated from Earth.  "Something" goes wrong, insert PC's and crazy-assed hijinks ensue.  Like Gamma World, it originally started as a kind of gonzo, free-for-all but each iteration of the game brought more and more seriousness to it -- I'm not sure how this one pans out.

There's SPQR, which is Steve Perrin's RuneQuest successor.  There's also Basic FRP, which is a d20-fied Basic/Expert D&D game.  And ICE is releasing RoleMaster Classic, which isn't really a "new retro" game of the sort you're talking about, I think.

I don't own any of the new rulebooks, but I understand why people are putting them out there.  I've picked up a few C&C items for use with future games I'd like to run, and I guess that's what I see as the greatest benefit.  All those who like their old, '80s-era rulesets have new product to buy.

There's the Dungeon Crawl Classics line of modules from Goodman Games.  

Quote from: Goodman GamesRemember the good old days, when adventures were underground, NPCs were there to be killed, and the finale of every dungeon was the dragon on the 20th level? Those days are back. Dungeon Crawl Classics don't waste your time with long-winded speeches, weird campaign settings, or NPCs who aren't meant to be killed. Each adventure is 100% good, solid dungeon crawl, with the monsters you know, the traps you fear, and the secret doors you know are there somewhere.

Quote from: BalbinusWhat's out there?  Is this a trend or just a coincidence?

It's a trend, pushed by two factors, completely separate but originating from the same thing: dissatisfaction with "Big D&D".

Dissatisfaction 1: I understand D&D's goal designs, I love that kind of game but unfortunately, the workload and/or prep time and/or handling time has become too much.

What happened: WotC fucked up by going all out on the design of 3e and failing to provide tools to support it, such as extensive software support to fasten the pace. There were extensive plans to support this game in electronic fashion (evidenced by a generator coming in the PHB) but somehow, it did not happen.

Possible pitfalls when correcting the problem with an "old school game": Workload reduced but loss of bits to fiddle with, leading to a blander experience.

Dissatisfaction 2: I don't understand D&D's goal designs. I like a different kind of gaming experience but don't really understand that and I've decided that driving a nail through wood with an hacksaw is a good idea.

What happened: WotC realized that D&D's success was due to the game's focus. It does things a certain way. They brought Jonathan Tweet for 3rd edition knowing that he writes extremely focused games. He refined D&D into an even more focused game, accentuating even more features such as power fantasy and ressource management.

Possible pitfalls when correcting the problem with an "old school game":
Barring a major redesign, you're fucked because you absolutely don't know the source of your problem(s). You need to focus on what you are trying to accomplish but it's doubtful you realize it, since you were using D&D to begin with. It's very likely you'll end up wring another Imagine, Forge: Out of Chaos or Fantasy Imperium.


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Now, I think if you design a "corrective game" based on dissatisfaction 1, it is possible to succeed. It's going to be a challenge to keep the feel but it's possible. I think if you design based on dissatisfaction 2, only a good amount of luck will allow you to build something functional enough to appeal and have staying power.

Different aesthetics definitely play a part. The epitome and general whipping boy of this is "dungeonpunk". While criticism of the phenomenon is overblown and often relies on made-up extreme examples ("half-werepudding paladin-monks with Kung Fu!"), there is something behind the surface that just rubs some old-school gamers the wrong way. It just rubs them differently, so 2e AD&D fans may lament the loss of rich world detail for mechanical bloat, while 1st editioneers may miss the casual dungeoneering focus and strong niche protection of Gygaxian roleplaying.

And then there is also the redistribution of power from DMs to players, not to mention the overzealous attention to "game balance". That pisses of a lot of folks, myself included. The battle lines are often drawn over symbolic ground ("they killed the rust monster!"), and many people simply ascribe the differences to nostalgic longing and rose coloured glasses, but the real causes are deeper than that. In my opinion, there are valid design/game/game world/adventuring aesthetics at play.

All in all, what this has resulted in is the flowering of a gaming niche. In fact, the majority of d20 and OGL adventures, from Necromancer's "Third edition rules, first edition feel" through Dungeon Crawl Classics ("No NPCs who aren't meant to be killed!") to Castles&Crusades ("Like old AD&D, without the weird bits"), OSRIC ("Like old AD&D, with all the weird bits") and others, are "old school" to one extent or another. Online community building and expanded tools for niche publishing made that possible, although we have yet to see how far the movement goes - towards stabilisation or eventual decline as people start to lose interest.

