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Looks like Monte's teamed up with Bruce Cordell for a second major RPG

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1433901524/the-strange-a-tabletop-rpg-by-bruce-cordell-and-mo

This one looks really intriguing.   Time to get out my card again.  Wonder if it will be as successful as the other one.

Looks like he's using the same general Numenera system as a base for this one.

It sounds ok but $25 for a pdf or $60 for a rulebook that I may or may not play is too steep for me.

Hee. I think i posted an idea very similar to this to design & development a goodly number of years ago. Great minds think alike and all that. ;)

I'm interested, but I only signed onto Numenera when the stretch goals were such that for a small investment, I got a *fuckton* of PDFs.  

I'll do something similar with this one.  And if it doesn't happen?  *shrug* There's nothing about this that screams "killer app" to me.

I'm certain it's going to happen--he's asking for $60,000 and he's already at $25,000+.  It's only been a few hours.

Interestingly enough, there's a lot of "whales" (to use Casino terminology)--25 people are paying $450 to receive all the print books in the first cycle.

Monte must be the Stephen King of gaming right now...

And the countdown to the obligtory rage thread on the bulging pimple which is immediately locked after the designers show up begins... now.

Just as a matter of interest is this the first anyone has ever heard of this game, or were there rumbles and preambles that never reached these shores?

If I squint my eyes and turn my head sideways it kind of sounds like TORG.

Quote from: daniel_ream;700112If I squint my eyes and turn my head sideways it kind of sounds like TORG.

Or Lords of Creation.

Quote from: The Traveller;700107Just as a matter of interest is this the first anyone has ever heard of this game, or were there rumbles and preambles that never reached these shores?

Monte Cook posted something about it yesterday on his Facebook and through Kickstarter -- that was the first I heard of it.

Quote from: One Horse Town;700099Hee. I think i posted an idea very similar to this to design & development a goodly number of years ago. Great minds think alike and all that. ;)

Happens to me regularly. Happened with a few of my ideas versus Monte Cook's over time, actually. I would get a cool concept or name or idea out of my brain, start to take some notes and whatnot about it, only to find out that some other guy, like Monte Cook, came up with something very similar in roughly the same time frame. Hehe. :D

I guess because we're all feeding off some of the same influences, statistically speaking, we're bound to arrive to some fairly similar combinations, from time to time, sooner rather than later.

The concept of alternate Earths and how worlds could blend into one another is something that is part of my multi-game campaign's foundations (http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?t=26999) and something I've been thinking about for decades, actually. Guess I can blame Mike Moorcock on this one.

I backed Numenera, but I'm not backing this: the setting does not interest me and i have just so much time/money.

Monte Cook and his team have delivered very good stuff with Numenera IMHO so I wish them the best of luck, they sure have c0|0nes to go for another -very similar- Kickstarter while already working on one.

(And my bet was on GW 4e: Bruce Cordell working on it and all that nearby dimensions stuff...)

... and as of right now they have collected 42.000$ out of 60.000$
I guess they are going to get this one too.

They can fuck right off with the shipping wankery. Fulfilment is going to be a nightmare for them.

Game idea sounds all right, though.

Actually they are being pretty responsible for the shipping costs.  Kickstarter allows international orders without having a system to easilly make adjustments based on location like a store.  I hear a lot of kickstarters have had profits eaten by too many international backers.

Also, I know people will want to upgrade to 2 day shipping, etc.

I can attest to shipping nightmares with international shipping.  

If we do another Kickstarter, all international shipping will have a flat $50 per book attached.  

You may think that's excessive, but one book to Australia was $67 and one to Canada was $35 and one to UK was $45.

I'm also looking for POD printers in those locations where I can "drop-print" a copy to them locally to save money.  Still haven't found those, yet.

I backed this at the $25 tier (that is, core PDF only). $50 for the digital pack is too much for me, but maybe if the KS unlocks a lot of digital stretch goals I may consider it.

The setting looks like a cross between Planescape and Fringe (they even say it on the description), which may or may not be something that appeals to people (It does appeal to me.. a lot).

The Numenera system is a very cool one, so I'm sure that system-wise the game is going to be solid.

