It seems to me that some of the most memorable and popular frequent-appearance NPCs I've saddled my players with are those that could vaguely and generally fall under the "loveable bastard" mold; or "the guy you love to hate", that sort of thing. Someone useful in certain ways but also tremendously irritating and problematic for the players.
I've found that however much players may complain about these characters, they also tend to remember these characters, and come back to them intentionally or unintentionally, far more often than other types of NPCs.
Now, this could be just because I'm somehow putting more emphasis on them, or I'm particularly good at playing them or making them interesting; or it could be because of my particular group of players. So naturally, I'm curious as to whether any other GMs have noticed the same thing in their games?
RPGPundit
Short answer: Yes
Longer answer: Many of my most memorable NPCs have been 'Loveable Bastards' of the kind you describe. I think it's probably because they stand out against the usual 'friend' and 'enemy' NPCs. There's no shortage of villains for the PCs to hate and to fight, and similarly there's no shortage of friendly and honest types to help out/be helped out by the PCs. What makes the loveable bastards so memorable is their combination of traits from both of the more common categories. They provoke more unique (and I think, more realistic) multi-faceted reactions from the players rather than just liking them or hating them exclusively, making them stick in their minds.
Of course I may be completely wrong about that, you'd have to ask my players :P
In our case, the most memorable bastard NPCs are ones that manage to piss off a PC, then live to fight another day. Our normal reaction to anything that comes to a PC's attention in a negative way is "bullets are never wasted on dead bodies," so it's rare, and that makes it memorable.
One of my favorite characters was a LE human monk, that the PC's began to jokingly refer to as "evil Batman" (he was sneaky, snarky, and really good in a hand-to-hand fight).
Another was a LG Paladin, that I very much modeled after The Tick. Dumb, strong, good heart and righteous, and strangely, sometimes very wise. "For Great Justice!"
Ah yes, the loveable bastard. The man who you could trust with your life, but wouldn't trust with a penny. Someone who can be a friend or foe, depending entirely on the ever - changing circumstances, often turning sides at moment's notice. And certainly, I've made use of such characters, and I think it's the general love for rogues and grey/affably evil characters, that most people have.
I've used quite a few myself, and they were indeed usually taken well by the players. For my current Western game, I've ruthlessly stolen Al Sweargen in his full glory (so far the players were wise/lucky enough to stay out of his way though, but given their long - term plans to take over the town, it's unlikely it'll continue this way). There was also a certain dragon in my D&D campaign, which first ate half of party's donkeys as "tribute", but later returned to help them combat a wizard taken over by ancient Black Dragon God...only to reveal that he intends to take over said Black Dragon's hoard for himself, and that his kobold nomads army is on their way, so they better live before the survivors of the prior massacre of their home (which occurred on the very first session) arrive and finger them.
From the very same campaign, there was a mix of this trope and femme fatale that ended in literal symbiotic relationship with party's assassin - as a demigod, her superpower was that she was an amoebic creature who could take any shape as well as control any person she got "into"...so when the party finally figured out to keep their distance and bombard her with fire in order to vaporise her, with her last HPs she managed to get a lucky hit on the party's assassin and enter his body, without taking over.
And from my current Call of Cthulhu campaign, there is the vampire/sorcerer from The Haunting scenario I started the campaign off with, who offered to let the party go off alive (and seeing as he had one of the party members literally by the balls, they didn't risk it), in return for getting him to his "church" chapel...and from that time on, offered advice and help for various services and sacrifices. Though it remains to be seen whether he'll not end up doused in gasoline finally, or not.
Quote from: Novastar;664401One of my favorite characters was a LE human monk, that the PC's began to jokingly refer to as "evil Batman"
Well, at least you took naming your NPCs seriously. We tend to name our campaign villians things like "Weenie Lips," "Uncle Weenie Head," and "Captain Baby Raper."
My current example: One of the characters in the Pulp HERO game I run is sorta like Mina from LXG (as opposed to The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen). That is, she's technically not a vampire, but has some of those abilities. This is because her father was a Victorian Mad Scientist who tried to duplicate vampire longevity in the living by taking the blood from one vampire and injecting it into his wife's unborn child. However, he didn't expect that that vampire would get un-staked and seek revenge. After being used by her own father as a lab rat for the first five years of her life, the girl got away after the vampire found her father and killed him. And ever since the vampire has been stalking her for one reason or another, but mainly because he considers himself her true "father."
