No, seriously. It's on the Dave Arneson's Blackmoor Facebook page and a few other places.
Check this shit out.
http://blackmoormystara.blogspot.no/2015/05/blackmoor-to-be-revived-by-vampire.html
Let the grograge commence...
It's "official" in the same way the Dune prequels are "official"; nothing to do with the original creator
Cultural appropriation. ;)
Quote from: One Horse Town;831541Cultural appropriation. ;)
:D OK, that made me lol.
Even when he was alive, I don't think the published Blackmoor had much relation to the actual Blackmoor game by DA. The TSR stuff was forced into Mystara, and then the 3.x stuff was well, 3.x and much of it awfully generic.
It's like a lot of the later stuff (and by that I mean 1983+) with EGG's name on it - it's actually someone else's vision of things, maybe working from notes, but probably not even that.
Yeah, this is just a license product, with a name attached to it. That said, I'm kinda looking forward to it.
What ever happened with his zombie rpg?
So this should be out in what? 3 years?
QuoteRPGG
None other than Mark Rein•Hagen, who still has a few unfulfilled Kickstarters he needs to take care of, alledgedly has expressed interest in putting out new material for the venerable setting. Notable former White Wolf and current Onyx Path Publishing designer C. A. Suleiman also seems to be involved.
Referring to the below. Among other things.
QuoteIncompetent shyster Mark Rein-Hagen partners with largely uncommunicative Game Salute for a perfect storm of delays. Game funded 11/21/2012, and un-shipped as of May 2014.
A brief sampling of Rein-Hagen claims:
12/3/2012: "...don't worry, we will totally transparent in every way. ... We have everything ready to go on our end, we just need final pricing."
7/7/2013: "Hi everyone, Democracy is finally done and will be shipping any day now from China."
10/23/2013: "We just signed a deal with Game Salute to fulfill and distribute Democracy: Majority Rules. As soon as the manufacturer in China can get off their... can deliver the product (they are now promising a week now) they will almost immediately ship it out."
"Game Salute has deep relationships with many manufacturers, distrubutors, vendors and shippers, so I am sure that at this point, things are going to go well. Have no fears, this product will be delivered, and soon."
11/1/2013: "We are preparing to ship the games any day now, we are just trying to coordinate with other game shipments to Game Salute. I am trying to get them shipped in the next couple of days."
"You are for sure getting your games for xmas."
1/29/2014: "I was going to post a full update today but I decided I needed yet another night to think about my words and rarefy them to a unique level of profound sublimity wildly unfamiliar to my creative Loki. However, you first need to know – my splendiferous, so uncherubic crazies – that the game shipment is nearly there."
"I'd never leave a gamer and his wad stranded, ever. Never have, never will. Democracy is on its way.
So calm the f**k down. Subside. Please please plese"
2/3/2014: "Speaking of which, though I did not realize it, I did get a message regarding the shipment, complete with a manifest. It is on route and nearly in the USA."
2/26/2014: "You will be happy to know that the Democracy Games have arrived at Game Salute and we will be sending them out soon. I've been frantically fixing a horrible mistake I found on the Secret Agenda cards after one last playtest, but we reformatted them and that's fixed now. Game Salute is going to print them for us locally since I live so far away. I am shipping off some other Add-On materials tomorrow to them."
"You can expect another update in a day or two.
Democracy will be in your hands soon."
Bonus Rein-Hagen claim to a Danish game con that he attended: "You will be able to buy Democracy in a couple of weeks."
Exciting new non-developments!
Game Salute to backer Matthew Titelbaum today:
"We're handling fulfillment for Democracy: Majority Rules but we did not run the campaign nor handle the manufacturing. We're awaiting the backer info and funds to process outgoing shipments from Mark, so we'll defer to him commenting on this matter. We're happy to process those shipments once we have all the info and funds we need to send them."
So... Mark hasn't paid them either. Totally predictable.
