For a long time I've been battling between adding (or not) skills to my games a la AD&D2e
I've even made some reduced skill lists.
But I don't want the characters to grow just because, and "buying" the skill (training) is always something done off screen so why bother?
Well, I think I have come up with a "Skill System" that allows the characters to get better at stuff not on their class but it's always on screen:
Attributes go from 3-18 and never change.
Attribute modifiers go from -3 to +3 and never change... Unless...
To attempt to pick a lock you roll 1d20 against your saving throw + whatever attribute modifier the GM thinks pertinent, if you succeed you did it, after a number of successes you gain one level of training (You start as Untrained):
UNTRAINED
ROOKIE
NOVICE
VERSED
EXPERT
MASTER
LEGEND
Lets say the number is 10 successful attempts.
Every 3 levels of training give you a +1 for your next attempt.
Every failure between levels cancels a succes, because you haven't really learned and it was luck that you did it the last time.
From Rookie onwards every natural 20 counts as two attempts, so if you manage 5 attempts and get a natural 20 in each then you get the next level in training.
What do you guys think?
Edited to add:
The +1 for your next try only applies to that particular task:
Lets say you're trying to pick a lock, well you start getting better at it but your DEX and it's modifier remain the same for anything else related.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on November 30, 2021, 07:46:12 PM
For a long time I've been battling between adding (or not) skills to my games a la AD&D2e
I've even made some reduced skill lists.
...
Another option is to get rid of skill lists entirely: I really like the backgrounds/occupations used as skills like in Barbarians of Lemuria.
My house rule variant that I will be shortly trying out is this:
Kraven the Thief has the following Backgrounds :
Thief: 3
Smuggler: 2
Hunter: 1
Urchin: 2
For proficiencies; I would have them name/label the specific thing that they want to be good at, and you get to roll with advantage when your proficiency applies.
Your former 'skill' list is now the proficiency list.
So Kravens player wants to sneak across the courtyard. Well Kraven has a Thief 3 that would certainly apply. Kraven also has proficiency in 'Silent move' which would certainly apply in this case.
So Kravens player Rolls a d20, + dex bonus + Thief 3, with advantage because of his proficiency.
Kraven is now across the courtyard to a wall. Luckily Kraven also has a proficiency 'Scale Sheer Surface'...
Notice that a characters "backgrounds/occupations" skills are not tied to any given stat.
So if Kraven now wants to open a locked box the GM may give him options: he can pick the Lock rolling with his thief + dex bonus, but that will take a few rounds and he can hear guards coming. Or the GM says you think you can force the lock as well; roll Strength bonus + Thief to get it done quick.
Kraven does not have a "Pick Lock' proficiency, so he does not roll with advantage.
When playing Honor + Intrigue for the first time it took my players a session or so to wrap their heads around the 'backgrounds as skills' concept because they were so broad.
But those sessions convinced me that when I run an D&D/d20 based game in the future, house-ruling in the system I have above is worth a try.
Quote from: Jaeger on November 30, 2021, 08:16:24 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on November 30, 2021, 07:46:12 PM
For a long time I've been battling between adding (or not) skills to my games a la AD&D2e
I've even made some reduced skill lists.
...
Another option is to get rid of skill lists entirely: I really like the backgrounds/occupations used as skills like in Barbarians of Lemuria.
My house rule variant that I will be shortly trying out is this:
Kraven the Thief has the following Backgrounds :
Thief: 3
Smuggler: 2
Hunter: 1
Urchin: 2
For proficiencies; I would have them name/label the specific thing that they want to be good at, and you get to roll with advantage when your proficiency applies.
Your former 'skill' list is now the proficiency list.
So Kravens player wants to sneak across the courtyard. Well Kraven has a Thief 3 that would certainly apply. Kraven also has proficiency in 'Silent move' which would certainly apply in this case.
So Kravens player Rolls a d20, + dex bonus + Thief 3, with advantage because of his proficiency.
