Quote from: honeydipperdavid on March 16, 2023, 09:24:49 PMListing your content as being fun and enhanced aluding to the fact your content is normie and not woke will sell and sell quite well.

Except that none of the evidence bears this out and none of the other stuff that you mention means that "and therefore we have to make our stuff explicitly anti-woke and then it will sell (somehow)".

If being not woke was such a hot selling point on its own—specially in the TTRPG industry—then woke games wouldn't sell better than ones from openly anti-woke authors, and people wouldn't be trying to haunt and defame any designer that steps out of line and get their crowdsourced stuff cancelled. Yet that's precisely what happens, none of the anti-woke authors are actually making it big, other than maybe Pundit, and he ain't exactly huge. Plus none of his stuff is explicitly anti-woke or marketed as such, and he only uses anti-wokeness as outrage advertising in his own channel, but not his books.

The only people that have used anti-wokeness in their marketing with any significant success have been ComicsGate, and that's a completely different industry, plus none of the really big ones uses politics in their actual products. The only exception being Trump's Space Force, and that book was extremely niche and not part of the main CC crowd.

I eagerly await your next attempt to push the same points, though. 

Make a game that has its own merits.

Quote from: VisionStorm on March 16, 2023, 10:02:03 PM

Quote from: honeydipperdavid on March 16, 2023, 09:24:49 PMListing your content as being fun and enhanced aluding to the fact your content is normie and not woke will sell and sell quite well.

Except that none of the evidence bears this out and none of the other stuff that you mention means that "and therefore we have to make our stuff explicitly anti-woke and then it will sell (somehow)".

If being not woke was such a hot selling point on its own—specially in the TTRPG industry—then woke games wouldn't sell better than ones from openly anti-woke authors, and people wouldn't be trying to haunt and defame any designer that steps out of line and get their crowdsourced stuff cancelled. Yet that's precisely what happens, none of the anti-woke authors are actually making it big, other than maybe Pundit, and he ain't exactly huge. Plus none of his stuff is explicitly anti-woke or marketed as such, and he only uses anti-wokeness as outrage advertising in his own channel, but not his books.

The only people that have used anti-wokeness in their marketing with any significant success have been ComicsGate, and that's a completely different industry, plus none of the really big ones uses politics in their actual products. The only exception being Trump's Space Force, and that book was extremely niche and not part of the main CC crowd.

I eagerly await your next attempt to push the same points, though. 

Here why don't you steel man my point and show how its wrong?  I'm talking culturally and financially.  Now if you want to look at trends, the first to get woke was video games then the cancer spread to the media and table top had elements of it present but it didn't take of at D&D fully till the BLM Murder riots of 2020 that murder 25 people and did $2B damage to the inner cities.  At that point, that was when the leftards at WotC took control, put up their virtue signal about how evil Gary and content was for DM's guild.  TT was lagging from being absorbed.

Taking a look at it now, woke is failing left and right. Woke Video game companies are shutting down studios, look at Bioware shutting down its woke Canadian studio.  Look at Embracer CEO stating he has to do a different direction for Saint's Row and saying a lot of fans "not happy with the new direction of the game".  Look at EA chief creative officer Patrick Söderlund for Battlefield V either buy it or don't, well they didn't and he's gone.  Look at Hogwarts, the left sold it for free and their boycott failed.  Those video game companies that put wokeness in are failing and ESG funding is going dead.  The DIE departments are being cleared out in the silicon valley layoffs because they build nothing, they slow production, they spread nothing by hatred and discontent and the ESG funding that made the viable is going away very very quickly.  The funding kept failing video game studios afloat but now that the economy is going to shit, there is no funding.  Video Games are going back to profitable and fun, the edutainment is being removed.  Video Games were the first to get the woke cancer and they are the first moving away from it to maintain profitability.  Media was being pushed hard woke by Disney and Disney is losing money on wokeness, Solo and Antman lost money.  Disney is trying everything possible to put woke politics and not go bankrupt and it isn't working out well for them.  Tabletop is the next area to lose the wokeness.  The content D&D keeps putting out is not being received well at all.  TT will most likely follow the trend and be one of the last refuges to lose the woke cancer because it has the cheapest input cost compared to video games and media.  No one is going to spend $50 on a woke book to virtue signal when hamburger costs $10/lb.  They will only buy content that benefits their game and most of D&D content for the last 4 years has been as useful as tits on a bulls.

