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[video=youtube;7YCVHnItKuY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YCVHnItKuY[/youtube]


So, Is Matt right?  Does Roleplaying cure baldness?  Does practising funny voices really get you all of the chicks?

Who?

I wasn't too sure about his roleplaying vs Roleplaying and Real Roleplaying being about playing a PC with different motivations than yourself.

I'm just not interested in deep roleplaying to the point I have to come up with an alt-personality and make portraying that alt-personality the point of the activity.  The activity is the point of the activity.

All my characters are essentially branching variations of myself.  None are quite the same, especially over time as stuff happens in-game.  But neither am I sitting at the table going "fuck, I must come up with something wholly not-me for this to be real roleplaying".  I want fun places to explore, situations to exploit, enemies that try their damnedest to take me out (and I likewise), and interesting objectives I choose myself.  "roleplaying" is encouraged when it's both natural and fun-enhancing for everyone at the table, and if very little of that happens during a session because the action's hopping then that's OK too.  

I don't, for instance, make players have a fake conversation in order to buy a suit of armor.  Handwaive that stuff.

Oh I'm big on playing characters that aren't me.

In one game my character is an avid drug addict and spends a third of his money on drugs and he thinks he's a good person and family man.

In another, I play an avid good guy who refuses to kill bad people and strongly disagrees that people and law enforcement should have advance weapons.

If the character isn't different from me, than I don't feel like I'm role-playing.

Quote from: JeremyR;1102115Who?

He is on first.

Roleplaying sometimes overlaps with Acting, but the Venn diagram of both has a relatively small shared area.  If you are choosing actions based on your character, you are roleplaying.

Quote from: Rhedyn;1102126If the character isn't different from me, than I don't feel like I'm role-playing.

Same here. I love playing characters with traits I don't have, like a high Dex!

I'm an agnostic IRL, but I love playing fanatical, evangelical clerics. And samurai who'd never disobey their corrupt lords, or an Inquisitor who sees heresy everywhere based on no evidence.

Or weird aliens, like a human who care about other people's feelings. :)

For me, that's the fun of roleplaying.

Quote from: Rhedyn;1102126Oh I'm big on playing characters that aren't me.

If the character isn't different from me, than I don't feel like I'm role-playing.

Yup, I'm with you here. Part of the fun of RPGs for me is assuming characters drastically different from myself, both aptitudes-wise and personality/motivations-wise.

Quote from: EOTB;1102123I'm just not interested in deep roleplaying to the point I have to come up with an alt-personality and make portraying that alt-personality the point of the activity.  The activity is the point of the activity.

All my characters are essentially branching variations of myself.  None are quite the same, especially over time as stuff happens in-game.  But neither am I sitting at the table going "fuck, I must come up with something wholly not-me for this to be real roleplaying".  I want fun places to explore, situations to exploit, enemies that try their damnedest to take me out (and I likewise), and interesting objectives I choose myself.  "roleplaying" is encouraged when it's both natural and fun-enhancing for everyone at the table, and if very little of that happens during a session because the action's hopping then that's OK too.  

I don't, for instance, make players have a fake conversation in order to buy a suit of armor.  Handwaive that stuff.

From playing with kids, I can tell that treating the situation one is in as real is a lot more important than treating your character as a real person. RPing really works fine if your PC's name is Bob and his motivation is liking money as long as Bob interacts with the environment in fun ways and acts as if he's banging around a real place, not a sound stage or a computer game level.

Personally I have more fun if my PC has a personality that is separate from mine but I'm not very good at coming up with alt-personalities that "click" so I often recycle the ones that work (the most commonly recycled one is "happy go lucky dumbass, who is really brave" which is an aspect of my personality really exaggerated) and get a bit frustrated when I have one that ends up a bit bland in actual play. I've started using con game one shots to "field test" new PC personalities so I don't get stuck with one that doesn't really work over the long haul.

I just enjoy that in some campaigns with the same group my PC is best friends with another player's PC and then in the next campaign our characters are rivals that can barely stand each other. Having those relationships shift around can be a lot of fun.

Quote from: JeremyR;1102115Who?

I recognize the name from his book, Strongholds and Followers. After reading through it and seeing how he writes, I don't really care to hear him speak.

Yeah, like his Sandbox vs. the Railroad video, Matt's on the money here. He's talking about a trend that started long, long ago and needs to go away.

I wish I would have seen this video 20 years ago.