Kraven is now across the courtyard to a wall. Luckily Kraven also has a proficiency 'Scale Sheer Surface'...
Notice that a characters "backgrounds/occupations" skills are not tied to any given stat.
So if Kraven now wants to open a locked box the GM may give him options: he can pick the Lock rolling with his thief + dex bonus, but that will take a few rounds and he can hear guards coming. Or the GM says you think you can force the lock as well; roll Strength bonus + Thief to get it done quick.
Kraven does not have a "Pick Lock' proficiency, so he does not roll with advantage.
When playing Honor + Intrigue for the first time it took my players a session or so to wrap their heads around the 'backgrounds as skills' concept because they were so broad.
But those sessions convinced me that when I run an D&D/d20 based game in the future, house-ruling in the system I have above is worth a try.
Maybe I didn't explain myself, the system is to avoid ANY type of skill lists, not even the BoL backgrounds are needed.
You can attempt anything and doing it enough times means you learn how to do it. Since it is in-game you HAVE to either role play it and roll or just roll depending on the task and GM.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on November 30, 2021, 08:23:35 PM
Quote from: Jaeger on November 30, 2021, 08:16:24 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on November 30, 2021, 07:46:12 PM
For a long time I've been battling between adding (or not) skills to my games a la AD&D2e
I've even made some reduced skill lists.
...
Another option is to get rid of skill lists entirely: I really like the backgrounds/occupations used as skills like in Barbarians of Lemuria.
My house rule variant that I will be shortly trying out is this:
Kraven the Thief has the following Backgrounds :
Thief: 3
Smuggler: 2
Hunter: 1
Urchin: 2
For proficiencies; I would have them name/label the specific thing that they want to be good at, and you get to roll with advantage when your proficiency applies.
Your former 'skill' list is now the proficiency list.
So Kravens player wants to sneak across the courtyard. Well Kraven has a Thief 3 that would certainly apply. Kraven also has proficiency in 'Silent move' which would certainly apply in this case.
So Kravens player Rolls a d20, + dex bonus + Thief 3, with advantage because of his proficiency.
Kraven is now across the courtyard to a wall. Luckily Kraven also has a proficiency 'Scale Sheer Surface'...
Notice that a characters "backgrounds/occupations" skills are not tied to any given stat.
So if Kraven now wants to open a locked box the GM may give him options: he can pick the Lock rolling with his thief + dex bonus, but that will take a few rounds and he can hear guards coming. Or the GM says you think you can force the lock as well; roll Strength bonus + Thief to get it done quick.
Kraven does not have a "Pick Lock' proficiency, so he does not roll with advantage.
When playing Honor + Intrigue for the first time it took my players a session or so to wrap their heads around the 'backgrounds as skills' concept because they were so broad.
But those sessions convinced me that when I run an D&D/d20 based game in the future, house-ruling in the system I have above is worth a try.
Maybe I didn't explain myself, the system is to avoid ANY type of skill lists, not even the BoL backgrounds are needed.
You can attempt anything and doing it enough times means you learn how to do it. Since it is in-game you HAVE to either role play it and roll or just roll depending on the task and GM.
So everyone starts completely untrained in everything? That's going a bit too far into the zero-to-heo line for me. That's much like playing D&D and starting with no proficiencoes (in armor, weapons, skills, or anything) nor spells. Your idea isn't bad, but starting from absolute zero isn't a great idea. Raise the floor a bit so characters have some variety at the start.
Quote from: HappyDaze on November 30, 2021, 08:39:27 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on November 30, 2021, 08:23:35 PM
Quote from: Jaeger on November 30, 2021, 08:16:24 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on November 30, 2021, 07:46:12 PM
For a long time I've been battling between adding (or not) skills to my games a la AD&D2e
I've even made some reduced skill lists.
...
Another option is to get rid of skill lists entirely: I really like the backgrounds/occupations used as skills like in Barbarians of Lemuria.
