Quote from: Xavier Onassiss;673295Alternately, one spotlight-hogging player just happens to have a hindrance which is always appropriate to the scenario, and accumulates a stack of bennies with which to run amok while everyone else dives for cover and watches him play.

They did actually say inspiration would apply only once per scene at most (reading: rarer than that) and the benefit has to be used quickly so this is probably not going to happen.

Also, I don't see how your described issues aren't a bad GM rewarding stupid things. Rules shouldn't be written to account for bad GMs (or lame players, for that matter).

Quote from: Bill;673297A and B would be the same in my game. GM makes a call if advantage applies.

Or am I being clueless?

That's exactly what Mearls said...

Again, I worry about this becoming a club to beat the DM with, but it doesn't bother me that it exists.

Quote from: vytzka;673302Rules shouldn't be written to account for bad GMs (or lame players, for that matter).

:rotfl:

Oh. Da iwony.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;673301The second part I do have a problem with, because it is disassociated.  I.e., if you roleplay better, you get this wonderful point that you can use to gain a mechanical bonus to whatever you're doing any time down the road, or an ally can get that bonus.

I think I see a middle step in there that you're either not seeing or are skipping over.

You see

Roleplay better > Get benefit

I see Roleplay better > Define character clearly, and when it really matters to said character > Get benefit

In short he could just be trying really hard.

This is still a design whose designers fundamentally believe that the game system is the be all end all of the experience. They see everything under the lense of "how could we represent/support this or that through the rules?" There's a fundamental disconnect going on here.

Also, it's way too early to call this a "story game", and it IS a different approach than 4e, but only in the application, switching "gamism" for "narrativism", basically, whereas the fundamental issue is the tacit support of the GNS/Forge type of thinking in the first place, where "System Matters", "role playing" equates "story", "simulation" is somehow bad and "not roleplaying", etc.

Le Sigh.

Quote from: Exploderwizard;673306:rotfl:

Oh. Da iwony.

I think you will have to spell it out for me so I could enjoy the fun as well.

As I said, I don't see inspiration as a mechanism for fixing bad players somehow because it does nothing of the sort. It encourages GOOD roleplaying.

My opinion is it is a lost cause to attempt to apply rules to all possible events that can occur, and all aspects of an rpg.

I don't even have the slightes desire for that to be done, regardless of feasability.

Quote from: Benoist;673311This is still a design whose designers fundamentally believe that the game system is the be all end all of the experience. They see everything under the lense of "how could we represent/support this or that through the rules?" There's a fundamental disconnect going on here.

Or maybe they said "here's a cool thing we can do."

Crazy.

Found it:

"By demonstrating that the events in the game are critical to your character's goals and beliefs, you can allow your character to tap into reserves of energy and determination to carry the day."

That's why I didn't see anything too offensive to D&D, personally.  In fact I probably would have used fiat to handle this before.

You go to deliver the killing blow to your nemesis.  You roll a 2.  I smile and say, "Yeah, no, reroll that crap."  If you missed that time I would assume the dice gods want us to find another route.

A few things:

One, how are the 4VENGERS! reacting?  If they hate this and are rending their garments and throwing ash on their heads then this is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Two, I have never and will never award XP for "good roleplaying".  

With that said, the final thing: there is a grading system in 1e for adjudication of how long it takes a character to level (how much they'll have to spend) based on how well they performed their class (e.g., a magic-user who just for some reason did melee combat and cast no spells and the player barely paid any mind would rate a 3 or 4, whereas another who cast spells and found creative ways to use them might rate a 1 or at worst 2).  Maybe Mearls is saying they're taking that concept and front-loading it?  But that's not about XP, that's about how much time and money it takes to level so...I dunno.

Quote from: thedungeondelver;673319A few things:

One, how are the 4VENGERS! reacting?  If they hate this and are rending their garments and throwing ash on their heads then this is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Oh, they hate it too - because it was stolen from Dungeon World or something...

Quote from: mcbobbo;673308I

In short he could just be trying really hard.

But that takes a really convoluted path to arrive at this conclusion. If they want the trying really hard bonus, they can justhave a mechanic that exlicitly gives it like Cook is doing in numenera (at least that is my understanding of it).

Either way, this isnt the end of the world. It is basically a benny, if done a bit poorly, and similar things exist in countless other rpgs. They are very easy to ignore. I think the real problem isnt that they are always bad, but they only really work for a certain playstyle. In Savage Worlds bennies sort of make sense becuse you are assumed to be characters like John McClane or James Bond. But not everyone plays D&D in that manner. So this makes much more sense to me as n optional rule for those types of campaigns.

I do think the strong reaction is a bit much. So far they haven't really pandered  to the narrative or the 4E crowd IMO. I haven't agreed with every deign choice, but they have all been in the ballpark of my style.

Quote from: One Horse Town;673320Oh, they hate it too - because it was stolen from Dungeon World or something...

And also being outdated, somehow.


Also, bitching about alignments. 4vengers REALLY like bitching about alignments. It's like a backup option if there's nothing entirely on topic to bitch about.

Quote'Dude, let's unite the editions, get some of that abstract OD&D shizzle in there !'

'Sho nuff (taps nose) but with a modern twist Phate-style !'

'Woh, you cookin' on gas MastaMike, now let's blog it up and grab some 'cinos!'

Is all this Mother May I stuff in the Core, if so, the OSR publishers will be rubbing their hands with glee, cause this ain't the real deal.

Wait, what?