Quote from: Anthony Pacheco;1102219Yeah, like his Sandbox vs. the Railroad video, Matt's on the money here. He's talking about a trend that started long, long ago and needs to go away.

I wish I would have seen this video 20 years ago.

What trend is that?

Quote from: Daztur;1102202Personally I have more fun if my PC has a personality that is separate from mine but I'm not very good at coming up with alt-personalities that "click" so...

Have you tried something like Pendragon's Trait listing where you can track and shift how your character behaves.
You can either play it as rolled or use it to inform your play.

Quote from: S'mon;1102221What trend is that?

The Different Voice/One Dimensional character is the pentacle of roleplaying rather than just being entertaining.

There is nothing wrong with entertainment (far be it for me to declare something WrongFun).

Acting =/= roleplaying, but they taste pretty good together on a bun.

Popular ideas of tabletop roleplaying are being shaped in a big way by actual play streaming. So it's nice to hear an influential guy like Colville present the case that speaking in character isn't necessary for roleplaying, or better than simply describing your character's actions.

Quote from: Haffrung;1102334Popular ideas of tabletop roleplaying are being shaped in a big way by actual play streaming. So it's nice to hear an influential guy like Colville present the case that speaking in character isn't necessary for roleplaying, or better than simply describing your character's actions.

Agreed, many of the actual plays are entertainment not gaming. We never played like that and I hope that isn't what new people to the hobby expect.

Quote from: sharps54;1102335Agreed, many of the actual plays are entertainment not gaming. We never played like that and I hope that isn't what new people to the hobby expect.

I have had to discuss voice acting at my table recently - I was semi apologetic for not doing it for most NPCs. But a player pointed out I always give my big evil monsters hilarious gruff voices. :D

Quote from: S'mon;1102343I have had to discuss voice acting at my table recently - I was semi apologetic for not doing it for most NPCs. But a player pointed out I always give my big evil monsters hilarious gruff voices. :D

A couple campaigns ago I realized that any NPC I do an actual accent for automatically becomes the group favorite. Not only due to the characterization part, but because my players love forcing me to keep doing accents the entire damn time...

Quote from: Antiquation!;1102346A couple campaigns ago I realized that any NPC I do an actual accent for automatically becomes the group favorite. Not only due to the characterization part, but because my players love forcing me to keep doing accents the entire damn time...

I was doing a raspy, smoker's voice recently for an NPC that I thought wouldn't be very interesting.  The players talked to the character so long I finally told them that they'd need to wind it down, if they expected my voice to hold up to do the rest of the session.

Quote from: Steven Mitchell;1102349I was doing a raspy, smoker's voice recently for an NPC that I thought wouldn't be very interesting.  The players talked to the character so long I finally told them that they'd need to wind it down, if they expected my voice to hold up to do the rest of the session.

Ha, exactly! I've left multiple sessions with my voice half-gone and a sore throat from attempting stunts like that.

I'm a bad acting ham so I love giving NPCs all sorts of verbal and non-verbal ticks. But I've had GMs who only used 3rd person descriptions without dramatics and their games were also highly immersive fun because they had great word choice with their descriptions so scenes played out in our heads.

Either option is good roleplaying. Bad roleplaying is when there's no care for immersion and NPCs are just obstacles in the rush for XP.

Quote from: EOTB;1102123All my characters are essentially branching variations of myself.

And even if they weren't, they'd highly likely be the type of characters you "get".

Quote from: Anthony Pacheco;1102219Yeah, like his Sandbox vs. the Railroad video, Matt's on the money here. He's talking about a trend that started long, long ago and needs to go away.

I wish I would have seen this video 20 years ago.

I agree. I don't watch his videos often so I am glad Shasarak highlighted this one. This is a great video. Role playing is not doing funny voices. Always speaking in funny voices, even when it's you the player asking the person who is the DM a question, is weird. Adding a third dimension to your character is fun and makes the game more interesting. I am glad he made this video, and I hope a lot of people watch it. Particularly the guys watching Critical Role and similar shows.

I sometimes think Matt would fit in well on this message board by the way. He thinks like a lot of us think. Probably because he's gamed since 1e.

Quote from: Mistwell;1102760I sometimes think Matt would fit in well on this message board by the way. He thinks like a lot of us think. Probably because he's gamed since 1e.

He thinks Conanesque swords & sorcery art is sexist and demeaning to womyn! :eek:

Quote from: S'mon;1102775He thinks Conanesque swords & sorcery art is sexist and demeaning to womyn! :eek:

So do some people here, I imagine. Or are those thoughtcrimes?