My house rule variant that I will be shortly trying out is this:
Kraven the Thief has the following Backgrounds :
Thief: 3
Smuggler: 2
Hunter: 1
Urchin: 2
For proficiencies; I would have them name/label the specific thing that they want to be good at, and you get to roll with advantage when your proficiency applies.
Your former 'skill' list is now the proficiency list.
So Kravens player wants to sneak across the courtyard. Well Kraven has a Thief 3 that would certainly apply. Kraven also has proficiency in 'Silent move' which would certainly apply in this case.
So Kravens player Rolls a d20, + dex bonus + Thief 3, with advantage because of his proficiency.
Kraven is now across the courtyard to a wall. Luckily Kraven also has a proficiency 'Scale Sheer Surface'...
Notice that a characters "backgrounds/occupations" skills are not tied to any given stat.
So if Kraven now wants to open a locked box the GM may give him options: he can pick the Lock rolling with his thief + dex bonus, but that will take a few rounds and he can hear guards coming. Or the GM says you think you can force the lock as well; roll Strength bonus + Thief to get it done quick.
Kraven does not have a "Pick Lock' proficiency, so he does not roll with advantage.
When playing Honor + Intrigue for the first time it took my players a session or so to wrap their heads around the 'backgrounds as skills' concept because they were so broad.
But those sessions convinced me that when I run an D&D/d20 based game in the future, house-ruling in the system I have above is worth a try.
Maybe I didn't explain myself, the system is to avoid ANY type of skill lists, not even the BoL backgrounds are needed.
You can attempt anything and doing it enough times means you learn how to do it. Since it is in-game you HAVE to either role play it and roll or just roll depending on the task and GM.
So everyone starts completely untrained in everything? That's going a bit too far into the zero-to-heo line for me. That's much like playing D&D and starting with no proficiencoes (in armor, weapons, skills, or anything) nor spells. Your idea isn't bad, but starting from absolute zero isn't a great idea. Raise the floor a bit so characters have some variety at the start.
Nope, everybody starts trained at the stuff their class does, The warrior his weapons/armor/etc. The Wizard his magic, etc. The Thief his thievery etc.
But your Warrior CAN learn to pick locks and get better at it given enough tries. And your Wizard can become proficient with a crossbow given enoug tries.
What I want to do is to allow your character to grow in-game and not off screen.
So you want to learn to play the lire? Fine, role play it for me and then if you do it well you get to roll and I might even give you a bonus for your roleplaying.
It doesn't matter you're a warrior, it matters that you invest the time in-game to learn it.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on November 30, 2021, 07:46:12 PM
To attempt to pick a lock you roll 1d20 against your saving throw + whatever attribute modifier the GM thinks pertinent, if you succeed you did it, after a number of successes you gain one level of training (You start as Untrained):
UNTRAINED
ROOKIE
NOVICE
VERSED
EXPERT
MASTER
LEGEND
Lets say the number is 10 successful attempts.
Every 3 levels of training give you a +1 for your next attempt.
Every failure between levels cancels a succes, because you haven't really learned and it was luck that you did it the last time.
From Rookie onwards every natural 20 counts as two attempts, so if you manage 5 attempts and get a natural 20 in each then you get the next level in training.
What do you guys think?
Interesting. I'm used to BRP games like RuneQuest and Call of Cthulhu, which advance in play. In those systems:
1) It requires a successful test to get an increase check, but only one check per adventure in each skill.
2) It has diminishing returns, requiring a rolled failure to get an increase.
Without those, I think the rate of increase will accelerate. As someone gets better in a skill, they'll use it more frequently and get more successful attempts. Games more often have diminishing returns, like requiring more skill points per level.
Quote from: jhkim on November 30, 2021, 11:52:41 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on November 30, 2021, 07:46:12 PM
To attempt to pick a lock you roll 1d20 against your saving throw + whatever attribute modifier the GM thinks pertinent, if you succeed you did it, after a number of successes you gain one level of training (You start as Untrained):
UNTRAINED
ROOKIE
NOVICE
VERSED
EXPERT
MASTER
LEGEND
Lets say the number is 10 successful attempts.
