Quote from: Spinachcat on March 20, 2021, 10:51:53 PM
If you think you need a "shadow con" to have fun, why not just blow off that con and just gather your friends at a big rented house and run a mini-con instead? Minicons are great fun and usually cheaper with better food.

No shit, minicons are great. However, if you do not step out there in public and represent the games you like by running them, then people think that the game itself is dead - particularly the casual gamer crowd.

(PS: Right in my city is a great place for having three couples together for a fantasy RPG minicon! A little pricey, but cool!
https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/5151609?source_impression_id=p3_1566512476_JG63zEN953G5eXT1 )

Quote from: Spinachcat on March 20, 2021, 10:51:53 PMAs for running games in public, I am always VERY upfront in the description and I reiterate the description before the game. That usually solves 90% of potential issues. Usually people who don't like gory horror don't show up to games listed as "Splatterpunk Horror. Mature Audience Only." Also, "merciless old school dungeoncrawl" weeds out the unwanted rather nicely.

That's cool, but I have had members of the Con Committee edit my game listings before. Not to mention getting my games shit-talked by the local Organized Play SJW lemmings prior to running them.

Quote from: Spinachcat on March 20, 2021, 10:51:53 PM
If you think you need a "shadow con" to have fun, why not just blow off that con and just gather your friends at a big rented house and run a mini-con instead? Minicons are great fun and usually cheaper with better food.

Because we're also running lots of tables at the con also.  In our case the con is a meeting place for old friends who consistently block that time out every year.

We have a big group, 20 or so.  So its not hard for us to have one game running in the rooms while some are running on grid, and others are playing on grid with the option to move to the backup game.  I realize not everyone is going to do that; pointing out the alternative of an off-grid because no one should endure bad games at a big con.

The response to the GM was way way too polite in order to make the so-called "victims" virtuous.
I am going to suggest that the entire incident is a total fraud by and for SJWs.

The local con I had went to nearly every year started calling the gamemaster the "host" for what I can only assume is SJW reasons. I stopped going.

Quote from: horsesoldier on March 22, 2021, 09:56:09 AM
The local con I had went to nearly every year started calling the gamemaster the "host" for what I can only assume is SJW reasons. I stopped going.

Bang on the money, they ARE removing the words master/slave even from coding (as in programing), because somehow, somewhere, someone (who hasn't been a slave and almost sure doesn't descend from slaves) might get trigered.

The mindvirus is everywhere, and the TTRPG scene has been infiltrated at the top. We need a FreedomCon.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 20, 2021, 02:43:42 PM

Quote from: jhkim on March 20, 2021, 11:31:59 AM

Quote from: Visitor Q on March 18, 2021, 12:30:34 PM
We sit down at the table and the GM doesn't play out a sword and sorcery adventure but instead introduces a wierd creepy sex thing, obviously I will leave. But I also think I have the right to demand the organisers to put me in an actual sword and sorcery game being run. 

Would I actually get this? Probably depend on the event.  Interestingly this happened at a massive gaming convention in the UK a couple years back (I wasn't in the group it happened to). It made National news bizarrely. I think the GM was barred from running again.

Quote from: Slambo on March 18, 2021, 12:46:24 PM
From what i heard in said UK case the characters werr just knocked out and woke up in different clothes without their gear. Or am i misremembering this.

The GM in question - Kevin Rolfe - says the description was "The tour rep gives you some shots, everything goes fuzzy. You wake up naked, handcuffed to each other, with sore bums, in the back of a van. Guys with guns make you get out and say run." He went on to claim that he didn't intend it to be anything sexual - just that the drugs used to knock them out also gives them diarrhea. However, players from the game said they understood that they were drugged and raped.

Source: https://postmortemstudios.wordpress.com/2019/06/04/rpg-interview-with-kevin-rolfe-uk-games-expos-infamous-gang-rape-games-master/

So, should we believe the players that have exactly zero proof anything sexual happened because it's "their truth"?

On the other hand in a game advertised as women only, and a "safe space", the DM proceeds to have the NPC's tell the PC's they're only AND I QUOTE "Wet Holes", can't latter claim there was nothing sexual. After that everything IS sexual, furthermore, making it walking out not a viable choice?

Like I already said elsewhere: Anyone trully needing a "safe space" is more likely not to be able to stand up to the bullies/creeps, making it the perfect hunting ground for said bullies/creeps.

If you really need a "safe space" you need to get some therapy before even thinking of playing RPGs with people you don't know.

The only person who needed to leave that table was the GM. He wouldn't have pulled this off with a different kind of crowd. You're right, he's a predator, but fuck this hobby if the predator gets to stay and the people he preys on have to leave until they get the adequate level of therapy you think is necessary for them to have to kick this shit out of the hobby.

Quote from: Spinachcat on March 20, 2021, 10:51:53 PM
If you think you need a "shadow con" to have fun, why not just blow off that con and just gather your friends at a big rented house and run a mini-con instead? Minicons are great fun and usually cheaper with better food.

As for running games in public, I am always VERY upfront in the description and I reiterate the description before the game. That usually solves 90% of potential issues. Usually people who don't like gory horror don't show up to games listed as "Splatterpunk Horror. Mature Audience Only." Also, "merciless old school dungeoncrawl" weeds out the unwanted rather nicely.

Sound approach! But I suspect the bad apple situations are provocateurs trying to start stuff on purpose. Unfortunately these days the internet only magnifies the fringe cases and ignores the vast majority of the normal and less click-worthy cases of games where fun was had by all.

Quote from: camazotz on March 31, 2021, 05:35:44 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 20, 2021, 02:43:42 PM

Quote from: jhkim on March 20, 2021, 11:31:59 AM

Quote from: Visitor Q on March 18, 2021, 12:30:34 PM
We sit down at the table and the GM doesn't play out a sword and sorcery adventure but instead introduces a wierd creepy sex thing, obviously I will leave. But I also think I have the right to demand the organisers to put me in an actual sword and sorcery game being run. 

Would I actually get this? Probably depend on the event.  Interestingly this happened at a massive gaming convention in the UK a couple years back (I wasn't in the group it happened to). It made National news bizarrely. I think the GM was barred from running again.

Quote from: Slambo on March 18, 2021, 12:46:24 PM
From what i heard in said UK case the characters werr just knocked out and woke up in different clothes without their gear. Or am i misremembering this.

The GM in question - Kevin Rolfe - says the description was "The tour rep gives you some shots, everything goes fuzzy. You wake up naked, handcuffed to each other, with sore bums, in the back of a van. Guys with guns make you get out and say run." He went on to claim that he didn't intend it to be anything sexual - just that the drugs used to knock them out also gives them diarrhea. However, players from the game said they understood that they were drugged and raped.

Source: https://postmortemstudios.wordpress.com/2019/06/04/rpg-interview-with-kevin-rolfe-uk-games-expos-infamous-gang-rape-games-master/

So, should we believe the players that have exactly zero proof anything sexual happened because it's "their truth"?

On the other hand in a game advertised as women only, and a "safe space", the DM proceeds to have the NPC's tell the PC's they're only AND I QUOTE "Wet Holes", can't latter claim there was nothing sexual. After that everything IS sexual, furthermore, making it walking out not a viable choice?

Like I already said elsewhere: Anyone trully needing a "safe space" is more likely not to be able to stand up to the bullies/creeps, making it the perfect hunting ground for said bullies/creeps.

If you really need a "safe space" you need to get some therapy before even thinking of playing RPGs with people you don't know.

The only person who needed to leave that table was the GM. He wouldn't have pulled this off with a different kind of crowd. You're right, he's a predator, but fuck this hobby if the predator gets to stay and the people he preys on have to leave until they get the adequate level of therapy you think is necessary for them to have to kick this shit out of the hobby.

You missunderstand, they should have kicked him out, but they couldn't, because those who really need a safe space aren'0t able to stand up to the bully/creep and should have therapy before dreaming of playing with people they don't know.

As for kicking anyone out of the hobby... Not my place, yours or theirs, not even in the power of any of us. Best case scenario the creep finds he can't get players after word of mouth does it's job.

Again, the whole "safe space" BS is just the perfect lure/hunting ground for these creeps, and their prey isn't capable of standing up to them. If you really cared for their prey you'd focus on helping them be able to fend for themselves, instead you're bussy missinterpreting my words.

Your positions is the same as "Don't teach my daughter not to get raped, teach your son not to rape". Women need to know how to avoid danger and how to protect themselves if worst comes to pass, with a gun preferably.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 31, 2021, 06:04:02 PM

Quote from: camazotz on March 31, 2021, 05:35:44 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 20, 2021, 02:43:42 PM

Quote from: jhkim on March 20, 2021, 11:31:59 AM

Quote from: Visitor Q on March 18, 2021, 12:30:34 PM
We sit down at the table and the GM doesn't play out a sword and sorcery adventure but instead introduces a wierd creepy sex thing, obviously I will leave. But I also think I have the right to demand the organisers to put me in an actual sword and sorcery game being run. 

Would I actually get this? Probably depend on the event.  Interestingly this happened at a massive gaming convention in the UK a couple years back (I wasn't in the group it happened to). It made National news bizarrely. I think the GM was barred from running again.

Quote from: Slambo on March 18, 2021, 12:46:24 PM

From what i heard in said UK case the characters werr just knocked out and woke up in different clothes without their gear. Or am i misremembering this.

The GM in question - Kevin Rolfe - says the description was "The tour rep gives you some shots, everything goes fuzzy. You wake up naked, handcuffed to each other, with sore bums, in the back of a van. Guys with guns make you get out and say run." He went on to claim that he didn't intend it to be anything sexual - just that the drugs used to knock them out also gives them diarrhea. However, players from the game said they understood that they were drugged and raped.

Source: https://postmortemstudios.wordpress.com/2019/06/04/rpg-interview-with-kevin-rolfe-uk-games-expos-infamous-gang-rape-games-master/

So, should we believe the players that have exactly zero proof anything sexual happened because it's "their truth"?

On the other hand in a game advertised as women only, and a "safe space", the DM proceeds to have the NPC's tell the PC's they're only AND I QUOTE "Wet Holes", can't latter claim there was nothing sexual. After that everything IS sexual, furthermore, making it walking out not a viable choice?

Like I already said elsewhere: Anyone trully needing a "safe space" is more likely not to be able to stand up to the bullies/creeps, making it the perfect hunting ground for said bullies/creeps.

If you really need a "safe space" you need to get some therapy before even thinking of playing RPGs with people you don't know.

The only person who needed to leave that table was the GM. He wouldn't have pulled this off with a different kind of crowd. You're right, he's a predator, but fuck this hobby if the predator gets to stay and the people he preys on have to leave until they get the adequate level of therapy you think is necessary for them to have to kick this shit out of the hobby.

You missunderstand, they should have kicked him out, but they couldn't, because those who really need a safe space aren'0t able to stand up to the bully/creep and should have therapy before dreaming of playing with people they don't know.

As for kicking anyone out of the hobby... Not my place, yours or theirs, not even in the power of any of us. Best case scenario the creep finds he can't get players after word of mouth does it's job.

Again, the whole "safe space" BS is just the perfect lure/hunting ground for these creeps, and their prey isn't capable of standing up to them. If you really cared for their prey you'd focus on helping them be able to fend for themselves, instead you're bussy missinterpreting my words.

Your positions is the same as "Don't teach my daughter not to get raped, teach your son not to rape". Women need to know how to avoid danger and how to protect themselves if worst comes to pass, with a gun preferably.

My point is that their problems are theirs and while they do need to learn how to handle life situations that are threatening, I am personally embarassed at the idea that one of those theatening situations is somehow my hobby. This asshole in our hobby should be our problem too, and if we aren't also running out creeps like this then maybe we need to go get some therapy too to find out why we tolerate creeps in the hobby.

But also, to take the last point: wouldn't you agree that both actions work? Teach your daughter how to protect herself. Then teach your son how to be a decent person. Then teach both to stand up against abusers, and for others.

Edit: I guess the issue that fires me up on this situation (and others like it) comes from the fact that the guy who is the predator in this situation is taking advantage of the social mores and good will of all around him to get away with his actions. That the girls need help is broader than just "help themselves." His behavior damages the community by tacit acceptance or looking the other way.