Frankly, I'm shocked that he hasn't taken the 30k he netted from the I Am Zombie campaign to send out Democracy in true ponzi-scheme fashion. Perhaps he's already spent that money as well?
And even more non-update updates...
6/17/2014: "What we CAN do, is offer to completely DROP the animal meeples and entirely refund these add-on purchases (via Paypal or Check) and ship out ALL the games without them immediately. However, that would mean no one would get animal meeples and thus everyone would have to agree to this. If a single person insists on their meeples, we'll have to wait."
6/26/2014: Regarding meeple production "We did however, pay for airmail shipping so they should be in gamesalutes hands in less than a month, at which point we'll ship!"
7/25/2014: "With the meeples and cloth bags in production and all being well on that front, i'm writing you with good news; I'm finally able to offer you one of the things you've been understandably wanting for a long time. I've convinced Mark to do an ask-me-anything on Reddit." (Note: this went exactly as you'd expect, with Mark asserting that "rivals" in the game design community sabotaged the AMA)
7/31/2014: "I've been sending an amount of requests for a firm shipping date on the Animal Meeples that could qualify as spam, but as of yet I do not have a reply....The last I heard from them, just two days ago, was that production is coming along fine for them, but they again did not provide an ETA."
9/5/2014: "In the bad department, we're not actually hearing anything from the meeple manufacturer despite the deadline they provided us having passed. I'm aware of how infuriating this must be to all of our backers, and I assure you this is terribly frustrating to us as well, but even with me sending daily emails (several per day, in fact). They're not currently communicating with us in any way."
9/25/2014: "As mentioned earlier, our manufacturer is not in any way communicating with us despite our meeples supposedly being done and shipped more than a month ago according to the deadline....Having said that, everything is done on our end and we're extremely excited to finally be able to announce that we are shipping....The company we've been using is Panda Game Manufacturing, who has now gone COMPLETELY silent, thus leading to this sad situation. Emails unanswered, deadlines unmet, orders unfulfilled."
10/9/2014: "I am very sorry to tell you that shipping has been delayed slightly because Amazon Payments is not allowing to let me send money to Game Salute. I can send money to other people, Game Salute can receive money from others, but I cannot send money to them.... However with great difficulty I was able to move my own money around, that wire transfer just came in and a wire transfer to Game Salute has been sent."
Mark's creative Loki is more successful at generating excuses than generating games at this point.
Shipped finally 12/12/14
This should probably be updated as now, 2 years later, games are being delivered to backers. Certain pledge elements are missing and un-mentioned, and there are some questions of rules clarity, but the game certainly, finally, exists.
5/15/15 and still not fully fulfilled.
I wonder if Blackmoor can be revived. And what do you revive? The DA series from TSR? Dave's own notes? The 3e Blackmoor?
Quote from: One Horse Town;831541Cultural appropriation. ;)
I pee'd out my nose!!!
Quote from: One Horse Town;831541Cultural appropriation. ;)
:D :rotfl:
I'm sorry I have nothing to contribute to this thread, but OHT made my day!
Quote from: Omega;831811So this should be out in what? 3 years?
:rotfl:
That's some Mike Nystul shit right there. He'll fit right in. ;)
Quote from: Spinachcat;831827I wonder if Blackmoor can be revived. And what do you revive? The DA series from TSR? Dave's own notes? The 3e Blackmoor?
Presumably there's a market for something that is marketed as being "true to Arneson", or the way Arneson ran it. But surely that isn't a market that's particularly impressed by Rein-Hagen's name being attached to the project, right? It's an odd, non-obvious mix. Could work, though, if he actually puts something out on time and doesn't skark it. If it's old-school/5e compatible, it'll sell.
Alternatively, what if they do it as Rein/Hagen's reinterpretation - not just the setting, but the mechanics? Appeals to a whole different market, I guess.
I have some fond memories of running the DA stuff yeeaaaars ago but I'd have to look at it again to really remember what the good parts were.