I play him somewhere between Spike from Buffy The Vampire Slayer and Alec from A Clockwork Orange. :D
JG
I think loveable bastards work well and tend to stand out in players memories. Loveable bastards work great as villains for some reason. I think when the players actually like your villain on a personal level, even if they hate what he does, it gets interesting. It is a bit like having a potician or celebrity you despise, them meeting them and finding out they a really friendly and nice.
Some other npc types I have used that players remember are:
The delusional idiot: the npc who thinks he is greater than he truly is, but really is a bit clueless. He often has real power, but no idea how to wield it effectively. These guys can work even better if you give them some grand world view that is easy to manipulate or if you make them devotees of a philosophy that clearly doesn't work for them.
The A-hole NPC: i dont do this much, but when i make an npc who is genuinely a jerk, players seem to enjoy them and they usually seek to get in their good graces. This may simply be because with my more low key temperment and just stands out. I had one really vicious npc mob capo who worked well. I think the key with these guys, like the loveable bastards, is they need some other skill or personality trait that makes putting up with their BS worth it.
The frustrating middle man: you can't do this too often or it gets annoying, but when players need to go through an intermediary and they sense the person isn't being straight with them, trying to hog credit for themselves or thwarting their efforts, it can be quite memorable. A bit like a Captain Darling type.
The thing about all the "loveable bastards" in my current campaign is that the PCs started out hating them, but later ended up recruiting them to fight in the insurrection they started, once they realized they were in waaay over their heads. So it's like "Yeah, these people are scum, but goddammit now they're our scum!"
It's been a blast, watching them cut all those shady deals. :popcorn:
Quote from: James Gillen;664437My current example: One of the characters in the Pulp HERO game I run is sorta like Mina from LXG (as opposed to The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen). That is, she's technically not a vampire, but has some of those abilities. This is because her father was a Victorian Mad Scientist who tried to duplicate vampire longevity in the living by taking the blood from one vampire and injecting it into his wife's unborn child. However, he didn't expect that that vampire would get un-staked and seek revenge. After being used by her own father as a lab rat for the first five years of her life, the girl got away after the vampire found her father and killed him. And ever since the vampire has been stalking her for one reason or another, but mainly because he considers himself her true "father."
I play him somewhere between Spike from Buffy The Vampire Slayer and Alec from A Clockwork Orange. :D
JG
That's really nice idea. I might steal that one.
The personality and playstyle of the players is huge here.
The 'better' roleplayers tend to enjoy memorable npc's even if the npc causes them difficulties.
The 'poor' roleplayers just kill anything that looks at them funny.
As a player I like interesting npc's, and don't mind at if they cause trouble. Trouble is usually fun in the game.
As a gm I probably don't use very many loveable bastards; I guess I lean towards npc's with baggage more than direct troublemakers.
Most of my players would omit the "loveable" part, and just refer to some of my NPCs as utter and complete bastards. :) Not because each and every one of them is out to foil their plans, or cause havoc. But because their interests might conflict, or they're unwilling or reluctant to lend aid (or share information).
That resistance can often force them to think on their feet, and roleplay out the scenario. Sometime it works, and sometimes it goes thermonuclear. It's often the thermonuclear-times that the players bring up in conversations months, or years, after the campaign has ended.
Of course in my case with these types of NPCs it may help that I'm playing pretty true-to-type...
I have to agree. Lu Ri. Greedy moneylender, extremely lecherous. And yet they always go see Lu Ri when they want to sell gems or need to find someone in Heng Na. Because despite all his many flaws, the guy gets stuff done with his connections and will completely swindle them for gems, but has silver on hand that many other merchants are reluctant to part with simply to exchange currency.
The Weaponsmith, Tsu, and Merchant, Ching, started out in debt to him for their shop and he was charging a 10% fee on the debt per month, compounding it monthly. Which made him a bit of antagonist to those PCs early on, but it was the price for starting out with a mutually owned shopfront. He even became the mentor to the Merchant and trained him to go up in Circles later (at a 10% training fee mark up of course).
Lovable bastard NPCs are hard to pull off, given that my group tends to form differing opinions on various NPCs. Group favorites tend to arise naturally instead of planning on my part. Like that one time in Shackled City when they decided that Beppo, the unassuming fruit merchant, had to be rescued first when an umber hulk dug up onto the city streets.
Everyone loves Han Solo more than Luke Skywalker.
There is a reason Wolverine gets his own Movies over Cyclops.
The most popular NPCS are ones that mirror what the PCs woudl do given a chance....
Quote from: jibbajibba;665397The most popular NPCS are ones that mirror what the PCs woudl do given a chance....
Pretty much. :D
JG