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Pen & Paper Roleplaying Central => Pen and Paper Roleplaying Games (RPGs) Discussion => Topic started by: RPGPundit on August 18, 2012, 08:13:17 PM

Title: Most Classic "Monster" not from D&D
Post by: RPGPundit on August 18, 2012, 08:13:17 PM
What would you consider the most classic fantasy RPG monster or humanoid not (originally) from the D&D rules?  We're not talking from literary sources here, but rather iconic creatures from other rpgs, ie Skaven, wolfen, beast-men, duck-men from Runequest, etc...

RPGPundit
Title: Most Classic "Monster" not from D&D
Post by: Panzerkraken on August 18, 2012, 08:15:38 PM
Quote from: RPGPundit;573258What would you consider the most classic fantasy RPG monster or humanoid not (originally) from the D&D rules?  We're not talking from literary sources here, but rather iconic creatures from other rpgs, ie Skaven, wolfen, beast-men, duck-men from Runequest, etc...

RPGPundit

I vote for Vargr.  You see a dog in a jumpsuit and you immediately think Traveller.
Title: Most Classic "Monster" not from D&D
Post by: Ladybird on August 18, 2012, 08:26:12 PM
Skaven are a myth. They don't exist.

I'd probably go for Chaos Warriors, in their Warhammer incarnations.

They should be terrifying foes. These aren't just people who have lived in a horrific tear in reality for centuries... they're the elite of those people. They don't live there, they thrive there.

Especially in an "authority == asskicking" world like Warhammer, when the other side's line troops can go toe-to-toe with your general - and win! - then you're fucked.
Title: Most Classic "Monster" not from D&D
Post by: James Gillen on August 19, 2012, 01:21:17 AM
Duckmen.

Why a duck?

Why NOT?

JG
Title: Most Classic "Monster" not from D&D
Post by: jeff37923 on August 19, 2012, 01:31:18 AM
Quote from: Panzerkraken;573260I vote for Vargr.  You see a dog in a jumpsuit and you immediately think Traveller.

I'd agree, but will quibble and say that Traveller is not fantasy but science fiction.

Ducks from Runequest then. That one race defined the game for me when I was a kid because the concept just seemed so stupid.
Title: Most Classic "Monster" not from D&D
Post by: Doom on August 19, 2012, 01:45:02 AM
Not "from" D&D? Do you mean not "in" D&D?

I mean, dragon is the most classic fantasy monster with origins far outside of D&D.

Skaven aren't much removed from wererats, if you read the old descriptions of them, they're a very different beast than just a "like a werewolf, but rat". Wolfen and Beast-men strike me as just versions of lycanthropes (including jackalweres) or gnolls or minotaurs or what not.

I'd go with Chaos Warrior...I see one of those, and there's nothing in D&D that really is much like it. You've got the whole warrior-devoted to a god thing, but that only minimally is like a Paladin (since the Chaos Warriors don't get spells or cleric-like powers), and you've got the mutations going on, which are way outside of most all D&D milieus.
Title: Most Classic "Monster" not from D&D
Post by: The Butcher on August 19, 2012, 02:32:30 AM
Runequest gets a lot of flak because of the duckmen, but when it comes to monsters, I find Runequest's trolls, the Uz, so different from D&D's depiction of trolls, that they're actually a pretty good iconic Runequest monster.

For WFRP I'd hazard say it's not the skaven or the Chaos Warriors, but the mutants and beastmen. No other bestiary entry does a better job of demonstrating Chaos in action in that setting.
Title: Most Classic "Monster" not from D&D
Post by: Planet Algol on August 19, 2012, 02:49:54 AM
Dragon Snail
Deodanth
Phraint
Dragon Ogre
Title: Most Classic "Monster" not from D&D
Post by: Melan on August 19, 2012, 04:10:29 AM
Walktapus (walktapi) was the first monster that came to my mind, but ducks are a good bet.
Title: Most Classic "Monster" not from D&D
Post by: Libertad on August 19, 2012, 07:08:09 PM
Quote from: Doom;573360Not "from" D&D? Do you mean not "in" D&D?