Good advice="What does (character name) do?" Of course, the downside, sometimes, is that a player will do something just plain douchey, then say, "But this is what my character would do!" without having established precedent in any way. On the whole, though, a thoughtful vid, as all of his seem to be, imho. Of course, my tables feature mostly folks who just want to roll some dice, which is fine with me.

Quote from: Mistwell;1102788So do some people here, I imagine. Or are those thoughtcrimes?

'Tis the Foulest Blasphemy!!

Quote from: S'mon;1102775He thinks Conanesque swords & sorcery art is sexist and demeaning to womyn! :eek:

Yeah he's gotten gradually more SJW/Virtue Signalling. Still overall small stuff but it gets annoying to hear this same damn tired line of falsehoods over and fucking over by these woke morons. It detracts from his otherwise often fairly entertaining pieces and why I look up his stuff less and less.

Quote from: Omega;1102807Yeah he's gotten gradually more SJW/Virtue Signalling. Still overall small stuff but it gets annoying to hear this same damn tired line of falsehoods over and fucking over by these woke morons. It detracts from his otherwise often fairly entertaining pieces and why I look up his stuff less and less.

I'm gonna write my own RPG! With trans people and 3rd wave feminists!

You know what? Forget the RPG!

Quote from: Antiquation!;1102808I'm gonna write my own RPG! With trans people and 3rd wave feminists!

You know what? Forget the RPG!

Been done. See one of the other recent threads. :o

Quote from: Antiquation!;1102808I'm gonna write my own RPG! With trans people and 3rd wave feminists!

D&D 6E?

Quote from: Mistwell;1102760I sometimes think Matt would fit in well on this message board by the way. He thinks like a lot of us think. Probably because he's gamed since 1e.

He's said he used to post on them all the time back in the 3e days.

Quote from: Mistwell;1102760I agree. I don't watch his videos often so I am glad Shasarak highlighted this one. This is a great video. Role playing is not doing funny voices. Always speaking in funny voices, even when it's you the player asking the person who is the DM a question, is weird. Adding a third dimension to your character is fun and makes the game more interesting. I am glad he made this video, and I hope a lot of people watch it. Particularly the guys watching Critical Role and similar shows.

Yeah, I was surprised. I went in with a cynical mindset, but after a few minutes it grew on me. I don't think there's anything groundbreaking in the video-- most of us have already explored this territory before. But he's got a talent for putting a fresh face on the familiar, and of making you think about the old things in new ways.

Quote from: JeremyR;1102115Who?

Matt Colville. Has anyone heard how his million dollar RPG Kickstarter is doing? Did he deliver the goods on time, and finish with grace. or is this one of them semi-fraudulent take the money and run kind of gamer deals?

Quote from: Omega;1102807Yeah he's gotten gradually more SJW/Virtue Signalling.

I find it a bit distracting, and I don't think he'd enjoy this site - it's actually the more aggressive and/or argumentative Lefties who enjoy posting here. Overall I enjoy Colville's work and I don't think he's a bad person, he isn't attacking/trying to hurt other people. But he has developed a skewed perspective, likely because of the prevailing milieu.

Quote from: GameDaddy;1102855Matt Colville. Has anyone heard how his million dollar RPG Kickstarter is doing? Did he deliver the goods on time, and finish with grace. or is this one of them semi-fraudulent take the money and run kind of gamer deals?

It did not finish on time (probably because first time kickstarter trying to do books and minis and T Shirts and streaming) but, as far as I know, it is now done.

He is now prepping for the next one (Kingdoms & Warfare (https://shop.mcdmproductions.com/)) because once you start you got to keep on feeding the beast.

Quote from: S'mon;1102857I find it a bit distracting, and I don't think he'd enjoy this site - it's actually the more aggressive and/or argumentative Lefties who enjoy posting here. Overall I enjoy Colville's work and I don't think he's a bad person, he isn't attacking/trying to hurt other people. But he has developed a skewed perspective, likely because of the prevailing milieu.

Just mention TRUMP to him and see what he does. That's always a good test to see if people are unhinged.

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;1102862Just mention TRUMP to him and see what he does. That's always a good test to see if people are unhinged.

Sorta like what happens to righties when The Squad is mentioned?

Quote from: GameDaddy;1102855Matt Colville. Has anyone heard how his million dollar RPG Kickstarter is doing? Did he deliver the goods on time, and finish with grace. or is this one of them semi-fraudulent take the money and run kind of gamer deals?

Delays but it got done. Everyone is happy now.