In for $60. Already funded.

I definitely want to back it, I'm a huge fan of the Numenera mechanics and the setting of The Strange sounds cool too, but man my money is tight right now. (my entertainment budget got eaten up by getting into the Lord of the Rings LCG recently... and then going on a spending spree to buy half of the existing sets).

I'll probably drop in on it late after my next paycheck. (Monthly paychecks are both really nice, and really annoying.)

Quote from: Ben Rogers;700118Monte Cook posted something about it yesterday on his Facebook and through Kickstarter -- that was the first I heard of it.

That's insane. So mostly by sheer force of reputation he decided to launch an entirely new line of games and whipped up sixty grand in the first day. Is this just social media in action or is he actually doing some heavy marketing elsewhere?

I think right now, Monte Cook might be the closest thing RPGs have to a rock star.

Quote from: Emperor Norton;700216I think right now, Monte Cook might be the closest thing RPGs have to a rock star.

I think you might be right...

Quote from: JRT;700144Actually they are being pretty responsible for the shipping costs.  Kickstarter allows international orders without having a system to easilly make adjustments based on location like a store.  I hear a lot of kickstarters have had profits eaten by too many international backers.

Those pesky non-Americans, daring to buy product!

I've got no objections to being charged for shipping, because it's bloody expensive (Although it would be appreciated if the American firms could work out some distribution point in Europe and maybe other major regions, to make it easier for those customers...). But I object to companies undercharging and then complaining that they lost money. Yeah, no shit! You sold a service for less than the cost!

I'd much rather see kickstarting firms say "we are going to send you an X mm by Y xx by Z mm box weighing AA kg, so that's how much you need to add to your pledge to get it to you, and here's a link to USPS if you don't believe us".

What annoys me about this is the offloading of effort into researching shipping onto the customers. I can also see it being a logistical nightmare, unless they've got a comprehensive system in place to handle it.

Take, say, Call of Cthulhu 7. I'm getting the hardback set, with all the extra STUFF in there. No way that is going to cost only $25ish to ship to me, because that's going to be a deep and heavy box. But Chaosium can't suddenly turn around and complain about it! That's what they told me to pay, so I did. If they wanted me to pay something else, they should have said.

Quote from: Ben Rogers;700167You may think that's excessive, but one book to Australia was $67 and one to Canada was $35 and one to UK was $45.

I'm also looking for POD printers in those locations where I can "drop-print" a copy to them locally to save money.  Still haven't found those, yet.

DTRPG uses Lightning Source in the UK, and they print good books. Not sure about Lulu, or anywhere else. Dunno if they'll do the job for you, but Crawford used DTRPG for fulfilling the Spears kickstarter.

Not backing because I'm not really convinced it makes sense to make this a separate product as opposed to a supplement for Numenera. After all, if Numenera is Monte's D&D by other means and this is his Planescape by other means...

Ditto on all the shipping complaints.

Going to just get the PDFs this time. Save on shipping and being trolled by GenConners getting the book first.

Quote from: Warthur;700243Not backing because I'm not really convinced it makes sense to make this a separate product as opposed to a supplement for Numenera. After all, if Numenera is Monte's D&D by other means and this is his Planescape by other means...

Then Monte's been spending a heck of a lot of time looking at Fantasy Flight's RPG model?
:D

Quote from: JamesV;700395Then Monte's been spending a heck of a lot of time looking at Fantasy Flight's RPG model?
:D

Not the same thing. All Warhammer 40k games share the same setting, while (as far as we know) there is no relation between Numenera and The Strange other than the fact they share the same system.

Personally, I'm very happy that Monte made this a whole new line rather than a supplement for Numenera. I don't like to be forced to buy an extra book just to be able to play the game I want (one of the reasons I never got into NWoD, the lack of stand alone cores). If The Strange had been a supplement for Numenera, I'd had never back it.

That said, I do understand why someone who already owns Numenera would have prefer it as a supplement, but market-wise I think it was the right choice.

$60 for a full cover hardcover with shipping isn't bad.  Pretty much every Frog God KS is $100+ for a hardcover.


I really don't understand what has happened to the price of international shipping this last ten years. It's gotten insane. Way, way more than the cost of fuel prices.

