Like it says really, the game Mercenaries, Spies and Private Eyes gets a lot of love here. Arguably it's an rpgsite darling.
So, if you're a fan, what makes you like it so much?
I don't remember anymore, but as I said before, when I was a kid it was the first game that I found that really wasn't locked into a specific setting. It was just modern times. You could be a reporter, a cop, a detective, a spy, whatever. That idea seemed so liberating to me (though at the age of 13 or whatever it just manifested itself as a feeling of creative excitement). It also (in my vague memory) had none of the arbitrary restrictions that you can't do this and that that all the other games I'd played up until then had. Finally, the book itself seemed kind of "mature", just a single book. You put it on your bookshelf. I was into Michael Gilbert, Desmond Bagley, Dick Francis at that time and this game told me that I could play these kinds of situations.
I haven't looked at it in years, but it's in my basement at my parent's where I will try and go dig it out this xmas to let you know if any of the above is valid. I even wrote a module for it and sent the author a letter and got a personal response, which was really exciting for me.
There are a lot of things to like about MSPE. On one level, it's nothing more than Tunnels and Trolls, with enough of a skill system to make modern characters believeabe and enough of a gunfight system to make firearms believeable. And that all by itself is pretty cool. The system is a quick, easy way to handle whatever comes up with little fuss or bother. NPCs are easy to generate at the level you need them. The system doesn't support a lot of detail--verisimillitude is largely on the gm.
For me, it's the first game I played that seemed to model adventure the way I came up wth it in my head. Before MSPE, I had played D&D, T&T, D&D/Arduin, Traveller, Top Secret, and Gamma World. Maybe a couple others, but those were the main ones. MSPE was the first one that attemted to cover multiple genres. MSPE had a simple, reasonably universal mechanic that suited most situations, and with a little thought, could be made to jump through a lot of hoops. When I watched Kolchak or the Avengers or the Wild Wild West, or whatever--a little heads-up display in my head superimposed character stats, difficulty levels, weapon notes, specialized skills, and whatnot right onto the show. No other game has done that. I could watch Conan or Beastmaster or Wizards and D&D/Arduin numbers never popped up like that. So I guess it's the first game for which I fully internalized the rules.
It never has had any expansions or revisions. Whatever houserules, specifications, or interpretations I've made are as official as anything else. So I've never been disappointed by an official release differing from my personal vision of the game.
It's short, light, inexpensive, and still in print. That's just pretty cool stuff.
Since it's come out, I've played dozens and dozens of rpgs, and I like most of them. But I still catch myself comaring them to MSPE, as though that's some permanent measure to me--the bar of the minimal rules needed to be satisfying to me. When I look at games like GURPS or Hero, each rule I run into that doesn't have an analog in MSPE is vetted with a little internal interview regarding how I would use the rule and what extra fun it would bring to the game. I've played those games a lot, because most of their rules bring something Ilike to the game. But MSPE is the standard--the game I don't have to ask myself any questions about.
Until I started posting here, I never heard a lot of web chatter about MSPE, and I thought it had been forgotten. I was happy to see the love. But my reasons for liking it are pretty personal, and I'm also curious to see why others like it so much.
is it available online?
Not that I know of.
Rick Loomis has said that he would consider posting it online once he sells all the paper books. It's only $9.95.
http://www.flyingbuffalo.com/mercen.htm
Quote from: stu2000Rick Loomis has said that he would consider posting it online once he sells all the paper books. It's only $9.95.
http://www.flyingbuffalo.com/mercen.htm
And I got my copy just days after ordering it online. Not quite as fast as a download, but not much of a wait at all.
Oh, and I like
MSPE for exactly the same reason I like
Tunnels & Trolls -- dead simple. Like
T&T, it seldom inspired adventure by mere virtue of its simplicity, but it certainly facilitated it when we got going.
!i!
MS&PE was my go-to generic game before there WERE generic games. That's why I have a love for it. I used to use the simple rules for everything that was "modern" or near future becasue it was such a simple easy to use system (although a bit dated now).
Eventually I started using the Mayfair CHILL for this type of stuff, and now I generally go to Savage Worlds...so MS&PE doesn't see much use anymore, but my copy (the Blade copy (not the crappy Slueth copy) signed by Mike Stackpole...before he got "famous") will always have a place of honor in my "collection").