Quote from: VectorSigma;831914Alternatively, what if they do it as Rein/Hagen's reinterpretation - not just the setting, but the mechanics? Appeals to a whole different market, I guess.
Or appeals to no market at all.
All this assumes Rein doesnt end up in jail for fraud at some point. Hes got at least two KS games that are
years of lies and stalling.
Quote from: Spinachcat;831827I wonder if Blackmoor can be revived. And what do you revive? The DA series from TSR? Dave's own notes? The 3e Blackmoor?
Sure. Something with some legitimacy (i.e. ties to DA's former creative partners, use of his unpublished notes) would be welcome. Reinhagen? Not the man, and the Georgian mountain air has long since enfeebled what's left of his brain.
I would no more entrust old-school D&D or campaigns thereof to Mark Reign-Hagen than I would entrust Greyhawk to Rebecca Borgstrom.
And, as asked elsewhere, what of Blackmoor is there to "revive"? Temple of the Frog from Supplement: II Blackmoor? DA1 and DA2, for Expert D&D?
I know people who gamed with Arneson while he was living here in Central FL; his DMing and prep were described as "sketchy", although folks said once things were going he was fairly engaged, but no-one ever told me about great things from Blackmoor that he ran.
I only got to play with Dave Arneson once at a convention and it was awesome fun. Blackmoor was strange, definitely a weird take on the basics of the fantasy genre. I had a great time, but Blackmoor itself did not seem to have a distinctive voice like Dark Sun or Ravenloft.
However, I personally found Blackmoor far more interesting than Greyhawk or Forgotten Realms, but that's because I love blending D&D with Gamma World.
As for Haagen Dazs, who knows? His cultural influence on RPGs and modern Vampire IPs is extremely strong. Maybe he can roll the dice again and create something memorable.
Or not.
Quote from: Spinachcat;831936As for Haagen Dazs, who knows? His cultural influence on RPGs and modern Vampire IPs is extremely strong. Maybe he can roll the dice again and create something memorable.
Maybe he can roll the dice and rob people again.
Quote from: Omega;831920Or appeals to no market at all.
All this assumes Rein doesnt end up in jail for fraud at some point. Hes got at least two KS games that are years of lies and stalling.
Doesn't he live in Eastern Europe now (Georgia?). I have to think cross-border lawsuits are going to be fascinatingly hard, as would extradition for fraud (mostly due to the expense and the fairly small amount at stake).
Quote from: Spinachcat;831936I only got to play with Dave Arneson once at a convention and it was awesome fun. Blackmoor was strange, definitely a weird take on the basics of the fantasy genre. I had a great time, but Blackmoor itself did not seem to have a distinctive voice like Dark Sun or Ravenloft.
I'm sure you know it, but to state the obvious - DA was running Blackmoor in 1972 and it was the very first fantasy campaign. So everything else since is a "take" on it, in a sense. Comparing it to Dark Sun or Ravenloft is like comparing the OSX GUI to Xerox PARC's.
At this point there may be little more to say or publish about Blackmoor, but give some dues here.
Quote from: Spinachcat;831936As for Haagen Dazs, who knows? His cultural influence on RPGs and modern Vampire IPs is extremely strong. Maybe he can roll the dice again and create something memorable.
Or not.
He caught the zeirgeist in the 90s, with the rise of angst and goth cultures. I see no indication he has his fingers anywhere the pulse of modern youth culture though. And that was before the advent of internet culture, so its very unlikely any pen and paper rpg will ever be able to recreate that effect. Its a different world.
In regards to kickstarter, I realy dont understand the irresponsibility of some people.
I'd very much like to do a kickstarter for big deluxe hardback version of Phaserip, but I'd make sure I had the game completely written first. You don't need money for that step of the process.
Random dumb question. Does Kickstarter look at your previous projects and say. OK you failed to deliver on one, and were two years late on another. We're not going to let you start another one. Till you, at least finish the last?