Quote from: JeremyR;700454$60 for a full cover hardcover with shipping isn't bad.  Pretty much every Frog God KS is $100+ for a hardcover.


I really don't understand what has happened to the price of international shipping this last ten years. It's gotten insane. Way, way more than the cost of fuel prices.

Dollar inflation?

Quote from: JeremyR;700454I really don't understand what has happened to the price of international shipping this last ten years. It's gotten insane. Way, way more than the cost of fuel prices.

And yet I can still order things from China at zero shipping cost, albeit a bit more slowly.

I use DrivethruRPG to print my books, and I've sent them to Uruguay, Estonia, Lithuania, Finland, and God knows where else for generally no more than the US shipping (around $5 for the base mail price). It takes a while, but it sure beats USPS standard rates.

Quote from: The Traveller;700215That's insane. So mostly by sheer force of reputation he decided to launch an entirely new line of games and whipped up sixty grand in the first day. Is this just social media in action or is he actually doing some heavy marketing elsewhere?

He's been active on the Social Media circuit but I didn't see any hints of this in either Twitter or elsewhere.  I found out when I got a Kickstarter e-mail from the Numenera project about it--so I think most people found out Yesterday.

He's obviously doing something right.  There are some name creators but they are few in this industry.  And most big names however don't pass their creation much--guys like Ed Greenwood, Hickman & Weiss and R.A. Salvatore don't do as well outside their famous creations (Forgotten Realms, DragonLance Heroes, Drizzt).  Even Gary Gygax never had as much of a following when he did his own thing as opposed to anything D&D related.  There are guys like John Wick, S. John Ross, and others who do their own thing but they don't seem to have the numbers Monte has.

I found it interesting that Numenera was the biggest Tabletop RPG that wasn't based on an already established existing property (World of Darkness, FATE, CoC).  He's established himself as not just the guy who writes "D20 stuff".  My guess is he's the biggest name in Tabletop RPGs in this day and age.

(Also should point out Bruce Cordell is likely the lead developer on this one.)

He's received over $100,000 in less than 24 hours now...

What's interesting are the Whales of the Kickstarter...70+ people have purchased a $450 package that gives them all the print products up until 2015!

Quote from: Ladybird;700135Fulfilment is going to be a nightmare for them.

Yes, it does seem like a flat shipping rate would have been much easier on them and on the backers.

I can't imagine having to ask 800+ people how they want their product shipped, then having to tell them they have to pay more if they're international, or if they're USA backers who want FedEx, or UPS, or USPS tracking, or USPS insurance, or USPS priority mail, etc.

THEN MCG says that they'lltrack if the backer paid more in shipping than what the shipping actually cost, and give them that difference as a store credit on another site.

That's a hell of a lot of work to distract from actually working on the product, unless they've just got an intern or fulfillment company that will take care of all that for them.

Quote from: Mark Plemmons;700599That's a hell of a lot of work to distract from actually working on the product, unless they've just got an intern or fulfillment company that will take care of all that for them.

I think the safe money is on a fulfillment company. Which leads me to a question that's been bubbling in my head for a while.

Did Kickstarter create the fulfillment industry or just provide fulfillment companies exposure by providing a bumper crop of potential customers?

Quote from: JRT;700586He's been active on the Social Media circuit but I didn't see any hints of this in either Twitter or elsewhere.  I found out when I got a Kickstarter e-mail from the Numenera project about it--so I think most people found out Yesterday.

Astonishing, so he fired up a facebook comment, sent out a few emails, and gets six figures in a day. He should license out his name, claim he's involved in designing games in exchange for a cut of the takings.

Bloody hell, a day in and over $100k. I suppose if we are wondering who the 'rock stars' of the RPG world are one need look no further than this fellow.

Shows as well that there's plenty of money (relatively speaking) out there in the RPG market, you just need the ability to tap into it and Cook has that, in spades. Impressed.

Not impressed enough to actually back the game mind, but still impressed :)

I've backed, not because of Monte's name, but because I've played Numenera and really enjoyed it. I suspect a lot of the other early backers are similar - MCG sent out a message to all Numenera backers telling them that The Strange Kickstarter was live.