Hmm. This all begs the question: What's the best way to piss off the blue-haired woke crowd without sabotaging your product? You know - keep it based, but also retail-friendly.

Quote from: honeydipperdavid on March 16, 2023, 09:24:49 PMListing your content as being fun and enhanced aluding to the fact your content is normie and not woke will sell and sell quite well.

Market your game as fun. Don't try to win me over on your politics. Even if I agree with them, I'm just going to be annoyed.

People aren't just sick of "woke". They're sick of it all. If you try to sell me your game based on your politics or your refutation of the other guy's politics, or whatever, just count me out. It's not that I'm apolitical. I'm not. Not even remotely. But I'm so fucking sick to fucking death of "everything is politics". I don't wanna think about if I'm disrespecting insidious cultures somehow, or having to roll for the size of my barbarian queen's tits while she gets -2 int. This is a hobby for me. It's escapism. It's to decompress and spend time with friends and have fun.

I just want to kill me some damned orcs.

Quote from: FF_Ninja on March 16, 2023, 10:39:20 PM
Hmm. This all begs the question: What's the best way to piss off the blue-haired woke crowd without sabotaging your product? You know - keep it based, but also retail-friendly.

Easy, state how a sticker that says: "Now with 10% more demons" is going to not be retail friendly when Barnes and Noble has books in the young adults section where they have pictures and instructions on how young males showing males how to engage in anal sex is not going to be placed in a retail store?  Believe it not, you can use an upset leftards for marketing, its been done plenty of times.  Hell look at how D&D markets when its on leftard social media it plays up the racism in the hiring of the writers and how they banned whites from writing but on the books themselves for the vast majority of customers who are normies, they don't realize there is a culture war they just know movies sucks and D&D is getting bad they don't list any of the woke shit on the book cover or back to prevent their book from getting passed over.

Gender Queer
https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/gender-queer-maia-kobabe/1129752894?ean=9781549304002

Can you tell me how a book with a sticker stating "Now with 10% more Demons" are going to bother you politically, I'm all ears man.  Or if you released a module called "Orcs Must Die" and put a sticker on it "No insensitivity writers were hurt in the making of this product" is going to bother you politically? 

I'm listing out the trends.  Thanks to economic collapse, the money for ESG is gone, and the people paying for this shit to be made, don't have the money to do it.  Books are having tog return to merit.  So why not show the book is based on merit and fun.  People want fun content, they don't want Battlefield V, Saints Row or Van Richtovens Guide to crap.

Quote from: Bruwulf on March 16, 2023, 10:55:15 PM

Quote from: honeydipperdavid on March 16, 2023, 09:24:49 PMListing your content as being fun and enhanced aluding to the fact your content is normie and not woke will sell and sell quite well.

Market your game as fun. Don't try to win me over on your politics. Even if I agree with them, I'm just going to be annoyed.

People aren't just sick of "woke". They're sick of it all. If you try to sell me your game based on your politics or your refutation of the other guy's politics, or whatever, just count me out. It's not that I'm apolitical. I'm not. Not even remotely. But I'm so fucking sick to fucking death of "everything is politics". I don't wanna think about if I'm disrespecting insidious cultures somehow, or having to roll for the size of my barbarian queen's tits while she gets -2 int. This is a hobby for me. It's escapism. It's to decompress and spend time with friends and have fun.

I just want to kill me some damned orcs.

Greetings!

What are you drinking tonight, Bruwulf? *Laughing* That's the second commentary you have made tonight that has me cracking up! You must be great at parties! (I mean that as a complement). "Disrespecting insidious cultures!" Ahh, yeah. Fucking great!

Yeah, the whole politics in everything gets so tiresome. It makes me often roll my eyes in frustration. Sometimes, I feel like screaming at these people, in the books, like, dude, can't you just fucking stop? STOP. I wonder if these people actually listen to themselves as they go off on yet another 'teaching moment" so smugly lecturing the reader on how super-duper special some culture is, and how sensitive everyone must be talking about them or interacting *in the game* with whatever culture.