Quote from: Votan;832071Doesn't he live in Eastern Europe now (Georgia?). I have to think cross-border lawsuits are going to be fascinatingly hard, as would extradition for fraud (mostly due to the expense and the fairly small amount at stake).
Seems oft the case unfortunately. Interestingly its the EU backers on the Democracy game that still havent gotten their stuff either at all or fully even now. So lawsuits could come from just about his own back yard if someone got irked enough.
Doubt it will happen though.
Kickstarter is a scammers dream because KS places ALL the onus of getting a refund or legalities on the backer. Want a refund and the designer wont? Too bad. It is in their TOU.
On the wryly ironic note. Hagen's company for the games was called
Make•Believe Games...
Quote from: Ronin;832097Random dumb question. Does Kickstarter look at your previous projects and say. OK you failed to deliver on one, and were two years late on another. We're not going to let you start another one. Till you, at least finish the last?
If they did then Game Salute would never ever get another window.
Take a look at this BGG thread for GS's record so far.
https://www.boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/171113/game-salute-cautionary-tale (https://www.boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/171113/game-salute-cautionary-tale)
This thread is up to 4 pages on KS project issues. Some are though just quirky or oddball. But others are far more serious like the Up Front or Doom that Came to Atlantic City ones.
https://www.boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/160421/controversial-or-fraudulent-kickstarters (https://www.boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/160421/controversial-or-fraudulent-kickstarters)
Ridiculous. But then, Blackmoor was badly mismanaged even in the 3e days. Is it the same people who own the rights now, who have brought Rein-asshole on board?
A random thought. Is it just me or is it that their are WoD, and forgey people starting to glomp onto the the perceived OSR/D&D gravy train?
Quote from: Ronin;832573A random thought. Is it just me or is it that their are WoD, and forgey people starting to glomp onto the the perceived OSR/D&D gravy train?
Tourists. It's been going on for a few years. And, yeah, that's just what it is: perception. Nobody was doing OD&D/AD&D support in the early 2000s outside of a few fans at Dragonsfoot, myself, and the guys at KNKA, then OSRIC hit big and put a finger in WotC's eye and became pretty big (despite
dire warnings of
impending legal doom, any day now(TM) from butthurt publishers who hadn't had the testicular fortitude to try what OSRIC did), and suddenly these people I'd never heard of gathered around like Graham Chapman's followers in
Life of Brian holding up bits and pieces of old games like they were holy relics newly discovered. This is just a continuation of that tourism.
Quote from: Ronin;832573A random thought. Is it just me or is it that their are WoD, and forgey people starting to glomp onto the the perceived OSR/D&D gravy train?
Ron Edwards was on G+ a while back telling everyone they were welcome, since he started the OSR...
A good laugh was shared by all on my Facebook over that one.
Quote from: Ronin;832573A random thought. Is it just me or is it that their are WoD, and forgey people starting to glomp onto the the perceived OSR/D&D gravy train?
Why does that matter? Who care's if the person is a "johnny come lately" or whatever. The key thing will be the end result and the quality of the final work.
Quote from: JRT;832620Why does that matter? Who care's if the person is a "johnny come lately" or whatever. The key thing will be the end result and the quality of the final work.
No, actually, it won't. Because if quality actually mattered then (for example) the Windows phone software would have taken off. On the simple grounds that Windows is everywhere.
Whether or not, the end product is good, if it's missed it's window (no pun intended, but laughter accepted) of opportunity, then most people will not even check, they'll roll their eyes and go back to the previous product they're used to using.
Quote from: Christopher Brady;832801Whether or not, the end product is good, if it's missed it's window (no pun intended, but laughter accepted) of opportunity, then most people will not even check, they'll roll their eyes and go back to the previous product they're used to using.
I'm not sure how concept this applies to people creating OSR products, though. In fact, some of the better products have come from people new to the movement, not necessarily the people who've "never forgotten (A)D&D".
In this case, the popularity will probably depend on the work--and also the perception of people in the market--but the market is fickle and other factors may be involved, so I think trying to predict it based on "who came first" or "loyalty" might not be a good way of gauging that market.