There were breadcrumbs dropped by Monte, Bruce and Shanna too, about a week before the Kickstarter went live. So if you were active in the Numenera community you already new something was coming.

Yes yes yes, that's all good and fine.

But at what level do I have to back, to get access to the new man-eating succubus?!?

Quote from: DKChannelBoredom;700682Yes yes yes, that's all good and fine.

But at what level do I have to back, to get access to the new man-eating succubus?!?

60 bucks, but more importantly, you need to pay with your parents' credit card.

Quote from: JRT;700105Interestingly enough, there's a lot of "whales" (to use Casino terminology)--25 people are paying $450 to receive all the print books in the first cycle.

I can't figure out the economics of that one. Subtract the $60 for the core rulebook and then divide by an average price of $25 for the other products and they'd need to release 15+ products between August 2014 and December 2015 in order to just break even on that.

Which isn't impossible, but does outstrip their existing schedule of releases by a significant margin.

Or, to put it another way, they need to release 10 products in those 17 months that AREN'T part of this kickstarter to make this tier break even with the $200 tier. (And that's assuming a $25 average price, which is higher than what they're currently averaging.)

Quote from: The Traveller;700215That's insane. So mostly by sheer force of reputation he decided to launch an entirely new line of games and whipped up sixty grand in the first day. Is this just social media in action or is he actually doing some heavy marketing elsewhere?

MCG released buzz over the past two weeks through their existing fan communities.

Also keep in mind that a successful Kickstarter is a long-term marketing bonanza: MCG has the ability to easily communicate with 4,600+ backers from the Numenera kickstarter. Just 20% of those backers is enough to put The Strange at $122,000.

I've been thinking long and hard about Kickstarter and RPGs recently and the conclusion I've come to is that I think I'm done with them.  For two main reasons:

First.  It's not that I don't want to support these games and designers, but the costs of international shipping from the US to the UK are so high at the moment that it's almost doubling the pledge total in a lots of cases.

Second.  The time involved.  I mean we're being asked to upfront a not inconsiderable amount of cash for game that unlikely to be delivered on time.  Classic example is CoC 7th Ed, the delivery estimate for that has gone from "We will have these books in your hands by Halloween 2013" to "We might be able to get them to you for March-April 2014 but we're not promising anything".

What I expect I'll end up doing is picking up a copy of the main book once it gets to the UK Gaming stores.  It'll save me an enormous amount of money on shipping and means I can just keep an eye out for the book in Leisure Games new releases. :)

Quote from: The Traveller;700658Astonishing, so he fired up a facebook comment, sent out a few emails, and gets six figures in a day. He should license out his name, claim he's involved in designing games in exchange for a cut of the takings.

Wasn't that what Iron Heroes was. :p Mike Mearls did most of the work, and Monte just put a big MONTE COOK PRESENTS on the cover.

So are we now saying he should go from being a rock star to owning a record label?

I think i'm gonna wait for the UK store release on this one as it looks good but the shipping just isnt worth it.

Quote from: UberMunchkin;700858First.  It's not that I don't want to support these games and designers, but the costs of international shipping from the US to the UK are so high at the moment that it's almost doubling the pledge total in a lots of cases.

Since I'm in a similar situation, what I'm doing is only backing projects for the PDFs. While I understand why people like to have a dead tree version, PDFs are usually a good deal for us international backers. If you later on find out you love the game, most of the time you can purchase a physical copy on a store later on.

Quote from: Justin Alexander;700850MCG released buzz over the past two weeks through their existing fan communities.

Ah there you go.

Quote from: Justin Alexander;700850Also keep in mind that a successful Kickstarter is a long-term marketing bonanza: MCG has the ability to easily communicate with 4,600+ backers from the Numenera kickstarter. Just 20% of those backers is enough to put The Strange at $122,000.

More mid term I'd say, if they keep milking that cow it'll run dry sooner rather than later.

Quote from: Maese Mateo;700875Since I'm in a similar situation, what I'm doing is only backing projects for the PDFs. While I understand why people like to have a dead tree version, PDFs are usually a good deal for us international backers. If you later on find out you love the game, most of the time you can purchase a physical copy on a store later on.