Pretty much everyone has covered it. Solid design, dead simple, makes combats workable for interpersonal stuff even better than T&T, plus it has dead solid advice on well, running itself. That is things from using it for spies, to some basic mixed genre notes, as well as how to do "live clues" what more could you ask for?
Maybe better layout, modern art, so it get more love. That's about it.
(Of course to me, I take T&T's magic, drop it in, and I've the perfect Bureau 13 game over that obtuse too crunchy Tri Tac mess.)
Great for private eyes - best generic PI system I ever played, bar none.
Seems too lethal for Mercs. OK for Spies. Really good for offbeat modern characters like journalists, agent provocateurs, etc.
I only remember two things about it:
1. Awesome cover, really stood out in its time.
2. I made it through the solo Curse of the Jade Jaguar on first attempt.
Thus, it rocks.
Quote from: Silverlion(Of course to me, I take T&T's magic, drop it in, and I've the perfect Bureau 13 game...)
I want you to know that, thanks to this statement, I dug out my copy of
T&T last night to read it side-by-side with
MSPE. :)
!i!
Kolchak, baby. A dstinctly non-superpowered reporter against sorcery and supernatural creatures--the lure is just too strong.
Quote from: Ian AbsentiaI want you to know that, thanks to this statement, I dug out my copy of T&T last night to read it side-by-side with MSPE. :)
!i!
Yeah, I got me a new copy of 5.5 for the spells (since my Corgi edition has disappeared.)
Sure I rename the spells to more modern ones, but it fits the novels--WAY WAY more than the Tri Tac game (both how magic works, and the feel of investigation, tactical thinking.)
I love the novels. But I like pulp (even if its modern pulp..:D)
I wish someone could convince the owners of each property to write and publish that.
Quote from: BalbinusLike it says really, the game Mercenaries, Spies and Private Eyes gets a lot of love here. Arguably it's an rpgsite darling.
Really? I never cared for MSPE; my game of choice in this genre is Ninjas and Superspies, which is absolutely excellent, especially with the Mystic China sourcebook.
RPGPundit
Quote from: RPGPunditReally? I never cared for MSPE; my game of choice in this genre is Ninjas and Superspies, which is absolutely excellent, especially with the Mystic China sourcebook.
RPGPundit
It does get a lot of love here, compared to elsewhere anyway.
To be honest, I think the darling phenomenon is pure rpg.net, I don't really think it happens at any other fora.
What was cool about Ninjas and Superspies? I don't think I've ever seen it.
Quote from: BalbinusWhat was cool about Ninjas and Superspies? I don't think I've ever seen it.
I never got a chance to play it as such, but I did own it at one point and, yeah, it's a decent game.
It's sort of an ultimate '80's action/American ninja movie RPG: it has lots of guns and McGuyver-esque gadgets, pits you against vaguely menacing terrorist groups or gangster syndicates, stats out a veritable shit load of martial arts styles and comes off a whole lot more Chuck Norris than Final Fantasy.
It's crunchy, and Palladium-y (which can be a mixed bag, cf. Rifts) but it unfolds into surprisingly consistent and workable iteration of the system that cleverly takes advantage of the way Palladium runs multiple action combat and level progression martial arts.
And it was written by Erick Wujcik who knows what the fuck he's talking about when it comes to Chinese things .
Let's just start with the fact that it had Palladium-style level-by-level layout of something like 25 different real-world Martial Art styles.
Want to know what bonuses a Drunken Master, Shaolin, or Jeet Kune Do practitioner get in RIFTS or Robotech? Buy this book.
RPGPundit
A new edition of MS&PE is currently on Kickstarter:
Mercenaries Spies & Private Eyes RPG by Michael Stackpole by Richard Loomis - Kickstarter (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/994700393/mercenaries-spies-and-private-eyes-rpg-by-michael)
Not often that I do the kickstarter thing, but this one makes the cut for me. Thanks for posting the link.
and interesting thread, I didn't know MSPE had enough of a following to rate a why all the love thread anywhere.
Quote from: Toadmaster;1077948Not often that I do the kickstarter thing, but this one makes the cut for me.
The fact that the Kickstarter says "The book is written, edited and laid out. All we need now is the money..." helps.
