Looking for a system with the right balance between simplicity and depth

Itachi · December 05, 2016, 09:16:39 AM

Quote from: MES;933708Dear Forum,

In a previous threat I posted that I am planning to run a song of ice and fire campaign. I bought the official green ronin ruleset for that, but I am hesitating to actually use it.
Just recently I played "savage worlds" and I had a look at the "dungeonslayers" rules which are both VERY simple rulesets. Those systems got me hooked. Their focus is on the actual gameplay not so much in the rules. Still they are a bit too limited for my taste (or use too many different dice - grrrrr!)
I want my players to start right off and get the right feeling for both their characters and the rules.

Do you know an easy to handle system, which uses just a few attributes and still fits the world of westeros? Or would you say that the green ronin system is already simple enough? To me the attributes seem to come a bit random...

On the one hand the system should be dimple enough to be explained in 15 minutes, still it should also allow to the players to give their characters enough depth.
Maybe I am asking for too much. The rules if ASOIAF are pretty simple already...
I know that this threat sounds like asking for the holy grail of gaming - I know! Still I would be happy for your suggestions! I'd also be happy if you explain to me why I can't have both, because at the moment I want to have both.
is there a system which combines both simplicity and depth at the same time?

Why don't you try out the default game first ? You already paid some bucks for it. Might as well put some faith on the authors. Who knows, maybe you like it. And even if you don't, you will probably know the whys enough to modify it in ways that better fit your goals.

Other than that, nice suggestions already in the thread. I will second ACKS and Pendragon for rules on domain management, and will add Hillfolk for insights on how to do interesting inter-personal drama as seen on GoT series.

Itachi · December 05, 2016, 11:45:57 AM

Found this too. Looks helpful for your goals.

http://triplecrit.com/5-tips-writing-social-drama-rpg-campaigns/

finarvyn · December 06, 2016, 06:46:34 AM

Quote from: Armchair Gamer;933743Just as a side note, were you sure the two of you were talking about the same game? There have been two different RPGs--the Game of Thrones game that Guardians of Order put out just before they went under, and the Song of Ice and Fire one currently being produced by Green Ronin. I have no familiarity with either of them, and no interest in Westeros
, but I just want to be sure everyone's on the same page here.

A good point. I am actually slightly familiar with both games but was talking about the newer one rather than the older (d20) version. The d20 version would be faster to pick up since it has so many elements which are familiar to me through D&D play, and the size of the rulebook is such that it would make an excellent weapon in a melee battle.

Edgewise · December 06, 2016, 11:01:13 AM

Quote from: Psikerlord;933829Low Fantasy Gaming RPG is what you want, friend! Free PDF in my sig (or print via Lulu). d20 OGL variant, low magic, rules lite but plenty of room for customization.

I ran into LFGR at about the same time as Crypts and Things Remastered. There's a lot of overlapping ideas between the two games, and I like them both a lot. I recommend the poster checks out C&T also for a lightweight FRPG. If nothing else, it comes with a great and gritty Appendix N setting.

Tod13 · December 06, 2016, 11:20:27 AM

Quote from: The Butcher;933884These are my favorite fantasy RPGs right now (Mythras + MRQII Empires would be my pick for ASoIaF) but I felt they might be a tad crunchier than the OP may be looking for.

Jesus, is this guy still around? I've had him on ignore for a while. Does he even game? I mean, with people?

Give CRKrueger credit where it is due. He posted very complete answers, with reasons why he put each game on the list. You might disagree, but at least you have something to disagree with, instead of just a list of (1d6) game names.

Xanther · December 06, 2016, 06:54:24 PM

Quote from: Skarg;933855If I wanted what you want, I would use The Fantasy Trip, or if I wanted even more simplicity, Legends of the Ancient World from Dark City Games (which is TFT with less rules, but I think TFT already has few enough rules, and they're very carefully written and it plays very well).

TFT very nicely fits GoT with its lethal tactical combat and opportunities for tactics.

Skarg beat me to it. I second these recommendations. The rule sets, to me, also have the right feel.