I mean, dragon is the most classic fantasy monster with origins far outside of D&D.

I agree with this post.  Not only is the word Dragons part of the RPG name, they're some of the mightiest creatures in the Monster Manual and guard a horde full of treasure (the ultimate reward for adventuring parties).  They featured prominently in King Arthur's legends, and D&D heavily draws from mythic Medieval Europe in its themes and trappings.
Title: Most Classic "Monster" not from D&D
Post by: mcbobbo on August 20, 2012, 12:15:01 PM
Earthdawn had Obsidimen and T'skrang as races that stood out as pretty unique.  Not specifically 'monsters', though.
Title: Most Classic "Monster" not from D&D
Post by: Benoist on August 20, 2012, 12:16:44 PM
Broos (for me, personally).
Title: Most Classic "Monster" not from D&D
Post by: everloss on August 20, 2012, 10:50:16 PM
do Zentraedi count?

otherwise, Palladium's Wolfen (although I think Kankoran are much cooler).

or maybe Kobolds (from Kobolds Ate My Baby!)
Title: Most Classic "Monster" not from D&D
Post by: Skywalker on August 20, 2012, 11:07:31 PM
Quote from: The Butcher;573384For WFRP I'd hazard say it's not the skaven or the Chaos Warriors, but the mutants and beastmen. No other bestiary entry does a better job of demonstrating Chaos in action in that setting.

Beastman, definitely for WFRP.

Wolfen from Palladium Fantasy are pretty iconic for me too.

Helghasts from Lone Wolf, given that Giaks are just Goblins.

Grey Hoods from Dragon Warriors.
Title: Most Classic "Monster" not from D&D
Post by: Tahmoh on August 21, 2012, 12:19:40 AM
Quote from: Benoist;574086Broos (for me, personally).

I agree of the monsters i read about in the MRQ2 monster collesium book the Broo seemed the most unique, though they do sorta reseble beastmen from warhammer so im not sure how unique they really are.

I also liked the Uz for how different to the usual trolls of fantasy rpg's they were so they'd get my second vote.

The Femir from Warhammer always seemed pretty unique to me aswell(at least back in my HerQuest days), though i guess you could just reskin a cyclops with slightly more orcish origins to get femir's.
Title: Most Classic "Monster" not from D&D
Post by: RPGPundit on August 21, 2012, 04:32:54 PM
Quote from: Doom;573360Not "from" D&D? Do you mean not "in" D&D?

I mean, dragon is the most classic fantasy monster with origins far outside of D&D.

I thought I was pretty clear in the OP: From a game system or setting not originally made for D&D, and not just from some literary or mythological source.

So yes, you could say "dragon", but which one, from which non-D&D game or setting?

RPGPundit
Title: Most Classic "Monster" not from D&D
Post by: The Butcher on August 21, 2012, 08:26:44 PM
Quote from: Skywalker;574423Grey Hoods from Dragon Warriors.

Oh yeah! Dragon Warriors has its share of memorable monsters. The Grey Hoods are cool, but I'm partial to the Blue Men myself. Undead Viking riddlers FTW.
Title: Most Classic "Monster" not from D&D
Post by: Skywalker on August 21, 2012, 08:51:16 PM
Actually, Rimfax would be the iconic Dragon Warriors monster, now I think about it.

(http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/255/tecwebdb9.jpg)
"He appears as a skeletal horse, wreathed in a seething mass of serpents, reeking of rottenness and death."
Title: Most Classic "Monster" not from D&D
Post by: gleichman on August 21, 2012, 08:52:33 PM
Personal choice: Blue Undead from Morrow Project.
Title: Most Classic "Monster" not from D&D
Post by: Doom on August 21, 2012, 11:31:41 PM
Quote from: RPGPundit;574863I thought I was pretty clear in the OP: From a game system or setting not originally made for D&D, and not just from some literary or mythological source.

So yes, you could say "dragon", but which one, from which non-D&D game or setting?

RPGPundit

My bad, now I get it.