I can totally see how that might work for you but it just doesn't for me I'm afraid.  The PDF version of a gaming book is great for reference purposes but reading an entire gaming tome via PDF is a non-starter for me.  Plus a lot of physical book purchases now come with a PDF copy anyway.

I don't wish them any ill and I will still promote the projects to friends of mine who may be interested in backing them but until the cost of shipping becomes more reasonable I'm going to avoid them entirely.

I'm rather tired of Monte's schtick, but it seems many are not.  Bully for them and I suppose bully for Monte.

If it's anywhere near Numenera's quality, then I'll be getting it eventually, for sure. Not backing it though, it's not like it needs any more backers I'm sure. :D But I'll surely be considering it. Numenera basically changed my views of the dude from "skilled sure but not my thing" to "frickin' rpg genius".

Quote from: The Traveller;700878Ah there you go.


More mid term I'd say, if they keep milking that cow it'll run dry sooner rather than later.

The Numenera kickstarter was over a year ago already, so they're not coming back too often.

Quote from: Ladybird;700233I've got no objections to being charged for shipping, because it's bloody expensive (Although it would be appreciated if the American firms could work out some distribution point in Europe and maybe other major regions, to make it easier for those customers...)

Too expensive for small volumes like we're talking about.

Not necessarily, Arduin - Chaosium have got some European distribution going on CoC 7th Edition, though to be fair that's thanks to their prior relationship with the French CoC licencees.

Quote from: Warthur;701907Not necessarily, Arduin - Chaosium have got some European distribution going on CoC 7th Edition, though to be fair that's thanks to their prior relationship with the French CoC licencees.

Chaosium isn't a kickstarter backed start up RPG concern though.  I'm not referring to long established companies.   (I should have been clearer)

But, I still don't understand the US to Canada shipping problem.  I thought that was supposed to go away when slick Willie signed NAFTA.

I'm guessing Monte is pretty happy he left WoTC around now.
Thing is, judging by his game-output so far, I still think it was better for D&D too.

Quote from: RPGPundit;702073I'm guessing Monte is pretty happy he left WoTC around now.
Thing is, judging by his game-output so far, I still think it was better for D&D too.

You have more inside info than us for sure.  But judging by two successful KS, and a Planescape Torment pseudo sequel, you are probably correct!

I looked at the KickStarter, liked what I saw and backed at the All the Ebooks Level. I'm waiting eagerly.

Quote from: RPGPundit;702073I'm guessing Monte is pretty happy he left WoTC around now.
Thing is, judging by his game-output so far, I still think it was better for D&D too.

Gee Pundie, jealous much?

Quote from: TrekkieBOB;702313Gee Pundie, jealous much?

No, not at all. He's welcome to his success, and I'm grateful that 5e isn't going to have rules similar to Numenara's.

RPGPundit

Quote from: UberMunchkin;700858Second.  The time involved.  I mean we're being asked to upfront a not inconsiderable amount of cash for game that unlikely to be delivered on time.  Classic example is CoC 7th Ed, the delivery estimate for that has gone from "We will have these books in your hands by Halloween 2013" to "We might be able to get them to you for March-April 2014 but we're not promising anything".

To be fair, the delivery date for CoC7E was pushed back long before the Kickstarter campaign ended (they even polled backers on November delivery, or colour and delayed delivery - delayed delivery won); you could've withdrawn your pledge if you didn't like the new delivery.

Quote from: Arduin;701909But, I still don't understand the US to Canada shipping problem.  I thought that was supposed to go away when slick Willie signed NAFTA.

USPS international shipping prices have increased substabtially in the past year. USPS has been operating at a loss for some time - what do you expect? What does NAFTA have to do with USPS costs to move packages to Canada?

Quote from: RPGPundit;702934No, not at all. He's welcome to his success, and I'm grateful that 5e isn't going to have rules similar to Numenara's.

RPGPundit

I think you're unfairly making an assumption that Numenara is just D&D rules Monte wanted to use instead of something different.  I expect that if Monte was still doing work for WoTC, he'd be taking a more traditional approach to the game and I doubt GM Intrusions and other rules would have suddenly appeared in D&D 5e.  A game designer's output can be radically different based on the assignment and product.

