http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/here-comes-player's-handbook
Mearls reveals the full background list from the PHB and talks a bit about customizing your own.
Heh, ancient Gold Dragon. Seriously he's right backgrounds are great for both DM's and players.
Kinda surprised thought they woulda had more backgrounds than that.
Quote from: Sommerjon;775472Kinda surprised thought they woulda had more backgrounds than that.
I think they are keeping it simple at the start (12 backgrounds and 12 classes) backgrounds are easy to make and absolutely perfect to include in setting books.
Quote from: Marleycat;775477I think they are keeping it simple at the start (12 backgrounds and 12 classes) backgrounds are easy to make and absolutely perfect to include in setting books.
Agreed.
I can see backgrounds as a major setting feature.
Hopefully they will replace new classes as the standard background motif for PCs.
Still reckon Barbarian should be a background though.
Quote from: jibbajibba;775496Still reckon Barbarian should be a background though.
Outlander.
I wanna play an urchin! :)
Quote from: dbm;775507I wanna play an urchin! :)
Probably a very cool background for Rogues - and likely also Sorcerers and Walocks (the "mysterious kid with powers and an unknown past" trope) or Dex based fighter types for that matter. :)
Quote from: The Ent;775501Outlander.
I think he (?) is saying he'd rather see Barbarian
as a background, not match up nicely
to a background; be something tacked on to other Fighter types as a background, not be a class all by itself.
If not, I apologize, but trust he'll come by with a crowbar and adjust my post as needed. ;)
Quote from: dbm;775507I wanna play an urchin! :)
I wanna play an Ancient Gold Dragon Bard! :)
Ha ha: Cleric with Charlatan background. THAT could be interesting: and I don't necessarily mean a follower of a "God of Thieves", which would be too obvious.
How about a High Elf Rogue Charlatan? Expertise & Prestidigitation to sell it and then get outta dodge. "Yes, I am Galadriel..."
Ooo.... Ancient Gold Dragon....
Which could tie into being of the seven gold dragons who attend Bahamut and...
Wait, what?
Hmm... Dentist doesn't seem to be a background option for elves. Gonna have to fix that for my campaign.
Quote from: Critias;775515I think he (?) is saying he'd rather see Barbarian as a background, not match up nicely to a background; be something tacked on to other Fighter types as a background, not be a class all by itself.
If not, I apologize, but trust he'll come by with a crowbar and adjust my post as needed. ;)
You got it.
I was cross pollinating from the Barbarian sub-class thread
Quote from: Marleycat;775465Heh, ancient Gold Dragon. Seriously he's right backgrounds are great for both DM's and players.
All kidding aside, a Gold dragon would be a great background.
In 1E gold dragons were able to take human form, and I can see a bloodline thing going on there.
In this case, the 'Ancient' might mean a few drops of blood from an ancestor.
Quote from: Bill;775535All kidding aside, a Gold dragon would be a great background.
In 1E gold dragons were able to take human form, and I can see a bloodline thing going on there.
I think that's still canon in 5E... or at least, if there was a period when metallic dragons couldn't take on mundane forms to go about incognito, I'm not aware of it.
Quote from: Warthur;775537I think that's still canon in 5E... or at least, if there was a period when metallic dragons couldn't take on mundane forms to go about incognito, I'm not aware of it.
I want a Paladin with THE PLATINUM DRAGON background.
Seriously.
Quote from: Bill;775540I want a Paladin with THE PLATINUM DRAGON background.
Seriously.
"Roooooaar!"
"Oh. Hi Dad!"
I like the Hermit background, and might just create say a Fighter or Ranger with that background, as some kind of semi-mystical wilderness dude. It'd also rock for more or less Biblical-esque Clerics and Paladins.
Quote from: flyerfan1991;775541"Roooooaar!"
"Oh. Hi Dad!"
I would get some pet canaries and scare the living hell out of people.
As someone who experimented with Noble being a class, a feat, a PrC, or 'I guess orator bard?', I'm happy to see it nestled firmly in a broader mechanic in 5e.
Quote from: jibbajibba;775496Still reckon Barbarian should be a background though.
Yes, yes, yes a million times
yes! But is it? No, no, no a million times no, because evidently
lightly-armored rage needs an entire class to support it.
Consideration:
Rename Barbarians Berserkers.
Add a Barbarian Background.
(Also, generally, allow tweaks of starting skills to reflect different origins)
Quote from: jibbajibba;775496Agreed.
I can see backgrounds as a major setting feature.
Hopefully they will replace new classes as the standard background motif for PCs.
Still reckon Barbarian should be a background though.
Subclass you mean. Right?
Quote from: Marleycat;775560Subclass you mean. Right?
Nope background.
A barbarian is a warrior from a "primitive" society.
A good test for any subclass or class is to say if I took the base 4 classes and moved them to a different culture would I still need a new class with all that mechanical bloat?