Every 3 levels of training give you a +1 for your next attempt.
Every failure between levels cancels a succes, because you haven't really learned and it was luck that you did it the last time.
From Rookie onwards every natural 20 counts as two attempts, so if you manage 5 attempts and get a natural 20 in each then you get the next level in training.
What do you guys think?
Interesting. I'm used to BRP games like RuneQuest and Call of Cthulhu, which advance in play. In those systems:
1) It requires a successful test to get an increase check, but only one check per adventure in each skill.
2) It has diminishing returns, requiring a rolled failure to get an increase.
Without those, I think the rate of increase will accelerate. As someone gets better in a skill, they'll use it more frequently and get more successful attempts. Games more often have diminishing returns, like requiring more skill points per level.
Diminishing returns...
Well you get from untrained to rookie way faster than from versed to expert IRL, so it makes sense.
Lets see:
Every level after rookie requires 50% more attempts than the previous.
Thoughts?
Quote from: GeekyBugle on November 30, 2021, 08:53:06 PM
Nope, everybody starts trained at the stuff their class does, The warrior his weapons/armor/etc. The Wizard his magic, etc. The Thief his thievery etc.
But your Warrior CAN learn to pick locks and get better at it given enough tries. And your Wizard can become proficient with a crossbow given enoug tries.
What I want to do is to allow your character to grow in-game and not off screen.
So you want to learn to play the lire? Fine, role play it for me and then if you do it well you get to roll and I might even give you a bonus for your roleplaying.
It doesn't matter you're a warrior, it matters that you invest the time in-game to learn it.
Ok I see more clearly what you are getting at here.
So maybe something like this:
Everything would be an ability check. So every class can theoretically do/try every "skill".
(Magic users would be considered 'gifted' so not everyone can just learn magic - there would be some limits - and there would probably be a few more I can't think of now.)
But PC's get a bonus for their "class stuff": The warrior his weapons/armor/etc. The Wizard his magic, etc. The Thief his thievery etc.
So essentially each class has a list of a "special set of skills" that they are proficient in.
I would simply say that they can announce that they are training for the skill and will have to learn it in down time.
So they have to either spend a certain amount of XP over time - or you make a downtime training mechanic that for every x days spent training they get to roll a d6 and mark off the amount of effort spent to learn a new proficiency. When they have invested in enough training time to mark off enough effort, they then get to add that skill to their class proficiencies.
Personally I would keep it as simple as possible.
+2 Student
+4 Expert (All classes have some proficiencies that start at this level)
+6 Mastery
In this way you can make all proficiency increases have to take place under the downtime mechanic, or maybe have a mini system where if they roll a natural 20 or beat a DC by 10+ they get to mark
x amount of effort towards advancing a proficiency.
The higher the proficiency level, the more effort they need to mark off to advance it.
I would really want to avoid any system that does a bunch of small +1 Increases, as I feel it would defeat the purpose of getting rid of the complication of a skill system.
Quote from: Jaeger on December 01, 2021, 02:16:14 AM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on November 30, 2021, 08:53:06 PM
Nope, everybody starts trained at the stuff their class does, The warrior his weapons/armor/etc. The Wizard his magic, etc. The Thief his thievery etc.
But your Warrior CAN learn to pick locks and get better at it given enough tries. And your Wizard can become proficient with a crossbow given enoug tries.
What I want to do is to allow your character to grow in-game and not off screen.
So you want to learn to play the lire? Fine, role play it for me and then if you do it well you get to roll and I might even give you a bonus for your roleplaying.
It doesn't matter you're a warrior, it matters that you invest the time in-game to learn it.
Ok I see more clearly what you are getting at here.
So maybe something like this:
Everything would be an ability check. So every class can theoretically do/try every "skill".
(Magic users would be considered 'gifted' so there would be some limits - and a few more I probably can't think of now.)
But PC's get a bonus for their "class stuff": The warrior his weapons/armor/etc. The Wizard his magic, etc. The Thief his thievery etc.