WarhammerFRP it's the skaven. The dragon-ogres might be more unique, but they also just don't have the iconic strength for me.

RQ? I'll can accept Broo, but nothing in RQ really stands out for me. The ducks are unique, but I couldn't tell you that much about 'em other than "FRP with ducks? Must be RQ" It really seems like the cults are the standout, not the monsters.

M:TG it's goblins. That ain't no ordinary pile of...you know.

PF goblins are different from M:TG goblins, but iconic in their own way, just a little bit more comical and childish than goblins elsewhere, but unique for all that.

But what about D&D? There are like 4 very distinct versions...what monster is most iconic for each?

Old D&D? Orcs. "Surface dwellers!"

AD&D? Drow, perhaps, seems every AD&D player shudders at drow, all those powers and freakin' poison on everything AND freakin' rotting magic items.

3e? That probably was the dragon edition, where they didn't just have names, the DM had to devote a day to stat one up properly.

4e? I played it, but open to suggestions, so little really had much depth for me, but the system also died faster than the others.
Title: Most Classic "Monster" not from D&D
Post by: Skywalker on August 21, 2012, 11:40:24 PM
Quote from: Doom;5750034e? I played it, but open to suggestions, so little really had much depth for me, but the system also died faster than the others.

My first choice would be dragons. 4e was the first edition of D&D where a 1st level PC would meet both halves of the RPGs namesake in their very first adventure.

After that, I would hazard a guess at either Dragonborn (though technically a PC race) or Angels and Archons, which were both a reflection on the change of the cosmology and prevalent at Paragon and Epic Tier.

For 3e, my choice would actually have been Kobolds. Meepo was a huge celebrity for the edition and 3e was the first edition you could really build up the common Kobold into something more with the mechanics alone.
Title: Most Classic "Monster" not from D&D
Post by: Marleycat on August 22, 2012, 12:24:59 AM
My favorite monster not Dnd are Maraunds from Mage the Ascension and Banishers from Mage the Awakening. They are human, so human and so impossibly broken on a level no human could ever fathom. If I have to stay in Dnd land it would be Wolfen.  Smart as humans, fucked up like humans, and on a mission, one that's entirely human. Seems I prefer a particular theme.....
Title: Most Classic "Monster" not from D&D
Post by: everloss on August 22, 2012, 02:27:29 AM
Quote from: Doom;575003My bad, now I get it.

WarhammerFRP it's the skaven. The dragon-ogres might be more unique, but they also just don't have the iconic strength for me.

RQ? I'll can accept Broo, but nothing in RQ really stands out for me. The ducks are unique, but I couldn't tell you that much about 'em other than "FRP with ducks? Must be RQ" It really seems like the cults are the standout, not the monsters.

M:TG it's goblins. That ain't no ordinary pile of...you know.

PF goblins are different from M:TG goblins, but iconic in their own way, just a little bit more comical and childish than goblins elsewhere, but unique for all that.

But what about D&D? There are like 4 very distinct versions...what monster is most iconic for each?

Old D&D? Orcs. "Surface dwellers!"

AD&D? Drow, perhaps, seems every AD&D player shudders at drow, all those powers and freakin' poison on everything AND freakin' rotting magic items.

3e? That probably was the dragon edition, where they didn't just have names, the DM had to devote a day to stat one up properly.

4e? I played it, but open to suggestions, so little really had much depth for me, but the system also died faster than the others.

I might be wrong, but you did quote Pundit and say you "got it," and then posted monsters from DnD. So that makes me think you didn't get it at all.

Oh, and I'll throw in Xiticix from Rifts.
Title: Most Classic "Monster" not from D&D
Post by: Marleycat on August 22, 2012, 02:41:36 AM
Quote from: everloss;575064I might be wrong, but you did quote Pundit and say you "got it," and then posted monsters from DnD. So that makes me think you didn't get it at all.

