You tell me:
http://www.white-wolf.com/index.php?line=news&articleid=639
With such classic lines of Swinishness like:
Quotein the World of Darkness, shadows are deeper, nights are darker, fog is thicker
Ohh yes, yes!! Its where every goth boy wants to live! Its because WoD people are special people, who no one really understands (especially their parents)!! Its not their fault that they FEEL more than you do!!
Stupid fuckers.
And, let's not miss what is probably the gayest line I've seen from WW in a long time:
QuoteIn our world, there are urban legends. In the World of Darkness, there are urban legends whispered into the ears of autistic children by invisible spiders.
"autistic children by invisible spiders"? What the fuck?? That's not scary, its not appealing, its not evocative, and it certainly makes no fucking sense... the only thing it says to me is "The writer rolled a critical fumble trying to sound like a great writer, and chose quite possibly one of the worst lines that I've read in years".
If this is what we have to look forward to with Monte Cook doing the WoD, I can see its going to be a long year.
And finally, note their lies in the company info. They haven't been at 22% for some time now. Their market share is steadily dropping. But then, calling themselves the "increasingly irrelevant" company just doesn't have the same zing to it.
RPGPundit
I wonder if it will be much like the Book of Evil that WotC put out. (Evil not included)
QuoteIn the World of Darkness, there are urban legends whispered into the ears of autistic children by invisible spiders.
That is so
shockingly bad for so many reasons. :D
Eh. Whatever.
That back-cover text is pretty bog standard WoD stuff.
And BoVD, except for some gratiutous grossness that, if that's what "more evil" was about I could do without, suited me just fine.
I am holding out a sliver of hope that maybe Monte wasn't the one who wrote that "What is the WoD?" ad copy.
'Cause if he did, I pronounce the whole project to be fucked. That's how off-putting those few lines are to me.
I doubt Monte wrote that - it is pretty bad.
I'm not into WoD but I could see buying this - depending on how good it is and what direction they take things. But I'm not psyched and waiting anxiously.
I guess that means it's not going to be d20.
Interesting.
I agree that the autistic line is terrible.
Didn't they use that blurb (not the autistic spiders part) from the very beginning?
Wow! More reasons for me to not care!
Although really, it would have been funnier if it had invisible children, who were in turn whispered-to by autistic spiders.
That actually makes more sense.
QuoteFor his last book written in the roleplaying genre
Is this really the last RPG he's writing?
Quote from: James McMurrayIs this really the last RPG he's writing?
So he's said.
RPGPundit
Wow. That's really, amazingly lame.
If the spiders are invisible , how does anyone know they are spiders , they could be any other type of insect for example.
Does the WoD really need such whimsy ?
That copy has a very Bruce Baugh-ish ring to it.
Quote from: Simon OwenIf the spiders are invisible , how does anyone know they are spiders , they could be any other type of insect for example.
Does the WoD really need such whimsy ?
Because if you dump a bucket of flour on the head of an autistic child, you see spiders. All over their ears. Don't believe me? Try it!
They're probably Shadows, not spiders.
For some reason copy prose is nearly always weak. One of the most important parts of the product IMO. Weak copy, fewer undecided people buy it, good copy can persuade a few more waverers to part with their hard earned cash.
Quote from: ScaleThat copy has a very Bruce Baugh-ish ring to it.
Now that you say that, it does remind me a bit of the pitch Baugh made for his inexplicable True20 setting.
I wish I had a invisible spider when I was growing up
Quote from: Hastur T. FannonI wish I had a invisible spider when I was growing up
You did. In fact, you still do. It's right --
-- well, okay, you can't see it. But it's there.
That's really bad ad copy.
It's also not at all gay.
That accusation leveled at Blue Rose? Okay, yeah. Maybe.
But please don't conflate my sexual orientation with WoD games. I need what little dignity I have left. :p
Quote from: ScaleThat copy has a very Bruce Baugh-ish ring to it.
Indeed, if by "Bruce Baugh-ish" you mean "talentless drivel". The two are synonymous, after all.
RPGPundit
It's intersting that the first attack I've seen that used homosexuality in it was from Pundit, who was so outspoken in the "we're unfriendly?" thread. :)
Abyssal Maw, if you're out there, I hope you're ignoring this. :D
Quote from: RedFoxThat's really bad ad copy.
It's also not at all gay.
That accusation leveled at Blue Rose? Okay, yeah. Maybe.
But please don't conflate my sexual orientation with WoD games. I need what little dignity I have left. :p
Hey, its the cross you bear in our modern Cartman world.
Stuff that sucks is "gay". Especially if said stuff is made by pretentious would-be "artistés".
You could redefine yourself as "queer" but then you will find people using your orientation to conflate with bizzare settings that make no sense, like Jorune. As in, Jorune is a bit queer.
You could just call yourself a homosexual. No one around here will conflate that term with anything else, I suspect. Or if they do, they'll get a can of whoop-arse from everyone else.
But really, you should just live with it. Hell, the little fox in your avatar tells me that whatever "dignity" you once may have held has long since flown the coop.
But hey, however complicated all of this might be, take heart in the fact that you're getting off easy: Settembrini's nationality is constantly being associated with bizzare leather fetishists dominiatrix-fandom!
Constantly. (at least, if I have anything to do with it! :D )
RPGPundit
Quote from: James McMurrayIt's intersting that the first attack I've seen that used homosexuality in it was from Pundit, who was so outspoken in the "we're unfriendly?" thread. :)
Abyssal Maw, if you're out there, I hope you're ignoring this. :D
I think we need to start a betting pool as to how many posts James will make before he either leaves here in boredom or finally posts something other than an ad hominem insult/attack on my person... I mean, really, how long can you go, dude?
You don't like me, we get it. But you're not going to change anything; it won't change how things are run here, it won't change whether this site lives or dies, there's nothing you can do that will actually affect me in any fucking way. Live with that.
Meanwhile, you may want to consider that if you can get over your issues with me and chose not to leave, you could even become a constructive member of this forum.
Fuck, right now Dominus Nox is by far a more productive member of this forum than you are. And that says a lot.
RPGPundit
Quote from: RPGPunditHey, its the cross you bear in our modern Cartman world.
Stuff that sucks is "gay".
Cartman, as a character, is a crass little moron, and is never worth imitating. The shock value simply rings false, originating as it does from a character that's basically a walking "fat kid" joke.