So essentially each class has a list of a "special set of skills" that they are proficient in.
I would simply say that they can announce that they are training for the skill and will have to learn it in down time.
So they have to either spend a certain amount of XP over time - or you make a downtime training mechanic that for every x days spent training they get to roll a d6 and mark off the amount of effort spent to learn a new proficiency. When they have invested in enough training time to mark off enough effort, they then get to add that skill to their class proficiencies.
Personally I would keep it as simple as possible.
+2 Student
+4 Expert (All classes have some proficiencies that start at this level)
+6 Mastery
In this way you can make all proficiency increases have to take place under the downtime mechanic, or maybe have a mini system where if they roll a natural 20 or beat a DC by 10+ they get to mark x amount of effort towards advancing a proficiency.
The higher the proficiency level, the more effort they need to mark off to advance it.
I would really want to avoid any system that does a bunch of small +1 Increases, as I feel it would defeat the purpose of getting rid of the complication of a skill system.
I always treat magic as a gift, you're born a mage/wizard/witch/wantever but you HAVE TO learn to use your "powers".
What you just described is the AD&D2e way, and it happens off screen, which is one of the things I don't want, I want the learning to be ON-Screen.
I also need a way to keep the thief better at thieving than the rest. So, maybe cap the skills not of your class?
Quote from: GeekyBugle on December 01, 2021, 02:34:34 AM
What you just described is the AD&D2e way, and it happens off screen, which is one of the things I don't want, I want the learning to be ON-Screen.
I also need a way to keep the thief better at thieving than the rest. So, maybe cap the skills not of your class?
I would combine my two ideas then.
Make all proficiency increases have to take place under the downtime mechanic,
AND have a system where if they roll a natural 20 or beat a DC by 10+ they get to mark x amount of effort towards advancing a proficiency.
You can have the requirement require more in game rolls over the downtime.
Capping how high you can learn a non-class skill is not a bad idea.
From my example: I would cap learning you non class skills at Expert. Only dedicated classes can get a "skill" to Mastery.
I am a fan of having a formalized downtime mechanic and actions as I feel it makes puts like spell research, healing, info gathering, and training for things over time into a format that players can engage with and have a firm idea of what they need to do for such activities. IMHO it also takes a a lot of the workload off of the GM to have to decide such things each time they come up.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on December 01, 2021, 02:06:33 AM
Quote from: jhkim on November 30, 2021, 11:52:41 PM
Interesting. I'm used to BRP games like RuneQuest and Call of Cthulhu, which advance in play. In those systems:
1) It requires a successful test to get an increase check, but only one check per adventure in each skill.
2) It has diminishing returns, requiring a rolled failure to get an increase.
Without those, I think the rate of increase will accelerate. As someone gets better in a skill, they'll use it more frequently and get more successful attempts. Games more often have diminishing returns, like requiring more skill points per level.
Diminishing returns...
Well you get from untrained to rookie way faster than from versed to expert IRL, so it makes sense.
Lets see:
Every level after rookie requires 50% more attempts than the previous.
Thoughts?
That sounds reasonable for diminishing returns.
I should bring up the issue of "hunting for checks". With any experience system, that is a meta-mechanic that affects player behavior. To some degree, it is intentional that players should have to show trying different skills in-play in order to advance in them. I've observed in BRP-based games, players are motivated to find excuses to try different skills, especially if there are in a situation with low consequences. So, they find an open window - but they all try to pick the door lock anyway to get the check. Or alternately, they find a reason to climb to the balcony instead of using the stairs to get a climb check.
This is mitigated in BRP by the rule of "max one check per adventure". That rule has a major effect because some skills are rolled on with much greater frequency than others - especially those which are rolled on repeatedly, like combat skills that are re-rolled every round, while non-combat skills are often rolled just once for an extended task. This does mean that players will often rotate between skills - like having many different weapons they will try. After succeeding with a sword (and thus getting a check), they switch to a club or axe to get a check on that too.