Quote from: cranebump;1102864Sorta like what happens to righties when The Squad is mentioned?

The Squad?

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Quote from: Shasarak;1102867The Squad?

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Heh. Probably an apt representation of how Trump voter views society at large (around here, anyway).

Quote from: S'mon;1102857I find it a bit distracting, and I don't think he'd enjoy this site - it's actually the more aggressive and/or argumentative Lefties who enjoy posting here. Overall I enjoy Colville's work and I don't think he's a bad person, he isn't attacking/trying to hurt other people. But he has developed a skewed perspective, likely because of the prevailing milieu.

Same here. It detracts. But I think he might fit in here. Or run screaming. Who knows.
And while he isnt attacking anyone directly. He is promoting and perpetuating this nonsense on those, so far, rare times it rears its ugly head.

A few reviewers I used to follow on YT I have just about stopped as they just have to insert some virtue signal in every vid now and it just gets really old after a while.

Quote from: GameDaddy;1102855Matt Colville. Has anyone heard how his million dollar RPG Kickstarter is doing? Did he deliver the goods on time, and finish with grace. or is this one of them semi-fraudulent take the money and run kind of gamer deals?

It all went fine AFAIK, and the book is available.

Quote from: GameDaddy;1102855Matt Colville. Has anyone heard how his million dollar RPG Kickstarter is doing? Did he deliver the goods on time, and finish with grace. or is this one of them semi-fraudulent take the money and run kind of gamer deals?

It was a little late, but not bad for a 1st kickstarter.  I think the streaming, the physical move and the minis probably contributed most of the delay.  Matt was good at communicating during the kickstarter so that was in his favor.  I like the book and use it for extensively in my Primeval Thule campaign.

As for the 'woke' garbage, he strikes me as someone who would prefer to leave all the garbage at the door and just play games.  Since he has a higher profile he probably regurgitates just enough to keep from being blacklisted.  Maybe trying to find a middle ground so he doesn't lose customers?  Kinda sad, but I'll still accept that versus the level of garbage coming from WOTC, etc.

I finally finished watching the video as Matt's elitism was insufferable. It's not surprising that I disagreed with just about everything he said considering he thinks of RPGs as an "exercise in storytelling" and his constant references to "movies do this", "novels do that", etc.  RPGs do a terrible job being novels and movies.

When DMs say, "how do I get my players to role-play", this is, more often than not, them saying, "how do I get my players invested in my game world and metaplot" rather than "how do I get my characters to have complex motivations." At least IME.

Quote from: GameDaddy;1102855Matt Colville. Has anyone heard how his million dollar RPG Kickstarter is doing? Did he deliver the goods on time, and finish with grace. or is this one of them semi-fraudulent take the money and run kind of gamer deals?

He delivered the book, the minis and his studio is a streaming dream, so I would say he delivered.

It is a great book! I find it highly useful. I did not back for the minis (having more minis that I know what do do with).

Not OSR. Nobody buy his book thinking it is some 5E OSR homage. But it does play into the old-school "let's get a keep."

Quote from: cranebump;1102864Sorta like what happens to righties when The Squad is mentioned?

What Democrat players know what The Squad even is?

Quote from: cranebump;1102869Heh. Probably an apt representation of how Trump voter views society at large (around here, anyway).

Cranebump came unhinged.

Quote from: hedgehobbit;1102925I finally finished watching the video as Matt's elitism was insufferable.

Whatever else he is, Colville is not elitist. Time and again he goes out of his way to say if you're having fun, you're doing it right.

Quote from: hedgehobbit;1102925It's not surprising that I disagreed with just about everything he said considering he thinks of RPGs as an "exercise in storytelling" and his constant references to "movies do this", "novels do that", etc.  RPGs do a terrible job being novels and movies.

I agree RPGs do a terrible job being novels and movies. But for better or worse, that's what 90+ per cent of the people who play D&D today expect and want out of the game.

Quote from: hedgehobbit;1102925When DMs say, "how do I get my players to role-play", this is, more often than not, them saying, "how do I get my players invested in my game world and metaplot" rather than "how do I get my characters to have complex motivations." At least IME.

You're probably right. And while I enjoy Colville's insights and advice, and think he's been a benefit to the culture of contemporary D&D, he has a really bad case of DM as world-building novelist. His actual play streams and after-game analysis of his campaign are unbearable. The whole thing is an exercise in Colville having a bunch of co-workers act out his ridiculously elaborate plots in his ridiculously over-stuffed game setting.