It may be more a matter of riding on Hagen's name and the legacy of Blackmoor.
If it is another Gamma World (IE: In name only) then likely people will shrug and pass if they did not just auto-buy because it has Hagen or Blackmoor on the cover.
If it is good then it will stand on its own merits.
Quote from: Omega;832807It may be more a matter of riding on Hagen's name and the legacy of Blackmoor.
I think its the other way around. Not to diminish his accomplishments with WoD. But his past kickstarter performances have sullied (at least I think) his name. I think it is more hey
Blackmoor! and we got a guy that used to put out good stuff ten years ago to write for it. YMMV
Quote from: Ronin;832884ten years ago
Try "more than twenty years ago." :o
Quote from: The Butcher;832904Try "more than twenty years ago." :o
Quit making me feel old!:p:)
The danger is if it cheapens the brand, or waters-down the definition of just what is going on. That's how trends end up floundering, when everyone claims to be a part of it, and you get a flood of sub-par or even irrelevant work by people desperate to cash-in on the bandwagon.
Perhaps Hagen can partner with Paul Lidberg. :banghead:
Yep, the Renegade Legion creator went even further.
QuoteHe's standing behind the claim that according to Kickstarter's rules, an incomplete copy of the rules in pdf and some maps is enough for him to not have to refund people. He also feels that he doesn't ever have to make progress on the game without calling it a failure and refunding everyone as long as he tells us that he plans to finish it at some undisclosed time in the future. It is now 27 months overdue.
Reaper had to bail out the minis sculptor whome Ludberg didnt finish paying.
What is there? A disease spreading amongst designers?
Hey, guys!
Rafe here, one of the original creators of the Comeback Inn (the forum :) ), now mostly retired from the scene.
Thanks for providing the info about the recent Kickstarters; not gonna lie, this looks pretty terrible, and MRH comes off looking like a total idiot. If he really wants to run a third Kickstarter, now for Blackmoor, I can't imagine where he expects his backers to come from, with this kind of backstory. I for my part can't see myself backing or promoting his operations if this info is indeed a valid summary of his recent business endeavors.
Now, the real deal here is something else, though: If MRH has really found a way to rescue the BM license from copyright hell, then maybe so can others. And that's where things could get really interesting. Like, I probably wouldn't care much for MRH's particular take on Blackmoor, even if it got published without any drama. But I would very much care for Scott Moore's, or my friend Havard's take on Blackmoor, if you know what I mean.
So, I keep my fingers crossed that this is more than MRH testing the waters. If the license is really up on the market again, some really cool things can happen.
Quote from: RPGPundit;833292The danger is if it cheapens the brand, or waters-down the definition of just what is going on. That's how trends end up floundering, when everyone claims to be a part of it, and you get a flood of sub-par or even irrelevant work by people desperate to cash-in on the bandwagon.
à la the great 3/3.5 glut.
I'm remembering more than 25 years ago when MRH and the Wieck siblings where the co-owners (and also founders, if I remember correctly) of White Wolf, which also published Inphobia. They were pretty dismissive of AD&D (which was in its 2nd iteration). I have read an interview where one of the Wieck siblings said AD&D was not a good game to tell stories.
Then in 1995 (or 1996), MRH sold his shares in WW, got off the radar and settle in the East of Europe.
WWP had its own version of cultural revolution and started to published materials for D&D 3 at the acme of OGL.
And now MRH comes with his version Blackmore in a KS, after having badly managed the 2 others KS he has done so far.
I do not want to sound prejudiced but I will pass this one without a shred of regret.
I must add that I have very little knowledge of Blackmore except the things you can get by googling it.
More or less the only thing I know about the setting is that Castle Blackmoor itself and the surrounding town got overrun by orcs in an early game because the players found the dungeon crawling so addictive they didn't put any effort into engaging with the defence of the realm.
If you want to know a bit more about Blackmoor, come check out our board (link in my sig).