Quote from: camazotz on March 31, 2021, 06:47:05 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 31, 2021, 06:04:02 PM

Quote from: camazotz on March 31, 2021, 05:35:44 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 20, 2021, 02:43:42 PM

Quote from: jhkim on March 20, 2021, 11:31:59 AM

Quote from: Visitor Q on March 18, 2021, 12:30:34 PM
We sit down at the table and the GM doesn't play out a sword and sorcery adventure but instead introduces a wierd creepy sex thing, obviously I will leave. But I also think I have the right to demand the organisers to put me in an actual sword and sorcery game being run. 

Would I actually get this? Probably depend on the event.  Interestingly this happened at a massive gaming convention in the UK a couple years back (I wasn't in the group it happened to). It made National news bizarrely. I think the GM was barred from running again.

Quote from: Slambo on March 18, 2021, 12:46:24 PM

From what i heard in said UK case the characters werr just knocked out and woke up in different clothes without their gear. Or am i misremembering this.

The GM in question - Kevin Rolfe - says the description was "The tour rep gives you some shots, everything goes fuzzy. You wake up naked, handcuffed to each other, with sore bums, in the back of a van. Guys with guns make you get out and say run." He went on to claim that he didn't intend it to be anything sexual - just that the drugs used to knock them out also gives them diarrhea. However, players from the game said they understood that they were drugged and raped.

Source: https://postmortemstudios.wordpress.com/2019/06/04/rpg-interview-with-kevin-rolfe-uk-games-expos-infamous-gang-rape-games-master/

So, should we believe the players that have exactly zero proof anything sexual happened because it's "their truth"?

On the other hand in a game advertised as women only, and a "safe space", the DM proceeds to have the NPC's tell the PC's they're only AND I QUOTE "Wet Holes", can't latter claim there was nothing sexual. After that everything IS sexual, furthermore, making it walking out not a viable choice?

Like I already said elsewhere: Anyone trully needing a "safe space" is more likely not to be able to stand up to the bullies/creeps, making it the perfect hunting ground for said bullies/creeps.

If you really need a "safe space" you need to get some therapy before even thinking of playing RPGs with people you don't know.

The only person who needed to leave that table was the GM. He wouldn't have pulled this off with a different kind of crowd. You're right, he's a predator, but fuck this hobby if the predator gets to stay and the people he preys on have to leave until they get the adequate level of therapy you think is necessary for them to have to kick this shit out of the hobby.

You missunderstand, they should have kicked him out, but they couldn't, because those who really need a safe space aren'0t able to stand up to the bully/creep and should have therapy before dreaming of playing with people they don't know.

As for kicking anyone out of the hobby... Not my place, yours or theirs, not even in the power of any of us. Best case scenario the creep finds he can't get players after word of mouth does it's job.

Again, the whole "safe space" BS is just the perfect lure/hunting ground for these creeps, and their prey isn't capable of standing up to them. If you really cared for their prey you'd focus on helping them be able to fend for themselves, instead you're bussy missinterpreting my words.

Your positions is the same as "Don't teach my daughter not to get raped, teach your son not to rape". Women need to know how to avoid danger and how to protect themselves if worst comes to pass, with a gun preferably.

My point is that their problems are theirs and while they do need to learn how to handle life situations that are threatening, I am personally embarassed at the idea that one of those theatening situations is somehow my hobby. This asshole in our hobby should be our problem too, and if we aren't also running out creeps like this then maybe we need to go get some therapy too to find out why we tolerate creeps in the hobby.

But also, to take the last point: wouldn't you agree that both actions work? Teach your daughter how to protect herself. Then teach your son how to be a decent person. Then teach both to stand up against abusers, and for others.

Edit: I guess the issue that fires me up on this situation (and others like it) comes from the fact that the guy who is the predator in this situation is taking advantage of the social mores and good will of all around him to get away with his actions. That the girls need help is broader than just "help themselves." His behavior damages the community by tacit acceptance or looking the other way.

Last thing first: No, do you really think rapists rape because they weren't taught not too? That's idiotic.

First thing: How do you proposse WE run out the creeps and predators out of the hobby? A police force that will go to everybody's house and test them, if they're a creep/predator then put them in the black list so no store will sell them TTRPG materials?

We don't tolerate them, as shown by the response the video/post got. What else do you want?

Should WE hire Sherlock Holmes to find out who the creep is, where he lives and send a hitman after him?

Since WE can't do jack shit more than we already do the next step is to help past and future victims to stop being prey.

Quote from: camazotz on March 31, 2021, 06:47:05 PM
Your positions is the same as "Don't teach my daughter not to get raped, teach your son not to rape".

There's no risk of my son - or most people's sons - raping anyone, but there is a risk of other people's daughters being raped.

Quote from: S'mon on March 31, 2021, 07:04:01 PM

Quote from: camazotz on March 31, 2021, 06:47:05 PM
Your positions is the same as "Don't teach my daughter not to get raped, teach your son not to rape".

There's no risk of my son - or most people's sons - raping anyone, but there is a risk of other people's daughters being raped.

And that risk can only be adressed by teaching women how to reduce it, teach them to use guns and give them guns.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 31, 2021, 07:39:53 PM

Quote from: S'mon on March 31, 2021, 07:04:01 PM

Quote from: camazotz on March 31, 2021, 06:47:05 PM
Your positions is the same as "Don't teach my daughter not to get raped, teach your son not to rape".

There's no risk of my son - or most people's sons - raping anyone, but there is a risk of other people's daughters being raped.

And that risk can only be adressed by teaching women how to reduce it, teach them to use guns and give them guns.

I saw someone advocating for that on Ovarit today. Oh, and for only women to be able to use guns. Since they statistically are much less likely to commit gun violence than men.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on March 31, 2021, 07:45:56 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 31, 2021, 07:39:53 PM

Quote from: S'mon on March 31, 2021, 07:04:01 PM

Quote from: camazotz on March 31, 2021, 06:47:05 PM
Your positions is the same as "Don't teach my daughter not to get raped, teach your son not to rape".

There's no risk of my son - or most people's sons - raping anyone, but there is a risk of other people's daughters being raped.

And that risk can only be adressed by teaching women how to reduce it, teach them to use guns and give them guns.

I saw someone advocating for that on Ovarit today. Oh, and for only women to be able to use guns. Since they statistically are much less likely to commit gun violence than men.

Only because they own less guns than men, in DV cases guess who is more likelly to use a weapon? And yes, your cast iron pan does count as a weapon.

Greetings!

Yeah, I'm sorry, but it sure as fuck IS NOT THE "COMMUNITY'S" RESPONSIBILITY to weed these moron fucking DM's out of the hobby. Get the fuck out of here with that Marxist community bullshit.

The people's responsibility belongs precisely and solely to the players involved in that group. Or any group. Anywhere, at a private home, at a gamestore, at a convention. Wherever. If you have an idiot DM--or "Creeper" or whatever flavor of moron--the solution is simple, and yours alone--get up, excuse yourself, and say "Sorry, but this game isn't for me"--and leave, and never come back. That's when you look at the group boards at the store, or online, or whatever, and find another DM.

Yeah, that's what people did back in the fucking days of the dinosaurs, when I was in high school. Before cell phones. Before computers. If some jackass DM was attempting to run bullshit, they got left hard.

Hell, even associates and such--that you knew weren't total jackasses--when they would get in some jackass mood, we'd say, "Dude, get it going right. Stop the BS and fucking around"--which, for most normal people, was sufficient warning from friends or hoped-for-friends to unfuck your game and run it right, as people were assuming that you would. Even people back then could be jackasses now and then, and it was handled promptly, on the spot. By teenagers.

All this crying and whining. Just fucking check them. They either fly right, or you leave. That simple. As others have mentioned, if you are some total moron DM, word gets around in your town, in your neighborhood, in the local game store--or, I'm certainly assuming in online groups and shit--that you are a total moron DM, and you won't be able to attract any players to your game. End of story, and end of problem.

I think in the deeper problem here is you have a bunch of weak, timid people that don't have the balls to stand up for themselves. There were jackass DM's back in the day--all into slaughterfests, racism, rape trains, whatever. You know the type. I've heard of a few of them over the years, and people handled them. They were dropped, and excluded, and ostracized. They didn't have large gaming groups, and they were not welcome to join anyone. Eventually those types of moron players and moron DM's just vanished entirely.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK