Quote from: blakkieNot everyone. And nor without bumps. Sure there are some grey and blackmarket but billions are paid each year. The info economy is alive and well.

This side-topic is a bit of a thread-killer if we pursue it (though I guess it might have some application). But I do think there are several significant differences. Firstly, in the information economy you're dealing with something that is essentially a luxury. Secondly, you're still dealing with people socialised in a certain way. Thirdly, it has definitely changed the buying habits of dozens of people I know, and I can only assume that the widespread availability of essentially free physical goods is going to change that even more.

But I'm not quite sure what we're talking about here. Are we having some sort of political argument?

Quote from: J Arcane...number 2...

...loose matter in space...

Tee-hee!

!i!

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaTee-hee!

!i!

Actually, if I recall correctly, recycled organic waste is one of the matter sources the replicators use . . .

...by-the-way, Riker was doing a Peter Venkman imitation throughout the first 3 seasons of Next Generation - but I should save that for another thread.



- Ed C.

Quote from: The Good AssyrianSex is undoubtedly still popular in the 24th Century.  And they never really did explore the sexual implications of holodeck technology...:eek:

I think there were some allusions in the Barclay episodes already. Of course, they were all just sittting happily in the park, but the real Trois and Crushers were so... offended.

When you get to DS9 Quark is offering the Vulcan Slave program constantly. Somehow I doubt that this is edutainment about slaves in Latinum mines.

Also there is a scene were Sisko is concerned that Jake wants to go to Holosuit with Nog. Jake's reply: "Dad, we're just playing base ball."

Quote from: 1of3I think there were some allusions in the Barclay episodes already. Of course, they were all just sittting happily in the park, but the real Trois and Crushers were so... offended.

When you get to DS9 Quark is offering the Vulcan Slave program constantly. Somehow I doubt that this is edutainment about slaves in Latinum mines.

Also there is a scene were Sisko is concerned that Jake wants to go to Holosuit with Nog. Jake's reply: "Dad, we're just playing base ball."

Indeed, it's made pretty damn clear in DS9 that for most of the races and cultures in the galaxy, sex is basically what holosuites are for, and Quark always seemed to be somewhat baffled and annoyed by the Fed guys who were wasting suite time with crap like simulating the invasion of the Alamo, when he could be selling that time to some wealthy trader who wanted to find out what it would be like to have sex with a woman with 6 heads and 3 extra clitorises.

Quote from: J Arcane....trader who wanted to find out what it would be like to have sex with a woman with 6 heads and 3 extra clitorises.

J, have you just handed me one of the main themes of my campaign or just an adventure idea ?

Regards,
David R

Quote from: droogThis side-topic is a bit of a thread-killer if we pursue it (though I guess it might have some application).

No thread killer. Interesting what I'm reading so far.....but I would just like it if some Trek references were scattered about

Regards,
David R

Quote from: RockViperYou could always create a set of replicator laws/rules for your trek universe. Here are a few examples, I don't think any of these violate what has been seen on the various trek shows.

1. Replicators cannot create matter from nothing (there must be some input material)

2. Replicators cannot create heavier matter from lighter matter (so no hydrogen to iron)

3. replicators cannot change the base atomic state of elemental material only change one type of molecule to another (no gold from lead transformations, but you could load in some carbon/oxygen/hydrogen, or basic food pellets, and replicate out a steak dinner)

4. Complex mechanical systems cannot easily be replicated (you can replicate a 20th century knife or pistol, but not a phaser)

5. Living things cannot be replicated.

For what it is worth, there is an article here that gives some canon details of what it can and can't do.  In the end, you are right on point 1 and 5, but apparently it can take any matter and transform it into any other matter (with a few notable exceptions), as long as the pattern in stored in memory.  The limitations appear to be memory storage and power requirements, it taking a lot more power to transform more complex substances.  But, heck, we can hook the fucker up to a matter/anti-matter power plant, so that can't be too much of a limitation, right?

Quote from: RockViperNow that you mention it I bet there is a Trek tech manual somewhere that explains how replicator tech works in the trek universe (probably in nauseating detail). It would probably be easier to throw out the treknology explanation and make up your own rules rather than design an economic system that would work with replicators all over the place.