Now, get in the kitchen. And make me some pie.
Quote from: RPGPunditHey, its the cross you bear in our modern Cartman world.
Stuff that sucks is "gay". Especially if said stuff is made by pretentious would-be artists.
No, fuck Cartman in his big gay ass and fuck anyone who uses cartoon characters as excuses for their bigoted jargon.
Quote from: RPGPunditYou could redefine yourself as "queer" but then you will find people using your orientation to conflate with bizzare settings that make no sense, like Jorune. As in, Jorune is a bit queer.
You could just call yourself a homosexual. No one around here will conflate that term with anything else, I suspect. Or if they do, they'll get a can of whoop-arse from everyone else.
I'm not going to redefine terms to dodge ignorant vitriol. How about
you redefine
gay for yourself so it doesn't mean "stuff that sucks"?
Or you could just be an asshole. I recognize that that's your "thing" here and all, but give some thought to whether or not this is a particular place you want to go in your jerkdom.
And if you think I'm being oversensitive with this crap, all I can say is walk a mile or two in my ruby slippers first.
Quote from: RedFoxAnd if you think I'm being oversensitive with this crap, all I can say is walk a mile or two in my ruby slippers first.
I'm agreeing a lot here, generally. I am, however, not going to walk a mile in those slippers. Do you have any pumps?
Oh, and RedFox?
Pie.
LOL
Dude, I know I can't change you. I wouldn't want to. My amusement at how stupid humanity can get would drop a ton if you were to somehow become a "normal" person. Besides, if I thought you capable of change I wouldn't think you were so pathetic.
I write useful stuff all the time. If you weren't a walking, talking caricature you'd realize that. Hell, I even tried to post some useful stuff over in the Amber forum today but your head is so far up your ass that you can't write three replies without foaming at the mouth about the swine, how great you are, and how if someone disagrees with you they're obviously brain damaged. That annoyed me a bit, especially when I then went to the threads that I've enjoyed reading lately to see you foaming at the mouth in those as well. The response was to reply to all your overblown BS, rather than just a bit here and there.
I suppose it's just that time of the month (week?, day?), and you're menstrating at the mouth again.
Quote from: RedFoxOr you could just be an asshole.
I'm guessing he'll choose this route.
Quote from: Levi KornelsenCartman, as a character, is a crass little moron, and is never worth imitating.
No way! He's got some bad behaviors well worth imitating. Declaring "Screw you guys, I'm going home." is one of my favorites.
Calling stuff that sucks gay? No. That one just doesn't work. Pundit, this is not looking good for you nor reflecting well on the site as a whole.
Quote from: Levi KornelsenI'm agreeing a lot here, generally. I am, however, not going to walk a mile in those slippers. Do you have any pumps?
Fine, but I want them back by next weekend.
Quote from: Levi KornelsenOh, and RedFox?
Pie.
If I liked pie in the first place, I wouldn't be gay OMG!!!1! :mad:
Oh wait,
pie.Mmm.
Quote from: jrientsNo way! He's got some bad behaviors well worth imitating. Declaring "Screw you guys, I'm going home." is one of my favorites.
:talktothehand:
Stop.
See, this is what you're doing: :blahblah:
And this is what I want you to do: :pie:
Quote from: Levi KornelsenAnd this is what I want you to do: :pie:
I've got a beef pot pie on tap for lunch. I can share.
Quote from: RedFoxNo, fuck Cartman in his big gay ass and fuck anyone who uses cartoon characters as excuses for their bigoted jargon.
I'm not going to redefine terms to dodge ignorant vitriol. How about you redefine gay for yourself so it doesn't mean "stuff that sucks"?
Or you could just be an asshole. I recognize that that's your "thing" here and all, but give some thought to whether or not this is a particular place you want to go in your jerkdom.
And if you think I'm being oversensitive with this crap, all I can say is walk a mile or two in my ruby slippers first.
Guy, whether you like it or not that term is commonly used for something being "lame", in a way that has no reflection on yours or anyone else's sexuality.
I don't think most people mean it to say "shit, Marvel's Civil War miniseries is gay, as in the comic enjoys having sex with other male comics".
As for redefining, I don't think you got much argument there, given "gay"'s original meaning and its appropriation after the fact.
Do you really honestly think that this is in any way discriminatory against homosexuals, in the way that the thread title was intended? That it was meant to mean anything other than "lame"?
If so, you're being a little too sensitive. But you know, I like you, so on account of that sensitivity you're showing, I personally will not use the term "gay" to mean "lame" on here anymore. I will not, however, stop anyone else from doing so... of course, I won't stop you from asking them not to either.
RPGPundit
The funny thing is, I didn´t even know that Germans were supposed to have a leather fetish. They tell us, that it is "english" to like this...
Quote from: James McMurrayLOL
Dude, I know I can't change you. I wouldn't want to. My amusement at how stupid humanity can get would drop a ton if you were to somehow become a "normal" person. Besides, if I thought you capable of change I wouldn't think you were so pathetic.
I write useful stuff all the time. If you weren't a walking, talking caricature you'd realize that. Hell, I even tried to post some useful stuff over in the Amber forum today but your head is so far up your ass that you can't write three replies without foaming at the mouth about the swine, how great you are, and how if someone disagrees with you they're obviously brain damaged. That annoyed me a bit, especially when I then went to the threads that I've enjoyed reading lately to see you foaming at the mouth in those as well. The response was to reply to all your overblown BS, rather than just a bit here and there.
I suppose it's just that time of the month (week?, day?), and you're menstrating at the mouth again.
Yes, productive stuff like this. If we cut down your postcount to posts that were meant for something other than attacking me, we'd be down to the single digits.
Out of 760 posts, you have started precisely 7 threads in your time here. A couple of which were technical questions, and one of which was meant to be an overt attack thread against me. That leaves 4; and even those were questionable as to their baiting quality.
Jesus, you're the new Dominus! Its hilarious, at least Nox rolls on a fucking table to see what he rants about, at least he has like 3 or 4 topics that he might choose. You just seem to have one: me.
How sad.
RPGPundit
Quote from: SettembriniThe funny thing is, I didn´t even know that Germans were supposed to have a leather fetish. They tell us, that it is "english" to like this...
No, the English have a spanking fetish.