I wish it was a new edition, not just a combined rescan of the early works.
That said, MSPE is a fine game. I've played it several times over the decades and it was always fun. I agree with Silverlion about combining MSPE with T&T. I've done that for T&T Shadowrun back when and it was fun.
MSPE is a cool and simple game but it is super lethal. It's fine for the kind of mercenary game where you grind through characters.
Could anyone tell me a little bit more about the system?
IIRC, mostly its 2D6+STAT vs. TN but doubles allow you to roll another 2D6 which is how you hit higher TNs.
It's a very bare bones game which is why our crew was more drawn to Palladium's Ninjas and Superspies.
It's a shame because MSPE could be fleshed out (just a bit) into a robust game equal to T&T.
It is a fairly simple game that manages to feel more robust than the actual mechanics suggest.
As SC says skills and attribute based effects are based on a simple 2d6+stat, + skill level vs level of difficulty (base difficulty requires a modified roll of 20, difficultly levels progress in blocks of 5, so level 2 difficulty = roll 25+, level 3 = 30 etc). Rolling double allows a re-roll, adding the second roll to the first so theoretically even impossible tasks are possible, just unlikely.
Combat works a little differently, missile weapons work as above and success does damage as specified by weapon, but melee combat is based on contested rolls, weapon (dice + modifiers) + stat and skill bonuses. Both parties roll and the loser takes damage = to the difference.
There is nothing earth shattering about the game, it is a simple and straight forward game and is better written / edited than many from the period. The writing and artwork have a very 80s vibe to it, but it is well suited to pretty much any "modernish" time period from the Wildwest to the present.
Backed the Kickstarter...why is there NOTHING anywhere about this? MSPE is probably one of the most underrated games I've ever played.
Quote from: Brad;1078076Backed the Kickstarter...why is there NOTHING anywhere about this? MSPE is probably one of the most underrated games I've ever played.
Eh, 2 days into the KS and they have already almost hit their (admitedly very modest) goal, so I guess the news is getting out there enough. Agree on it being a very underrated game, but I think a lot of that comes from being the product of a very small company that lets word of mouth do most of their marketing.
I'm struggling with the supposed deadliness of the system. It doesn't seem to fit the genre and the impression I get from the cover design.
I picked up MSPE ages ago, but have never played it. The thing that stood out to me from reading it was the GM advice on running murder mysteries, which remains pretty unique and interesting.
Quote from: 3rik;1078170I'm struggling with the supposed deadliness of the system. It doesn't seem to fit the genre and the impression I get from the cover design.
Specifically guns are rather lethal, melee and hand to hand fighting considerably less. If you were playing in a Noir detective game where most altercations are settled with fists, and pulling a knife is a fairly serious escalation, one where those carrying guns are using snub nosed revolvers and pocket automatics then it is considerably less lethal although one shot kills are still a possibility (roll high damage vs a character with low to average Con). If everybody is carrying around .44 magnums and M16s then yes it can result in lots of bodies.
Hitting with a firearm against anything but a short range non-moving target requires a fair amount of skill. Using range and cover to advantage allows one to make themselves a rather difficult target.
There are also optional rules for using luck to avoid damage if you want to have more of an action hero running through gun fire kind of game.
Missile weapons are rather lethal because they don't have the opposed rolls damage buffer of melee, a hit delivers straight damage. This could be seen as a flaw, but when the game came out there were not a lot of games with guns available, and most that had them were fairly deadly. It would be quite easy to just 1/2, 1/4, 1/10 firearms damage or otherwise nerf missile weapons to personal taste. If the game has a flaw it is that firearm damage is too high, on the other hand a man getting shot with a .600 Nitro elephant gun probably should turn into a fine paste. The game provides the formula used to determine damage. It would be fairly easy to just change the formula to reduce the damage and since it doesn't provide a particularly extensive list of weapons it wouldn't be a major chore to do so.
From looking at the cover illustration I immediately get a kind of Indiana Jones, Tintin or Uncharted vibe, or something like Mission Impossible (the TV series) or Man from UNCLE; kind of adventurous pulp-flavored settings.
I was never wowed by Tunnels & Trolls. Can someone who likes MSPE tell me why I should get it?
Convince me. I dare you. :D