Still, Colville is by far the most old-school of the RPG influencers with widespread popularity out there. If it wasn't for him, modern D&D players would be utterly ignorant of D&D modes of play and norms from pre-WotC D&D.

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;1102998Cranebump came unhinged.

Well, Shawn, you would obviously know unhinged wouldn't you? I assume it's a prime requisite for your vote.:-)

If I may clarify. “Around here” meant where I currently live, not this site. Not that paranoia isn’t part and parcel of some folks’s online persona...

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;1102997What Democrat players know what The Squad even is?

Um...which squad?

Quote from: Haffrung;1103028And while I enjoy Colville's insights and advice, and think he's been a benefit to the culture of contemporary D&D, he has a really bad case of DM as world-building novelist. His actual play streams and after-game analysis of his campaign are unbearable. The whole thing is an exercise in Colville having a bunch of co-workers act out his ridiculously elaborate plots in his ridiculously over-stuffed game setting.

Yes.  I've watched Colville's videos from the start, and his early vids about running the game and becoming a confident DM are really good viewing.  So I was looking forward to his actual play sessions that he's been teasing for quite some time.  But then the actual play streams turned out to be mind-numbingly boring and unwatchable for me.  As many play streams are, but I suppose I was hoping that Colville's would at least be somewhat entertaining.  And they're not at all.  Such a disappointment.

Quote from: cranebump;1102864Sorta like what happens to righties when The Squad is mentioned?

I cheer when The Squad is mentioned. That's Trump's re-election team in action!

Quote from: Haffrung;1103028I agree RPGs do a terrible job being novels and movies. But for better or worse, that's what 90+ per cent of the people who play D&D today expect and want out of the game.

That expectation isn't new.

It's natural for RPGers to want their PCs to be like movie and book heroes.

What has changed is how RPGers have lost the concept of "RPGs as a game" where losing and failure are normal aspects of play. Whereas board game and minis players have no expectation that their games will cater to their wish fulfillment fantasies.

Quote from: Crusader X;1103064Yes.  I've watched Colville's videos from the start, and his early vids about running the game and becoming a confident DM are really good viewing.  So I was looking forward to his actual play sessions that he's been teasing for quite some time.  But then the actual play streams turned out to be mind-numbingly boring and unwatchable for me.  As many play streams are, but I suppose I was hoping that Colville's would at least be somewhat entertaining.  And they're not at all.  Such a disappointment.

Real D&D doesn't make for good viewing.

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;1103095Real D&D doesn't make for good viewing.

That's why I prefer fake D&D which doesn't have out-of-character talking in it.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1103093That expectation isn't new.

It's natural for RPGers to want their PCs to be like movie and book heroes.

What has changed is how RPGers have lost the concept of "RPGs as a game" where losing and failure are normal aspects of play.

Whereas board game and minis players have no expectation that their games will cater to their wish fulfillment fantasies.

1: Its been around quite a while. See the Giants in the Earth series in Dragon for example. Or the fact OD&D drew from ALOT of sources and is not just the Hobbit.

2: From experience Id have to disagree. It is actually not normal for players to want their characters t be like those in movies and books. What they do want fairly common is to adventure in the worlds OF those movies and books. And for whatever reason a fair chunk of those seem to gravitate to the places that success is not a guarantee and defeat or death are real threats to the characters.

3a: I'd say it is more the reverse sometimes. RPGers wanting it to MORE game and less, or no, RPG. And others who want less, or no, game at all. In between that are a broad spectrum of playstyles.

3b: Usually. But there is a small faction who do not like co-ops where you lose often, or in a few rare cases, can lose at all. Most though are not that far off the edge.

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;1103095Real D&D doesn't make for good viewing.

So much this. I'm baffled by the amount of actual play podcasts and YouTube vids out there and the amount of people who spend hours watching those, as they're extremely boring for me.

It's weird huh? I mean, most sports/activities I engage with feels entertaining to watch too, but not so with RPGs. Why is that?

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;1103095Real D&D doesn't make for good viewing.

Generally I agree, though I've found some livestreams to be entertaining.  The Tomb of Annihilation one with Matt Mercer, Joe Manganiello, and Deborah Ann Woll was good.  Of course, these are three very charismatic people, so they are a big factor in its watchability.

Though Critical Role has charismatic players, but I find the show boring and I can't sit through a full episode.

There's a "D&D With Highschoolers" series which is ok.  But I like it mainly for the teaching aspect of it.  