RPGPundit
But Germans like pie! As to "English" for the whips and leather thang, that's how I always understood it. :D
-clash
Quote from: RPGPunditGuy, whether you like it or not that term is commonly used for something being "lame", in a way that has no reflection on yours or anyone else's sexuality.
I don't think most people mean it to say "shit, Marvel's Civil War miniseries is gay, as in the comic enjoys having sex with other male comics".
As for redefining, I don't think you got much argument there, given "gay"'s original meaning and its appropriation after the fact.
Except that it's
very much an emasculating term that denigrates through the implication of homosexuality. That's
why it's insulting and bigoted. It's like defending the word "nigger" because it's just a bastardization of "negro," which originally meant black. So using it as an insulting term for
anyone, black or no, isn't racist.
And yes, I have heard
that exact same defense used in real life. By people just as willfully ignorant and evasive of what they're doing.
Did it not occur to you that if an entire community finds something offensive, it might just
be offensive?
Because saying "put up with it and deal" is just another fucking take on the oversensitive rebuttal I'd anticipated in that last post. Oh wait...
Quote from: RPGPunditIf so, you're being a little too sensitive.
And again, try
living as a gay man for awhile before you start preaching for me to be tolerant of bullshit like this.
Quote from: RPGPunditBut you know, I like you, so on account of that sensitivity you're showing, I personally will not use the term "gay" to mean "lame" on here anymore. I will not, however, stop anyone else from doing so... of course, I won't stop you from asking them not to either.
I truly appreciate that, and every little bit helps. You don't have to advocate tolerance to be tolerant. You just have to extend simple courtesies like this one.
So, whether or not you actually agree with the reasoning behind it, your concession gets a big :win: from me.
Quote from: jrientsI've got a beef pot pie on tap for lunch. I can share.
So Do I!
And we're in the same state! In Small college towns! And we're the same person!
I thought gay meant happy. ;)
Quote from: StuartI thought gay meant happy. ;)
And we all know how cheerful Wod is.
Quote from: StuartI thought gay meant happy. ;)
As in "We'll all dance gaily around the maypole"?
Sure, makes sense. Whose maypole didja have in mind?
I saw "RedFox" + Fox Icon + "I'm a Fox" + "Kitsune Mimi!" and I thought we'd be seeing a debate about.... something else. :)
Quote from: RedFoxExcept that it's very much an emasculating term that denigrates through the implication of homosexuality. That's why it's insulting and bigoted. It's like defending the word "nigger" because it's just a bastardization of "negro," which originally meant black. So using it as an insulting term for anyone, black or no, isn't racist.
And yes, I have heard that exact same defense used in real life. By people just as willfully ignorant and evasive of what they're doing.
Did it not occur to you that if an entire community finds something offensive, it might just be offensive?
Because saying "put up with it and deal" is just another fucking take on the oversensitive rebuttal I'd anticipated in that last post. Oh wait...
And again, try living as a gay man for awhile before you start preaching for me to be tolerant of bullshit like this.
I truly appreciate that, and every little bit helps. You don't have to advocate tolerance to be tolerant. You just have to extend simple courtesies like this one.
So, whether or not you actually agree with the reasoning behind it, your concession gets a big :win: from me.
What I get from this: If I were Gay and use Gay as a term it's a point of pride. In fact it is. If I were not gay and used it, it's automatically offensive to the entire GLB community.
Likewise: If I were black and said Nigger, I'd be upholding... something. If I were white and used it, I'm an insenstive Bigot.
Got it.
And yes, I realize that the Pundit's use of Gay as an insult adds negative connotations to the word. Of course, if we can acknowledge that, we can acknowledge that Gay was once a term for 'cheerful', and that its recent expropriation by the queer community removes a perfectly useful term from the lexicon. Wait... didn't queer once mean something else too?
Stop bristling your tail, little fox. Accept the term as used and feel free to say bad things about canadians or something.
The Pundit shouldn't use terms like 'gay' to mean 'lameness' for the simple reason that doing so completely throws the discussion off-topic. On a purely practical level -- independent of matters of sensitivity or equal respect -- use of such terms invariably throws a thread completely off track.
Quote from: RedFox... "negro," which originally meant black.
Still does, in Spanish.
I know what you mean, though.
In other news: Yeah, this
Monte Cook's World Of Darkness action is pretty wanky.
Quote from: joewolzI agree that the autistic line is terrible.
Maybe it was a typo. I think they meant "artistic children".
!i!
"In the World of Darkness, there are urban legends whispered into the ears of autistic artistic children by invisible spiders."
That would be a bit better.
Quote from: AkrasiaThe Pundit shouldn't use terms like 'gay' to mean 'lameness' for the simple reason that doing so completely throws the discussion off-topic. On a purely practical level -- independent of matters of sensitivity or equal respect -- use of such terms invariably throws a thread completely off track.
This is the truest argument thus far.
RPGPundit
Quote from: Stuart"In the World of Darkness, there are urban legends whispered into the ears of autistic artistic children by invisible spiders."
That would be a bit better.
I'm not sure if this would be more or less gothy...
RPGPundit
For some kind of reason I'm imagining a freckled girl with pig tails drawing her family, while a Jiminy-Cricket-like Spider arachnid silently mumbles "Did you know they once showed a nude picture in a Cinderella movie?"...
The next day, she turned goth.
Quote from: SosthenesDidn't they use that blurb (not the autistic spiders part) from the very beginning?
That "What is the World of Darkness?" paragraph is taken straight from the WoD corebook, page 17, spiders and all.
QuoteIn our world, there are urban legends. In the World of Darkness, there are urban legends whispered by alligators who live in the sewers.
There. That's better.
Quote from: GrimGentThat "What is the World of Darkness?" paragraph is taken straight from the WoD corebook, page 17, spiders and all.
So which is it... autistic or artistic children...?
Quote from: Dr Rotwang!There. That's better.
Doc - your aim is true. :D
-clash
Quote from: Dr Rotwang!In our world, there are urban legends. In the World of Darkness, there are urban legends whispered by alligators who live in the sewers.
There. That's better.
"In our world, there are urban legends. In the World of Darkness, there are urban legends whispered by sewer-dwelling alligators to grandmas who dry their poodles in the microwave."
better'er.
Quote from: RedFoxI truly appreciate that, and every little bit helps. You don't have to advocate tolerance to be tolerant. You just have to extend simple courtesies like this one.
