You know how nobody plays pen-and-paper games any more because they're all into World of Warcraft?

Well, I'm not sure that's true. In the 80s, from what I remember, way more people played 'easier substitutes for RPGs' - Fighting Fantasy and similar series, computer games like Bard's Tale, or board games like Talisman - than played RPGs.

So maybe the people who play World of Warcraft aren't people who'd otherwise be playing D&D, they're people who'd otherwise be reading gamebooks, or playing fantasy-themed board or computer games.

Or maybe they were never mutually exclusive in the first place.

Maybe you're BOTH right - but it all depends on what part of the country or world you live in.

At the store we get the occassional visitor or browser that think we se4ll video games or computer games. When I tell them that we sell Board games,card games and Roleplaying games they sometimes ask : "How do you play an RPG without a computer?"

I then descrtibe or explain it as briefly as I can - sometimes they get REAL interested, sometimes they just say something "Okay, thanks I'll think about it. " (And they go off to GAMESTOP to buy an X-BOX or Playstation game)
If I'm lucky they might say "OH!, Like that D&D stuff!! Do they still make that?"

It is still possible to get new people interested in RPGs.


Also there IS some overlap in who plays what. We got quite a few regular customers who play MMORPGs, who also play DUNGEONS & DRAGONS, Settlers of Catan, Paintball once a month, and have tried a LARP....and they still have full-time jobs and a significant other.  (Yes - there ARE people like that)


In my opinion, I don't really see a 'vs' thing going on. Its more of a "What can I afford/budget this week or this month if I want to buy entertainment products?"


- Ed C.

Quote from: Koltar;247329When I tell them that we sell Board games,card games and Roleplaying games they sometimes ask : "How do you play an RPG without a computer?"

And that is when Doctor Rotwang! jumps out from the woodwork and kicks them in the throat!

Quote from: Dr Rotwang!;247339And that is when Doctor Rotwang! jumps out from the woodwork and kicks them in the throat!

Then I'd laugh my ass off after having been forced to call mall security.


 - OR -

We strap said person into a chair, give them dice and say "The nice Doctor Rotwang will now teach you what a REAL role-playing game is!"

Pretty sure my redheaded co-worker leaves her riding crop at work, you discipline them a little with that if they don't listen.

 {{{:-)


- Ed C.

I can only answer for myself. I enjoy Diablo II, and C&C-but I've never played WoW, or games like it. Nor do I have any interest in them. We game once a week generally (When we can) for an average of about 6 to 8 hours. We wouldn't trade it for anything, but all of my players also enjoy other games-both electronic, and board games.

I guess we see no need for one to replace the other.

I suspect that there are millions of people out there who'd really enjoy rpgs if they actually gave them a chance.  Sadly, most of them haven't the foggiest idea that rpgs exist.

I have this plan where we'll send out pairs of clean cut young gamers in nice suits to knock on doors and introduce people to gaming.  We'll pay for it by levying dues equal to 10% of every gamer's income before taxes and gaming purchases.  (hell, who has anything left after those two)

I got the suit and tie. Shaving the beard - don't know If I want to do that part. Can I just get it trimmed and styled really neat ?


- Ed C.

Nope, must be clean shaven and under 27.

Quote from: Age of FableYou know how nobody plays pen-and-paper games any more because they're all into World of Warcraft?

They are all into WoW because WoW consumed all their time... actually I belive RPGs and MMORPGs have very little in common from the perspective of player. When you play RPG you don't have to spend hour grinding XPs for example (and if you have to, your GM is obviously doing something very, very wrong) also group dynamics is completely different in small groups playing RPGs, than large population of MMORPGs servers where you, as player, are practicaly anonymous.

Quote from: Fritzs;247388They are all into WoW because WoW consumed all their time... actually I belive RPGs and MMORPGs have very little in common from the perspective of player. When you play RPG you don't have to spend hour grinding XPs for example (and if you have to, your GM is obviously doing something very, very wrong) also group dynamics is completely different in small groups playing RPGs, than large population of MMORPGs servers where you, as player, are practicaly anonymous.

