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Pen & Paper Roleplaying Central => Pen and Paper Roleplaying Games (RPGs) Discussion => Topic started by: zomben on October 23, 2012, 04:05:41 PM

Title: [Magic World] Let's talk about it!
Post by: zomben on October 23, 2012, 04:05:41 PM
So, some folks are aware of the "Magic World" game I've been putting together for Chaosium. It's a BRP-based fantasy game, using the core of the old Elric! rules and supplements, but stripped of Moorcockisms.

As the game's winding through the production cycle (I'm proofing layouts as they come across my desk), I thought I'd open the floor to questions about the game.

To start with, some background:

Here are the official CHaosium postings about the first two books:

Magic World: http://www.chaosium.com/article.php?story_id=508

Advanced Sorcery: http://www.chaosium.com/article.php?story_id=513

Here are a few interviews I've done about the game:

http://basicroleplaying.com/basic-roleplaying/another-magic-world-interview-2861/3/#post46733

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGaXMs3RQww

http://www.stormbringerrpg.com/?p=329

And forgive me if you see this thread pop up in different places. I'm going to post the same thing around a bit.

If you have any questions, let me know!
Title: [Magic World] Let's talk about it!
Post by: Spellslinging Sellsword on October 23, 2012, 04:26:14 PM
Quote from: zomben;594294As the game's winding through the production cycle (I'm proofing layouts as they come across my desk)

Any estimate on a release date?
Title: [Magic World] Let's talk about it!
Post by: Piestrio on October 23, 2012, 04:32:17 PM
Why should I play Magic World rather than AD&D 1e?

Seeing as I love AD&D.

What's the elevator pitch?

On another note what can I steal for AD&D?
Title: [Magic World] Let's talk about it!
Post by: The Butcher on October 23, 2012, 05:00:38 PM
Ben, your old school Chaosium credentials precede you, but still, it was very good to read the very informative interviews you've linked.

Being a fan of ye olde Stormbringer, my interest is defintely piqued, but the cold, hard truth is that I'm up to my ears in damn fine BRP-powered fantasy (as I've posted before (http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?t=23635)). I got myself a nice, shiny big copy of RQ6, and OQ is on the way, and my MRQII copy didn't stop working when I got RQ6 (though it's definitely looking a bit less sexy, a jilted middle sister of sorts).

So I'll ask a similar, albeit significantly different question to Piestrio's: why Magic World instead of Legend, or RQ6, or OpenQuest?

Advanced Sorcery looks great, though (Deep Magic sounds awesome! Was it pulled from the Bronze Grimoire?). How compatible is it going to be with the above-mentioned (Legend, RQ6, OQ)?
Title: [Magic World] Let's talk about it!
Post by: zomben on October 23, 2012, 05:02:59 PM
Quote from: ptingler;594307Any estimate on a release date?

I'm hearing end of this year, early 2013.  We're in the home stretch!

Quote from: Piestrio;594310Why should I play Magic World rather than AD&D 1e?

It's entirely possible you shouldn't! :D  If you love AD&D, and it works for you, no need to rock the boat.  No game is for everyone.

However, if you want a game that gives you that same feel of epic, sword & sorcery fantasy, but with a bit more freedom of mechanics, Magic World might be for you.

It uses the BRP system, and specifically the version of BRP found in Elric/Stormbringer. It uses a d100 roll to determine the results of most actions, and is skill-based rather than using class and levels to determine ability.

As in most BRP-based games, any creature found in the bestiary can be used as a PC. Want to play an orc, minotaur, centaur, dragon, giant, etc? Go for it. Further, there are rules for upgrading common animals to 'talking beasts'. One of the PCs I ran was an intelligent raven with sorcery.

Quote from: Piestrio;594310On another note what can I steal for AD&D?

Anything you want, I suppose. I've heard of people using the BRP/RQ skill system to bolt on to AD&D for years. There's a sample setting in the book you cold use. Stats are handled differently enough that you'd have to do some work to convert over monsters, I suppose.
Title: [Magic World] Let's talk about it!
Post by: K Peterson on October 23, 2012, 05:13:00 PM
Here's a couple questions:

Title: [Magic World] Let's talk about it!
Post by: zomben on October 23, 2012, 05:14:43 PM
Quote from: The Butcher;594319Ben, your old school Chaosium credentials precede you, but still, it was very good to read the very informative interviews you've linked.

Great!

Quote from: The Butcher;594319So I'll ask a similar, albeit significantly different question to Piestrio's: why Magic World instead of Legend, or RQ6, or OpenQuest?

I'll admit to being a fan of all those games.  Indeed, for the last 6 months, I've been running through the classic Gloranthan material using OpenQuest.

What I love about them, is that there's a great ability to cross-polinate. Back in the day, I used to do the same thing with all my Chaosium fantasy games. I'd steal bits from RQIII, Stormbringer, Elfquest, whatever, and blend them together willy-nilly.

So, first off, if you're a fan of the BRP fantasy in general, I'd encourage you to look at MW first to see if there's stuff you can use in your other games.  Like Legend/RQ6, but think the take on cultural skill bonuses is too complex? Take a look at the way it's done in MW. Or bolt the "Talking Beasts" rules from MW on to OpenQuest. Or, rejigger the combat skills in Magic World to use the three simple combat skills in OQ.

That being said, Magic World is a slightly different beast than OQ/RQ6. For example, there's only one magic system in it. I culled -all- of the Elric/Stormbring sourcebooks and pulled all of the Sorcery material together in one place. Freeing up room by removing Elemental and Demon magic, gave me room to put in the seafaring rules from "Seas of Fate", plus a greatly expanded bestiary (indeed, almost the entire RQIII monster book was converted over and dropped in).

Really, what I tried to do with Magic World was to pull all the material from various BRP sources you'd need to create a complete, self-contained fantasy RPG. While there are supplements planned, you should have every thing you'll need to run cool epic S&S games right out of the book.

Quote from: The Butcher;594319Advanced Sorcery looks great, though (Deep Magic sounds awesome! Was it pulled from the Bronze Grimoire?). How compatible is it going to be with the above-mentioned (Legend, RQ6, OQ)?

Advanced Sorcery is everything from the Bronze Grimoire that didn't make it into the Magic World core rules. So, Necromancy, Runes, etc. Also, it's got the Demon and Elemental magic that wasn't included in the core. Deep Magic is the "Eastern Magic" from Unknown East.  It's also got Herbalism from Melnibone (though I think it was called, "Drugs" in the Melnibone book), and some other bits and bobs from here and there.

