I was pretty late getting on the CoC wagon. 1989, i think was my first exposure and i only played the odd one-shot of it for years after that. I didn't play a campaign of it until about '95 IIRC. I remember when i first played it that i was surprised to see rules about insanity that were similar to WFRP. The fact that they predated WFRP didn't really register at first.

Anyhow. Good old CoC, a perenial favourite of many a gamer, introduced the idea of insanity into gaming. Sure, it had been mentioned, but there hadn't been an in-depth look at it until CoC came along. Given it's subject matter and source material, i doubt that not having it ever came up in development. In Lovecraft's stories, his investigators often went barking mad or had their tenuous grip on reality shattered on even catching a fleeting glimpse of stuff man was not meant to see , let alone having full-scale contact. So any game set in Lovecraft's world had to emulate that to be taken seriously. This is where Sanity (SAN) was born. This was a numerical measure of your remaining sanity and was in the range of 0 (barking) to 99. At chargen, you got your starting SAN by multiplying your Power (POW) stat by 5. That was your staring SAN and you better try to keep hold of it. Another interesting little snippet about SAN is that the more you learn about the mythos (by reading books etc and increasing youtr mythos skill), the lower your SAN became. Even without coming into contact with any alien being! You mythos skill rating was subracted from 100 and that was the highest your SAN could ever by. Never read a dodgy tome by candlelight!

So, we have the SAN stat and how it was generated. How it affected play was massive. Sighting, interacting with or even coming across snippets of information about mythos creatures is too much for us poor humans to stand. It sows the seeds of madness that such things can exist. Therefore, if those conditions come up, then you have to make a SAN roll. On a d100, you must roll lower than your current SAN total. Failure results in loss of a certain amount (based on the nature of the event or creature) and in many cases, success just meant you lost less SAN than if you failed. Gulp!

Now, the investigator wasn't considered to be totally mad and removed from play until his SAN was zero, but he could still suffer from bouts of madness if the shock to his mind was too great in one dose, as it were. Bouts of temporary madness meant that as soon as investigators started getting closer to the mythos, they started to become more and more fragile (as it should be). The different types of insanities themselves have been fleshed out a bit more and make for good reading and source material (as is the treatments section), but the fact remains that going nuts is really the central pillar of CoC games. You might avert a plot or two, but it's going to cost you your marbles.

Marvellous stuff and you can't get more fitting to your source material. However, as with most mechanics of this type, being removed from play every now and then can be a pain in the arse. Sure it's fun playing an unhinged scholar, but not all the time. I think this explains CoC longevity to some degree. It's great for short campaigns or one offs, where the prospect of going nuts can be fun, but in longer camapigns, the prospect isn't quite so appealing...Which is why there is a measure of planning in the game whereby you can get some of your SAN back. Defeating monsters, foiling plots or even just becoming really good at activities can raise your SAN score. So not all is lost!

After CoC, WFRP also used insanity rules (some say it's a fantasy CoC anyhow). The difference being that in WFRP, it was just sheer stress and threat of death that caused insanity. The first edition insanity rules where pretty good and you could choose a good many to reflect your past experiences. 2nd edition, not so good. A little bit too harsh, not quite so much choice and potentially game ending. Also, you can't really improve your sanity in WFRP like you can potentially in CoC.

Other games have madness mechanics, UA for one (and a few others), but would they have had them if not for CoC? Did CoC start the trend or would it have eventually happened anyhow? Are long CoC campaigns possible with only a few characters? Was CoC in fact the first game to have a madness mechanic? Is it still the best? What are your experiences with them?

when playing CoC, i would implement a rule i think i saw in cthulhu now.  it would allow a character to build up a near-immunity to beast sightings by making x number of SAN saves, where x would = the max SAN loss caused by a creature.  so if critter psl'guahgumph caused 1d10 SAN loss, once the character made 10 successful SAN throws viewing this type of thing, he wouldn't have to throw for it again.  he would automatically succeed; with some creatures, that could still result in loss, but them's the breaks.  i only had to implement it with minor guys like deep ones, tho.  

campaigns were pretty short-lived.  part of the reason was character loss (death or insanity) but we also would switch games every so often for variety as well.  

in first ed. WFRP we ended up modifying that system as well.  people loved racking up insanity points, so i'd cash them in for chaos mutations (from WD 99 or something).  don't remember the exchange rate, but it slowed down the madness-race.  

i like having it as an ablative or accumulative mechanic.  players would tend to roleplay their deterioration as their points would change!  lotsa fun

It is part of the design of the system that the longer you play, the less able you become as a PC.  I seem to recall Sandy saying it was designed specifically to be the opposite to what games of the day were doing as far as PC longevity goes.  