If you class is Corsair or Raider and you worked out that if you played a fighter in a seabound culture then the Corsair class wouldn't be retired then the class should be dumped and a background created for that culture that can be applied to all classes.
Quote from: Will;775558Consideration:
Rename Barbarians Berserkers.
Add a Barbarian Background.
(Also, generally, allow tweaks of starting skills to reflect different origins)
Beserker should be a feat.
Quote from: jibbajibba;775574Beserker should be a feat.
No it shouldn't.
(psst: maybe say why or something more elaborate than 'X is Y'?)
Quote from: Will;775578No it shouldn't.
(psst: maybe say why or something more elaborate than 'X is Y'?)
:) I tend to over elaborate so this is my new mode :)
however...
there are several different types of warrior that might have beserk, You have the traditional Viking idea then you have the celtic "wyrd" then you have the way Heracles would go into frenzy, then you have the idea of a pit fighter who might loose control and see a red mist.. etc I can even see a cleric of a chaos god, a wild mage maybe etc etc
so there are a lot of fighters (and even other classes) who might have a beserker facility. How do we build a broad reach combat focused ability that can be shared by a range of PCs from different backgrounds? Yes that is right feats .....
Fair enough. I think you could approach it with a Berserker class with it's own tweaks to move toward various fighting styles.
Ooo! Or do _both_... have a feat that provides some limited raging, so you can add a bit of berserkering to fighters or clerics or rangers or commoners, as well as having a dedicated Berserker class who can also be pushed in various directions.
(also, I really hope they don't have a fucking commoner class again)
Quote from: Exploderwizard;775530Hmm... Dentist doesn't seem to be a background option for elves. Gonna have to fix that for my campaign.
I must be old because I immediately got the reference ;)
And Jesus your sig is huge
Quote from: Will;775594(also, I really hope they don't have a fucking commoner class again)
I hope they do, so I can be a
Ancient Gold Dragon Commoner!You have a powerful and monstrous heritage! Do you use the fire in your blood to become a mighty Sorceror? Use your draconic instinct to be a great Fighter? Do you--"Nah, I think I'll hang around town, maybe run an inn..."
(I'm just kidding, I don't have an opinion either way :D It just seems like a funny notion.)
RE: The whole barbarian thing. This is how I would handle it.
The whole berserker rage thing- subclass of fighter. Its a combat style based on losing your shit and hoping that you survive. Simple.
Primitive- background option. Being from a lower level of technical advancement than the majority of the campaign world.
Barbarian- a label that you get stuck with depending on other decisions you made for your character and what part of the setting you are currently in.
Being considered a barbarian is a cultural stigma that can be applied to anyone deemed an "outsider" to a particular culture. WE are enlightened and favored by the gods, THEY are barbarians whose natural place is serving as our slaves. That attitude is simple tribalism and can be applied to groups who may not even be primitive in comparison -just culturally different.
Barbarian should be a hairdo. And a mustache.
I'm happy with the gamut of backgrounds. Including their random charts for flaws and bonds, I think it covers a lot of ground.
Not enough, though. Never enough. :D
I'd like to tweak Noble into diplomat, and i'd like to see an Occultist or simply Cultist background. All probably tweakable from the existing ones, however.
What would be a good example of a background that wouldn't be easily tweaked from an existing one?
Klingon!
oh, wait. 'good'
Quote from: Will;775594(also, I really hope they don't have a fucking commoner class again)
There was a prostitute class?
Quote from: jadrax;775696There was a prostitute class?
No, only in Conan d20.
Quote from: Exploderwizard;775530Hmm... Dentist doesn't seem to be a background option for elves. Gonna have to fix that for my campaign.
No 'Camp Follower' either....
Poor Chloe...
Quote from: The Ent;775701No, only in Conan d20.
That was Temptress, but close. ;o)
Quote from: Will;775558Consideration:
Rename Barbarians Berserkers.
Add a Barbarian Background.
In Majestic Wilderlands rather than a Barbarian class, I made a Berserker class. They are holy warriors of Thor that are badass monster hunters. The general gist that they are fanatics hanging round Viking communities. When a monster pops up that terroizes the populace they rage out and hunt down the critter.
Quote from: Number1TheLarch;775689I'm happy with the gamut of backgrounds. Including their random charts for flaws and bonds, I think it covers a lot of ground.
Not enough, though. Never enough. :D
I'd like to tweak Noble into diplomat, and i'd like to see an Occultist or simply Cultist background. All probably tweakable from the existing ones, however.
What would be a good example of a background that wouldn't be easily tweaked from an existing one?
I would need to see the book before I would be able to give a good answer to this honestly. From how I do understand it though you can pretty much swap out skills in any combination or tools. The Acolyte background gives a really nice framework to makeup a background that needs contacts or maybe a little network type thing (a place to crash, or get a certain service for free or similar).