I'm sure you'd have little trouble using the magic material from MW with your OQ/RQ games.
Title: [Magic World] Let's talk about it!
Post by: zomben on October 23, 2012, 05:16:59 PM
Quote from: K Peterson;594331Do you expect to be producing adventures or an extensive campaign for Magic World?

There is currently a small setting book, with adventures in the works. Think "Keep on the Borderlands" with half a dozen starter scenarios included. This is set in the Southern Reaches setting introduced in the core game, but could be dropped into any setting.

Quote from: K Peterson;594331Will Magic World use the Resistance Table or specific skills in the case of opposed tests (of strength, perseverance, resistance to disease, etc.)?

If I'm reading you correctly, it uses the Resistance Table.  Opposed skills are used for things like Hiding/Searching.
Title: [Magic World] Let's talk about it!
Post by: zomben on October 23, 2012, 05:19:36 PM
I should also point out quickly, that I'm not an actual Chaosium employee. I'm working on the MW books as a freelance editor, but it's my baby, so I'm happy to talk about it.
Title: [Magic World] Let's talk about it!
Post by: K Peterson on October 23, 2012, 05:22:38 PM
Quote from: zomben;594335If I'm reading you correctly, it uses the Resistance Table.  Opposed skills are used for things like Hiding/Searching.

Thanks. I was referring to the skills in OpenQuest, MRQ2, and RQ6 like: Persistence, Resilience, or Brawn that substitute for the Resistance Table.
Title: [Magic World] Let's talk about it!
Post by: zomben on October 23, 2012, 05:28:25 PM
Nope, for those it uses the Resistance table.
Title: [Magic World] Let's talk about it!
Post by: mhensley on October 23, 2012, 05:54:56 PM
Why does chaosium take so damn long to produce anything?  Probably by the time this actually comes out, I'll have long forgotten about it.

How generic is this?  I've looked at rq and oq and they both look very slanted towards sword and sandal fantasy where everyone casts spells.  I want a flavor of brp that does western medieval fantasy with distinct wizards out of the box.
Title: [Magic World] Let's talk about it!
Post by: zomben on October 23, 2012, 06:02:40 PM
Quote from: mhensley;594366Why does chaosium take so damn long to produce anything?  Probably by the time this actually comes out, I'll have long forgotten about it.

Because they're thee or four full-time people, and a bunch of freelancers.

Quote from: mhensley;594366How generic is this?  I've looked at rq and oq and they both look very slanted towards sword and sandal fantasy where everyone casts spells.  I want a flavor of brp that does western medieval fantasy with distinct wizards out of the box.

Out of the box, in Magic World you've got to have a pretty high POW (16+) in order to be able to use spells.  There are options noted to change that to make magic more accessible, but bog-standard MW means that focused Sorcerers are not that common, and very few people 'dabble' in magic.

As far as the 'sword and sandal' comment, MW doesn't lean too far that way.  I'm using it right now to run a game based on dark ages/medieval Britain, with lots of weird celtic myth-inspired fantasy thrown in.

In summation, it's more Elric than Perseus.
Title: [Magic World] Let's talk about it!
Post by: mhensley on October 23, 2012, 09:32:31 PM
Quote from: zomben;594374Because they're thee or four full-time people, and a bunch of freelancers.



Out of the box, in Magic World you've got to have a pretty high POW (16+) in order to be able to use spells.  There are options noted to change that to make magic more accessible, but bog-standard MW means that focused Sorcerers are not that common, and very few people 'dabble' in magic.

As far as the 'sword and sandal' comment, MW doesn't lean too far that way.  I'm using it right now to run a game based on dark ages/medieval Britain, with lots of weird celtic myth-inspired fantasy thrown in.

In summation, it's more Elric than Perseus.


Thanks, that sounds pretty promising.  What version of Elric or Stormbringer would you say MW is closest to?
Title: [Magic World] Let's talk about it!
Post by: K Peterson on October 23, 2012, 09:47:19 PM
Are there any guidelines for domain management, or mass combat in Magic World? I don't recall them being present in Elric!, but perhaps the memory is escaping me...

And, does it use the same experience check system used by Elric!, CoC, etc.?
Title: [Magic World] Let's talk about it!
Post by: Patrick on October 23, 2012, 10:06:49 PM
Seconding the mass combat rules question.
Title: [Magic World] Let's talk about it!
Post by: zomben on October 24, 2012, 12:07:30 AM
Quote from: mhensley;594444Thanks, that sounds pretty promising.  What version of Elric or Stormbringer would you say MW is closest to?

Elric, with updates from the BGB, and a few fiddles and tweaks of my own.

Quote from: K Peterson;594452Are there any guidelines for domain management, or mass combat in Magic World? I don't recall them being present in Elric!, but perhaps the memory is escaping me...

Sadly, no.  But I have been talking with a guy about putting together rules for just those two things, and hopefully they'll get into a supplement at some point.

Quote from: mhensley;594444And, does it use the same experience check system used by Elric!, CoC, etc.?

For the most part.  The mechanic is the same, but I made an effort to tie it to your occupation more than has been done in the past. Choosing an occupation at the beginning of the game means that the training you received in being a (scholar, warrior, hunter, whatever) gives you a better knowledge of the skills of that occupation, meaning you're better at increasing those skills through experience.
Title: [Magic World] Let's talk about it!
Post by: mhensley on October 24, 2012, 06:37:22 AM
Quote from: zomben;594479Sadly, no.  But I have been talking with a guy about putting together rules for just those two things, and hopefully they'll get into a supplement at some point.

The Runequest Empires book from Mongoose sounds like it covers this and it would probably be easy to convert from.
Title: [Magic World] Let's talk about it!
Post by: zomben on October 24, 2012, 10:21:08 AM
Yeah, that should work in the meantime.
Title: [Magic World] Let's talk about it!
Post by: Sigmund on October 24, 2012, 12:20:21 PM
Sounds like this is going to be another "must get" line for me. I still have my 2e Stormbringer box set, and I recently re-acquired the 2e of Elfquest, but I'm going to want this modern iteration of the Elric game in a more generic form simply cuz it sounds awesome :) Please keep us updated on the release schedule.