The real mind boggling moment is to realize that most of the cultures talked about--in the game books--are *fictitious*

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: honeydipperdavid on March 16, 2023, 10:59:06 PM

Quote from: FF_Ninja on March 16, 2023, 10:39:20 PM
Hmm. This all begs the question: What's the best way to piss off the blue-haired woke crowd without sabotaging your product? You know - keep it based, but also retail-friendly.

Easy, state how a sticker that says: "Now with 10% more demons" is going to not be retail friendly when Barnes and Noble has books in the young adults section where they have pictures and instructions on how young males showing males how to engage in anal sex is not going to be placed in a retail store?  Believe it not, you can use an upset leftards for marketing, its been done plenty of times.  Hell look at how D&D markets when its on leftard social media it plays up the racism in the hiring of the writers and how they banned whites from writing but on the books themselves for the vast majority of customers who are normies, they don't realize there is a culture war they just know movies sucks and D&D is getting bad they don't list any of the woke shit on the book cover or back to prevent their book from getting passed over.

Gender Queer
https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/gender-queer-maia-kobabe/1129752894?ean=9781549304002

Can you tell me how a book with a sticker stating "Now with 10% more Demons" are going to bother you politically, I'm all ears man.  Or if you released a module called "Orcs Must Die" and put a sticker on it "No insensitivity writers were hurt in the making of this product" is going to bother you politically? 

I'm listing out the trends.  Thanks to economic collapse, the money for ESG is gone, and the people paying for this shit to be made, don't have the money to do it.  Books are having tog return to merit.  So why not show the book is based on merit and fun.  People want fun content, they don't want Battlefield V, Saints Row or Van Richtovens Guide to crap.

Greetings!

Returning to MERIT. That's right, Honeydipperdavid. As the economy gets jacked even more, more of the Libtards are going to be unemployed, and starving. They will be lucky to be eating Macdonald's Hash Browns. Companies are also likely to get far more mean-spirited and hard-nosed with how they invest their resources, what kinds of people they hire, and what kinds of product gets the greenlight.

I'm looking forward to more REEEing from sobbing Libtards on TikTok.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: Bruwulf on March 16, 2023, 10:55:15 PM

Quote from: honeydipperdavid on March 16, 2023, 09:24:49 PMListing your content as being fun and enhanced aluding to the fact your content is normie and not woke will sell and sell quite well.

Market your game as fun. Don't try to win me over on your politics. Even if I agree with them, I'm just going to be annoyed.

People aren't just sick of "woke". They're sick of it all. If you try to sell me your game based on your politics or your refutation of the other guy's politics, or whatever, just count me out. It's not that I'm apolitical. I'm not. Not even remotely. But I'm so fucking sick to fucking death of "everything is politics". I don't wanna think about if I'm disrespecting insidious cultures somehow, or having to roll for the size of my barbarian queen's tits while she gets -2 int. This is a hobby for me. It's escapism. It's to decompress and spend time with friends and have fun.

I just want to kill me some damned orcs.

This right here, make a fun game, market it as fun, make something you yourself want to play (chances are there's other people that want to play it too).

It's not as if you HAVE to do ANYTHING to piss the woketards, just look at Hogwarts Legacy, the game is woke as fuck, it takes place BEFORE the HP books, yet it's filled with "British" people that look like they come from current year London, it has a transgender bartender, and yet the woketards hate it.

So, if you're making such a game that putting a sexy woman in chainmail bikini and a strong dude in loincloth on the cover fits do so (if that's what you want), write in proper English, put always evil Orcs (or whatever) and racial modifiers.

Now your game is sexist, transphobic, racist and exclusionary.

If you didn't notice I just described D&D from back in the day with a different cover.

I'll repeat myself: You don't really NEED to do anything to piss the Sparkle Troll Brigade, hell you can even try to make something to please them and they'll come after you ANYWAY!

Make the game you want to play, make it fun, if possible unique in some way, and market it as "now 100% more fun!"

Quote from: Bruwulf on March 16, 2023, 10:55:15 PM

Quote from: honeydipperdavid on March 16, 2023, 09:24:49 PMListing your content as being fun and enhanced aluding to the fact your content is normie and not woke will sell and sell quite well.