So, whether or not you actually agree with the reasoning behind it, your concession gets a big :win: from me.
I don't think it goes far enough. From now on, I'm going to start using "gay" in less traditional descriptive roles.
After a tough weight workout, I may be seen to flex by turgid, straining biceps and proclaim proudly, "Check it out. My arms are getting
totally gay!"
Or, when watching a free safety lay a punishing hit on a wide receiver, I'll hop out of my chair and exclaim, "Damn! That hit was gay!"
I don't know if it will help the healing process, but it ought to be good for some interesting facial expressions.
Quote from: StuartSo which is it... autistic or artistic children...?
The former, just like it says on the site. That's from a section called "Midnight Stories" in the introductory chapter, "The Secret History".
I suppose autistic was a better choice because artistic children would just throw red paint on these invisible spiders, and then you would have all these red little spots all over..and it would look really creepy and mysterious, and the parents would be like "How the hell did all these red spots get all over the place" and little Timmy would say that his little sister was being a pest so he cast a spell on her and she burst and all that was left of her were a billion spots of blood.
Regards,
David R
Quote from: Divine HammerI don't think it goes far enough. From now on, I'm going to start using "gay" in less traditional descriptive roles.
After a tough weight workout, I may be seen to flex by turgid, straining biceps and proclaim proudly, "Check it out. My arms are getting totally gay!"
Or, when watching a free safety lay a punishing hit on a wide receiver, I'll hop out of my chair and exclaim, "Damn! That hit was gay!"
I don't know if it will help the healing process, but it ought to be good for some interesting facial expressions.
Do it, in a sports bar in Philly while watching NFL Sunday Ticket; that would be
rockin' gay! (Did I use it right?)
And on another note, I barely made my fortitude roll to avoid snorting hot chocolate when I reached "facial expressions", so take an "almost scalded sinus cavities" laugh point if you'd like.
Quote from: apparition13take an "almost scalded sinus cavities" laugh point if you'd like.
NO POINT MEMES KTHX.I have a score to settle with that ad copy. That ad copy broke into my house, beat me senseless, then raped my DS while I watched, helpless.
Storm's a comin'.
Quote from: David RI suppose autistic was a better choice because artistic children would just throw red paint on these invisible spiders, and then you would have all these red little spots all over..and it would look really creepy and mysterious, and the parents would be like "How the hell did all these red spots get all over the place" and little Timmy would say that his little sister was being a pest so he cast a spell on her and she burst and all that was left of her were a billion spots of blood.
That doesn't sound like the World of Darkness, it sounds like
Unknown Armies.
I think the writer may have used the term "Autistic children" to heighten the sense of dread and sadnedd because autistic children are more vulneralbe, hence the idea of them being preyed upon is more frightening and sadder.
At least that's my perception of the situation.
Quote from: Simon OwenIf the spiders are invisible , how does anyone know they are spiders , they could be any other type of insect for example.
They can feel that the spiders have eight legs instead of six?
Yeah, I'm reaching...
Really,
really bad text copy there.
Getting upset at the misuse of the word gay is so gay.
Those autistic kids bite, so it totally makes sense.
p.s. If there's anyone I haven't pissed off let me know..
Quote from: JimBobOzThat doesn't sound like the World of Darkness, it sounds like Unknown Armies.
I'm beginning to realize that
UA has had a more profound influence in the way how I run horror than I first suspected...
Regards,
David R
Using homophobic language is stupid enough but then refusing to back down when you're called on it is nothing short of cuntish.
Change the thread title Pundie... what are you, 13 years old?
This site is growing. I hope this forum is about folks who want to talk game, instead of threads which draw folks in because of stupid derailments where some try to out Lenny Bruce each other (and more often than not fail).
And yeah, change the title.
Regards,
David R
Quote from: Mr. AnalyticalUsing homophobic language is stupid enough but then refusing to back down when you're called on it is nothing short of cuntish.
Change the thread title Pundie... what are you, 13 years old?
And why can't other people just ignore things if they find them immature? Are they 13 years old, too?
Are we ALL 13 years old?
Level with me here, people! :)
(http://www.boingboing.net/images/_100_293022514_5bfd97ffcb.jpg)
My take on this... well, check out these alternate titles for the thread:
Monte's WoD Announcement: Niggerest Pretentiousness Ever?
Monte's WoD Announcement: Most Jewish Pretentiousness Ever?
Monte's WoD Announcement: Faggiest Pretentiousness Ever?
There would be little disagreement if the Pundit had used a racial slur in the thread title: we'd all be loudly condemning him.
I suspect the Pundit himself would think twice before using the term "Faggot" and its derivatives; it's almost entirely used in a derogatory manner. God Hates Fags, anyone?
So, considering that the term "gay" is being used in a derogatory manner here, and considering that the derogatory connotations of "gay" are bound up with the term's homosexual connotations, I'd say the thread title is just as inappropriate as any of the alternatives I've put up there. Especially since it's made a forum participant uncomfortable.
Pundit: while I'm all for the light moderation approach you've used on this site, I think you should bear in mind the precedent you are setting. Red Fox isn't happy about the title of this discussion; if the title stands, you're basically saying "It's okay to use language which makes homosexuals uncomfortable on these fora". And if that precedent it's set, that's inherently going to make this place less friendly to homosexuals.
Quote from: YamoAnd why can't other people just ignore things if they find them immature? Are they 13 years old, too?
Are we ALL 13 years old?
Level with me here, people! :)
If it was me (
of Asian origin), and there was racial slur (
forgetting about semantics for the moment) and people were just ignoring it,I'd probably go, "
okay, folks here are cool with this sort of thing" -
this may not be exactly true - and this would definitely make me feel uncomfortable.
I mean, this title is just another example of attention grabbing from the Pundit. We could all be talking about the so-called
Swine proper but hey, I could be wrong.
Regards,
David R
Look, I personally don't care for Pundit changing the title of the thread. He already said he'd refrain from using gay as a derogatory term in the future, and that's more'n enough for me.
Does the thread title suck? Yeah. Should it be edited? No.
The word was used. It was thrown out there. Pundit took responsibility for it. AFAI'm concerned, that's it.
I think it'd be, for lack of a better term, weasely to change it now.
Note also that the content of the original post threw around the "gay" invective left and right. A simple title edit wouldn't change the content of that post.