As for a question, mine is...

How different is MW ging to be from base BRP (the gold book)? I've been waffling about whether I want to look into BRP with some magic rules to run a more urban fantasy, Dresden Files (not a fan of the Fate version much, although it's not horrible) style game. Might use the Bloodshadows setting. Been thinking of just using OQ with rules from The Company, but I don't know much in the way of details about Chaosium's basic BRP.
Title: [Magic World] Let's talk about it!
Post by: zomben on October 24, 2012, 03:28:01 PM
Jason used Elric! as the basis for creating the BGB, and then started bolting on options from the other BRP games. For Magic World, I kept to the core of Elric!, and added only a few changes here and there.

If you want to run Urban Fantasy with BRP, your best bet is to use the BGB and bolt on the upcoming Enlightened Magic (http://www.chaosium.com/article.php?story_id=512) supplement. Enlightened Magic was drawn from the Nephilim game, which was a complete urban fantasy pastiche.
Title: [Magic World] Let's talk about it!
Post by: Dirk Remmecke on October 25, 2012, 11:28:33 AM
Quote from: zomben;594634Enlightened Magic was drawn from the Nephilim game, which was a complete urban fantasy pastiche.

Was it drawn from the Chaosium version of Nephilim or the French original?
Title: [Magic World] Let's talk about it!
Post by: zomben on October 25, 2012, 11:46:05 AM
The Chaosium one. Specifically, it's a new version of the Sorcery magic as seen in "Liber Ka", plus new material on Alchemy which was intended for publication in the Nephilim line, but never published.  All revised, rethought, etc.
Title: [Magic World] Let's talk about it!
Post by: Sigmund on October 25, 2012, 02:25:03 PM
Quote from: zomben;594634Jason used Elric! as the basis for creating the BGB, and then started bolting on options from the other BRP games. For Magic World, I kept to the core of Elric!, and added only a few changes here and there.

If you want to run Urban Fantasy with BRP, your best bet is to use the BGB and bolt on the upcoming Enlightened Magic (http://www.chaosium.com/article.php?story_id=512) supplement. Enlightened Magic was drawn from the Nephilim game, which was a complete urban fantasy pastiche.

Good deal, I'll hafta look into that. Thanks :)
Title: [Magic World] Let's talk about it!
Post by: mhensley on October 25, 2012, 05:09:10 PM
Could you post some example starting characters?
Title: [Magic World] Let's talk about it!
Post by: zomben on October 25, 2012, 05:50:18 PM
A 'mostly by the book' character I just made up for Magic World. By "mostly" I mean that it's almost entirely by the book, with a few houserules/options turned on. I'll italicize anything that's non-standard, and explain it in parentheses.

Name: Roac
Species: Human Age: 27 Gender: Male
Birthplace: Windriver Valley (from my homebrew campaign setting)
Culture: Chiefdom
Occupation: Hunter
Looks/Attitude: Guarded expression, piercing eyes

Allegiance: Light - 15, Balance - 25, Shadow - 5

STR: 14
CON: 15
SIZ: 13
INT: 15
POW: 16
DEX: 17
APP: 13
(In my own campaign, I allow all PCs to roll their characteristics by dropping a die, and adding the max value instead. So, for humans, this means all characteristics are 2D6+6)

Hit Points: 28 (I use the 'Heroic Hit Points' option, which makes HP the total of SIZ+CON

Skills:
Physical + 7: Brawl 27, Climb 47, Dodge 39, Jump 32, *Ride 52, Swim 32, Throw 52, Wrestle 32
Communication+7: Bargain 22, Disguise 22, Fast Talk 22, Oratory 32
Knowledge +8: Evaluate 23, *Nature 83, Navigate 38, Own Language 83, Physik 38, World Lore 23
Manipulation +8: Conceal Object 34, Hide 29, Move Quietly 69, Pick Lock 14, Repair/Devise 77, Sailing 24, Trap 34
Perception +8: Insight 23, Listen 43, Sense 63, Search 28, *Track 48

Weapons:
Broadsword, 62%, d8+1+d4
Longbow, 79%, 2D6+1+d2

Armor: Leather and Rings - d6+1/d6
Shield: Small, 22%, 20 Hit Points

Spells: Raven Form (4) - Only able to cast it on himself (The Hunter profession normally can only offer 3 levels of magic. I -really- wanted to make a guy who can turn into a raven, so I took the 4-pt spell, but altered it so he can only cast it on himself.)

Raven Form
STR: 2
CON: 5
SIZ: 2
INT: 15
POW: 16
DEX: 28

Skills: Dodge 80, Search 100, Sense 100
Weapons: Claw, 40%, 1d2; Bite, 25% 1d3
Title: [Magic World] Let's talk about it!
Post by: zomben on October 25, 2012, 05:52:01 PM
Also, by 'only offer 3 levels of magic' I should note that not everyone in the game starts with magic. Your PC has to have a POW of at least 16 to be able to cast magic, but each profession has a list of 'typical spells' for those characters that meet the POW requirement, and the GM says it's okay to start with magic.
Title: [Magic World] Let's talk about it!
Post by: mhensley on October 25, 2012, 11:18:41 PM
Thanks, looks good.

Could you explain the allegiance stats?  

Also, what is the default method of stat generation?  2d6+6 is way overpowered for me.  Although I'd have to think that getting a 16 power for magic use would be kinda hard otherwise.  Even 4d6 drop one doesn't give you a 16 that often.

The power level of the stats looks pretty good to me.  I was worried that it would be more like Elric where they expect everyone to start off with a 100%+ in a weapon.  Is the 22% in shield a typo?  If not, it seems like a weird choice to take one and not put any points into to. ;)
Title: [Magic World] Let's talk about it!
Post by: zomben on October 26, 2012, 12:36:18 PM
Allegiance shows your character's path along three philosophical axes in the game. Shadow, Balance, and Light are simply abstract representations of "bad", "neutral", and "good".  As you perform deeds of various types in the game, you'll score points for each, and as the scores get higher, you can decide to become a "Champion" of one of the forces.

These are -extremely- abstract in the core game. However, in a future supplement, we've got a great article on using those three axes to create customised religions, cults, etc.

Default stats for a human PC are rolled on 3D6, except for 2D6+6 for SIZ and INT.
Title: [Magic World] Let's talk about it!
Post by: Jason D on October 26, 2012, 07:14:50 PM
Quote from: zomben;594634Jason used Elric! as the basis for creating the BGB, and then started bolting on options from the other BRP games.