Market your game as fun. Don't try to win me over on your politics. Even if I agree with them, I'm just going to be annoyed.

People aren't just sick of "woke". They're sick of it all. If you try to sell me your game based on your politics or your refutation of the other guy's politics, or whatever, just count me out. It's not that I'm apolitical. I'm not. Not even remotely. But I'm so fucking sick to fucking death of "everything is politics". I don't wanna think about if I'm disrespecting insidious cultures somehow, or having to roll for the size of my barbarian queen's tits while she gets -2 int. This is a hobby for me. It's escapism. It's to decompress and spend time with friends and have fun.

I just want to kill me some damned orcs.

Hear, freaking hear!

People want to play games and watch movies to ESCAPE from real life for a bit. The goal of the woke is to make everything (and I do mean EVERYTHING) political... and here comes hippydippydoc wanting to ensure that no game is an escape... it must be political; right or left.

Congratulations honeydipped... you're giving the woketards exactly the war they want to fight you on.

Quote from: Chris24601 on March 16, 2023, 11:25:50 PM

Quote from: Bruwulf on March 16, 2023, 10:55:15 PM

Quote from: honeydipperdavid on March 16, 2023, 09:24:49 PMListing your content as being fun and enhanced aluding to the fact your content is normie and not woke will sell and sell quite well.

Market your game as fun. Don't try to win me over on your politics. Even if I agree with them, I'm just going to be annoyed.

People aren't just sick of "woke". They're sick of it all. If you try to sell me your game based on your politics or your refutation of the other guy's politics, or whatever, just count me out. It's not that I'm apolitical. I'm not. Not even remotely. But I'm so fucking sick to fucking death of "everything is politics". I don't wanna think about if I'm disrespecting insidious cultures somehow, or having to roll for the size of my barbarian queen's tits while she gets -2 int. This is a hobby for me. It's escapism. It's to decompress and spend time with friends and have fun.

I just want to kill me some damned orcs.

Hear, freaking hear!

People want to play games and watch movies to ESCAPE from real life for a bit. The goal of the woke is to make everything (and I do mean EVERYTHING) political... and here comes hippydippydoc wanting to ensure that no game is an escape... it must be political; right or left.

Congratulations honeydipped... you're giving the woketards exactly the war they want to fight you on.

OK, so tell me how a sticker that says "Now with 10% more Demons" or a module called "Orcs Must Die" or a sticker stating "No insensitivity readers were hurt in the making of this module" is going to cost you sales.  It shows the content is fun, non-woke and normie.  It's what DM's wnat for content and players do as well.  The stickiness of a new D&D player is less than 6 sessions and they quit, they quit because D&D modules are poorly written edutainment and are not written to be fun.

Quote from: honeydipperdavid on March 16, 2023, 11:48:24 PM

Quote from: Chris24601 on March 16, 2023, 11:25:50 PM

Quote from: Bruwulf on March 16, 2023, 10:55:15 PM

Quote from: honeydipperdavid on March 16, 2023, 09:24:49 PMListing your content as being fun and enhanced aluding to the fact your content is normie and not woke will sell and sell quite well.

Market your game as fun. Don't try to win me over on your politics. Even if I agree with them, I'm just going to be annoyed.

People aren't just sick of "woke". They're sick of it all. If you try to sell me your game based on your politics or your refutation of the other guy's politics, or whatever, just count me out. It's not that I'm apolitical. I'm not. Not even remotely. But I'm so fucking sick to fucking death of "everything is politics". I don't wanna think about if I'm disrespecting insidious cultures somehow, or having to roll for the size of my barbarian queen's tits while she gets -2 int. This is a hobby for me. It's escapism. It's to decompress and spend time with friends and have fun.

I just want to kill me some damned orcs.

Hear, freaking hear!

People want to play games and watch movies to ESCAPE from real life for a bit. The goal of the woke is to make everything (and I do mean EVERYTHING) political... and here comes hippydippydoc wanting to ensure that no game is an escape... it must be political; right or left.

Congratulations honeydipped... you're giving the woketards exactly the war they want to fight you on.