It's a thing of beauty - not so much the setting itself, perhaps, because if you take out the 60s references that most modern players don't understand any more, you basically get Privateer Press' Iron Kingdoms. But the community is great, very creative, and very productive for its small size. Plus there are none of the usual OSR vultures there. You don't need to buy our shit to be part of the club. And most of the important BM stuff is free, anyway.:)
Also, whut, a board where I can curse?! Guess that means I will stay around a bit.
The time travel Blackmoor modules were some of my favorites. I backwards adapted them to BX.
Quote from: Ronin;833452à la the great 3/3.5 glut.
Yup.
Blackmoor is dull without the gonzo sci-fi stuff.
Quote from: RPGPundit;833984Blackmoor is dull without the gonzo sci-fi stuff.
Yeah, that's the thing. My big issue with BM, after ten-something years of running games there, is that especially younger gamers don't get the '60s aesthetics and style any more. To them, it's basically the Iron Kingdoms, as I said.
So, we run the Iron Kingdoms instead. :)
Quote from: Le Noir Faineant;833523It's a thing of beauty - not so much the setting itself, perhaps, because if you take out the 60s references that most modern players don't understand any more, you basically get Privateer Press' Iron Kingdoms.
Tell us about the 60s references!
Also, does your BM community have documentation (emails, letters, even actual play reports) which show Dave's own evolution of BM over the decades versus the TSR DA modules or the 3e stuff.
Quote from: yabaziou;833507I'm remembering more than 25 years ago when MRH and the Wieck siblings where the co-owners (and also founders, if I remember correctly) of White Wolf, which also published Inphobia. They were pretty dismissive of AD&D (which was in its 2nd iteration). I have read an interview where one of the Wieck siblings said AD&D was not a good game to tell stories.
25 years is a long time. Opinions can change.
Also, let's keep marketing in mind. WW was the new kid on the block against the established TSR so of course they tried to attract customers by reaching out to gamers disenchanted with TSR's products. That's how most companies try to sell The New Hotness.
It's also how the OSR sold The Old Hotness. "WotC isn't real roleplaying! We're the real roleplaying!" Same song, different day.
Quote from: Spinachcat;834072Tell us about the 60s references!
Also, does your BM community have documentation (emails, letters, even actual play reports) which show Dave's own evolution of BM over the decades versus the TSR DA modules or the 3e stuff.
I'd be interested in the answer to this question, as well. My experiences are that the 'published' Blackmoor is very different to the Blackmoor that I played in with Dave in the GM chair; our time there was a lot less 'mainstream' RPG in tone then what I've been seeing discussed in the forum. Dave was a pretty 'off-the-wall' GM, which made for a real contrast with the way Phil ran his game campaign. (Phil, as in "Empire of the Petal Throne; Dave was a player in our game group, as the infamous Captain Harchar of the Blazoned Sail Clan.)
Speaking as a historian and archivist, I have found over the past decade that the way these game campaigns are viewed through the lens of the published materials and the various on-line 'mythologies' (for lack of a better word, sorry!) is very, very different from the way we played in and ran them back in Ye Olden Dayes. Fascinating! :)
Quote from: Spinachcat;83407725 years is a long time. Opinions can change.
Also, let's keep marketing in mind. WW was the new kid on the block against the established TSR so of course they tried to attract customers by reaching out to gamers disenchanted with TSR's products. That's how most companies try to sell The New Hotness.
It's also how the OSR sold The Old Hotness. "WotC isn't real roleplaying! We're the real roleplaying!" Same song, different day.
Yeah, 25 is a long time and opinions can change. But the more the things change, the more the things remain the same ...
Given the fact I have no proof that MRH is not sincere in this endeavor, I cannot make an informed comment on this. MHR used to be this guy with the new hype long time ago. We will see what comes of this. But his KS records do not speak highly of him !