I think people have something on some of the motivations.

On Metamorphosis Alpha, is it actually an old school reworking or is it an updating?  Those are very different things, going for an old school feel takes you to some very different design choices than trying to modernise.  Which is better is of course a matter of taste (and quality of execution) but they are different goals.

Tunnels and Trolls, I'd like to point out, is still in-print and recently had a celebratory 7th edition put out. As far as I'm aware the text and rules haven't changed all that much from the 5th edition of 1984, and even that had a potent mid-70s vibe to it.

Forward... to Adventure! might end up falling into this category, depending on how strong the T&T influence is.

Mazes & Minotaurs and Encounter Critical rock my world in a big way.  The Dungeon Crawl Classics from Goodman Games make it super-easy to retro up my 3.5 D&D.  HackMaster sometimes trips my trigger, but I'd really like to see a HackMaster Basic or something like that.  I already play D&D, I don't have room in my brain to adequately manage two different thousand page systems.

Spaceship Zero has a retro feel to it as well, but in a totally different way.  Instead of retro gaming, it's retro sci-fi.  Savage Worlds addresses a retro design ethic, back from the days when minis games and RPGs were more intertwined.  The pulp motifs in Savage Worlds also feed into the sense of faux nostalgia.

Quote from: BalbinusOn Metamorphosis Alpha, is it actually an old school reworking or is it an updating?  Those are very different things, going for an old school feel takes you to some very different design choices than trying to modernise.  Which is better is of course a matter of taste (and quality of execution) but they are different goals.

Sorry to quibble over terms here but to me, "new retro" actually means both: recapturing old-school gaming as well as modernizing the ruleset; something that Castles & Crusades does magnificently as it dumps the more byzantine rules of AD&D and dumps the rule for everything style of d20.  

To answer your question: I don't have the game so I don't know for certain, but I believe one of Metamorphosis Alpha 4e's design goals was to go for that retro, old-school feel of 70's and 80's gaming with modern design sensibilities.  So yes, Metamorphosis Alpha, is an old school reworking and an updating

Quote from: BalbinusIs this a trend or just a coincidence?

I think it is a general trend in any aging hobby.  For instance, you see similar things in comics and cartoons.  As the core population ages, there is this desire for the shit that made you happy when you were 14.

Quote from: jrientsSpaceship Zero has a retro feel to it as well, but in a totally different way.  Instead of retro gaming, it's retro sci-fi.  Savage Worlds addresses a retro design ethic, back from the days when minis games and RPGs were more intertwined.  The pulp motifs in Savage Worlds also feed into the sense of faux nostalgia.

What is Spaceship Zero?

Quote from: jrientsMazes & Minotaurs and Encounter Critical rock my world in a big way.

What's the story behind Encounter Critical? Was it really someone's homebrew game from the late 70s, or is the whole thing a very elaborate mystification?

Quote from: MelanWhat's the story behind Encounter Critical? Was it really someone's homebrew game from the late 70s, or is the whole thing a very elaborate mystification?

It's a hoax: http://www222.pair.com/sjohn/encounter-critical.htm

From the middle of the page:

QuoteJust by finding this page, you've made your way inside an inside-joke I'm very fond of. Now that you're one of the cabal who know the secret, join us in exploring EC - and in exploring the alternate gaming history it comes from! If you're feeling really naughty, have fun passing EC off as a genuine "lost classic" to gamers who haven't heard of it yet. You'll probably go to hell for that, but hey - there'll be gamers. If that sounds like an enjoyable path to eternal damnation, you'll enjoy The Encounter Critical Mailing List! Join and download yet more free stuff (including the mysterious Encounter Critical FAQ, character sheets, and fan material) and meet strange gamers. And it's moderated, so it won't fill your inbox with unexpected 90-post threads about how phasic Thrazar's lapels are. Ten, twenty posts on that, tops.

Quote from: Moriarty[Encounter Critical]'s a hoax.

Bah!  Hearsay.  Why, I played it with Pinky Carruthers at the Banzai Institute back in '80.