To some degree, this is intentional and desired. Players are using different skills in play to get advancement. But one should be aware about exactly what it motivates.
Quote from: Jaeger on December 01, 2021, 02:48:20 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on December 01, 2021, 02:34:34 AM
What you just described is the AD&D2e way, and it happens off screen, which is one of the things I don't want, I want the learning to be ON-Screen.
I also need a way to keep the thief better at thieving than the rest. So, maybe cap the skills not of your class?
I would combine my two ideas then.
Make all proficiency increases have to take place under the downtime mechanic, AND have a system where if they roll a natural 20 or beat a DC by 10+ they get to mark x amount of effort towards advancing a proficiency.
You can have the requirement require more in game rolls over the downtime.
Capping how high you can learn a non-class skill is not a bad idea.
From my example: I would cap learning you non class skills at Expert. Only dedicated classes can get a "skill" to Mastery.
I am a fan of having a formalized downtime mechanic and actions as I feel it makes puts like spell research, healing, info gathering, and training for things over time into a format that players can engage with and have a firm idea of what they need to do for such activities. IMHO it also takes a a lot of the workload off of the GM to have to decide such things each time they come up.
That's a good cap IMHO, add the law of diminishing returns and you have protected niches while allowing anyone to learn ALMOST anything, since inherent powers (Like magic or psionics) can't be learned.
QuoteWhat you just described is the AD&D2e way, and it happens off screen, which is one of the things I don't want, I want the learning to be ON-Screen.
I have to say that sounds like CHORE. I think Burning Wheel had somehow simmilar system.
I'd considering class-level based level of AD&D rather link all advancement tightly to level.
But while it's IMHO wiser overall to put all advancement in like rest time between adventures when leveling happen I think you can achieve some level of ON-Screen by giving people some minimal RP demands. Like you have some list of skills and you have to use them in game (aside of between-adventures training) to spend Skill Point on them during Advance.
Way simpler than counting every successful use of skill, all around the clock.
QuoteThat's a good cap IMHO, add the law of diminishing returns and you have protected niches while allowing anyone to learn ALMOST anything, since inherent powers (Like magic or psionics) can't be learned.
Question is - does thief has unique battle abilities that would distinguish him even without being best actual thief (therefore evolving him more into rogue.). If there are such - then mundane skill protection seems less important. There is also - another 3e inspired option - give Thief more skill advances per level to spend.
How many Classes are u using overall?
Quote from: Wrath of God on December 01, 2021, 07:34:04 PM
QuoteWhat you just described is the AD&D2e way, and it happens off screen, which is one of the things I don't want, I want the learning to be ON-Screen.
I have to say that sounds like CHORE. I think Burning Wheel had somehow simmilar system.
I'd considering class-level based level of AD&D rather link all advancement tightly to level.
But while it's IMHO wiser overall to put all advancement in like rest time between adventures when leveling happen I think you can achieve some level of ON-Screen by giving people some minimal RP demands. Like you have some list of skills and you have to use them in game (aside of between-adventures training) to spend Skill Point on them during Advance.
Way simpler than counting every successful use of skill, all around the clock.
QuoteThat's a good cap IMHO, add the law of diminishing returns and you have protected niches while allowing anyone to learn ALMOST anything, since inherent powers (Like magic or psionics) can't be learned.
Question is - does thief has unique battle abilities that would distinguish him even without being best actual thief (therefore evolving him more into rogue.). If there are such - then mundane skill protection seems less important. There is also - another 3e inspired option - give Thief more skill advances per level to spend.
How many Classes are u using overall?
4 classes
Sorta, kinda, maybe, could be
Behold, a skill system! ;D
Was a bit disappointed since I was hoping this was on physical size. But no biggie, I love skills too!