How many pages have we been discussing the use of the word "gay" for now? Mind you, I am of the opinion that it's use as a general term for suckage should die at age twelve-ish, but...
WTF DOES THIS DISCUSSION HAVE TO DO WITH ANYTHING!? MONTE COOKE. WOD. DISCUSS.
That and titles of threads, whatever they may contain should not be THAT FUCKING LONG. See, I kind of posted not knowing that the idiocy ORIGINATED IN THE TITLE.
For shame. All of you. On all counts.
Quote from: Simon OwenIf the spiders are invisible , how does anyone know they are spiders , they could be any other type of insect for example.
Does the WoD really need such whimsy ?
Spiders aren't insects, they're arachnids.
Quote from: Dominus NoxSpiders aren't insects, they're arachnids.
Not if you rip off two legs and install a thorax.
Quote from: beejazzNot if you rip off two legs and install a thorax.
:flameon:
Quote from: Mr. AnalyticalUsing homophobic language is stupid enough but then refusing to back down when you're called on it is nothing short of cuntish.
This from the guy with "vaginal sludge" under his name?
You know, as a crazy idea, you could talk about the topic of the thread. Like, the atrocious writing in World of Darkness books.
Quote from: WarthurMy take on this... well, check out these alternate titles for the thread:
Monte's WoD Announcement: Niggerest Pretentiousness Ever?
Monte's WoD Announcement: Most Jewish Pretentiousness Ever?
Monte's WoD Announcement: Faggiest Pretentiousness Ever?
There would be little disagreement if the Pundit had used a racial slur in the thread title: we'd all be loudly condemning him.
I suspect the Pundit himself would think twice before using the term "Faggot" and its derivatives; it's almost entirely used in a derogatory manner. God Hates Fags, anyone?
Well fuck, of course I would. The difference is that any of those terms are exclusively meant as denigrating attacks on a particular group (including "faggiest"), whereas "gay" has developed in general lingo as a term for inane or stupid without specifically being meant to be inciteful of hatred for any group.
I mean, really, you can argue whether or not it should be used in that way, just like you could with "retarded", but you can't deny that it IS used in that way, and often without any particular intention of associating it with homosexuality.
QuotePundit: while I'm all for the light moderation approach you've used on this site, I think you should bear in mind the precedent you are setting. Red Fox isn't happy about the title of this discussion; if the title stands, you're basically saying "It's okay to use language which makes homosexuals uncomfortable on these fora". And if that precedent it's set, that's inherently going to make this place less friendly to homosexuals.
Fox never actually asked me to change the title, and he seemed happy enough with me agreeing, out of a personal understanding with him, to not use the particular word in that connotation anymore on here. Its the rest of you who are making a big point of the current title...
RPGPundit
Quote from: RedFoxLook, I personally don't care for Pundit changing the title of the thread. He already said he'd refrain from using gay as a derogatory term in the future, and that's more'n enough for me.
Does the thread title suck? Yeah. Should it be edited? No.
The word was used. It was thrown out there. Pundit took responsibility for it. AFAI'm concerned, that's it.
I think it'd be, for lack of a better term, weasely to change it now.
I agree, and appreciate that view.
However, having found a much more appropriate term, I have changed it. :D
QuoteNote also that the content of the original post threw around the "gay" invective left and right. A simple title edit wouldn't change the content of that post.
Nope, and I stand by my position, because I know the word as I used it wasn't meant to be an attack on anyone's sexuality; it was meant to be an attack on the lameness that is White Wolf.
RPGPundit
Quote from: RPGPunditHowever, having found a much more appropriate term, I have changed it. :D
You're a mean old man....
Yay for bashing the Baugh-meister! He´s a fatbeard of utmost swinosity, and deserves all bad things being associated with him.
Hurrah... if people wanted to support making "Baugh" a synonym for stupidity and lameness I think that's something we could all get behind. He's far more deserving of such associations than gay people.
Quote from: YamoAnd why can't other people just ignore things if they find them immature? Are they 13 years old, too?
Because adults confront other adults when they're being bigotted twats. That way people work out that actually, talking in those kinds of terms isn't acceptable.
Let´s hope the new word catches on.
We should encourage it.
Quick! to YouTube!
"Dude that is SO baugh!"
Quote from: Mr. AnalyticalHurrah... if people wanted to support making "Baugh" a synonym for stupidity and lameness I think that's something we could all get behind. He's far more deserving of such associations than gay people.
Dude, he fucked up Gamma World. Bitch gets no respect from me.
I know someone will take this as joining in the dogpile on Mr. Baugh, but that's the best thread title change I've ever seen.
Quote from: jrientsI know someone will take this as joining in the dogpile on Mr. Baugh, but that's the best thread title change I've ever seen.
It's mean and crude and awful.
And I couldn't stop myself from laughing.
Quote from: Mr. AnalyticalBecause adults confront other adults when they're being bigotted twats. That way people work out that actually, talking in those kinds of terms isn't acceptable.
Word.
It's also precisely the sort of thing that would never happen at another site.
Quote from: Levi KornelsenIt's mean and crude and awful.
And I couldn't stop myself from laughing.
Same here. My first reaction was, "He changed the fucking title? Wh-BRUCE BAUGHINGLY?!"
I'm a bad, bad man for finding that amusing I'm sure.
You people are horrible. You're letting the actions of one Bruce Baugh lump them all together under one derogatory banner.
Quote from: RedFoxWord.
It's also precisely the sort of thing that would never happen at another site.
Yes; I'm obviously a strong believer in not legislating morality of any kind. I think legislating speech, be it on a website or in a university or by a country's laws, is ultimately counterproductive.
I think it is at the personal level that things like this have to be resolved, always. And it is at that level that they CAN be resolved, by virtue of people making choices about respecting other people
as individuals.
RPGPundit
Quote from: RPGPunditYes; I'm obviously a strong believer in not legislating morality of any kind. I think legislating speech, be it on a website or in a university or by a country's laws, is ultimately counterproductive.
I think it is at the personal level that things like this have to be resolved, always. And it is at that level that they CAN be resolved, by virtue of people making choices about respecting other people as individuals.
RPGPundit
Y'know sometimes I think you're coming from Crazy Town on the Insane Train but this post right here is fried gold.
Quote from: James McMurrayYou people are horrible. You're letting the actions of one Bruce Baugh lump them all together under one derogatory banner.