Actually, the core of the BRP gold book rules was RQ3, supplemented by Elric! and Call of Cthulhu. And then all of the other stuff.
Title: [Magic World] Let's talk about it!
Post by: Sigmund on October 28, 2012, 06:43:34 PM
Quote from: jdurall;595293Actually, the core of the BRP gold book rules was RQ3, supplemented by Elric! and Call of Cthulhu. And then all of the other stuff.

What would you say are the biggest differences between, say BRP Gold and MRQ2 (and also Magic World, if you'd be willing to throw out some details zomben), other than the magic subsystems that is. I'm interested in things like the differences between character creation/options, the combat system, skill use, character improvement.... that sort of stuff. Thank you for chiming in brother :)
Title: [Magic World] Let's talk about it!
Post by: arminius on October 28, 2012, 09:55:30 PM
Okay, watching the World Series so I can't read the whole thread, but I have a question--why are you calling this Magic World? It's just a nod to an obscure old BRP product, part of Worlds of Wonder. Why not use a more evocative and colorful name? Or something more straightforward like "BRP Fantasy"?

Also, if this has already been answer here, apologies, but if I've got RQIII, BGB, SB 3 & 4, Elric! (including most of the supplements including the Bronze Grimoire) and MG Elric, what tools does this add for me?
Title: [Magic World] Let's talk about it!
Post by: zomben on October 29, 2012, 12:42:51 AM
Quote from: Elliot Wilen;595697Okay, watching the World Series so I can't read the whole thread, but I have a question--why are you calling this Magic World? It's just a nod to an obscure old BRP product, part of Worlds of Wonder. Why not use a more evocative and colorful name? Or something more straightforward like "BRP Fantasy"?

The subhead for the BGB is "Adventure Roleplaying in Different Worlds" (or something; don't have it to hand).

"X-Worlds" is going to be something you'll be seeing more of in the future.

Quote from: Elliot Wilen;595697Also, if this has already been answer here, apologies, but if I've got RQIII, BGB, SB 3 & 4, Elric! (including most of the supplements including the Bronze Grimoire) and MG Elric, what tools does this add for me?

A handfull of rules tweaks, and all the stuff from Elric! and a bunch of bits from RQIII all shuffled together.  It also gives you a way to get all your players a copy of the rules without scouring used game and auction sites for the old books.

I'm going to be totally honest, if you already own all that stuff, you probably don't need Magic World. But, I sure would appreciate it if you bought a copy. :D
Title: [Magic World] Let's talk about it!
Post by: arminius on October 29, 2012, 08:57:27 AM
Thanks, I suppose thinking of the players this might be a better buy for them.

It probably won't affect my buying decision but I'm curious about the critical hit table from SB/Elric. ISTR that it was genericized and toned down a bit in the BGB. Did you restore it to something
more vivid for this book?
Title: [Magic World] Let's talk about it!
Post by: zomben on October 29, 2012, 11:53:22 AM
Quote from: Elliot Wilen;595761Thanks, I suppose thinking of the players this might be a better buy for them.

It probably won't affect my buying decision but I'm curious about the critical hit table from SB/Elric. ISTR that it was genericized and toned down a bit in the BGB. Did you restore it to something
more vivid for this book?

I used the tables right out of Elric! pretty much as-is.  The only one we jiggered at all was the combat results table, to bring it more in line with the BGB, and clarify things a bit.
Title: [Magic World] Let's talk about it!
Post by: mhensley on November 14, 2012, 09:04:16 PM
Zomben posted the cover over on rpg.net-

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8198/8186788444_da343fff8c.jpg)
Title: [Magic World] Let's talk about it!
Post by: One Horse Town on November 14, 2012, 09:08:07 PM
I thought Zomben hated this place.
Title: [Magic World] Let's talk about it!
Post by: RPGPundit on November 16, 2012, 02:01:22 AM
Quote from: One Horse Town;600085I thought Zomben hated this place.

Does he? Well, a lot of people who've said a lot of shit about theRPGsite over the years seem to be slinking over here lately, tail between their legs, not wanting to be left out of either conversation (in the case of some) or the chance to shill their products in an industry-friendlier environment than rpg.net (in the case of others).

To all of whom I say: I told you so.

RPGPundit
Title: [Magic World] Let's talk about it!
Post by: urbwar on November 16, 2012, 05:00:39 AM
Quote from: One Horse Town;600085I thought Zomben hated this place.

He started this thread, and has been active in it. If he hates this place, he sure fooled me
Title: [Magic World] Let's talk about it!
Post by: zomben on November 16, 2012, 06:08:01 PM
Quote from: One Horse Town;600085I thought Zomben hated this place.

I don't hate this place. I just have a very low opinion of some of the more vocal posters here, and so I don't spend much time here.

Quote from: RPGPundit;600288Does he? Well, a lot of people who've said a lot of shit about theRPGsite over the years seem to be slinking over here lately, tail between their legs, not wanting to be left out of either conversation (in the case of some) or the chance to shill their products in an industry-friendlier environment than rpg.net (in the case of others).

To all of whom I say: I told you so.

RPGPundit

You really have a vastly over-inflated opinion of yourself, you know?
Title: [Magic World] Let's talk about it!
Post by: One Horse Town on November 16, 2012, 08:26:31 PM
Quote from: zomben;600447I don't hate this place. I just have a very low opinion of some of the more vocal posters here, and so I don't spend much time here.


Name names!
Title: [Magic World] Let's talk about it!
Post by: The Traveller on November 16, 2012, 08:29:47 PM
Quote from: zomben;600447You really have a vastly over-inflated opinion of yourself, you know?
Try saying that over on rpgnet and see how far you get.

Liberating, isn't it?
Title: [Magic World] Let's talk about it!
Post by: One Horse Town on November 16, 2012, 08:36:56 PM
Quote from: The Traveller;600467Try saying that over on rpgnet and see how far you get.

Liberating, isn't it?

If he said Pundit has a vastly over-inflated opinion of himself at RPGnet, he'd probably get a Bronze medal or something.
Title: [Magic World] Let's talk about it!
Post by: K Peterson on November 16, 2012, 09:17:04 PM
Wow. That cover is quite over the top. And, not that appealing to me - maybe because it reminds me of the cover from a Mongoose Publishing product, not something that Chaosium would release.