I think you want to avoid a class based system unless you invent new ones for your game. Basically you only have fighters and thieves in Westros with very, very limited magic. D&D classes just are too few and don't capture differences in major character iconic types in the books. A light skill based system will. Also spell casting in TFT requires you to buy each spell as a skill.. This means spell casters have few spells, AND using them weakens them, again more like Westros.

Tod13 · December 06, 2016, 08:33:54 PM

Quote from: MES;933708
is there a system which combines both simplicity and depth at the same time?

I used DwD Studios BareBones Fantasy to introduce a friend to RPGs. It uses 2 d10s, that's it. I was looking for a rules lite game, and the rules are pretty much: roll under the skill or attribute percentile that is on your character sheet.

Here's a really good review of it http://chaosgrenade.com/2013/05/22/hands-on-review-barebones-fantasy/

Not sure if it fits the world you are looking at, as I read it so long ago I cannot remember it, but the review is pretty comprehensive.

cranebump · December 07, 2016, 08:31:26 PM

Quote from: CRKrueger;933728Eh, if he wants to go story, might as well stick with SoIaF, rely on the social combat rules and just deal with the melee combat problems. There's lots of suggestions on the GR site for dealing with the combat issues, even if they're not perfect. GoT is the one setting where the Sex Moves actually make sense.

That's the "Game of Titties" version in the early TV series.:-)

RPGPundit · December 12, 2016, 07:53:56 PM

I'd recommend the Appendix P rules in Dark Albion, except that you still need to have some edition of D&D to use it, just for the spells (I didn't think it was worth adding dozens of pages of material most OSR gamers have already).

Of course, if the little project I'm working on right now sees the light of day, there's going to be a version which won't use D&D spells at all...

Spinachcat · December 12, 2016, 11:59:33 PM

Quote from: Psikerlord;933829Low Fantasy Gaming RPG is what you want, friend!

You beat Zweihander to the pimping!!

Tristram Evans · December 17, 2016, 03:50:13 PM

I think the Wuthering Heights RPG would be fantastic for Game of Thrones...

lacercorvex · May 04, 2017, 11:14:22 AM

How about the Fate Freeport companion and Fate Core system, D&D on the lite side, story driven with all involved, you can mimic any fantasy TV show with it in little time. Easy conversion to D&D because it uses the six statistics of basic D&D as skills.

MiracleMax · May 04, 2017, 11:16:11 AM

We really enjoyed Savage Worlds.

One of our DMs also picked up The White Hack, which is very much a 'create-as-you-go-' approach. We made up our spells on the fly, which was a nice change from a distinct list of spells with specific limitations and standards to follow.

Nihilistic Mind · May 04, 2017, 03:08:29 PM

Quote from: CRKrueger;933727What's your suggestion then, genius?
The OP asked for suggestions, without exclusions.
I gave several, with very detailed explanations as to why those systems would help fit the Game of Thrones setting specifically.
Not focused on the actual gameplay? I broke down exactly what elements of gameplay the different suggested systems support.

Try more Midol.

I for one am glad you mentioned Mythras Imperative. I grew up with Stormbringer and Elric!, I ran a one shot with Legend, so I'm curious to see how Mythras is different.
The only thing I cannot stand in D100 systems I've played are the expansive lists of Skills. It gets overwhelming for new players so I was glad to see the limited list on the Mythras character sheet.

CanBeOnlyOne · May 06, 2017, 06:12:25 PM

Quote from: Nihilistic Mind;960718I for one am glad you mentioned Mythras Imperative. I grew up with Stormbringer and Elric!, I ran a one shot with Legend, so I'm curious to see how Mythras is different.
The only thing I cannot stand in D100 systems I've played are the expansive lists of Skills. It gets overwhelming for new players so I was glad to see the limited list on the Mythras character sheet.

I am reading Revolution D100 right now. Doesn't appear to be a "simple" game but it does use a unique blend of numeric skills and binary traits. A skill might be athletics while a trait might be fast runner. The great thing is it only uses 15 skills. You might want to check it out!