One of my favorite games, ADOM, has a great skill system you might be interested in. It's d100, and one of my favorite aspects is that as you go higher in skill level, you get to roll multiple times. So someone with 80 points in a skill would multiple times and take the highest result. I adapted that rule to my own game and made a rule where anyone with 16 skill ranks would allow them to get to roll 3d20s. You couldn't get the benefit if you had the bonus from raw stats. Just skill ranks. One's skills were determined by race and class, but you could learn more.
Will skills let you get bonuses to combat stuff? ADOM also does that:
Alertness: Slightly increases Dodge chance and also heavily increases your chance to dodge "Combat Magic", aka Ray type spells like Death Ray, Lightning Bolt, magic missiles, etc. Also
allowed you to detect traps.
Athletics: Increases the rate you improve your physical skills as well as provides a tiny speed boost (since it was a Roguelike, this meant you got to take actions more often).
Dodge: Self explanatory.
Archery: Also self explanatory. Archers got improved bonuses from the skill.
Backstabbing: Sneak attack damage bonuses.
Find Weakness: Increased Critical Hit Rate.
Courage: Lowered the penalties for fighting multiple enemies.
Tactics: Improved stat changes from Tactics; basically fighting aggressively/berserking, fighting defensively/running.
A MUD I've been thinking of lately had combat skills too. Stuff like Bashing, Blindfighting, Kicking, etc.
Quote from: PsyXypher on December 02, 2021, 12:21:09 AM
Was a bit disappointed since I was hoping this was on physical size. But no biggie, I love skills too!
One of my favorite games, ADOM, has a great skill system you might be interested in. It's d100, and one of my favorite aspects is that as you go higher in skill level, you get to roll multiple times. So someone with 80 points in a skill would multiple times and take the highest result. I adapted that rule to my own game and made a rule where anyone with 16 skill ranks would allow them to get to roll 3d20s. You couldn't get the benefit if you had the bonus from raw stats. Just skill ranks. One's skills were determined by race and class, but you could learn more.
Will skills let you get bonuses to combat stuff? ADOM also does that:
Alertness: Slightly increases Dodge chance and also heavily increases your chance to dodge "Combat Magic", aka Ray type spells like Death Ray, Lightning Bolt, magic missiles, etc. Also
allowed you to detect traps.
Athletics: Increases the rate you improve your physical skills as well as provides a tiny speed boost (since it was a Roguelike, this meant you got to take actions more often).
Dodge: Self explanatory.
Archery: Also self explanatory. Archers got improved bonuses from the skill.
Backstabbing: Sneak attack damage bonuses.
Find Weakness: Increased Critical Hit Rate.
Courage: Lowered the penalties for fighting multiple enemies.
Tactics: Improved stat changes from Tactics; basically fighting aggressively/berserking, fighting defensively/running.
A MUD I've been thinking of lately had combat skills too. Stuff like Bashing, Blindfighting, Kicking, etc.
You want it in pdf?
Some of those feel more like feats or class features.
But to answer your question it's up to the GM to decide if a particular skill affects something, but I would guess being trained in a weapon would have some effect in combat.
Not bad.
Though there are big jumps in certain point, so I wonder if your original... seven ranks would not be bit more naturally granular. But then there may be not enough levels for it.
Quote from: Wrath of God on December 02, 2021, 05:54:38 AM
Not bad.
Though there are big jumps in certain point, so I wonder if your original... seven ranks would not be bit more naturally granular. But then there may be not enough levels for it.
It could work with 7 ranks but only (I think) with a d100 and then buying a new skill should be every level not every other level.
Think I'll make the Thief/Rogue/Expert start with 6 skill points at 1st level. Or maybe not since it's the class with more skills by default.
But why with d100.
I mean d20 is abridged d100 anyway.
IIRC you roll d20 under/equal level of skill?
UNTRAINED 1
ROOKIE 4
NOVICE 7
VERSED 10
EXPERT 13
MASTER 16
LEGEND 19
Something like that's let's say. Of course with Attribute modificator.
And then rather than giving advances per se you can give Skill Points with rising costs to apply - easy to learn, hard to master idea.
2 points for Untrained, 3 for Rookie, 4 for Novice, 5 for Versed and so on.