The guts of Magic World sound intriguing - because I'm a fan of Elric! and RuneQuest3 - and maybe I'll buy it. But it'd be pdf-only because I wouldn't want a print product with that cover on my shelves.
Title: [Magic World] Let's talk about it!
Post by: zomben on November 16, 2012, 09:25:00 PM
Quote from: K Peterson;600476Wow. That cover is quite over the top. And, not that appealing to me - maybe because it reminds me of the cover from a Mongoose Publishing product, not something that Chaosium would release.

The guts of Magic World sound intriguing - because I'm a fan of Elric! and RuneQuest3 - and maybe I'll buy it. But it'd be pdf-only because I wouldn't want a print product with that cover on my shelves.

Well, diff'rent strokes and all.
Title: [Magic World] Let's talk about it!
Post by: The Traveller on November 17, 2012, 04:40:54 PM
Quote from: One Horse Town;600468If he said Pundit has a vastly over-inflated opinion of himself at RPGnet, he'd probably get a Bronze medal or something.
Its a bit depressing actually, occasionally those who come to this site while simultaneously having an active account on rpgnet can sometimes clearly be seen looking over their shoulders for the rpgnet mods. I mean what, are these people eleven years old and in a playground or something? (Wo)man up and act like mature adults!

Quote from: K Peterson;600476Wow. That cover is quite over the top. And, not that appealing to me - maybe because it reminds me of the cover from a Mongoose Publishing product, not something that Chaosium would release.
I don't know, I quite like the cover. Really reminds me of something though, a Pacific islander giant with skulls for a necklace, I feel sure I've seen something similar before.

Anyway I've looked into this and I'm reaching for what makes it new or unusual. Medieval Britain with weird Celtic stuff - what makes this any different from a thousand similar game ideas?
Title: [Magic World] Let's talk about it!
Post by: zomben on November 17, 2012, 05:02:02 PM
Quote from: The Traveller;600599Anyway I've looked into this and I'm reaching for what makes it new or unusual. Medieval Britain with weird Celtic stuff - what makes this any different from a thousand similar game ideas?

I should point out that the 'setting' chapter of the game is the last chapter. Up to that point, the game itself is generic fantasy ala BRP.  The setting is an example of what you can do with the game.

WHat makes it different?  Well, it is definitely british/celtic in feel. One of the things we decided to do in creating this setting, was to keep it small, and close-up. Essentially all we've produced is an area about 180 miles across. Two feuding dynasties are vying for power over the area, and then there's this weird, mysterious fey power that's returning from the distant past, and causing all sorts of trouble.

So, the setting is designed to tell stories on a localized scale.  You won't be crossing continents to save the world. But, saving your local area from marauding reivers is a big deal. We're talking hometown heroes here, Robin Hood sort of stuff.

That being said, we've been purposefully vague about the lands outside the Southern Reaches.  You could drop it into your own setting, or just play it as-is.

Will it be for everyone? No, probably not.  But I like it.
Title: [Magic World] Let's talk about it!
Post by: The Traveller on November 17, 2012, 05:11:58 PM
Quote from: zomben;600602WHat makes it different?  Well, it is definitely british/celtic in feel. One of the things we decided to do in creating this setting, was to keep it small, and close-up. Essentially all we've produced is an area about 180 miles across. Two feuding dynasties are vying for power over the area, and then there's this weird, mysterious fey power that's returning from the distant past, and causing all sorts of trouble.
Sounds a bit like that show Merlin, which I love although I don't know why they insist on portraying the evil overlady as Irish, even if she does a good job at it. :D Does it have a central focal point like excalibur or is it a portrayal of daily life and the political situation?
Title: [Magic World] Let's talk about it!
Post by: zomben on November 17, 2012, 05:41:38 PM
Quote from: The Traveller;600604Sounds a bit like that show Merlin, which I love although I don't know why they insist on portraying the evil overlady as Irish, even if she does a good job at it. :D Does it have a central focal point like excalibur or is it a portrayal of daily life and the political situation?

It was actually directly inspired by the old "Robin of Sherwood" TV series. I liked the idea of having a relatively small area for the PCs to adventure in.  They can spend their entire career in the Southern Reaches, or wander out of the boundaries of the setting and do whatever they want.

There are a number of elements that could become the focus of a campaign, but there's no one central "you must do this!" of any sort. Whatever plot points you and your group decide to run with will decide how your game goes.
Title: [Magic World] Let's talk about it!
Post by: RPGPundit on November 18, 2012, 01:46:54 PM
Quote from: zomben;600447You really have a vastly over-inflated opinion of yourself, you know?

Of myself as the guy who made this site, guided its policy (a policy that rpg.net mods and their clique claimed was "impossible") and then shepherded its growth until it has become not only self-sustaining, but also incredibly successful, in spite of everyone who claimed I was going to crash and burn?  I don't think its very over-inflated given the actual track record.

RPGPundit
Title: [Magic World] Let's talk about it!
Post by: Dirk Remmecke on November 19, 2012, 01:19:51 PM
Quote from: zomben;600607It was actually directly inspired by the old "Robin of Sherwood" TV series.

Now you've got me interested.

I would never have guessed from the aggressive, non-sublte, non-mystical, non-Herne-the-Hunter-in-the-mist, non-shooting-burning-arrows-in-the-lake, non-color-filter-posing-as-late-afternoon-sky cover artwork.
Title: [Magic World] Let's talk about it!
Post by: The Traveller on November 19, 2012, 01:23:47 PM
People generally are much more interested in setting than system.
Title: [Magic World] Let's talk about it!
Post by: zomben on November 19, 2012, 01:33:33 PM
Quote from: Dirk Remmecke;600921Now you've got me interested.

I would never have guessed from the aggressive, non-sublte, non-mystical, non-Herne-the-Hunter-in-the-mist, non-shooting-burning-arrows-in-the-lake, non-color-filter-posing-as-late-afternoon-sky cover artwork.

Well, take a look at the game when it comes out, and see what you think. :D

Quote from: The Traveller;600924People generally are much more interested in setting than system.

True. But, there are also a lot of BRP fans who've been clamoring for Chaosium to do a new fantasy-focused rules set for a long time now. In talking to lots of them, reading their posts and blogs, I determined that most BRP fans prefer to use their home setting, or convert over to another setting.