You have a point in that the core issue is that the writers didn't really think these things through very well, and one approach is to simply make up some gibberish and do some hand waving.  Which is cool, but I kinda like designing economic systems...

Doesn't everyone? :haw:


TGA

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaOh, really...?

I personally hold you responsible for making me laugh my monkey ass off and waking up my wife this morning, sir.  The pain that I experienced will be visited upon you in a white hot punishment that will make 24 hours of Britney seem like a little slice of heaven...that was some seriously funny shit!

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaLadies and gentlemen, I believe we're onto something.

One thing that springs to mind is the old Traveller:The New Era (Heavens forfend he mention it's dreaded name!) idea of a Technologically Elevated Dictator (TED).  A Federation citizen with sociopathic tendencies and possessing a portable replicator (seen here), a hand phaser, and a holodeck could be a dangerous threat to any less developed society.  They could set themselves up in lavish luxury and power, and even become as a god on truly primitive worlds.  On space flight/pre-replicator worlds such people would still be very dangerous, able to manipulate whole economies for their pleasure.

I am sure that there would be several famous example of just such things happening, which would serve to justify the Federation's strict policies.  The threat of technological and ideological "leakage" beyond the frontiers through breakaway groups like the Maquis could only be seen as a dangerous source of destabilization.

The Federation in the 24th Century has it pretty good.  Destabilization is something to be avoided at all costs.  As I recall the Maquis even got their hands on a dozen industrial-scale replicators when Eddington went over to them.  No wonder the Federation treated them as such a threat to order.


TGA

Quote from: KoltarUm....Guys??


They were never "explicit" about but there were many hints that Quark rented out his holosuites for "holographic prostitution" so to speak. Paramount was too skittish to let them be obvious about it.


After all , little 3/4ths Klingon Alexander was conceived while his parents were "getting it on" in a holodeck. (Go back and look at the episode, after the commercial break Worf & K'Ehleyr are putting their clothes back on...)

In a DS9 episode, Jeffrey Combs played a visiting alien that asked Quark to make a perfect holo-simulation of Major Kira  so he could ....fulfill his fantasies.  (That one ended with Dax rewriting the computer program...but thats another story)


SO, such things DO happen in that universe.


- Ed C.

I was only half-kidding.  I haven't seen a lot of the episodes that you referred to, but I vaguely recalled that creepy Barclay guy...how the hell did that twisted dude get through the "rigorous" Starfleet selection process, anyway?


TGA

Quote from: David ROkay just to add a little something to this discussion (and my campaign). How about some memorable lines from Trek

In space, all warriors are cold ones - General Chang (The Undiscovered Country)

Regards,
David R

KHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!

Sorry, couldn't help myself...

Ahem, how about this one from Kirk in the TOS episode "A Taste of Armageddon", which is one of my favorites.  It is a bit long, but I like it.

"All, right - it's instinctive. But the instinct can be fought. We're human beings, with the blood of a million savage years on our hands. But we can stop it! We can admit we're killers, but we're not going to kill today. That's all it takes. Knowing that you're not going to kill... today. Call Vendekar; I think you'll find them just as horrified, shocked, as appalled as you are -- willing to do anything to avoid the alternative I've given you; peace or utter destruction. It's up to you."

Non-interference, my ass!


TGA

Just FYI David, I pitched the "Star Trek Meets Battlestar Galactica" idea to my group last night, as well as the "Voyager Done Right" idea.  

They opted for a straight Sword & Sorcery "thieves guild" game using Reign.  It will be fun, but this thread was getting me jazzed about Star Trek again...[sigh]  


TGA

Quote from: David ROkay just to add a little something to this discussion (and my campaign). How about some memorable lines from Trek

Khan: "Kirk! You're still alive, old friend."
Kirk: "Still.  Old. Friend. You've managed to kill everyone else but like a poor marksman, you. Keep. Missing the target."

!i!

Quote from: The Good AssyrianYou have a point in that the core issue is that the writers didn't really think these things through very well, and one approach is to simply make up some gibberish and do some hand waving.  Which is cool, but I kinda like designing economic systems...

Doesn't everyone? :haw:


TGA

See I knew a trekkie somewhere had written up replicator technology (damn nerds ). Well there we go all our problems are solved, we expect a full economic system in Wiki form no later than Friday.