Oh, and I'll throw in Xiticix from Rifts.
I was totally thinking of them but I can't spell and I think dogs are more scary then insects.  What!?! I like cats get it? And prefer horror over science. Not sure if that was clear?
Title: Most Classic "Monster" not from D&D
Post by: elfandghost on August 22, 2012, 05:21:55 AM
Fimir, from early Warhammer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fimir
Title: Most Classic "Monster" not from D&D
Post by: vytzka on August 22, 2012, 07:09:03 AM
Quote from: The Butcher;574949Oh yeah! Dragon Warriors has its share of memorable monsters. The Grey Hoods are cool, but I'm partial to the Blue Men myself. Undead Viking riddlers FTW.

Blue men are great! I also liked the Battlemaster (IIRC?), a giant that you could summon to fight for you... but the issue was there was only one Battlemaster ever, and if two people were unwise enough to summon it against each other, the Battlemasters would merge and dispense large scale equal opportunity ass kickings.

Other personal favorites include Zephyr Hounds and Black Reavers from Rolemaster, although people might know them better from Angband.
Title: Most Classic "Monster" not from D&D
Post by: Darran on August 22, 2012, 07:31:41 AM
Quote from: Broken-Serenity;574444I agree of the monsters i read about in the MRQ2 monster collesium book the Broo seemed the most unique, though they do sorta reseble beastmen from warhammer so im not sure how unique they really are.

You have to realise that the Broo came first in RuneQuest in 1978.
GW were influenced by RQ and StormBringer in the development of Warhammer.
Title: Most Classic "Monster" not from D&D
Post by: Ladybird on August 22, 2012, 08:14:29 AM
Quote from: Marleycat;575070I was totally thinking of them but I can't spell and I think dogs are more scary then insects.  What!?! I like cats get it? And prefer horror over science. Not sure if that was clear?

Good call - Shadowrun's Toxic and Bug spirits. They're great perversions of the "Nature is good!" theme that SR looks at sometimes.
Title: Most Classic "Monster" not from D&D
Post by: jibbajibba on August 22, 2012, 08:29:03 AM
Magic the gathering has some awesome monsters.
Title: Most Classic "Monster" not from D&D
Post by: Doom on August 22, 2012, 12:16:00 PM
Quote from: everloss;575064I might be wrong, but you did quote Pundit and say you "got it," and then posted monsters from DnD. So that makes me think you didn't get it at all.

Oh, and I'll throw in Xiticix from Rifts.

I extended the question....jeez. To clarify for you, yes, Pundit was asking outside of D&D, but it occured to me that different editions of D&D had their own icons. 'D&D' means many things to many people, "Which D&D?" is not an unusual question.

So, I was curious what other people thought about the idea of different versions of D&D having different iconic monsters. Turns out, it's ok for a thread to go a little off topic. Read around the site a bit, and you'll see it's been known to happen from time to time.

Jeez.
Title: Most Classic "Monster" not from D&D
Post by: dbm on August 22, 2012, 06:23:17 PM
Deep Ones and Mi Go from Call of Cthulhu? Or Shoggoth or a Great Dohl.  Lots of awesome monsters there.
Title: Most Classic "Monster" not from D&D
Post by: The Butcher on August 22, 2012, 06:41:44 PM
Quote from: dbm;575499Deep Ones and Mi Go from Call of Cthulhu? Or Shoggoth or a Great Dohl.  Lots of awesome monsters there.

CoC is a tough call. I remember thumbing through 5e at the LGS as a 13-year-old who had never heard of Lovecraft, and looking at all those trippy, bizarre monsters and being perplexed and enthralled at the same time...

But if I had to choose one, I'd say it's the shoggoth. Though as a Keeper I've used and abused star vampires...
Title: Most Classic "Monster" not from D&D
Post by: RPGPundit on August 23, 2012, 05:51:05 PM
Deep Ones and Mi-Go are both definitely a good call, though slightly cheating given that they weren't originally designed in the game itself, but the literature that inspired the game... I don't think CoC significantly changed the monsters from their original portrayal, or would you argue they did?

