I don't know if it'll help marketing but It will get all the right people pissed off if you get Pundit or Venger to write an introduction.

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on March 16, 2023, 01:19:12 PM
I don't read products written from spite. Countering SJW subversive spite with your own spite just makes 2 shit products.

Creativity defined by opposition tends to be shit. Write for what you stand for, not what you don't stand for.

So much this.

The SJWs WANT edgelord bullshit from the right. It makes it so much easier to look not insane while opposing it.

Put out normal, good quality content and their REEing about it makes them look like the batshit whackos they are.

Advertise using "insensitivity readers"?

Or, crazy thought here, just make a really good, innovative, well-written, well-edited, properly play-tested, professionally produced, interesting game. You know, a game that stands on its own without needing to trumpet its politics one way or the other.

Quote from: Festus on March 16, 2023, 02:09:03 PM
Advertise using "insensitivity readers"?

Or, crazy thought here, just make a really good, innovative, well-written, well-edited, properly play-tested, professionally produced, interesting game. You know, a game that stands on its own without needing to trumpet its politics one way or the other.

Exactly!

In a way this feels like "thee who hunts monsters risks becoming a monster" territory.

The SJWs hate and try to do provocative things for outrage marketing.

This is the same damned thing just directed back the other way.

Hate is great at tearing down, it really sucks for building. Hate polarizes and drives many normal people away, because normal people don't enjoy hating perpetually and continually; its exhausting.

Love what you're creating and people will feel that and respond to it... and the SJW's who wish only to destroy will hate it naturally.

Quote from: Chris24601 on March 16, 2023, 10:52:54 AM

Quote from: migo on March 16, 2023, 10:24:41 AM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 15, 2023, 10:10:13 PM
You're set, the blue haired landwhales will Reeeeeeeeeeeeee.

Re-envision hags from being wiry to horrendously fat, and instead of doing green, annis and night, order them according to hair colour. And then place them on the cover as monsters for the heroes to fight.

Or embrace the classic elements of monsters so as to create a timeless product that will remain relevant after the landwhales have clotshotted themselves into oblivion.

Look at Hogwarts Legacy and how the left did everything they could to sell the game.  Look at TSR and how it used the Satanic Panic to sell their games.  I get that a lot of people are scared, like you, but I'd rather have a game with fun in it than something written to D&D's standards, which frankly are horrible.  D&D is supposed to be 12 and up, in reality its at an 8 and up and moving down to 6 and up very soon.  Putting out adult games of D&D will sell quite well.

Quote from: Chris24601 on March 16, 2023, 02:15:22 PM


This is the same damned thing just directed back the other way.

That was GamerGate, and it brought Gawker Media to their knees. Using left wing tactics against the left wing absolutely works. Because left wing tactics work. If they didn't, they wouldn't use them.

Make a game that is good, and specifically does things they don't like, so people shriek and complain about it, and because of that more people are aware of it, check it out (make sure there's a comprehensive free quickstart), and decide it's a neat game and they'll try it out anyway.

This of course depends on having a distribution platform, so for the time being that means not making OBS think it constitutes whatever they feel 'hostile marketing' is.

My current strategy with DtwenD is to boast that it's the next D&D killer on whatever forums or chat I'm currently on. It draws someone's attention, at least, and I can respond to it in short order.

Hulk Hogan bought Gawker to their knees.

How many games make things for explicitly GG sensibilities specifically? Beyond Steam trash, nearly nothing.
How many games are made explicitly because of SJW sensibilities? More then 2016.

Edgelording only makes cultural progress when the larger culture allows it.

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on March 16, 2023, 03:23:42 PM
Hulk Hogan bought Gawker to their knees.

Hulk Hogan delivered the coup de grace.

GG brought Gawker's advertising revenue down to nearly nothing, which meant their war chest was depleted and they couldn't handle the damages they were forced to pay.

Quote from: migo on March 16, 2023, 03:33:11 PM
GG brought Gawker's advertising revenue down to nearly nothing, which meant their war chest was depleted and they couldn't handle the damages they were forced to pay.

How. How did saucy clickbait articles reduce revenue?
Thinking GG did something to gawker is like thinking woodstock ended vietnam. Or thank Punk ended the War on Drugs.

It's such a self-serving attitude. I also listed a bunch of other arguments beyond "woah a  tabloid journalist website went out of buisness! Must be me!"

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on March 16, 2023, 03:39:53 PM

Quote from: migo on March 16, 2023, 03:33:11 PM
GG brought Gawker's advertising revenue down to nearly nothing, which meant their war chest was depleted and they couldn't handle the damages they were forced to pay.

How. How did saucy clickbait articles reduce revenue?
Thinking GG did something to gawker is like thinking woodstock ended vietnam. Or thank Punk ended the War on Drugs.

It's such a self-serving attitude. I also listed a bunch of other arguments beyond "woah a  tabloid journalist website went out of buisness! Must be me!"

It wasn't clickbait articles. It was going after advertisers. After Gawker went bankrupt they specifically called out GamerGate with a fuck you. They knew who was responsible for cutting their income. Gawker was the first platform that was hit hard with demonetization.

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on March 16, 2023, 03:23:42 PMEdgelording only makes cultural progress when the larger culture allows it.