Quote from: chirine ba kal;834085Speaking as a historian and archivist, I have found over the past decade that the way these game campaigns are viewed through the lens of the published materials and the various on-line 'mythologies' (for lack of a better word, sorry!) is very, very different from the way we played in and ran them back in Ye Olden Dayes. Fascinating! :)
Hey Chirine! - I am Rafe, from the CBI! And I am not qualified to tell you anything about your own times, Sir! You, after all, were there! :)
Quote from: Spinachcat;834072Tell us about the 60s references!
Basically, all sci-fi came from Star Trek; except, of course, the references to the "Beagle". For the more horrifying themes of the game, the old "Dark Shadows" series was an important influence, as was the Charlton Heston flick, "El Cid", over similar movies of the time. As to literary influences, Leiber, Poul Anderson, Moorcock, Frank Herbert, and Tolkien's "Hobbit", through the different board and Tolkien-based wargames, seem to have played considerable roles during the FFC years. (Until '75.)
As to most modern players not understanding those references, that might only in part be true - they surely recognize them, but obviously not to the degree that people did, 50 years ago. As in, you can present those dramatic tropes to your players as a gamemaster, but you cannot count on them recognizing them, which obviously changes the tone of your narration in many fundamental ways.
In all brevity, I'd describe this sensation with a neutral example, that I've heard being referred to as "The Spiderman Conundrum": A listener will have a completely different emotional reaction to the wall-climbing, muscular man in the fetish suit who shoots white goo at his enemies if he has never heard about Marvel comics before. :D
Quote from: Spinachcat;834072Also, does your BM community have documentation (emails, letters, even actual play reports) which show Dave's own evolution of BM over the decades versus the TSR DA modules or the 3e stuff.
We have, but they are admittedly all over the place. My friend Havard has collected a reader's digest over here:
http://blackmoor.mystara.net/articles.html
Especially the articles by Greg Svenson, Arneson's best friend, and his Bedivere, are worth a read.
Now, when it comes to evolution of rules and gaming patterns, I don't think a full reconstruction is possible - or useful. for that matter.
From what I learned, AD&D 1e was a valid representation of Gygax personal take on the game, while "Adventures in Fantasy", DA's last big writing credit, seems to reflect the human-centric, low fantasy approach of the so-called "Fantasy Game" that became the base for D&D. Who invented what and when, especially after almost 50 years now, I have to say, I don't give a rat's ass.
Personally, what always drove me to Blackmoor was that the setting uses traditional grimdark tropes, from Cthulhu to Le Morte d'Arthur, but is not as bleask as modern renditions want to make it. In short, lots of great stories to tell, and to create. :)
Quite aware who you are, sir - I'm not saying that you're commenting on what we did back then; I'm commenting that there feels like a 'generation gap' between us old codgers in the Twin Cities and modern gamers. Discussing how I run a Braunstein, for example, can get very sticky as modern gamers seem to have difficulty with our "hand-wavy", "loosey-goosey" style of play back then. People who watch the videos of my games comment on this, as well as on things like I don't get very concerned with players knowing 'meta game information'.
In Phil's campaign, for example, I knew a heck of a lot about his world - to the point where he'd ask me questions about how the place worked - but I didn't use that in the game play; I stayed within what I knew I would know as a resident of the place. That was part and parcel of what we called 'role-playing' back then, and we had what I think is called 'immersion' these days in bucket loads.
Like I say, I fond all of this discussion fascinating, as it gives me a look into how games work and are played these days. :)
The three Adventures in Blackmoor module series by Arneson and Ritchie for BX/BECMI are still some of my favorites.
Quote from: chirine ba kal;834749Quite aware who you are, sir - I'm not saying that you're commenting on what we did back then; I'm commenting that there feels like a 'generation gap' between us old codgers in the Twin Cities and modern gamers. Discussing how I run a Braunstein, for example, can get very sticky as modern gamers seem to have difficulty with our "hand-wavy", "loosey-goosey" style of play back then. People who watch the videos of my games comment on this, as well as on things like I don't get very concerned with players knowing 'meta game information'.
Sure, absolutely. As you might have read over at the CBI, I hit the local con circuit pretty hard this year - and what I can say is, I am not sure about modern gamers having any difficulties, but the kids have definitely way more toys today than I need for my BM/OD&D/BECMI/DCC RPG games.
Quote from: chirine ba kal;834749Like I say, I fond all of this discussion fascinating, as it gives me a look into how games work and are played these days. :)
Yeah. This board, in general, a place I think I will stay at, for a while.
Quote from: Omega;834753The three Adventures in Blackmoor module series by Arneson and Ritchie for BX/BECMI are still some of my favorites.
Mine too!
Quote from: TristramEvans;831536It's "official" in the same way the Dune prequels are "official"; nothing to do with the original creator
I was about to ask, Didn't Mr. Arneson depart this plane a few years back?
I dunno, this kind of stuff always seems to be to be a case of "Let's use a known title to our marketing advantage even though we've nothing to do with the original." Maybe someone else knows more about why we should want Blackmoor by someone new. Or want Blackmoor at all for that matter.
Well it would be nice to introduce a new generation to the setting without forcing them to hunt down very OOP modules.
Apparently there have been a few other tries at doing a Blackmoor book. One back in 2008 or 2009? Zeitgeist Games? But WOTC didnt allow it for some reason?
Which makes one wonder how Hagen is going to pull this off assuming he did or did not get the license?
In all modesty, the one thing that should have become somehow official would have been the LFC. Not because of me, but because of who else was involved, and because of what it represented.
I would love to see the brand of "Blackmoor" somehow endure, but apart from a few gems (all hail be editor Tad Kilgore), the d20 line already had some pretty random additions. Not gonna lie, reprints, or reorganizations of the existing, published content, I would like to see, and very much so.
But seemingly random additions - fan fiction at best, and recycled content from other writing projects, at worst - is not something I want to see, especially if it' done by people who are new to the setting. MRH works with CA Suleiman, who also worked with BM d20, so there's a certain connection. But without him, really, what connection would there be to the original setting and campaign?
On the off chance. I searched through D&D Classics and only DA2 Temple of the Frog is up.
Quote from: Omega;835502On the off chance. I searched through D&D Classics and only DA2 Temple of the Frog is up.
That was the most iconic of that series, of course.
There was a 3.5 setting book, a living campaign with at least a dozen or more adventures, and a series of setting/splat books. Oh and the dungeons of Blackmoor.
There was an attempt to start a living campaign for 4th ed D&D and there was a core book, print on demand style paperback, and a few adventures, then the plug was pulled. I don't think WotC stopped them directly, but I think all interest drained away after something WotC did. I'm not clear on the details, not being privy.
Quote from: dar;835856There was a 3.5 setting book, a living campaign with at least a dozen or more adventures, and a series of setting/splat books. Oh and the dungeons of Blackmoor.
There was an attempt to start a living campaign for 4th ed D&D and there was a core book, print on demand style paperback, and a few adventures, then the plug was pulled. I don't think WotC stopped them directly, but I think all interest drained away after something WotC did. I'm not clear on the details, not being privy.
The story is actually pretty well publicised - at the end of the Blackmoor MMRPG's 3e campaign in 2008, Zeitgeist Games, the company underwent structural changes, and decided to subsidize their RPG branch to a business partner's startup, "Code Monkey Games". And, if it's no secret that ZGG had already done a pretty bad job with a few of their books and with the third season of the Living Campaign (the aforementioned MMRPG), that subsidiary startup proved to be completely overwhelmed by the task. Not sure what went on in detail, but before the line was officially discontinued, basically all pillars of the project, from writers to volunteers, had broken down, and away. I don't think it it was necessarily anyone's personal fault; more that the RPG market probably underwent its strongest changes since the early 1990s during the late 200X.
In sum, though, even if Wizbro had not pulled the plug, as it was reported, then the line would probably not seen much continuation after the 4e core book.