RPGPundit
Title: Most Classic "Monster" not from D&D
Post by: languagegeek on August 23, 2012, 06:10:39 PM
Broo are great. One of the few monsters out there that you'd rather be killed by than taken prisoner... even if you could escape later on.
Title: Most Classic "Monster" not from D&D
Post by: flyingcircus on August 23, 2012, 06:52:48 PM
I always liked the Jabberwocky from 1e WHFRP.  Never saw it in any other editions though, I even bought the miniature for it from I think RAL PARTHA.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d0/Jabberwocky.jpg/250px-Jabberwocky.jpg)
Title: Most Classic "Monster" not from D&D
Post by: FASERIP on August 23, 2012, 08:02:11 PM
Xorns.
Title: Most Classic "Monster" not from D&D
Post by: dbm on August 24, 2012, 03:49:11 AM
Quote from: RPGPundit;575900Deep Ones and Mi-Go are both definitely a good call, though slightly cheating given that they weren't originally designed in the game itself, but the literature that inspired the game... I don't think CoC significantly changed the monsters from their original portrayal, or would you argue they did?

RPGPundit

To be honest, I'm not that familiar with his books - I find this can be an advantage when playing CoC as there is less chance of guessing the menace in advance!

Quote from: flyingcircus;575925I always liked the Jabberwocky from 1e WHFRP.  Never saw it in any other editions though, I even bought the miniature for it from I think RAL PARTHA.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d0/Jabberwocky.jpg/250px-Jabberwocky.jpg)

If we're requesting originality then Jaberwocky is a poem (http://www.jabberwocky.com/carroll/jabber/jabberwocky.html) :)
Title: Most Classic "Monster" not from D&D
Post by: The Butcher on August 24, 2012, 06:59:35 AM
Quote from: RPGPundit;575900Deep Ones and Mi-Go are both definitely a good call, though slightly cheating given that they weren't originally designed in the game itself, but the literature that inspired the game... I don't think CoC significantly changed the monsters from their original portrayal, or would you argue they did?

No, I don't think so. The game did push the critters into interesting new roles and directions, though, when it explored different settings such as the 1890s, the modern day and the Middle Ages (Cthulhu: Dark Ages), long before pop culture cannibalized the Mythos and writing HPL pastiches became "cool". In this aspect, it's possibly pioneering, but I think the monsters are essentially the same as Lovecraft envisioned them.
Title: Most Classic "Monster" not from D&D
Post by: flyingcircus on August 24, 2012, 10:15:05 AM
Quote from: dbm;576004To be honest, I'm not that familiar with his books - I find this can be an advantage when playing CoC as there is less chance of guessing the menace in advance!



If we're requesting originality then Jaberwocky is a poem (http://www.jabberwocky.com/carroll/jabber/jabberwocky.html) :)

But it was in WHFRP 1e, sorry.  It still is pretty original even if a poem but a dragon is original?
Title: Most Classic "Monster" not from D&D
Post by: Darran on August 24, 2012, 07:27:47 PM
Quote from: flyingcircus;575925I always liked the Jabberwocky from 1e WHFRP.  Never saw it in any other editions though, I even bought the miniature for it from I think RAL PARTHA.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d0/Jabberwocky.jpg/250px-Jabberwocky.jpg)

RuneQuest III Games Workshop 'Monsters' had the Jabberwocky and the Bandersnatch as well.
Illustrated by the same artists as WHFRP.
Title: Most Classic "Monster" not from D&D
Post by: everloss on August 25, 2012, 12:14:08 AM
Quote from: Marleycat;575070I was totally thinking of them but I can't spell and I think dogs are more scary then insects.  What!?! I like cats get it? And prefer horror over science. Not sure if that was clear?

xiticix are scary! bugs creep me out. But as for why they are classic is because they were the only monster other than Fury Beetles and generic dinosaurs from the Rifts main book. That and they're just badass, weird bug people!

Dogs are pretty scary too. I wouldn't want a Dog Boy pawing and sniffing at my crotch in his S&M gear. *shudder*
Title: Most Classic "Monster" not from D&D
Post by: Roger the GS on August 25, 2012, 12:06:40 PM
The Ssu from Empire of the Petal Throne.
Title: Most Classic "Monster" not from D&D
Post by: RPGPundit on August 26, 2012, 05:30:14 PM
I think the ones I've kept coming back to actually using in my D&D games are the Skaven, so I'll vote for them.