OK, so tell me how a sticker that says "Now with 10% more Demons" or a module called "Orcs Must Die" or a sticker stating "No insensitivity readers were hurt in the making of this module" is going to cost you sales.  It shows the content is fun, non-woke and normie.  It's what DM's wnat for content and players do as well.  The stickiness of a new D&D player is less than 6 sessions and they quit, they quit because D&D modules are poorly written edutainment and are not written to be fun.

Greetings!

I like "Orcs Must Die!" *Laughing* That would be a great title or advertising banner!

Beyond that, as I mentioned earlier, I don't see the problem. Market some games in a conventional manner, and market some games, books, or modules, with presenting a more "edgy" flair. Who cares if the Libtards are offended and Reeing? And as far as "Tactics" go, it can be advantageous to be ruthless and bold. Libtards go out of their way to make bold statements and make a big splash. It does--and has--been quite successful, at least sometimes. What's with the crying about "Wel, that's what the Libtards do!" AND? So what. It has been successful, and it makes MONEY. Success, money, fame, translates into *power* and *influence*. To some extent, gaining power and influence is critical to WINNING.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Some of y'all are just living in fantasy land. It's going to be interesting to see how you're feeling in a couple of years when the liberals still aren't starving, Disney still isn't bankrupt, and WotC D&D is still outselling everything else. 

I was reading some of my old Savage Sword of Conan issues from the 70s earlier today. Loved every second of it. Doesn't mean I have to be delusional about the times we live in.

Quote from: Festus on March 17, 2023, 12:05:10 AM
Some of y'all are just living in fantasy land. It's going to be interesting to see how you're feeling in a couple of years when the liberals still aren't starving, Disney still isn't bankrupt, and WotC D&D is still outselling everything else. 

I was reading some of my old Savage Sword of Conan issues from the 70s earlier today. Loved every second of it. Doesn't mean I have to be delusional about the times we live in.

Disney has over $45B in debt, it has lost money on Buzz Lightyear (a Pixar film)

https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/DIS/disney/long-term-debt

As to movies in 2022, very woke, and generally not performing well.  Some of the lowlights Turning Red $175M budget and a $20M box office, Lightyear $200M budget and a $226M box office, Pinocchio $150M budget and no box office because it was so bad it went to Disney+, and then Strange World $180M budget and $74M box office.

Then you have The Proud Family: Louder and Prouder where the level of wokeness is to the level that it could kill Xindi X Khandi if he was exposed to more than 10 minutes of it, everyone else its 5 minutes.  The bad PR and response from parents turned the show into a PR nightmare, then having the show runner talking about she could do whatever she wanted and no one stopped her, didn't help.

Disney has high debt and its movies are running into issues because they went very woke and parents won't take their kids to groomer films.  What is keeping Disney alive is the parks, and it lost some of it's tax benefits in Florida. And Universal Studios offers a much better offering with Harry Potter.  And then we have Disney trying to remove Splash Mountain and Disney fans organizing protests at the park to stop them is becoming a PR Nightmare.

Disney almost died in the 70's and 80's and lived off its parks because a good bit of its movie releases (Fox and Hound, Black Hole) were financial failures.  It's overextended its credit and it can't write a good Marvel or Star Wars movie to save its financial life now.  Even when Disney tries to write non-woke content that is good (Andor), Disney has pissed of the fan base they won't watch good content that Disney puts out for Star Wars now.  We have Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny coming to leave even a fouler taste in the fans mouth.  You can't spread that amount of feces at the fans expect them to come back for more.

With the amount of debt, the bad relations with fans of the parks, bad relations with parents no longer looking at Disney films as safe for families and Disney+ not doing well, and then economic calamity, I would not bet on Disney surviving the Decade.  Plenty of big companies come and go.  The parks has always saved Disney's bacon and Universal is cheaper and gives  a better experience than Disney.  I've been shorting DISN and I'm doing ok and haven't lost money yet on it, I'm sure I'll get caught eventually but for the most part Disney has a negative slope the last two years.  I did that as soon as I saw how bad Marvel and Star Wars was and the fan hatred of them.

Quote from: SHARK on March 16, 2023, 11:58:45 PM
I like "Orcs Must Die!" *Laughing* That would be a great title or advertising banner!

Just FYI, "Orcs Must Die" is the name of a video game franchise about, you guessed it, killing orcs in droves.