I don't mind people being Bruce Baugh in the privacy of their own homes but I don't like it when they rub it in my face. Some people seem to look upon being Bruce Baugh as their sole defining characteristic.
Quote from: RedFoxY'know sometimes I think you're coming from Crazy Town on the Insane Train but this post right here is fried gold.
"He had a plan. And, it was starting to make sense in a Tyler kind of way."
Quote from: Mr. AnalyticalI don't mind people being Bruce Baugh in the privacy of their own homes but I don't like it when they rub it in my face. Some people seem to look upon being Bruce Baugh as their sole defining characteristic.
Bah, the bosses are going to have requisition a new keyboard for me...sprayed coffee all over it after reading this post, I did....
...then my work is done.
I like the fact that Bruce Baugh has now literally become a by-word for lameness :D
Crappy ad print from an RPG company? Perish the thought! This stuff is par for the course IMO, and it's why in RPG ad print the Sturgeon Threshold of crap is raised from 90 to 98 percent.
Quote from: SettembriniThe funny thing is, I didn´t even know that Germans were supposed to have a leather fetish. They tell us, that it is "english" to like this...
Kyle: "I'll just try the first one. 'You must be 18 to enter this website.' Okay. 'Welcome to German Sick Fetish Video. If you are under 18, do not—' Well, okay."
German: "Du hast Scheiße gern."
Kyle: "Dude! It's a lady getting pooed on!"
Stan: "Whoa! Is it Cartman's mom?"
Cartman: "Oh. Very funny."
Kyle: "Hey! It is Cartman's mom!"
German: "Essen mein Scheiße."
Cartman's Mom: "All righty then."
Cartman: "Aw, son of a bitch!"
Stan: "Dude, what the fuck is wrong with german people??"
Cartman: Mom? If you were in a German "Scheiße" video, you... you'd tell me, right?
[short pause]
Mrs. Cartman: Sure, hon.
RPGpundit
Quote from: Mr. Analytical...then my work is done.
I like the fact that Bruce Baugh has now literally become a by-word for lameness :D
But wait: is he gay?
Dude, you are so gonna hear it from the gays for insinuating that he is one of them.
Quote from: Divine HammerBut wait: is he gay?
That depends upon what gay means. Is gay..."happy", "lame", or "homosexual"? :)
I was watching "Donnie Brasco" last night, and these two FBI agents ask Johnny Depp what "forgetaboutit" means. I can't remember the exact words he used, but basically "forgetaboutit" means different things. It usually has different meanings based upon tone of voice and the context of the conversation. But he also said, sometimes "forgetaboutit" just means "forget about it". :)
Incidentally, I haven't read the latest incarnation of Gamma World. Is it as bad as I've heard?
Quote from: Sacrificial LambIncidentally, I haven't read the latest incarnation of Gamma World. Is it as bad as I've heard?
I've met at least one person who liked it actually. But he wasn't at all a fan of the originals, and hadn't ever played them.
Everyone who DOES like the originals, seems to hate it with a passion. Because, frankly, it's absolutely not the same game as Gamma Worlds 1-5.
It's Baugh's attempt at a "Serious realistic" post-apoc world, with the Gamma World license slapped on the cover. Pundit claims even that he did this on purpose, to teach the rest of us a "lesson", but I've yet to see a source for it.
It also sold like ass, and WW had to pull it from print and sell the license back to WotC because no one was buying it.
Bruce Baugh also is not above running around the intarweb and telling people Pundit should get Anti-Depression Happy-Pills. With a straight face.
Hell, shouldn't we all get Happy Pills?
Only Commies and Mutants need Happy-Pills.
Then sign me up for both of them so I can get a double dose.
Although, if possible I'd like to be a human-looking x-Man type of mutie with a fully controllable power. Can that be arranged?
Quote from: James McMurrayAlthough, if possible I'd like to be a human-looking x-Man type of mutie with a fully controllable power. Can that be arranged?
Dude, have your character stick his head in the microwave. That's totally how Steve became Radiation Man.
Quote from: SettembriniBruce Baugh also is not above running around the intarweb and telling people Pundit should get Anti-Depression Happy-Pills. With a straight face.
Yeah... that is a bit rich. Ritalin and Viagra would be more fitting.
Quote from: RedFoxDude, have your character stick his head in the microwave. That's totally how Steve became Radiation Man.
I tried, but it won't turn on with the door open. Maybe I can special order a microwave the size of a closet.
Quote from: James McMurrayI tried, but it won't turn on with the door open. Maybe I can special order a microwave the size of a closet.
It can be part of the secret lair.
Sweet!
Quote from: James McMurrayHell, shouldn't we all get Happy Pills?
You guys don't have Happy Pills?
Mine are multicolored, and very, very sweet. Some have hearts on them.
MDMA, fools.
This thread calls for Bruce Baugh's World of Darkness
Picture of PunditCat follows:
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l241/fonkaygarry/pundy2.jpg)
Quote from: droogMDMA, fools.
THC all the way, yo.
Quote from: RedFoxTHC all the way, yo.
PunditCat, bitchos.
Quote from: fonkaygarryPunditCat, bitchos.
Why does PunditCat not understand broccoli?
Quote from: RedFoxWhy does PunditCat not understand broccoli?
Does anybody
truly understand the mysteries of that enigmatic vegetable?
Quote from: jrientsDoes anybody truly understand the mysteries of that enigmatic vegetable?
Borcoli is no vegetable. It is, in fact, a forest. In Montana. It merely projects its lesser self onto your consciousness from there.
Quote from: J ArcaneEveryone who DOES like the originals, seems to hate it with a passion. Because, frankly, it's absolutely not the same game as Gamma Worlds 1-5.
As a fan of the original GW (1st and 4th ed), I don't think it's as awful as most people make it out to be. Mind you, I don't think it's
great by any means, but it has some usable, stealable bits in it.
It's just that it has
no business actually calling itself Gamma World.
Quote from: KnightskyAs a fan of the original GW (1st and 4th ed), I don't think it's as awful as most people make it out to be. Mind you, I don't think it's great by any means, but it has some usable, stealable bits in it.
It's just that it has no business actually calling itself Gamma World.
Well, that was kinda what I was referring to, sorry I idn't make that clear.
The complaints seem to run along the lines of what you just said: It has absolutely nothing to do with Gamma World.