Pretty much. The whole "Parental Advisory Explicit Lyrics" thing worked because religious conservatism was in the decline in the 90s when that whole thing started out. But having quasi-religious moral take on racism, gender BS and LGBT stuff has been in ascendancy for decades and is the cultural norm now. If you go against that you're only gonna look like an asshole at best, or an outright bigot at worst, which not even most on the anti-SJW side like.

I do think that GG was instrumental in bringing Gawker down, though, but not by stupidly copying SJW tactics just for the sake of copying them, but by dragging them into the light and exposing them for what they were. Before GG nobody even knew WTF "SJWs" were, and Intersectional Feminism was unknown outside of leftist circles (and even there I only became aware of it like two years before GG happened despite frequenting Left-Anarchist/Socialist pages before that). GG exposed all that and helped set things on track. But without Hulk Hogan and Peter Thiel's money Gawker would still be around.

*Edit* Visonstorm already posted what I said.  Nevermind

Quote from: VisionStorm on March 16, 2023, 03:45:14 PM

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on March 16, 2023, 03:23:42 PMEdgelording only makes cultural progress when the larger culture allows it.

Pretty much. The whole "Parental Advisory Explicit Lyrics" thing worked because religious conservatism was in the decline in the 90s when that whole thing started out. But having quasi-religious moral take on racism, gender BS and LGBT stuff has been in ascendancy for decades and is the cultural norm now. If you go against that you're only gonna look like an asshole at best, or an outright bigot at worst, which not even most on the anti-SJW side like.

I do think that GG was instrumental in bringing Gawker down, though, but not by stupidly copying SJW tactics just for the sake of copying them, but by dragging them into the light and exposing them for what they were. Before GG nobody even knew WTF "SJWs" were, and Intersectional Feminism was unknown outside of leftist circles (and even there I only became aware of it like two years before GG happened despite frequenting Left-Anarchist/Socialist pages before that). GG exposed all that and helped set things on track. But without Hulk Hogan and Peter Thiel's money Gawker would still be around.

When you look at woke, you look are purse puppying and writing being written down to a 6 year old level.  Putting in content to state you are specifically NOT doing that does not mean you are racist, it means the content is written for humans to enjoy and the content is not written for Zombies in the woke cult who don't buy rpg content in the first place.

Quote from: honeydipperdavid on March 16, 2023, 02:58:10 PM

Quote from: Chris24601 on March 16, 2023, 10:52:54 AM

Quote from: migo on March 16, 2023, 10:24:41 AM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 15, 2023, 10:10:13 PM
You're set, the blue haired landwhales will Reeeeeeeeeeeeee.

Re-envision hags from being wiry to horrendously fat, and instead of doing green, annis and night, order them according to hair colour. And then place them on the cover as monsters for the heroes to fight.

Or embrace the classic elements of monsters so as to create a timeless product that will remain relevant after the landwhales have clotshotted themselves into oblivion.

Look at Hogwarts Legacy and how the left did everything they could to sell the game.  Look at TSR and how it used the Satanic Panic to sell their games.  I get that a lot of people are scared, like you, but I'd rather have a game with fun in it than something written to D&D's standards, which frankly are horrible.  D&D is supposed to be 12 and up, in reality its at an 8 and up and moving down to 6 and up very soon.  Putting out adult games of D&D will sell quite well.

Hogwarts Legacy didn't succeed by being Edgelordy. It succeeded by being a well-crafted game with a good story that would have fit right in to any point of pre-Woke culture. The same with Top Gun Maverick; no anti-woke edgelording... just a solid well-crafted story with heroes to root for and gorgeous non-CGI cinematography.

Its not fear that has me objecting... its that I think the idea of going Edgelord in the opposite direction is stupid and counterproductive and its not going to attract anyone but other fringe edgelords.

I wasn't Edgelording in the 90's when it was cool. I'm certainly not doing it now as some desperate gasp for attention. I have my own work on a Superversive* setting that is every bit as toxic to the Woke but without the pretentious "look at me" wankery.

So, yes, enjoy your pretentious "now with extra offensive language and demonic imagery from the 80-90s" and "more lines on pages depicting breasts with twice the cup size" being sold off of websites which need NSFW disclaimers and then wonder why no one takes you or your product seriously.

* Superversive means having fun with your friends playing in a world where heroes are heroic, where people are basically good (and those that are not are villains you can defeat), where courage, honor and virtue matter, where true love and beauty are eternal, hope is real and, even though it may struggle and stumble, good can triumph in the end. Whether these things are really true or not... they are worth believing in and, God willing, the love I have for the setting and its themes of timeless virtue will carry over into my finished product and that will in turn draw people to it.

Quote from: honeydipperdavid on March 16, 2023, 02:58:10 PM
When you look at woke, you look are purse puppying and writing being written down to a 6 year old level.  Putting in content to state you are specifically NOT doing that does not mean you are racist, it means the content is written for humans to enjoy and the content is not written for Zombies in the woke cult who don't buy rpg content in the first place.

Again, Hogwarts Legacy and Top Gun Maverick didn't need "Artist Statements" declaring themselves anti-woke. Good stories and content are anti-woke by definition and need no statements to say so.