Likewise the following series was decent, mainly to watch an experienced DM teaching a game to mostly likeable noobs:

[video=youtube;-oIIZJeVGpc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oIIZJeVGpc&t=11s[/youtube]

And the tattooed blonde is smoking hot, which admittedly contributed greatly to my interest in the show.  :)

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;1103095Real D&D doesn't make for good viewing.

True. But I wouldn't even want to play in Colville's game face-to-face. Way too much backstory and convoluted, self-indulgent world-building. For all his acumen and good sense when it comes to GM advice, Colville seems to suffer from the delusion that what's interesting and fun for the GM is interesting and fun for the players. A youtube GM who I think I would enjoy playing with, Seth Skorkowski, nails the problem in his video on 7 Deadly Gamemaster Sins (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLB8GjRNMFE) Sin #7 Excessive Worldbuilding @ 0:51

Quote from: Itachi;1103104So much this. I'm baffled by the amount of actual play podcasts and YouTube vids out there and the amount of people who spend hours watching those, as they're extremely boring for me.

It's weird huh? I mean, most sports/activities I engage with feels entertaining to watch too, but not so with RPGs. Why is that?

Most sports involve a dramatic and clear contest between two sides. That's not the case with RPGs.

I get the impression streams are mostly watched by lonely millennials who rarely go out. People in that demographic are increasingly socially isolated, so digitally immersing themselves in a group of friends playing a game for a few hours is a way to feel connected.

Quote from: Crusader X;1103106Generally I agree, though I've found some livestreams to be entertaining.  The Tomb of Annihilation one with Matt Mercer, Joe Manganiello, and Deborah Ann Woll was good.  Of course, these are three very charismatic people, so they are a big factor in its watchability.

Though Critical Role has charismatic players, but I find the show boring and I can't sit through a full episode.

There's a "D&D With Highschoolers" series which is ok.  But I like it mainly for the teaching aspect of it.  

Likewise the following series was decent, mainly to watch an experienced DM teaching a game to mostly likeable noobs:

[video=youtube;-oIIZJeVGpc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oIIZJeVGpc&t=11s[/youtube]

And the tattooed blonde is smoking hot, which admittedly contributed greatly to my interest in the show.  :)

There's a reason why so many decent looking women put their cleavage front and center on their twitch channels.
The next best thing is a charismatic person.
These shows have little to do with games, and are mostly about watching a cheap sitcom.

Hilariously, I have to disagree in a way on gameplay vids being boring to view.

Instead what you have to do is think of these sessions as akin to audiobooks or in some cases, radio plays. For many they make for interesting listening. Most are dull as dirt to watch.

Why is this so funny? Because I am hearing impaired and for me it actually helps to see people talking unless their oration is very good. Too many "uh" far too much which detracts.

Quote from: Shasarak;1102861He is now prepping for the next one (Kingdoms & Warfare (https://shop.mcdmproductions.com/)) because once you start you got to keep on feeding the beast.

That's a bit harsh.

His first Kickstarter was so successful that he left his job, and created a business with employees n' everything.

The future will determine how well that works out, but it is being taken very seriously (as a business). It's not a random sequel being rushed out by some guy in his mother's basement that got lucky the first time.

Quote from: Motorskills;1103464That's a bit harsh.

His first Kickstarter was so successful that he left his job, and created a business with employees n' everything.

The future will determine how well that works out, but it is being taken very seriously (as a business). It's not a random sequel being rushed out by some guy in his mother's basement that got lucky the first time.

I agree with you, which is why he needs something to keep the business running.

Unless, of course, the streaming is funding everything.

Quote from: Shasarak;1103507Unless, of course, the streaming is funding everything.

I don't think so. I assume there are some ongoing costs (minis maybe! :D), but most of the expenses were one-off capital items (table, lights, cameras, etc etc).

I doubt the streams are being run as a loss-leader, but it probably wouldn't be a disaster even if they were, relatively cheap advertising basically.

I don't have time for the stream(s) themselves, but Matt's post-mortem diaries are actually pretty interesting.

I believe Matt is planning to avoid burnout by rotating DMs and game systems, I think that's a good idea.

Strongholds and Followers is sat on my huge pile of unread RPG stuff, so I can't comment on that. However the first review I came across (today) was very positive. I may even farm the reading out to one of my players, the ship they captured in Saltmarsh could be turned into a 'stronghold'. :)

Quote from: cranebump;1102869Heh. Probably an apt representation of how Trump voter views society at large (around here, anyway).