Quote from: fonkaygarryThis thread calls for Bruce Baugh's World of Darkness
Picture of PunditCat follows:
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l241/fonkaygarry/pundy2.jpg)
My God. That's such an
adorable and cute picture! :)
And I'm a dog person ...
Quote from: J ArcaneWell, that was kinda what I was referring to, sorry I idn't make that clear.
The complaints seem to run along the lines of what you just said: It has absolutely nothing to do with Gamma World.
See, I vaguely remember flipping through it in the game store, and didn't it have nanotech, and completely lacked mutant plants? I have Gamma World 4th Edition (which I like), and I remember it being different (originally).
Did they forget what Gamma World is supposed to be, or what?
Quote from: AkrasiaMy God. That's such an adorable and cute picture! :)
And I'm a dog person ...
I'm taking that cat home with me. So back off; he's mine! :mad: :D
Quote from: Sacrificial LambSee, I vaguely remember flipping through it in the game store, and didn't it have nanotech, and completely lacked mutant plants? I have Gamma World 4th Edition (which I like), and I remember it being different (originally).
Did they forget what Gamma World is supposed to be, or what?
AS I recall, it doesn't have any mutants at all, but I may have been misinformed, and it's been a while since I thumbed through it (and at that point I had no familiarity with the GW games beyond occasional praise for the older games).
And as I said, to hear Pundit tell it, the reason has to do with Mr. Baugh thinking that the gonzo "wild and wahoo" style of play was badwrongfun and wanting to teach all of us roleplayers how we're supposed to be playing.
Gamma World with no mutants? String the bastard up.
I'm truly far gone, I look at the Punditcat pic and all I can think of is "what kind of pipe is that? Its got a beautiful flame grain!".
RPGPundit
Quote from: J ArcaneAnd as I said, to hear Pundit tell it, the reason has to do with Mr. Baugh thinking that the gonzo "wild and wahoo" style of play was badwrongfun and wanting to teach all of us roleplayers how we're supposed to be playing.
Baugh said as much on RPG.net.
RPGPundit
Quote from: RPGPunditI'm truly far gone, I look at the Punditcat pic and all I can think of is "what kind of pipe is that? Its got a beautiful flame grain!".
RPGPundit
Oddly enough, I had the same thought, and I haven't smoked a pipe for years now.
Quote from: RPGPunditI'm truly far gone, I look at the Punditcat pic and all I can think of is "what kind of pipe is that? Its got a beautiful flame grain!".
RPGPundit
But are you mystified by broccoli? That's what we need to know!
Quote from: fonkaygarryBut are you mystified by broccoli? That's what we need to know!
Well... umm... sort of?
RPGPundit
Quote from: RPGPunditWell... umm... sort of?
RPGPundit
Good enough for me.
It is an open secret that Pundit has a weak spot for cats. ;)
Quote from: JongWKIt is an open secret that Pundit has a weak spot for cats. ;)
Good.
Everyone should love cats.
My cat told me so.
Quote from: J ArcaneAS I recall, [Gamma World 4th Edition] doesn't have any mutants at all, but I may have been misinformed, and it's been a while since I thumbed through it (and at that point I had no familiarity with the GW games beyond occasional praise for the older games).
If that's true, then that's like writng a
Miami Vice game with, like, no druglords in it.
Quote from: SettembriniOnly Commies and Mutants need Happy-Pills.
Wait, isn't someone going to tell us that anti-depression medications are
not happy-pills and that it is dehumanizing and degrading to discuss a serious psychiatric condition in such flippant terms?
And then, isn't someone going to tell us about how his friend committed suicide so references to depression are very painful to him and that we shouldn't even mention depression in passing unless we have suffered as he has?
Anti-depression medications are not happy-pills, and it is dehumanizing and degrading to discuss a serious psychiatric condition in such flippant terms.
My friend committed suicide, so references to depression are very painful to me and you lot shouldn't even mention depression in passing unless you have suffered as I have.
Quote from: Levi KornelsenAnti-depression medications are not happy-pills, and it is dehumanizing and degrading to discuss a serious psychiatric condition in such flippant terms.
My friend committed suicide, so references to depression are very painful to me and you lot shouldn't even mention depression in passing unless you have suffered as I have.
Thanks for trying to help, Levi, but I just realized I wasn't on the other site. My bad.
Quote from: Levi KornelsenGood.
Everyone should love cats.
My cat told me so.
I love cats... they taste like chicken!
Quote from: Divine HammerThanks for trying to help, Levi, but I just realized I wasn't on the other site. My bad.
Ah, I see.
I believe that the response that all the cool kids are using would be 'Oh, snap!'.
Such as it is.
Quote from: NYTFLYRI love cats... they taste like chicken!
You know why cats lick their paws?
They taste
great.
Go on, try it.
Quote from: J ArcaneAS I recall, it doesn't have any mutants at all, but I may have been misinformed
Whatever other faults Baugh's GW has, it is not lacking in mutants and mutations.
Quote from: Levi KornelsenThey taste great.
They do indeed! Fried, sauteed, baked, they're yummy no matter how you prepare them!
I'm getting ALF flashbacks right now...
Quote from: KnightskyWhatever other faults Baugh's GW has, it is not lacking in mutants and mutations.
*whew* That'd've been the very definition of "missing the point".
The main book has a paltry few mutations. But what's worse is that they're NOTHING like the mutations of previous GWs. Its not done for laughs, its not done for gonzo, its not even done for coolness; its done to satisfy his grubby little ideas about nanites or ecological disaster or whatever the fuck he was on about in his UNBELIEVABLY STUPID FUCKING GAME.
RPGPundit
Quote from: KnightskyThey do indeed! Fried, sauteed, baked, they're yummy no matter how you prepare them!
Even with brocoli!
What about Adventure!? I thought that was pretty good.
Hollow Earth Expedition is better, though.
Quote from: RPGPunditThe main book has a paltry few mutations. But what's worse is that they're NOTHING like the mutations of previous GWs. Its not done for laughs, its not done for gonzo, its not even done for coolness; its done to satisfy his grubby little ideas about nanites or ecological disaster or whatever the fuck he was on about in his UNBELIEVABLY STUPID FUCKING GAME.