You spend points each time you have mid-level resting time to train and so on.
If you wanna be really brutal you can make them roll for Skill Points each level :P
Quote from: Wrath of God on December 02, 2021, 11:44:16 AM
But why with d100.
I mean d20 is abridged d100 anyway.
IIRC you roll d20 under/equal level of skill?
UNTRAINED 1
ROOKIE 4
NOVICE 7
VERSED 10
EXPERT 13
MASTER 16
LEGEND 19
Something like that's let's say. Of course with Attribute modificator.
And then rather than giving advances per se you can give Skill Points with rising costs to apply - easy to learn, hard to master idea.
2 points for Untrained, 3 for Rookie, 4 for Novice, 5 for Versed and so on.
You spend points each time you have mid-level resting time to train and so on.
If you wanna be really brutal you can make them roll for Skill Points each level :P
No, it's d20 + modifiers roll equal or above the target number. At least on the d20 version, but that's easy to fix, just invert the target numbers.
Care to expand? I'm not sure I'm groking what you're saying.
Are those the costs of a rank? or the points they get?
If those are the rank prices how many points do they get? Or do they have to spend coin?
QuoteNo, it's d20 + modifiers roll equal or above the target number. At least on the d20 version, but that's easy to fix, just invert the target numbers.
Ah, ok d20 variant, I thought you went with older D&D forms where you rolled under skill like in Warhammer.
In this case - rather than named ranks, just have... dunno just numbers, bonus value. From 0 to dunno 10 or smth (depends what's scope of skill challenge you plan for your game).
What I was thinking is like that:
UNTRAINED _
ROOKIE _ _ _
NOVICE _ _ _ _ _
VERSED _ _ _ _ _ _ _
EXPERT _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
MASTER _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
LEGEND _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
For each skill point spend you mark one box on a graph. Each level you have to spend all level-points, this is in-life decision what skills you decided to train.
You can give option for some extra point here and there - for instance downtime rules of Warhammer 4e gives you ability to take 1 to 3 endeavours per each inter-adventure break. You can make some money from business for instance, get more supporters or contacts, or... pay trainer to get extra skill point beyond your class/level.
Now to know how many points give for level you gonna croak the maths and decide - how skilled in those general skills you want your PC's be - let's say as 20 lvl Epic World-Known Heroes.
And then adjust skill per level.
0e way of handling things explained for newbs:
OK but how Action Roll in D&D 0e worked?
Quote from: Wrath of God on December 02, 2021, 06:38:56 PM
OK but how Action Roll in D&D 0e worked?
LOL, roll under your attribute.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on November 30, 2021, 07:46:12 PM
But I don't want the characters to grow just because, and "buying" the skill (training) is always something done off screen so why bother?
I think it was a B/X blog, I can't recall, but they had a mini-system which was something like:
- You try to do something - Open Doors, Pick Locks, Bake Bread, whatever you like
- Write it down, and write down "E X P E R T" next to that thing.
- Throw 1d6, if you get 6+ you succeed
- If successful, cross off one letter of the word "expert."
- Once you have crossed out every letter of the word, you are now an expert in that skill, you get +1 to it.
- Now write down "M A S T E R" next to the skill and repeat this process, this will become a +2.
Quote from: Kyle Aaron on December 02, 2021, 10:24:01 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on November 30, 2021, 07:46:12 PM
But I don't want the characters to grow just because, and "buying" the skill (training) is always something done off screen so why bother?
I think it was a B/X blog, I can't recall, but they had a mini-system which was something like:
- You try to do something - Open Doors, Pick Locks, Bake Bread, whatever you like
- Write it down, and write down "E X P E R T" next to that thing.
- Throw 1d6, if you get 6+ you succeed
- If successful, cross off one letter of the word "expert."
- Once you have crossed out every letter of the word, you are now an expert in that skill, you get +1 to it.
- Now write down "M A S T E R" next to the skill and repeat this process, this will become a +2.
I think that could work.