Don't post political on here. Only warning.

Also, it's not. It's how Never-Trump neocons and Establishment democrats imagine the Trump Deplorables.


Yes, no one is allowed to respond here, because that would be political posting. Tough.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1103123There's a reason why so many decent looking women put their cleavage front and center on their twitch channels.
The next best thing is a charismatic person.
These shows have little to do with games, and are mostly about watching a cheap sitcom.

Well put!

Quote from: EOTB;1102123I'm just not interested in deep roleplaying to the point I have to come up with an alt-personality and make portraying that alt-personality the point of the activity.  The activity is the point of the activity.

All my characters are essentially branching variations of myself.  None are quite the same, especially over time as stuff happens in-game.  But neither am I sitting at the table going "fuck, I must come up with something wholly not-me for this to be real roleplaying".  I want fun places to explore, situations to exploit, enemies that try their damnedest to take me out (and I likewise), and interesting objectives I choose myself.  "roleplaying" is encouraged when it's both natural and fun-enhancing for everyone at the table, and if very little of that happens during a session because the action's hopping then that's OK too.  

I don't, for instance, make players have a fake conversation in order to buy a suit of armor.  Handwaive that stuff.

100% agree. As a player I'm about fun gameplay, and the occasional one liner makes up the bulk of my roleplaying. As a GM however there's way more RP to try and try and differentiate NPCs.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1103123T
These shows have little to do with games, and are mostly about watching a cheap sitcom.

I agree they are more show than game, and as a result a poor example of actual play. Better than no example? Maybe.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1103723Don't post political on here. Only warning.

Also, it's not. It's how Never-Trump neocons and Establishment democrats imagine the Trump Deplorables.


Yes, no one is allowed to respond here, because that would be political posting. Tough.

It's an observation based on people I actually heard reacting to the omnipresent Fox News broadcast in a local pizza shack.

Not that you were actually there to witness it, of course...

This thread inspired me to check out Matt's streaming game. And...his commentary after the game about the game turned out to be more interesting to me than the game itself. Which I guess is as it should be, as watching others play isn't that interesting for me in general.

Quote from: Mistwell;1103960This thread inspired me to check out Matt's streaming game. And...his commentary after the game about the game turned out to be more interesting to me than the game itself. Which I guess is as it should be, as watching others play isn't that interesting for me in general.

Yep. Mother May I game sessions are very boring to watch/listen to. They don't have any story by the end of their session. They don't come across as old radio shows (theater of the mind stuff). Lots of dead air time.

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;1103966Yep. Mother May I game sessions are very boring to watch/listen to. They don't have any story by the end of their session. They don't come across as old radio shows (theater of the mind stuff). Lots of dead air time.

I don't find these to be "Mother May I" type games at all.

Quote from: hedgehobbit;1102925When DMs say, "how do I get my players to role-play", this is, more often than not, them saying, "how do I get my players invested in my game world and metaplot" rather than "how do I get my characters to have complex motivations." At least IME.

I want the players to play a character who is in and of the game world they are in. That is seldom a hero they saw in a recent movie or TV show. And it's also not just the player, but better looking and with pointy ears or shorter, stronger, fatter, and more bearded.

A couple of things that came to mind as I watched the video.

1) It's all well and good that he defined his terms for the sake of clarity. But I'm not sure how well his definition holds up to how the terms are used. I observed a long time ago and over the years that the term "roleplaying" in Roleplaying games is over-loaded, much like D&D's use of the word "level" for four entirely different things.

One of the ways I've observed the word "roleplaying" is used in RPGs is specifically to mean character interaction. As opposed to puzzle-solving, or combat, etc. "Roleplaying" is just the name given to character interaction within an RPG and isn't necessarily to say (or suggest anyone means) that this is what an RPG ought to be about. I suppose within this sort of activity in an RPG is something of a hierarchy. With third-person description of your character being base level, first-person speaking in character being the next level, and doing voices while you speak in character being at the top.

I suppose you could say the opposite extreme is another definition of "roleplaying" which I guess comes from the computer game genre. And that simply defines the genre as things where characters have stats that are displayed on a character sheet. The original Wizardry game, which I love, really doesn't have any roleplaying in it. But it's considered an RPG because you've got characters with race, class, level, several attributes, hit points, you have equipment, and so forth. Matt seems to call this 0-dimensional characters. But like the previous definition of roleplaying I mentioned, it's really an activity in itself and I don't feel it's really accurate to place it up a roleplaying continuum or hierarchy.