Quote from: Marleycat;775739I would need to see the book before I would be able to give a good answer to this honestly. From how I do understand it though you can pretty much swap out skills in any combination or tools. The Acolyte background gives a really nice framework to makeup a background that needs contacts or maybe a little network type thing (a place to crash, or get a certain service for free or similar).
My impression so far is, "Here's a bunch of common backgrounds. It's obvious the template we used to create them, so feel free to create your own rather than us have 100 pages of them."
Yeah, backgrounds aren't really much more than 'two skills, some related tools, and social connections related to background.'
Which is cool.
What will be interesting is seeing how feats work into it, because feats seem to really extend the tweaks in a more meaty way. (Also subclasses)
It would be easy to use two backgrounds as well; taking half of the stuff from each.
I was also thinking about, for games where you just have a couple of players and want to give their characters a bit of a Renaissance-man feel, just letting each PC have two backgrounds whole cloth. Like a 3e gestalt class without the headache.
Quote from: Imp;775762I was also thinking about, for games where you just have a couple of players and want to give their characters a bit of a Renaissance-man feel, just letting each PC have two backgrounds whole cloth. Like a 3e gestalt class without the headache.
I don't see were that would hurt anything in a game such as that. So big deal that you get a couple extra languages and maybe an extra way to network.
Quote from: Imp;775762I was also thinking about, for games where you just have a couple of players and want to give their characters a bit of a Renaissance-man feel, just letting each PC have two backgrounds whole cloth. Like a 3e gestalt class without the headache.
I would be tempted to go with two backgrounds in general, now that you put the idea in my head.
A player could double up one if they did not need two for their concept.
Interesting.
I can see it - like Local Hero + Outlander = you're the Local Hero of some other place/a foreign peasant. :D
One option would be 'combine two backgrounds or add an extra two skills and you are more important in whatever background you chose.'
Another thought occurs to me:
I'd rather certain things that often go into racials, like weapon proficiency, be associated with backgrounds. That might make a good option.
Ooo, here's a thought: split off a little of racial bonuses into a 'racial background.' Humans might have some of that, or might just have double backgrounds, thus reflecting their flexibility.
Quote from: Will;775858Another thought occurs to me:
I'd rather certain things that often go into racials, like weapon proficiency, be associated with backgrounds. That might make a good option.
Ooo, here's a thought: split off a little of racial bonuses into a 'racial background.' Humans might have some of that, or might just have double backgrounds, thus reflecting their flexibility.
It did occur to me to do something similar.... bit more extreme perhaps.
Pull all the racial stat modifiers. Have each race have minimum and maximum values for each stat (if you want to be an Elf you must have 13 dex minimum, if you want to be a hobbit you have a maximum of 14 strength etc etc )
then make all races and all human cultures for your setting (such as Barbarian = Celt for example) into backgrounds.
Everyone gets 2 backgrounds a racial/cultural background and an occupation type background.
You are a Roman Legionaire. Get Roman and Soldier backgrounds. You are a Drow Priestess , get Drow and Acolyte backgrounds, you are a Melnibonian Sorcerer King get the Melniboné and Noble backgrounds etc etc etc.
Quote from: Scott Anderson;775681Barbarian should be a hairdo. And a mustache.
Kind of like an inverse Brazilian?
Quote from: jibbajibba;775904...you are a Melnibonian Sorcerer King get the Melniboné and Noble backgrounds etc etc etc.
Which part includes Sorcerer? Or should that be three backgrounds?
Quote from: jibbajibba;775904It did occur to me to do something similar.... bit more extreme perhaps.
Pull all the racial stat modifiers. Have each race have minimum and maximum values for each stat (if you want to be an Elf you must have 13 dex minimum, if you want to be a hobbit you have a maximum of 14 strength etc etc )
then make all races and all human cultures for your setting (such as Barbarian = Celt for example) into backgrounds.
Everyone gets 2 backgrounds a racial/cultural background and an occupation type background.
You are a Roman Legionaire. Get Roman and Soldier backgrounds. You are a Drow Priestess , get Drow and Acolyte backgrounds, you are a Melnibonian Sorcerer King get the Melniboné and Noble backgrounds etc etc etc.
That's workable if you prefer 5e's limited feat slots (I think one of 5e's best decisions was given limited feat slots and making them compete directly with ability improvements).
Quote from: Bren;775929Which part includes Sorcerer? Or should that be three backgrounds?
The Sorcerer would be his class.
Quote from: Marleycat;775937That's workable if you prefer 5e's limited feat slots (I think one of 5e's best decisions was given limited feat slots and making them compete directly with ability improvements).
Workable cos its workable.
Bugger all to do with feat slots.
You could pull feats entirely and this woudl still work.