Quote from: Bobloblah;702972What does NAFTA have to do with USPS costs to move packages to Canada?

I have no idea.  I wasn't talking about USPS prices... (I don't know any business person stupid enough to use USPS for international shipping.  Do you?) :jaw-dropping:

Quote from: Arduin;703265I have no idea.  I wasn't talking about USPS prices... (I don't know any business person stupid enough to use USPS for international shipping.  Do you?) :jaw-dropping:

All the ones that want customers on small packages? USPS is generally far cheaper than any courier on small international packages under about 50 lbs. There are rare exceptions, such as UPS to Canada, but the reality is that even there USPS ends up being cheaper due to rarely getting hit with customs charges (whereas UPS always charges brokerage fees that are often more than the initial shipping costs).

Quote from: Bobloblah;703270All the ones that want customers on small packages?

I'm talking a concern larger than a SOHO set up.  You don't send single small packages internationally.  :cool:

Quote from: Arduin;703292I'm talking a concern larger than a SOHO set up.  You don't send single small packages internationally.  :cool:

Right. When the discussion was around shipping costs in the context of Kickstarters, which ship - wait for it - small packages internationally.

The goalposts have redshift.

Quote from: Bobloblah;703506Right. When the discussion was around shipping costs in the context of Kickstarters, which ship - wait for it - small packages internationally.

No, I mentioned it in regards to ANY commercial shipping between Canada & USA.  Reading in FUNdamental.

Quote from: Arduin;703522No, I mentioned it in regards to ANY commercial shipping between Canada & USA.  Reading in FUNdamental.

Spelling too, apparently. Too bad you can't manage either. Nice dodge, though.

Quote from: JRT;703264I think you're unfairly making an assumption that Numenara is just D&D rules Monte wanted to use instead of something different.  I expect that if Monte was still doing work for WoTC, he'd be taking a more traditional approach to the game and I doubt GM Intrusions and other rules would have suddenly appeared in D&D 5e.  A game designer's output can be radically different based on the assignment and product.

I have no doubt that Monte's version of 5e would not have been Numenara; he would have been far more controlled about it, but I also think that some of the ideas in his current games would have been stuff he'd have tried to implement into 5e, because Monte has always been about wanting to do stuff he thinks is new and cool for its own sake.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;704046I have no doubt that Monte's version of 5e would not have been Numenara; he would have been far more controlled about it, but I also think that some of the ideas in his current games would have been stuff he'd have tried to implement into 5e, because Monte has always been about wanting to do stuff he thinks is new and cool for its own sake.

RPGPundit

How dare he.

Quote from: J Arcane;704049How dare he.

There's nothing particularly wrong about it, if you're making a new game like Numenara.  On the other hand, if you're entrusted with designing a new edition of the oldest and most popular RPG in history, then yes, there's a problem with that mentality.

Bump.

42 hours to go and the kickstarter is at $321,900 as I write this. I'm mavening the heck out of this right now because they've just announced a new stretch goal (probably somewhere around the $360k or $380k level) which will unlock a new 96-page adventure. I'm generally a big fan of Cook's and Cordell's adventures, so I'd really, really like for that to become a reality.

On a similar note, I'd also like to point out just how ridiculously good the deals are with the Superfan packages at this point:

(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/001/357/952/489111e1e1e94ba635136f9a349ad07c_large.jpg?1385001630)

The MCG Superfan pack, for example, breaks down to $25-$30 per book (significantly below retail price). But, on top of that, you also get the $120 collector's edition of the core rulebook, multiple decks of cards, a bonus poster map, and a fan kit of goodies.

It was very difficult not to bump my pledge up to $200; if I didn't need to save some money for Christmas, would have done it in a heartbeat. While watching other people play rpgs is like witnessing a root canal, the inaugural play session I saw yesterday leads me to believe this will be a great game.

I agree, the actual play was very entertaining to watch.

For those who haven't seen it yet, here it is (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94oFz0n4bl4) (read the text below the video before watching it for an intro to the game).