RPGPundit
So he "Baughed" it? :)
Edit: I took a look at a review of the latest incarnation of Gamma World, and it's COMPLETELY different from what I know Gamma World to be. I don't think I'm gonna like it. :(
I've read the "Omega World" d20 game from Polyhedron though. Good stuff there. :)
Quote from: The ThreadAnti-depressant stuff.
I was on anti-depressants for years after a depressive breakdown while I was in college the first time. They turned my life around.
People make fun of them, I don't give a shit. They worked for me. :)
Any chance Bruce Baugh will show up here and try to outlame Luke? i know what
I want for Christmas.
If you can't be a sentient motile plant with telekenetic powers and a big-ass lazergun, it isn't Gamma World.
Quote from: WerekoalaIf you can't be a sentient motile plant with telekenetic powers and a big-ass lazergun, it isn't Gamma World.
On this, I can agree wholeheartedly.
Can there ever be a "real" Gamma World again? I know Dungeon put out that Omega World supplement, but I was thinking about something with big cardboad covers.
Quote from: WerekoalaIf you can't be a sentient motile plant with telekenetic powers and a big-ass lazergun, it isn't Gamma World.
In the version I was weaned on (2e, I think), plants weren't an option unless you had a certain Dragon article.
It was mutant human, pure strain human, mutant animal. I had an albino panther who self replicated and projected a death field.
I'm pretty convinced it was Gamma World. :)
Quote from: fonkaygarryCan there ever be a "real" Gamma World again?
Can there be one? Sure.
Will WotC (or some other d20 company) produce one that does it justice. Not likely.
I've convinced myself the same thing about Planescape.
Quote from: Dr Rotwang!What about Adventure!? I thought that was pretty good.
Yeah, I kinda liked that one, too. Wasn't he also one of the principles on
Nexus: The Infinite City? I've heard good things about that one.
Quote from: jrientsWasn't he also one of the principles on Nexus: The Infinite City? I've heard good things about that one.
It's quite okay. Kult's METROPOLIS is still cooler, but for freaky multi-dimensional stuff the setting is alright. The rules aren't that bad either. Baugh is one of eight people who got writing credit.
Quote from: RedFoxTHC all the way, yo.
Yes, but for special occasions....
Quote from: SosthenesIt's quite okay. Kult's METROPOLIS is still cooler, but for freaky multi-dimensional stuff the setting is alright. The rules aren't that bad either. Baugh is one of eight people who got writing credit.
Baugh wrote for Kult? No way! People who wrote for Kult were chain-smoking neurotics who spent their days reading Crowley and Bukowski and spend all their money on blow and $1500 a night hookers.
He must have made the tea and taken things to the post office.
Quote from: Mr. AnalyticalBaugh wrote for Kult? No way! People who wrote for Kult were chain-smoking neurotics who spent their days reading Crowley and Bukowski and spend all their money on blow and $1500 a night hookers.
He must have made the tea and taken things to the post office.
I think he meant "Baugh wrote for Nexus, which wasn't as cool as Kult."
I think.
Omega World is awesome. If anyone should write D20 Gamma World for real, it should be Jonathan Tweet.
RPGPundit
Quote from: Mr. AnalyticalBaugh wrote for Kult? No way! People who wrote for Kult were chain-smoking neurotics who spent their days reading Crowley and Bukowski and spend all their money on blow and $1500 a night hookers.
I'm just saying that Kult's Metropolis is a better city than Nexus.
Kult was written by Scandivanians. You can't read enough or take enough drugs to actually emulate their mindset. The average swedish school boy would make Hunter Thompson and Lovecraft cry.
A likely cause is swedish school girls. Overload.
Kult is the happy fun game compared to Tribe 8. Just stop and think about what Tribe 8 is telling you, and about the implications thereof. I mean, Tribe 8 makes baby Cthulhu cry.
Of course, Kult is a close second. Tons of anguish, despair, cynicism, defeatism, and piss poor attitude. If it is anything like an accurate portrayal of the Swedish zeitgeist, it's no wonder they turned the Germanic trickster god Wodan into the psychopathic perversion of Jesus of Nazareth, Odin.
Quote from: J ArcaneI've met at least one person who liked it actually. But he wasn't at all a fan of the originals, and hadn't ever played them.
That'll be me and I withdraw it utterly. With the exception of a couple of ideas (the concept of arguing with your artificially intelligent gun about whether the charging beastie is an endangered species or not and the template that turns you a mangaesque crime fighter and assigns you the duty of protecting a city), all of the awesomeness in GW d20 is nicked from previous editions. The psy rules are hideously bad, there isn't enough mutations (20 IIRC) and the community-generating rules in one of the supplements were an
anti-inspiration for the ones I've written for YotZ: Havens
QuotePeople make fun of them, I don't give a shit. They worked for me.
Well, you don´t run around and select people who should take some too, yes?
Cause that´s what the Baugh-meister did.
I'd sooner play Synnibarr than Baugh's version of Gamma World.
Quote from: mythusmage... Just stop and think about what Tribe 8 is telling you, and about the implications thereof....
I don't know anything about Tribe 8. What is it trying to tell me? :confused:
Quote from: AkrasiaI don't know anything about Tribe 8. What is it trying to tell me? :confused:
Humanity is royally fucked, and is being used for the amusement of those the tribes call saviours. At least the fiends in
Kult don't lie to you about what they intend for you.
Quote from: RPGPunditOmega World is awesome. If anyone should write D20 Gamma World for real, it should be Jonathan Tweet.
RPGPundit
If anything, Omega World should be the next Gamma World. I don't remember if Omega World has mutant plants though.
Quote from: Sacrificial LambIf anything, Omega World should be the next Gamma World. I don't remember if Omega World has mutant plants though.
No, it had pretty much everything else though; remember it was a mini-game after all. A larger book would have been able to include a lot more, and I assume that mutant plants would not have been ignored as part of that.
RPGpundit
Quote from: Bradford C. WalkerI'd sooner play Synnibarr than Baugh's version of Gamma World.
Me too. In all seriousness,
World of Synnibarr seems to be much closer to the loony essence of earlier
Gamma Worlds.
Quote from: Dr Rotwang!What about Adventure!? I thought that was pretty good.
well you need to consider how many people were involved with that project.
Besides which adventure not only had a meta-plot tying it to WW's other supers games but half its page count was a shitty piece of game fiction (allbeit one written by a proper writer) rather than useful stuff you'd want to put in your game.
the rules are good but Adventure!'s far from the perfect game.