RPGPundit
Title: Most Classic "Monster" not from D&D
Post by: Skywalker on August 26, 2012, 05:39:11 PM
Quote from: RPGPundit;576947I think the ones I've kept coming back to actually using in my D&D games are the Skaven, so I'll vote for them.

But Skaven don't really exist ;)

Actually, we go so sick of the "Skaven don't exist" in our WFRP game that we called our river barge "The Skaven" as a form of advertising the species existence :D
Title: Most Classic "Monster" not from D&D
Post by: James Gillen on August 27, 2012, 03:29:13 AM
Quote from: RPGPundit;576947I think the ones I've kept coming back to actually using in my D&D games are the Skaven, so I'll vote for them.

RPGPundit

Who's the leader of the club that's made for you and me?
M-I-C
K-E-Y
M-O-U-S-E!
Title: Most Classic "Monster" not from D&D
Post by: RPGPundit on August 28, 2012, 11:32:10 PM
Quote from: Skywalker;576954But Skaven don't really exist ;)

Actually, we go so sick of the "Skaven don't exist" in our WFRP game that we called our river barge "The Skaven" as a form of advertising the species existence :D

I've always thought that whole thing about Skaven extremely stupid.

RPGPundit
Title: Most Classic "Monster" not from D&D
Post by: James Gillen on August 29, 2012, 03:08:29 AM
Quote from: Skywalker;576954But Skaven don't really exist ;)


Just like... NINJA!!!!
Title: Most Classic "Monster" not from D&D
Post by: Blackhand on August 29, 2012, 03:49:15 AM
Quote from: flyingcircus;575925I always liked the Jabberwocky from 1e WHFRP.  Never saw it in any other editions though, I even bought the miniature for it from I think RAL PARTHA.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d0/Jabberwocky.jpg/250px-Jabberwocky.jpg)

Now called a Jabberslythe. (http://chestofcolors.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/finecast-jabberslythe-review-01.jpg)
Title: Most Classic "Monster" not from D&D
Post by: vytzka on August 29, 2012, 05:30:54 AM
Quote from: flyingcircus;575925I always liked the Jabberwocky from 1e WHFRP.  Never saw it in any other editions though, I even bought the miniature for it from I think RAL PARTHA.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d0/Jabberwocky.jpg/250px-Jabberwocky.jpg)

Awesome, it is the same artwork as in the (translated into Lithuanian) Alice in Wonderland book I used to read as a child. That whole part with the poem and the art used to creep the shit out of me.
Title: Most Classic "Monster" not from D&D
Post by: danskmacabre on August 29, 2012, 06:58:09 AM
"Clakers" from  Elric/Stormbringer. Sort of an apelike creature with wings.

"Land sharks" from Gammaworld.
Sharks that "swim" through the earth.
Title: Most Classic "Monster" not from D&D
Post by: Kuroth on August 29, 2012, 08:21:19 PM
It was very likely due too the way I ran them, but Carnivorous Apes under AD&D 1 were some of the most feared/hated in a number of campaigns.  Also, your standard evil cultist / possessed non-player characters.  These are not really bound to D&D.  So, they fit the question.

Oh yes, I'll add the Zhondani from the Third Imperium setting of Traveller.  Players generally hated those guys, everything about them really.
Title: Most Classic "Monster" not from D&D
Post by: The Butcher on August 29, 2012, 09:51:31 PM
Quote from: Kuroth;578179Oh yes, I'll add the Zhondani from the Third Imperium setting of Traveller.  Players generally hated those guys, everything about them really.

Good call.

Also commonly known as "Zhoviets" for obvious reasons.
Title: Most Classic "Monster" not from D&D
Post by: Benoist on August 29, 2012, 10:04:18 PM
Cthulhu.

Hey, the OP question said "monster", not necessarily "monster type".