Effectively the aim is to reduce the number of mechanical levers but keep the num,ber of options.
So currently you have
Race
Class
Subclass
Background
Feats
This would reduce it to
Class
Background
Feats
(I would keep feats as the single mechanical level but you could pull those as well easily enough.)
So you want to play an Elven Paladin
You take the class Warrior
You take the background Elf
You take the background Holy Order (or whatever)
As you level and they become available you take feats which cover some of those paladin like powers
Now you have to actually role play like a paladin rather than being called a paladin and getting a load of boosts in return for roleplaying the guy you were going to roleplay anyway.
The feat bits you get are the special powers. The paladiny ones would be available to clerics and a range of other classes as determined by the setting.
Now you have sufficient mechnaical variation but you only have 4 classes and the flexibility of backgrounds to cover for race and subclass and the flexibility of feats to provide mechanical tweaks for those that need them.
Less levers, less abuse, lots of flexibility
It also makes for interesting possible half race options, which I've always felt lacking in 3e.
Okay so I'm getting 5e sort of third hand since I don't want to read it myself yet, let alone play. Soon.
Race, class, background, feat? Is that how it works? And ability scores take somewhat of a back seat compared to 3e?
That's not bad.
I also love the hack where races are just a background. That's a good way to unify the rules as well as give Men a boost over Demi-men. It feels like something old-fashioned and strong but still a little weird.
It feels like something Traveller or Petal Throne should have. But sticking it into D makes D better.
Hm. Must think on this. Class, background... Class, background
Feats are actually _optional_.
When you gain an ability score every whatever levels (I forget), you can either choose a bonus to an ability score OR a feat.
Also, backgrounds are pretty low-key:
2 skills, social status/connections that relate, maybe some tools.
Although keep in mind most classes only give proficiency in two skills, so backgrounds essentially are 50% of what your skill selection is likely to be (other than rogues and maybe others).
Ability scores are actually pretty important. Arguably MORE important, because other bonuses aren't as large and don't inflate rapidly like they do in 3e.
Quote from: Will;775970Feats are actually _optional_.
When you gain an ability score every whatever levels (I forget), you can either choose a bonus to an ability score OR a feat.
Also, backgrounds are pretty low-key:
2 skills, social status/connections that relate, maybe some tools.
Although keep in mind most classes only give proficiency in two skills, so backgrounds essentially are 50% of what your skill selection is likely to be (other than rogues and maybe others).
Ability scores are actually pretty important. Arguably MORE important, because other bonuses aren't as large and don't inflate rapidly like they do in 3e.
It's 4/8/12/16/19 for feats unless you're a Fighter. And only Bards get more then 2 skills and expertise like Rogues (those classes are your skill monkeys, specifically Thief's and Lore Bard subclasses).
Quote from: dbm;775507I wanna play an urchin! :)
Can you shoot the quills at people though?
One of the backgrounds in Dragon Storm I liked was the "Remorseful Apprentice" This was a former necromancer apprentice who at some point realized "Hey... we ARENT the good guys?"
Quote from: Omega;776024Can you shoot the quills at people though?
Actually, I just back up very quickly...
Some very nice homebrews already making an appearance:
The Prisoner (http://hackslashmaster.blogspot.com/2014/07/on-5e-backgrounds-prisoner.html)
The Ratcatcher (http://hackslashmaster.blogspot.com/2014/07/on-5e-backgrounds-ratcatcher.html)
The Farmer (http://hackslashmaster.blogspot.com/2014/08/on-5e-background-farmer.html)
and the Gravedigger (http://hackslashmaster.blogspot.com/2014/08/on-5e-backgrounds-gravedigger.html)
Quote from: Saplatt;776452Some very nice homebrews already making an appearance:
The Prisoner (http://hackslashmaster.blogspot.com/2014/07/on-5e-backgrounds-prisoner.html)
The Ratcatcher (http://hackslashmaster.blogspot.com/2014/07/on-5e-backgrounds-ratcatcher.html)
The Farmer (http://hackslashmaster.blogspot.com/2014/08/on-5e-background-farmer.html)
and the Gravedigger (http://hackslashmaster.blogspot.com/2014/08/on-5e-backgrounds-gravedigger.html)
There will be 1000 by September 1st.
Quote from: Saplatt;776452Some very nice homebrews already making an appearance:
The Prisoner (http://hackslashmaster.blogspot.com/2014/07/on-5e-backgrounds-prisoner.html)
The Ratcatcher (http://hackslashmaster.blogspot.com/2014/07/on-5e-backgrounds-ratcatcher.html)
The Farmer (http://hackslashmaster.blogspot.com/2014/08/on-5e-background-farmer.html)
and the Gravedigger (http://hackslashmaster.blogspot.com/2014/08/on-5e-backgrounds-gravedigger.html)
Cool, but the Features are way over the top.