And so, I made the decision to keep the rules setting-agnostic, but then include a starter setting in the book as well. This setting, "the Southern Reaches" will see further development, for those who're interested. We've already got a small-ish book in the works for it that includes a 'campaign start point' as well as half a dozen adventures (think Keep on the Borderlands/Village of Hommelet style).

Also, I've made sure to include a little bit of Southern Reaches content in a couple of the other books in the works (there's a few great bits on it in the Chronicler's Companion). If it looks like people like the setting, I'm pretty sure there'll be more developed for it.
Title: [Magic World] Let's talk about it!
Post by: Sigmund on November 19, 2012, 03:39:16 PM
Quote from: zomben;600602I should point out that the 'setting' chapter of the game is the last chapter. Up to that point, the game itself is generic fantasy ala BRP.  The setting is an example of what you can do with the game.

WHat makes it different?  Well, it is definitely british/celtic in feel. One of the things we decided to do in creating this setting, was to keep it small, and close-up. Essentially all we've produced is an area about 180 miles across. Two feuding dynasties are vying for power over the area, and then there's this weird, mysterious fey power that's returning from the distant past, and causing all sorts of trouble.

So, the setting is designed to tell stories on a localized scale.  You won't be crossing continents to save the world. But, saving your local area from marauding reivers is a big deal. We're talking hometown heroes here, Robin Hood sort of stuff.

That being said, we've been purposefully vague about the lands outside the Southern Reaches.  You could drop it into your own setting, or just play it as-is.

Will it be for everyone? No, probably not.  But I like it.

Sounds like it might be a good fit for converting Tuala Morn to BRP, which is something I've been thinking of doing for a long time. I like Hero 5e, but I love BRP more, and I think BRP/RQ fits Tuala Morn better without as much work.
Title: [Magic World] Let's talk about it!
Post by: Kaiu Keiichi on November 19, 2012, 03:58:28 PM
Hey Zomben, good to hear from ya.

How easy would it be to convert Magic World magic systems to RQ6 for non-Glorantha settings?
Title: [Magic World] Let's talk about it!
Post by: crkrueger on November 19, 2012, 08:58:10 PM
Quote from: Kaiu Keiichi;600968Hey Zomben, good to hear from ya.

How easy would it be to convert Magic World magic systems to RQ6 for non-Glorantha settings?

I'm interested as well, since that would be the reason I bought it.  :D
Title: [Magic World] Let's talk about it!
Post by: zomben on November 19, 2012, 11:40:56 PM
Quote from: Sigmund;600965Sounds like it might be a good fit for converting Tuala Morn to BRP, which is something I've been thinking of doing for a long time. I like Hero 5e, but I love BRP more, and I think BRP/RQ fits Tuala Morn better without as much work.

I'm only cursorily familiar with Tuala Morn.  I'll have to check it out.

Quote from: Kaiu Keiichi;600968How easy would it be to convert Magic World magic systems to RQ6 for non-Glorantha settings?

I doubt it'd be all that difficult.  The Sorcery from the core rules of MW is a simple MP-powered spell list.  It uses Grimoires and Free INT to store all the spells.  That's pretty similar to Common Magic (or whatever it's called now) in RQ6.  MW Sorcery doesn't have a skill roll attached to it, but you could add that in easily, or leave it out.

Considering the cross-pollination of BRP systems and RQ6 is so easy in general, I doubt it'd be difficult at all.
Title: [Magic World] Let's talk about it!
Post by: zomben on November 20, 2012, 06:17:16 PM
In case anyone's interested, I just did a big Q&A session via IRC about Magic World.  The transcript of it can be found here: http://gmshoe.blogspot.com/2012/11/ben-monroe-magic-world-q-log.html
Title: [Magic World] Let's talk about it!
Post by: Sigmund on November 21, 2012, 09:48:09 AM
Quote from: zomben;601099I'm only cursorily familiar with Tuala Morn.  I'll have to check it out.




Tuala Morn (http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/24822/Tuala-Morn---PDF?it=1&) a nice setting with a strong Celtic flavor, and it would be useable on it's own, or dropped into another setting. I tried posting the link, but it won't let ya lok unless you're registered and logged in. I'll post the reviews into spoiler windows in this post...

Spoiler
Tuala Morn
Here’s our back-cover text describing TM:

A LAND OF CELTIC WONDER

A land of wondrous adventure amid green hills and dark forests awaits you: Tuala Morn. It’s a place of subtle Celtic magic and bold Celtic warriors, of capricious faerie-folk and wicked trolls, of clan-feuds and cattle-raids, of forest-gods and river-spirits. Ten years have passed since the death of High King Davaine left the realm leaderless, and land and people suffer for it — king fights with king for supremacy, the druidic faith of the Hundred Children vies with the priests of the Golden Temple for worshippers, and Vulkring raiders harry the coasts. There’s work here for heroes... heroes like you.

All this and more you can find in Tuala Morn, which includes:

—complete information about the history, culture, and customs of the Tualans

—a thorough kingdom-by-kingdom review of people, places, things, and events to interest your heroes

—character creation guidelines, including a dozen Professional Package Deals for characters like Bards, Druids, and Wizards, and rules for the amazing Feats performed by spear-wielding Tualan warriors

—Tualan magic, with rules for learning, casting, and using over 100 spells in a unique system of magic

—the Tualan Bestiary, including character sheets for dozens of faeries and faerie creatures

—a Gamemastering chapter including secret information not available to the players, plot seeds, and much more

Raise high your spear and keep your wits about you... it’s time for adventure in Tuala Morn!


ISBN: 1-58366-100-0
SKU: DOJHERO509
Price: $29.99 US

Spoiler
Here’s a copy of ghost-angel’s review of TM. Feel free to post other reviews, or links to them, if you like!

The Upside:

Tuala Morn is a Celtic Setting, but is not a historical setting. Instead it takes the feel of many of the legends, and stories of Celtic myth and history and creates a detailed setting.

Chapter 1 - The Chronicle Of The Tualans. The book opens with a rich and detailed history of the land of Tuala Morn, starting from before the Tualan's occupied the current land, their journey to it and the trials and tribulations then encountered once settling. It reads like a long bards tale, or two. Each portion of history is well written and one can easily imagine an old bard, or warrior, telling some portion of it to a youth growing up and learning the history of their land and their ancestry.

