This is the news I just got at the big RPGA meeting at GenCon tonight.

I'm a bit disappointed at this. I've had a great time with LG over the last two years, starting with Winter Fantasy 2006. Yes, that was my very first Living Greyhawk experience.

It will be replaced by Living Realms.

The crowd was not at all pleased, really, but I did note a few girls who seemed very excited by the return of the Forgotten Realms as a setting.

Now, I'm not fan of the Realms in general. There's just a bit too much romance in the setting, and there are too many powerful, good-aligned NPCs for my liking. I think this can be fixed, and the guy at the big RPGA meeting seemed to hint at a reboot. The other promise made was somehow getting the Realms "novel team" and D&D R&D involved in writing some of the Living Realms adventures. so adventures would be tied to novels and (perhaps?) novels might be based on the adventures.

Which I have an ambivalent feeling for. On the one hand, cool, it means good writers. The way I do Living Adventures and Xendrik now is I note the authors and I note who the real great great authors are. (P.s. The good adventures are written by a guy named Greg Marks and another guy named Brian Mackey. Those guys kick ass. ).

On the other hand, I fucking hate Forgotten Realms novels. Drizzle d'oodle or whatever. I don't get it. I also am not interested in 1000 years of backstory and continuity or whatever they have. I like the Greyhawk deities. I like the Greyhawk style of outer planes. I don't want to re-do all that crap.

So that's that.

But I *do* like certain things about FR, it's a far more cosmopolitan a setting than Greyhawk, and a nice middle ground between the the staid nature of Greyhawk and the prismatic rainbow of Eberron.

I would like to see a D&D that seems modern and still remains D&D. Not Eberron. Eberron isn't it. And FR isn't it. It's still a bunch of guys walking around in their renfair costumes. My home campiagns are modernized and totally core D&D. This could be done with FR, I think. