Luckily, I never saw a single event, not even big conventions, asking to "pay to play" here in Italy. GMs are volunteers. Even I did it a couple of times.

Of course it works both ways. A few years ago I went to this "D&D Celebration Day" and I sat at a table. The DM was terrible: the railroading was transparent and he believed that "generating excitement during an action scene" meant "having a seizure while running it". At the end I wanted my money back - but, of course, the amount was zero. And nothing gives you back the time.

How is the event space paid for, if there's no money being exchanged?

Quote from: horsesoldier on March 18, 2021, 03:34:31 PM
How is the event space paid for, if there's no money being exchanged?

From tickets for the whole event to stalls from LFGSs selling their products. The "free gaming" is considered a form of advertising. Hopefully, a bunch of people will say "Hey, I really liked this!" and buy their own copy.

Some miniature-gaming clubs can organise gigantic three-days battles just to show that they can do it.

In an event like "Lucca Comics and Games" (basically the European ComiCon, but with less emphasis on movies and shows) the town population doubles.



People from hotel owners to hot-dog stalls work at full capacity 24/7 for four/five days, making the municipality quite happy.

Quote from: Slambo on March 18, 2021, 12:46:24 PM
From what i heard in said UK case the characters werr just knocked out and woke up in different clothes without their gear. Or am i misremembering this.

If it's from the gamingexpo one in Birmingham I heard from a staff member I know that it was quite a bit worse than this. If I remember what I was told correctly:
Admission was £4 per person.
The Game was Tales from the Loop.
It was billed as an 18+ scenario.
The GM allowed gamers who were very obviously under 18s to play (I think some may not have even been teenagers). This was against event rules.
The  under 18s were with adult family members who were also PCs
The GM was explicitly meant to declare to event organisers beforehand if there was any sexual content to get it vetted which he didn't.
Sexual content was violent in nature and served as an introduction.
This did not go down well with the table.

So basically sounds like a mess all round and pretty poor management of expectations by everyone, including the adult PCs. Granted that is second hand info remembered from a few years ago so make of it what you will.

If someone gets into a gross game at a con, I don't begrudge them filing a complaint by any means

But I find the best con system is going with some friends and having a shadow con rolling in the rooms.  There's always someone from the group running an off grid game, and if friends find themselves in a shit on grid game it's easy to excuse yourself and go to the backup good game.

Don't ever bet your vacation on a rando DM without a backup plan

Quote from: EOTB on March 19, 2021, 11:00:37 PM
If someone gets into a gross game at a con, I don't begrudge them filing a complaint by any means

But I find the best con system is going with some friends and having a shadow con rolling in the rooms.  There's always someone from the group running an off grid game, and if friends find themselves in a shit on grid game it's easy to excuse yourself and go to the backup good game.

Don't ever bet your vacation on a rando DM without a backup plan

Bolding mine.

I honestly had never thought of doing this, but will be implementing this at all future cons I will attend.

Quote from: Ghostmaker on March 18, 2021, 08:23:44 AM
If you piss me off enough to cause me to leave the table at a convention, rest assured I will be pissed off enough to file a formal complaint with the convention organizers. As you noted, if I pay money for a game slot and the guy running it is a complete jackwagon, I'm not gonna be real happy.

Unfortunately from experience at a few cons. Going to the staff doesnt allways work. And in the two times I got ripped off on an event. I never got a refund for either. And two I should have raised hell about I did not. I talked quietly with the publisher of the game the troublemaker was a representative of. Didnt get much of a response and later find out the troublemakers had told the publisher I was the one causing trouble. So I cancelled the business deal with them and warned some potential backers.

That is 4 out of alot of events played over alot of cons. Was lucky I guess. Sure some were sub par. Looking at you RPGA and Dream Pod 9! But overall even the lower grade ones were not onerous and of the ones payed for, which was few, most of those, except for the RPGA and DP9 ones, went fine. And the two that were troublesome did not kick in till more than halfway in. And it took a bit to realize what was going on.

Others YMMV has YMMV'd alot, unfortunately. Theres allways going to be some bad apples out there for one reason or another.

Generally speaking, if you do prepare a game for a convention it is better to be "safe than sorry". To be an ass during a convention just to prove a point is stupid. The first time I did it I was surprised to see kids sitting down at my table with their parents. Luckily the scenario I prepared was as vanilla D&D as it gets.

The second time I volunteered the organisers specifically asked me for a CoC scenario. While I hope that everybody knows what CoC implies, it is always better to check out the group during the opening part before pulling an "Alien" moment and having blood raining on everybody's head... Vague descriptions and innuendo work well for most of the situations anyway.

Quote from: Visitor Q on March 18, 2021, 12:30:34 PM
We sit down at the table and the GM doesn't play out a sword and sorcery adventure but instead introduces a wierd creepy sex thing, obviously I will leave. But I also think I have the right to demand the organisers to put me in an actual sword and sorcery game being run. 

Would I actually get this? Probably depend on the event.  Interestingly this happened at a massive gaming convention in the UK a couple years back (I wasn't in the group it happened to). It made National news bizarrely. I think the GM was barred from running again.

Quote from: Slambo on March 18, 2021, 12:46:24 PM
From what i heard in said UK case the characters werr just knocked out and woke up in different clothes without their gear. Or am i misremembering this.

The GM in question - Kevin Rolfe - says the description was "The tour rep gives you some shots, everything goes fuzzy. You wake up naked, handcuffed to each other, with sore bums, in the back of a van. Guys with guns make you get out and say run." He went on to claim that he didn't intend it to be anything sexual - just that the drugs used to knock them out also gives them diarrhea. However, players from the game said they understood that they were drugged and raped.

Source: https://postmortemstudios.wordpress.com/2019/06/04/rpg-interview-with-kevin-rolfe-uk-games-expos-infamous-gang-rape-games-master/

Quote from: jhkim on March 20, 2021, 11:31:59 AM
He went on to claim that he didn't intend it to be anything sexual - just that the drugs used to knock them out also gives them diarrhea. However, players from the game said they understood that they were drugged and raped.

Source: https://postmortemstudios.wordpress.com/2019/06/04/rpg-interview-with-kevin-rolfe-uk-games-expos-infamous-gang-rape-games-master/

I read the interview and I still do not understand how someone preparing a game for a convention could have thought that this was a good idea.

Quote from: Reckall on March 20, 2021, 11:54:27 AM

Quote from: jhkim on March 20, 2021, 11:31:59 AM
He went on to claim that he didn't intend it to be anything sexual - just that the drugs used to knock them out also gives them diarrhea. However, players from the game said they understood that they were drugged and raped.

Source: https://postmortemstudios.wordpress.com/2019/06/04/rpg-interview-with-kevin-rolfe-uk-games-expos-infamous-gang-rape-games-master/

I read the interview and I still do not understand how someone preparing a game for a convention could have thought that this was a good idea.

That doesn't ring true to me, but even if he really is that clueless, he still shouldn't be running convention games. The GM from the OP sounds similarly bad. A man advertising for all-female players is a warning sign in the first place to me. Further, advertising they should be "safe and comfortable" - but then (from how I read it) having the party harassed and beaten by sexist inn staff.

Note: I didn't listen to the half-hour long video from the OP, but I read the original thread here: https://imgur.com/gallery/MhIVHkM

Quote from: jhkim on March 20, 2021, 11:31:59 AM

Quote from: Visitor Q on March 18, 2021, 12:30:34 PM
We sit down at the table and the GM doesn't play out a sword and sorcery adventure but instead introduces a wierd creepy sex thing, obviously I will leave. But I also think I have the right to demand the organisers to put me in an actual sword and sorcery game being run. 

Would I actually get this? Probably depend on the event.  Interestingly this happened at a massive gaming convention in the UK a couple years back (I wasn't in the group it happened to). It made National news bizarrely. I think the GM was barred from running again.

Quote from: Slambo on March 18, 2021, 12:46:24 PM
From what i heard in said UK case the characters werr just knocked out and woke up in different clothes without their gear. Or am i misremembering this.