Group dynamics in those MMORPG's I've played act more like pick-up board games at a convention. People group together for a common "quest", complete it and disband; you may never play with those people again. If you join some form of guild there seems to be a lot of time spent finding ways to "level up" the character while you aren't even at the keyboard.
 
I enjoy MMORPG's for running around and doing some good hack-n-slash, occasionally using their building systems to create or enhance a weapon/armor, but there really is no getting to know the other player's or their characters beyond basic get together and quest and disband. I've never found a MMORPG to be a satisfactory replacement for an RPG, they really are not the same animal.

Quote from: himsati;247895Group dynamics in those MMORPG's I've played act more like pick-up board games at a convention. People group together for a common "quest", complete it and disband; you may never play with those people again. If you join some form of guild there seems to be a lot of time spent finding ways to "level up" the character while you aren't even at the keyboard.

This is also the thinking in many browser games.  I am currently active in Tribal Wars, but it almost feels like an MLM at times.  Joining a tribe is nearly required to survive, but once you do, you are rather at the whims of the tribal leaders.  I was only saved from getting kicked out recently, for example, by the exhortations of another player that I have followed to several tribes.
 

QuoteI enjoy MMORPG's for running around and doing some good hack-n-slash, occasionally using their building systems to create or enhance a weapon/armor, but there really is no getting to know the other player's or their characters beyond basic get together and quest and disband. I've never found a MMORPG to be a satisfactory replacement for an RPG, they really are not the same animal.

But they are far less intensive, logistically.  You don't have to block off times to get together, get the snacks going, drag out all the books, argue about who is in the area of effect for a spell, and so on.

Of course, these things tend not to bother those of us who still have a high interest in tabletop gaming, but they are still legitimate points for CRPGS vs TTRPGS, in the minds of the people whom we would like to bring into the hobby.

Quote from: himsati;247895Group dynamics in those MMORPG's I've played act more like pick-up board games at a convention. People group together for a common "quest", complete it and disband; you may never play with those people again. If you join some form of guild there seems to be a lot of time spent finding ways to "level up" the character while you aren't even at the keyboard.

Completely alien to my own experiences. While one can play this way, it's a much more difficult path to success IMO.

Our own experiences online is that rather firm extended groups are created, and typically last from 6 months to a year without major change. Normally driven by the more serious players (in a relative sense), it can easily become a huge time sink that exceeeds anything one can normally find with pnp rpgs if one allows it.

The dynamic is certainly different from PnP (more distant certainly, one one doesn't really know- and often don't want to really know these people), but it's not the endless one night stands you make it out to be unless for some reason you've cause it to be that.

Quote from: David Johansen;247377I suspect that there are millions of people out there who'd really enjoy rpgs if they actually gave them a chance.  Sadly, most of them haven't the foggiest idea that rpgs exist.

Very true.

The biggest hurdle is that you need a group to play an RPG.   You can spend $50 at the game store and only get a book.  Spend $50 on WoW and you get a game you can play immediately and access to millions of other players.

Quote from: StormBringer;247897But they are far less intensive, logistically.  You don't have to block off times to get together, get the snacks going, drag out all the books, argue about who is in the area of effect for a spell, and so on.

If WotC pulls its head out of its ass and gets DDI finished, they will have solved this tremendously important hurdle.   I believe this is a huge block to expanding our hobby.  I also believe once DDI is successful, we will see people having fun playing RPGs who will seek out real life groups in addition to their online play.

But knowing WotC, DDI will probably be done in time for 5e.

Quote from: Spinachcat;248035If WotC pulls its head out of its ass and gets DDI finished, they will have solved this tremendously important hurdle.   I believe this is a huge block to expanding our hobby.  I also believe once DDI is successful, we will see people having fun playing RPGs who will seek out real life groups in addition to their online play.

But knowing WotC, DDI will probably be done in time for 5e.

Assuming it gets done at all, and works properly.  

I dunno if DDI is going to be quite the boon people think it will be.  While they aren't centralized or particularly organized, virtual tables have been around for a while, and they haven't exactly been burning up the intarweb tubes.  DDI might be able to pull it all together, but it will really only benefit WotC.  While they are the big fish, they aren't the only one, and people who don't play D&D will still be left out.