Chapter 2 - King And Commoner, Tualan Society And Culture. Chapter two covers the society of Tuala Morn in both breadth and detail. It goes over the hierarchy that the society follows. How war is conducted, on both small scale and large scale as well as various kinds of conflicts the kingdoms and clans engage in. A brief note on some universal Tualan Law, and how grievances are settled. Common trade practices and how trade affects Tualan society. Which arts and crafts the Tualan's engage in and hold in high regard. The Gods and Religion of Tuala Morn and how they interact with men, covering both religions that exist in the land. The Tualan calendar which touches on when the major holiday's are and what is done to celebrate them. Lastly it covers Geasa and how it works in Tualan society.

The chapter does an excellent job of painting a picture of an entire society. The text is filled with interesting side notes, anecdotes and short bits of Tualan history and lore. The entire chapter is engaging, and doesn't read like a rather dry series of notes like many other setting supplements I've read in the past. One thing I do like and feel the need to point out is that there are no Game Mechanics in this chapter, leaving one to read about the culture and society without distraction. Which is helpful to Hero Gamers and Non-Hero gamers alike.

Chapter 3 - The Ten Kingdoms, The Realms Of Tuala Morn. This chapter covers the geography, local history, political standing and important people of Tuala Morn. It starts with an overview of the entire realm, and a section on how the land itself is magical. After that is covers the eleven main areas (the High Kings lands and the Ten Kingdoms) and briefly goes over the islands surrounding the lands. Each of the Kingdoms starts with a short history of the kingdom itself, and then covers the major land features and people within the realm.

The entire chapter is punctuated with stories that explain why certain clans war, or how certain land features are seen or came to be. It does an excellent job of not only giving one the facts (this Kingdom's boundaries are here, this area is control by this Duke. . .) but explaining them through history and story. It very much keeps the feel started with the first two chapters, creating a rich tapestry of the setting and how it's various parts all interact. Again, with no game mechanics to get in the way at all you get nothing but a detailed setting with interesting people and events. The maps drawn in this chapter are well done and easy to read, giving immense detail without becoming too cluttered.

Chapter 4 - The Board Of Notables, Characters. This chapter covers the various aspects of character creation for the setting. It starts out with a discussion on the type of game being run, and the feel of the setting. This is a Low Fantasy setting with some specific cultural and societal guidelines on how different professions and people interact. It strongly suggests not altering the Package Deals presented, which is a good thing - to get a specific setting feel one should put guidelines down.

First we get the Racial Package Deals, the available races in Tuala Morn are all human, but there are two human variants and two half-human variants (Fae-blooded and Troll-blooded). All four are well balanced, the two human variants cover mostly the vastly different cultures and attitudes, and languages. The Fae-blooded and Troll-blooded contain some special traits of having the magical blood of these creatures running in your veins. Second are the Professional Package Deals covering the following professions and how they are uniquely seen in Tuala Morn: Barbarian, Bard, Cataran (outlaw), Druid (and five subtypes), Hunter, Knight, Noble, Priest Of The Golden Temple, Smith, Spearman (the highest warrior class of the Tualans), Warrior, and Wizard (with three subtypes). The setup here is that Tualan society is very well defined and classes, certain professions come with social obligations and limitations, as well as traits that only they can learn (for instance Smithing is a type of Magic in the setting, only a Smith can learn those skills), and thus is does create a form of class-based game within the setting. The Professional packages cover the possible motivations of each one, and other character creation notes such as possible Disadvantages, advancement, equipment, and the like. Everything you'd expect from a chapter on Character Creation. All the packages are interesting enough that they aren't merely flavors of the same thing, they do a good job of creating unique and interesting professions that are constantly referred to in the previous three chapters.

Next comes a discussion of the other aspects of the Hero System and how they work and interact within the setting. Starting with Skills we are provided with an Everyman Skill List, a familiar thing for Hero Gamers. And the chapter touches on how some skills work specifically within the setting. Three KS specific to Tuala Morn, the six languages and how they are related and a Martial Art specific to the Tualan Spearman, setting them further apart from your basic warrior. Perks and Talents are covered next, giving specifics of how some of them (such as Social Rank) work in the setting. We are introduced to one new Perk: Faerie Favor, which is a favorable relationship with the Fae and a flavorful addition to the setting. The Magic Perk is covered in detail in Chapter Five.

The next part of the chapter covers three aspects of the setting that really make it stand out. Beneficial Geasa, usually some ability that determines when and how the character can die. Feats which are unique talents of the Spearmen profession (and only they can buy them). Feats are divided into two kinds - Heroic and Superheroic depending on what style of game is being played (the GMs chapter covers the two styles in detail). and Gifts which are mostly flavor for a Character to make them stand out in Tualan Society. Both the Feats and Gifts are fun and interesting.

The final part of the Chapter covers Character Disadvantages, with a good discussion on Harmful Geasa and how they work within the setting and system. There is also an Equipment List, with prices, for the characters to reference. The last page of the chapter is Tualan Names, with most of the page dedicated to male names, female names are in the sidebar.

The chapter is pretty strait forward, covering Character Creation and how to have your characters fit the feel and theme of the Tuala Morn setting. It does a good solid job if you follow the guidelines, ignore them and you may be in danger of playing in yet another bland fantasy setting. Tuala Morn really has a rich and vivid style that can be a lot of fun if played up.

Chapter 5 - Tualan Magic. Magic in the setting is divided into three major types: Druid, Priest, and Smith magic. Only someone of the corresponding profession can learn the proper Magic. Druid Magic (Draicht) actually has three different kinds: Druid, Wizard and Witch, though the spells are the same for all three the Ranks (power level) are different. Priest spells are called Miracles, and Smith Craft has no special name but is the only way to create enchanted items in the setting. The Draicht are further divided into one of four kinds, corresponding to the seasons, adding even more detail and flavor to the system.

Most of the chapter is dedicated to Draichta spells (Druid/Wizard/Witch). The names and descriptions go a long way to make the spells feel part of the setting. Some of the spells are dedicated as Superheroic and only appropriate for that style of Tualan Campaign. The Priest Miracles, are covered next. There are few of them but they convey the nature of the Priest in the setting very well. Smith magic is covered next, the are the only profession that can create magical items, fitting the settings Low Magic Fantasy tone. The very last section of the chapter is a collection of unique and fantastic magic items that exist in the land.