The GM in question - Kevin Rolfe - says the description was "The tour rep gives you some shots, everything goes fuzzy. You wake up naked, handcuffed to each other, with sore bums, in the back of a van. Guys with guns make you get out and say run." He went on to claim that he didn't intend it to be anything sexual - just that the drugs used to knock them out also gives them diarrhea. However, players from the game said they understood that they were drugged and raped.

Source: https://postmortemstudios.wordpress.com/2019/06/04/rpg-interview-with-kevin-rolfe-uk-games-expos-infamous-gang-rape-games-master/

So, should we believe the players that have exactly zero proof anything sexual happened because it's "their truth"?

On the other hand in a game advertised as women only, and a "safe space", the DM proceeds to have the NPC's tell the PC's they're only AND I QUOTE "Wet Holes", can't latter claim there was nothing sexual. After that everything IS sexual, furthermore, making it walking out not a viable choice?

Like I already said elsewhere: Anyone trully needing a "safe space" is more likely not to be able to stand up to the bullies/creeps, making it the perfect hunting ground for said bullies/creeps.

If you really need a "safe space" you need to get some therapy before even thinking of playing RPGs with people you don't know.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 20, 2021, 02:43:42 PM

Quote from: jhkim on March 20, 2021, 11:31:59 AM

Quote from: Visitor Q on March 18, 2021, 12:30:34 PM
We sit down at the table and the GM doesn't play out a sword and sorcery adventure but instead introduces a wierd creepy sex thing, obviously I will leave. But I also think I have the right to demand the organisers to put me in an actual sword and sorcery game being run. 

Would I actually get this? Probably depend on the event.  Interestingly this happened at a massive gaming convention in the UK a couple years back (I wasn't in the group it happened to). It made National news bizarrely. I think the GM was barred from running again.

Quote from: Slambo on March 18, 2021, 12:46:24 PM
From what i heard in said UK case the characters werr just knocked out and woke up in different clothes without their gear. Or am i misremembering this.

The GM in question - Kevin Rolfe - says the description was "The tour rep gives you some shots, everything goes fuzzy. You wake up naked, handcuffed to each other, with sore bums, in the back of a van. Guys with guns make you get out and say run." He went on to claim that he didn't intend it to be anything sexual - just that the drugs used to knock them out also gives them diarrhea. However, players from the game said they understood that they were drugged and raped.

Source: https://postmortemstudios.wordpress.com/2019/06/04/rpg-interview-with-kevin-rolfe-uk-games-expos-infamous-gang-rape-games-master/

So, should we believe the players that have exactly zero proof anything sexual happened because it's "their truth"?

So as a GM I'm always interested in improving my ability to tell the story without relying on exposition. With that in mind, genuinely good faith question and not being sarcastic:  As I understand it you're saying this scenario wouldn't make you bat an eyelid or even raise an eyebrow from the pov that something sexual could have happened?

And if later on without any intermediary exposition an NPC or fellow PC for that matter, did raise the idea that a sexual assault had taken place you'd be surprised because there was zero evidence of this whatsoever in the story?

Tone is very difficult to establish on a forum so all I can say is again, genuinely interested in where you're coming from here because even by the GM's own version of events the scenario seems to have narrative inferences albeit ambiguous ones. The idea of drawing a veil over a scene is an established narrative technique (especially as the characters were drugged). So I wouldn't say this is cut and dry by any stretch but to say there's zero evidence to me seems like quite a bold statement.

But like I say as a GM I am interested in knowing that some players would be utterly oblivious to this as a story cue so would love to get your take.

If you think you need a "shadow con" to have fun, why not just blow off that con and just gather your friends at a big rented house and run a mini-con instead? Minicons are great fun and usually cheaper with better food.

As for running games in public, I am always VERY upfront in the description and I reiterate the description before the game. That usually solves 90% of potential issues. Usually people who don't like gory horror don't show up to games listed as "Splatterpunk Horror. Mature Audience Only." Also, "merciless old school dungeoncrawl" weeds out the unwanted rather nicely.

This is being promoted as a safe space, too.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-03-21/deathmatch-wrestling-bloody-and-inclusive/13261698

That's just what we need in gaming, players being hit over the head with light globes and falling backwards onto thumbtacks.