Quote from: GrimGentThen again, in a science fiction game the existence of vampires might be explained through a completely different rationale, which in turn would answer all the questions about their vulnerabilities.

What you said is true, however I was replying to pundy's post and in it he talked of crossing genres. I assumed this meant having fantasy/magic type elements in a nominally SF game, so I assumed a vampire in this game would be mystical in origin.

Now, having a 'vampiroid" created thru genetic engineering, some weird disease, etc, would not really be crossing genres, it would be all SF with some minor resemblances to a fantasy genre, and I was trying to stick to what I percieved as pundy's point, showing him more respect than a lot of peeps here show me.

Quote from: StuartThere are some cross genre elements in my in-development game.

I think as long as you have the core questions about magic, the supernatural, religion and high-tech answered it's not too bad to answer these questions.

To answer Nox's rhetorical questions about Vampires -- it really depends on what you want.  Is it a Bram Stoker vampire (religion/supernatural), a Blade vampire (virus?) or a Durham Red vampire (mutation).

For example, if you go with a classic vampire:

Can lasers hurt a vampire?

No. Sunlight is a metaphor for goodness, heaven, etc.  It's daylight that harms the vampire -- not UV.

Likewise, vampires are reportedly vulnerable to fire. Can white phosphorus hurt one? Can an IR laser, a beat of heat, essentially, hurt one?

Yes. This probably has to do with cremmation.  If you want flammable vampires, high-tech weapons involving heat/flame should also be dangerous to them.  

What effect do explosives have on vampires?

Same as a sword or axe.  Possibly with some fire, depending on the type of explosive.

If you have weapons that disintegrate matter can they affect vampires that are animated corpses, but still made of matter?

Hmm.  Can your vampires assume gaseous form?  If so then I'd go with that whenever they were 'disintegrated'.

A fusion nuclear warhead produces energy via nuclear fusion, the same way a sun does, so would a vampire be killed by the light of a nuclear warhead which is similar to sunlight, tho more intense?

I'd treat this as UV + Fire.  So no to the UV, but yes to the fire.

Now, if you decide on Durham Red style vampires -- just about everything will hurt them.

Again, I think that pundy's point was about crossing genres, and this meant, as least in my interpretation, having actualy magic elements in a SF setting or vice versa, so I assumed that vampires would be mystical/occult in nature, not genetic mutants, victims of a weird plague, etc.

Making vampires based on science/tech, as in genetic engineering accidents, doesn't strike me as crossing genres as just dressing up one genre with surface trapping of another. I was trying to go with actual cross genre stuff, so on one hand you have the SF genre, space marines armed with lasers, poiwer armor and fusion guns, and on the other side you have the fantasy genre with a walking dead vampire who is repelled by crosess, can't cross a threshold without being invited, casts no reflection, in immune to bullets, etc.

Quote from: Casey777(edit: Nightbane hopping into other scifi fae land/RIFTS doesn't really count on 2nd thought as going to a fantasy world)

Could be fun to try and it's worked as a story device (Mark Twain to Escaflowne). Put the other world in sharper contrast. Not sure why it's not been done more in tabletop RPGs, maybe assumptions about stats, genres ("Don't mix em"), prefer starting in and staying in a setting, or no need felt for a transition to ease into a setting.

Vampire D does Sci-Fi Vampires nicely. The 2nd movie, Bloodlust is a good intro with better art.
http://www.altvampyres.net/vhd/

I know there have been other science fiction takes on Vampires but I'm drawing a blank at the moment aside from modern day stuff like I Am Legend and Blade.

I think you meant "Vampire hunter D", didn't you? I've seen the first movie, kinda poor animation, great story and dubbing.

My current Exalted game has five teenagers from Earth that have Exalted and wound up in Creation. The backstory (which I am safe to relate because none of my players visit any forums at all) is that there was a Sidereal of Journeys who was scouting the Wyld and wound up falling through a "crack" between the worlds and wound up on Earth. He spent centuries trying to find a way home, but in the interim founded an academy for the gifted in Greece. He became known as something of an eccentric philanthropist. This gave him access to the funds, social connections, academia, etc. he needed to assist his research in how to get home. The PCs were all students from the academy and are prodigies, children of diplomats, celebrities, politicians, heads of state, etc. The current line-up includes:

1) The New Age daughter of two rock stars. She Exalted as a Twilight caste.
2) The son of a third-world dictator. He Exalted as an Eclipse caste.
3) The rebellious son of an Irish Duke. He Exalted as a Zenith caste.
4) The daughter of a Japanese CEO. She Exalted as a Twilight caste.
5) An Olympic hopeful, who Exalted as a Dawn caste.

Included in this group are the Twilight's familiar (Fluffy, a stryx...in Exalted that's a man-sized cross between an owl and something much nastier), her construct Symnelra (a golem-like thing made of glass), and Orion, the Night Caste's Lion Dog Ally. Both Fluffy and Orion started out as mundane creatures - Fluffy an owl that the Twilight was caring for and brought with her, and Orion a pug that the Night caste never goes anywhere without - that were transformed when brought into Creation.

How they wound up in Creation is the characters (along with a few other students) went to an archaeological dig site for some "hands on learning" as part of a senior project. The head of the dig was a very good friend of Nikolai's, and the site was still very much restricted from the public. What made the site unique was the presence of a Greek pyramid-like structure, which is not unknown but rare. This one was special because it was much bigger and better built than the previous examples. While the PCs and company were on the dig site a breach between the worlds occurred, everyone was attacked by Fair Folk hobgoblins and the PCs (and others) Exalted and were swept into Creation. Nikolai knew the pyramid was somehow linked to his world - and may have intentionally brought the PCs and other students suspecting something would happen - but he was not expecting this.

I did this because I wanted the players to learn the setting at the same time their characters did, so they would not have to absorb hundreds of pages of setting material. The idea - which I know of a couple other people running Exalted that have done the same thing - is just over the top enough for Exalted to be really cool even for people who know the setting. I have not rationalized why or how the PCs Exalted or the bird and the pug transformed, and I doubt I ever will.

So far, the PCs have defeated the hungry ghost of the Dawn's previous incarnation (the player wasn't in the game yet, he just joined last week); recovered all of their artifacts; discovered a village that had been raided by slavers; freed some of the prisoners; inadvertantly struck a deal, then broke it, with the Fair Folk noble orchestrating the attacks; and discovered that Nikolai is being held by the very noble. They're about to go head-to-head with the Dragonblooded officers of the local garrison (but don't know it yet). So far, with the exception of finding I'm not fond of the system (I could take it or leave it, really), everything is going good.

Quote from: Dominus NoxI think you meant "Vampire hunter D", didn't you? I've seen the first movie, kinda poor animation, great story and dubbing.

Yes.

Keep in mind that was a 1985 film and drawn to a certain style. Bloodlust is newer, sticks to the original art style more, and overall looks better. IIRC the original dub is in English so that's also good. Both are good and some of the novels are now available in English as well.

The line between fantasy and science fiction doesn't have to be divisive and wasn't for some time, still doesn't have to be.

John Carter of Mars goes from Earth to Barsoom, is that fantasy or science fiction? Gor? A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court? (shrugs)

Quote from: jhkimBy the way, I don't see this as cross-genre at all.  Having people from the real world find their way into a fantastic land is a well-established part of the fantasy genre -- going back from fairy tales (i.e. Rip Van Winkle) to plenty of early and present fantasy books.

It's not that represented in RPGs though. Some bits at the start and occasionally now and then. Stuff like Dimension Travel, Multiverses and Time Travel could be used for it but usually aren't.

Quote from: WilI did this because I wanted the players to learn the setting at the same time their characters did, so they would not have to absorb hundreds of pages of setting material.

One of the more compelling reasons for using this approach in fiction and in gaming. It'd be interesting to see if this would be easier to grasp for total newbies than the tavern/dungeon approach of most vanilla fantasy settings. It might be but the tavern/dungeon's pretty entrenched by now in gaming.

Quote from: Casey777One of the more compelling reasons for using this approach in fiction and in gaming. It'd be interesting to see if this would be easier to grasp for total newbies than the tavern/dungeon approach of most vanilla fantasy settings. It might be but the tavern/dungeon's pretty entrenched by now in gaming.

One of the players (my wife) has never successfully started to play any rpg (she was involved in character creation for a Vampire game and played one session of D&D, years ago). The other player has only played in one D&D game. They seem to be doing really well grasping things. I feel it frees up some processing power to get used to the mechanics without having to worry about a flagnagadirbit being like a spoon, but different.

Of course, as Jurgen Hubert on RPG.net has also observed it allows an interesting clash of cultural viewpoints. For example from what he described in his game and what happened in my game: the PCs actually have views on slavery that are not anachronistic (for the PCs at least). At best, the average inhabitant of Creation has no opinion on slavery and simply accepts it. It leads to interesting roleplaying.

Quote from: Dominus NoxWhat you said is true, however I was replying to pundy's post and in it he talked of crossing genres. I assumed this meant having fantasy/magic type elements in a nominally SF game, so I assumed a vampire in this game would be mystical in origin.

The problem is that introducing any genuinely supernatural element into a hard SF setting can only result in either turning the genre of the game instantly into fantasy or else accepting that the anomaly can be subjected to scientific analysis and therefore ultimately isn't supernatural at all. Genres such as, say, romantic fantasy and hard science fiction cannot really be mixed together gracefully and in equal measures: something has to give.

In high school, a buddy of mine did a freeform, diceless game of his own design where the players were all themselves and had been summoned to a dimension where every creation of the mind is kept.  Upon reflection, it was very much inspired by the Neverending Story in concept, though the dimension itself was a series of seemingly endless corridors and doorways.

The players were recruited because their souls were marked as being especially creative.  Thus, we had become warriors against the Emptiness that threatened to erase art and fiction from the souls of mankind.

In practice, the game was all about how creative we could be in responding to the situations the GM presented to us.

In Dragon #100 there was an adventure called "The City Beyond the Gate" where the D&D PCs end up in modern day London.

Featuring the very well balanced:

Sub-machinegun.  
Damage: 2-8 / 2-8
Rate of Fire: 20

yikes

Quote from: Casey777Yes.

Keep in mind that was a 1985 film and drawn to a certain style. Bloodlust is newer, sticks to the original art style more, and overall looks better. IIRC the original dub is in English so that's also good. Both are good and some of the novels are now available in English as well.

The line between fantasy and science fiction doesn't have to be divisive and wasn't for some time, still doesn't have to be.

John Carter of Mars goes from Earth to Barsoom, is that fantasy or science fiction? Gor? A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court? (shrugs)

Well, since John Carter got to mars (Barsoom) by wishing himself there, I'd call it fantasy.

Quote from: Dominus NoxWell, since John Carter got to mars (Barsoom) by wishing himself there, I'd call it fantasy.

He first woke up on Mars after hitting his head and falling unconscious in a cave. Returned to Earth after falling unconscious fixing an oxygen plant. Next returned to Mars after feeling again the "strange, compelling influence" of Mars, despite imploring for years to return to his love, a sense of nausea, and then "again came the sharp click as of the sudden parting of a taut wire". Astral projection (i.e. a described process) not a wish & a framing device at that, like FTL often is.

For a while, I ran games using the default setup described by the second world sourcebook:
http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=5144



The basic idea is that there is Earth, and then there is the second world... like Earth geographically, and there are cultural parallels, but the second world is where magic prevails instead of science.

But, there are those who can alter reality to make it a little more accomodating called wardens. Most technology doesn't work in the second world, but some wardens can make it work.

The book is fascinating, loaded with tools like adaptations between d20 modern and D&D, technology tables that describe how different technologies (including magical variants) interact, and so forth. There's a setting to it, but it could afford to be more fleshed out.

I had a lot of fun with the setting. It had an interesting dynamic to it, and it's curious how setting D&D in a fantasy Earth answers many of my hangups about D&D (like word puzzles that rhyme in English.)