2) I have my own ideas of what a 3-dimensional character is, and whether that's even the pinnacle of achievement. Maybe it's a function of my DMing style. Or my understanding of the real world. I try to bring some of that complexity into the RPG when I run a game. At it's lowest level, you do kind of want to min-max, play smart, and just be real good at survival and achievement of goals. That is the lowest level, but you don't get to skip it. Differences in character personality, even though they may seem arbitrary, serve a purpose. If you believe the whole evolution thing, real world people wouldn't vary so dramatically in personality unless the different personalities had some evolutionary advantage.

It's obvious how the cautious and prudent type would have a survival advantage. The brash, risk-taking type, however, makes sense in the Braveheart sort of way where everyone's going to die--this is the type that truly "lives" in the sense that they're willing to take bigger risks and so can achieve whole new echelons--including achievements that then enhance safety and security above and beyond what the prudent character could achieve. I have legit seen many RPGers on forums over the years say things like, "Well, if we were really role-playing realistically, no one would enter a dungeon. It would be against their survival interests." But in a world of death and disease and marauding orcs and dragons, it's not obvious that going out and getting a bunch of gold (not to mention levels) and being able to build a stronghold and gain a military force at your disposal is a more risky strategy afterall.

So the next level, beyond once you've learned to survive and use your stats effectively is to break the patterns, go off the rails of mathematical optimization with an eye on the bigger picture. And this in part comes from having a distinct character personality. Matt might term this the 1-dimensional character.

What he terms the 3-dimensional character, then, is one who has experienced that, being this one way has it's benefits but has serious blind spots and drawbacks. And so you have to ascend that to be this other way. But the other way has its drawbacks and weaknesses, too. So the realized character has these multiple dimensions. And this can lead to a lot of internal conflict when figuring out which way to go. I just don't think that is the highest tier of play. In practice, when I've seen gamers get to this level, it just leads to a whole lot of indecision in play that slows the game to a crawl and really makes for a less fun game.

The next tier, then, is the one that despite these 3-dimensional complexities, is able to be decisive, leaving (or at least appearing to leave) behind the internal conflict of the 3-dimensional character. This would be the hero of the highest caliber. But given the complexities, it's not like there's a set of instructions one can give for playing on this level. It requires a grounding in the lowest tiers of play. So it's not like you can say "I'm a role-player of this great paragon level. I can create fully realized 3 dimensional heroic characters, and play them exactly right so that they have depth without becoming indecisive and killing the game." You almost have to learn and develop each character through the school of hard knocks. Beginning as a 0 dimensional character and working your way up, learning the practical lessons at each step of the way. Perhaps more experienced gamers can even begin with 1-dimensional characters with a pinky toe already dipped into 3-dimensional status. But it's not a fully realized character without some fine-tuning from extensive actual play and being put in different situations.

I disagree with Colville that there is necessarily any value in a player playing a PC different from themselves, as opposed to the player inhabiting the character. Some of the greatest characters IMCs were very much that player's perspective on things, but as a hero in a fantasy world. That goes for many fictional characters too:

Conan = RE Howard
Frodo = Tolkien
Elric = Moorcock
Luke Skywalker = George Lucas

These are the kind of characters who transcend the fiction and become mythic. IMCs (http://simonyrpgs.blogspot.com/2019/02/going-all-way.html) this would be characters like Hakeem the Destroyer (Chris) and Lirael of Loudwater (Kimberly).

Quote from: S'mon;1104073I disagree with Colville that there is necessarily any value in a player playing a PC different from themselves, as opposed to the player inhabiting the character. Some of the greatest characters IMCs were very much that player's perspective on things, but as a hero in a fantasy world.

I agree as well. I play mostly with my own kids and their friends now and they really fall into the game as a fantasy; what we would call immersion. Seeing it from their perspective, I can see the huge limits to playing a game where you're primary motivation is deciding what your character does or feels. It's another level of separation between the player and the game world.

This is doubly true in a horror game. You don't want the players trying to decide if their character is scared. You want to scare the players themselves.

Quote from: hedgehobbit;1104236You want to scare the players themselves.

Absolutely.  Everything I do at the table is aimed at stirring the players.  I just don't care about the characters in comparison; the goal is always to invoke involuntary reactions in the players: laughter, horror, tension, greed, curiosity - what have you.

Players faithfully proxying another personality is so far down the list of goals I have for my games as to be a "whatever; if it floats your boat".  Kind of like getting a primo parking space before a concert or something - great if it happens but not a goal.