The magic system used in the setting provides another solid example of how to use the Hero System to create a balanced and interesting magic system.

Chapter 6 - The Tualan Bestiary. The first part of the chapter covers the Fae in a very general sense, giving history, customs and information on various Fae myths from the real world. The rest of the chapter is dedicated to write-ups of various kinds of Faerie folk. There are some nice touches here that set this apart from a simply collection of monster write-ups. First, each one comes with the country of origin (Real World, not Tualan), alternate names the creature is known by in various places, and details on differing versions of the myth (such as the differences between a Scottish and Irish version of a similar creature). This allows you, if you need, to use the creatures outside the Tualan setting as fairies, or even in a more historical setting of Ireland. A few creatures are specific to Tuala Morn - namely the Dwarf, Troll and Giant. The last part of the chapter contains some NPC write-ups for use as adversaries against your PCs; a typical Cataran, Knight Of The Golden Temple, Pictoi Warrior (evil inhabitants of Tuala Morn that forever harry the Tualans), Vulkring Raider, and a Witch.

Chapter 7 - Beyond Tualan Shores. This short chapter covers the foreign lands that surround Tuala Morn and occasionally interact with it. Logres, the origin of the Priests Of The Golden Temple, the only other religion in Tuala Morn though minor compared to the Druids. Beyond that is Aquitaine, Kelmark, Vulkringland, and several others. This chapter pains a picture of a mythical Europe, drawing on many parallels but still creates a unique and interesting world. The similarities to our own world are a boon in helping Gamers get a better grasp of various cultures - but they are superficial at best and this should be kept in mind when gaming Tuala Morn. The setting is intended to take place inside Tuala Morn so this chapter is both short and without much detail.

Chapter 8 - The Bard's Portion, Gamemastering Tuala Morn. This is the GMs chapter. The first part covers setting up the style of the campaign, either Heroic or Superheroic, mimicking the truly fantastic feats of myth. It also provides seven ideas with which to focus a campaign on. The next part is the GM's Vault, which provides the truth behind some of the many rumors scattered through the rest of the text. In addition to those twenty-six plot seeds are provided, which can become single adventures or short story arcs in themselves. The chapter also has a write-up for the war chariot occasionally used by the Tualans.

The book ends with a translation dictionary of the Tualan tongue, providing both a Tualan to English and English to Tualan section. As well as a Bibliography containing both historical references and fictional references.

Tuala Morn provides us with a rich, detailed and exciting Celtic Myth setting to play in. Covering not just the land and society but the whole book is peppered with stories, tales and pieces of history. These elements really bring the setting into shape and make it more than a backdrop on which the Players run around. The setting book creates such a vivid picture the Players will want to interact with all aspects of Tuala Morn - especially the Fae which are literally everywhere. The Magic system presented is well balanced against non-magic using characters, and is presented in such a way as to be rare a well.

On top of that the art work and layout of the book itself reinforce this feeling, this is one of the few Hero books where the art work was more than pictures - it helped form the feeling of the setting.

The Downside:

There isn't a lot in the book that's an actual negative. If anything it would have been nice to get a little more on the culture of the Logres with whom the Tualan's have the most contact through trade and the Priests and Knights. But that would have distracted from the main focus of the book.

Chapter Eight I felt could have gone a little more into capturing the different feelings of a Heroic vs Superheroic campaign style. How to capture the feelings of wonder and within the Superheroic scope. Or possibly a little more on how to run a political campaign vs an adventuring one.

The Otherside:

How does this book do for Non-Hero System gamers? Excellent. The first three chapters alone are completely systemless, which is where most of the setting is presented. The Character and Magic chapters would require a bit of work to get the feeling into another system, but is easily doable.

Is the book worth the price tag? More than. A rich and detailed setting, interesting histories and people, faeries, it's got everything you could want out of a Celtic Myth theme. This is easily my favorite setting book presented by Hero Games so far, and quite possibly the best written and most engaging books released.
Title: [Magic World] Let's talk about it!
Post by: Dirk Remmecke on November 22, 2012, 03:16:05 AM
Quote from: Sigmund;601403Tuala Morn (http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/24822/Tuala-Morn---PDF?it=1&) a nice setting with a strong Celtic flavor, and it would be useable on it's own, or dropped into another setting. To get ya started (http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/63188-Tuala-Morn).

I am wary of any electronic product that doesn't show me sample pages, maps, etc...

Also, clicking on that second link gets me an error warning:
"You are not logged in or you do not have permission to access this page."
Title: [Magic World] Let's talk about it!
Post by: Sigmund on November 22, 2012, 09:41:20 PM
Quote from: Dirk Remmecke;601632I am wary of any electronic product that doesn't show me sample pages, maps, etc...

Also, clicking on that second link gets me an error warning:
"You are not logged in or you do not have permission to access this page."

Curses. I hate when they do that.
Title: [Magic World] Let's talk about it!
Post by: Sigmund on November 22, 2012, 09:47:57 PM
Quote from: Dirk Remmecke;601632I am wary of any electronic product that doesn't show me sample pages, maps, etc...

Also, clicking on that second link gets me an error warning:
"You are not logged in or you do not have permission to access this page."

Thanks for the info on that link, I fixed it best I could. Also, it doesn't look like Hero puts samples of any of their stuff up. I could give ya more info via PM if you're interested in more details. I posted the company blurb and a mini review in the spoiler tags of my last post too.
Title: [Magic World] Let's talk about it!
Post by: Bland Joe Dwarf on March 10, 2013, 09:49:49 PM
So, anyone in the know about Magic World's release date/estimated time ?
Title: [Magic World] Let's talk about it!
Post by: arminius on March 10, 2013, 10:11:07 PM
The PDF is already available.

Best place to get the latest info is probably here: http://basicroleplaying.com/magic-world/

EDIT: Ben says here (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?678740-What-system-would-you-use-for-a-fantasy-setting-without-magic&p=16525081#post16525081) that the print version will be out by the end of the month.
Title: [Magic World] Let's talk about it!
Post by: Jeffrywith1e on June 04, 2013, 01:11:24 PM
Quote from: zomben;595719The subhead for the BGB is "Adventure Roleplaying in Different Worlds" (or something; don't have it to hand).

"X-Worlds" is going to be something you'll be seeing more of in the future.

I could stand to hear more about... Worlds.