Can't remember if that was on one of the Yog-sothoth.com podcasts, or in a conversation we were having at some point, but there you go.

Quote from: One Horse TownOther games have madness mechanics, UA for one (and a few others), but would they have had them if not for CoC?
Probably. I think it was a question of time befores somebody thought that some mechanic for psychological trauma was needed. Sandy Petersen happened to be the first.

QuoteDid CoC start the trend or would it have eventually happened anyhow?

See my previous answer.

QuoteAre long CoC campaigns possible with only a few characters?

My AP experience says that it is possible.

QuoteWas CoC in fact the first game to have a madness mechanic?

AFAIK, yes.

QuoteIs it still the best?

It's the best in simulating its source material. Other horror games do other types of horror far better.

QuoteWhat are your experiences with them?

A big bunch of fun. I have never had a player unhappy for being temporally removed or losing his PC due to SAN loss. People understands that it is one of the pillars of the game, and so they play.

One of the more interesting things to remember about CoC's SAN mechanic, is that it was not only the first "Madness" mechanic, but (as far as I know) the first "PC Corruption Mechanic".  Dark Side Points in Star Wars, Humanity in World of Darkness, etc. all owe a nod to CoC.

Quote from: ImperatorIt's the best in simulating its source material. Other horror games do other types of horror far better.

Something Imperator and I have discussed often offline.  Yes, what CoC's SAN does really is model the way insanity is portrayed in Lovecraft's work.  Which is to say it presents a simple rules mechanic for what happens to a charaacter when he suddenly realizes that everything he knows is wrong...and wants to eat his face.

Quote from: ImperatorA big bunch of fun. I have never had a player unhappy for being temporally removed or losing his PC due to SAN loss. People understands that it is one of the pillars of the game, and so they play.

Very much so.  In groups I've played with over the years, it's something of a badge of honor to be the first PC to go insane. It's the same sort of cathartic release one gets from watching a good horror movie, I suppose.  Plus, once in a while it's just fun to 'let it all go'.

In my play experience its actually relatively quite rare for someone to absolutely insane. They get killed or eaten long before that.

Once in a while, though, you get the really resilient character who somehow manages to make it many adventures with quite a high SAN and no fatal encounters.  One of my players has now become quite famous for beating all previous records of any of my Cthulhu games, having an ongoing character survive for 8 sessions(!) now, and still with SAN in his 80s(!!).  Other PCs had survived as long as 6 sessions with the same character, but by then their SAN was usually in pieces.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPunditIn my play experience its actually relatively quite rare for someone to absolutely insane. They get killed or eaten long before that.

That's my experience too. Actually, I only can recall 2 PCs that lost all their SAN... in almost 20 years of playing the game. PCs usualy die, seldom go totally insane.

Many players opt to retire their PCs once they reach certain level of Mythos skill, and leave them as consultant NPCs. It's quite fun.

Quote from: zombenIn groups I've played with over the years, it's something of a badge of honor to be the first PC to go insane. It's the same sort of cathartic release one gets from watching a good horror movie, I suppose.  Plus, once in a while it's just fun to 'let it all go'.

There are a bunch of games that we played as little kids that involved playing until something went wrong.  Games that we'd all play in anticipation, in expectation, that something was supposed to go very, very wrong, and that was the actual point of the game.  Operation, Don't Break the Ice, Don't Spill the Beans, Kerplunk, Jenga...even Twister.  And part of what made it really fun was waiting to see who was going to make the fatal error, exultng when someone else cheated fate, and dreading your own turn, knowing that things were just going to get worse the longer you played.  I think that's a lot of the mystique about Call of Cthulhu -- the fun of knowing that everything is supposed to go to shit in the end, but not knowing when, or who was going to make it happen.

!i!

That's a brilliant observation. I'd never thought of it like that before.

So, Cthulhu is sort of the RPG version of the "Jaws" game that used to stress us out so much -- but we had so much fun playing -- when we were kids.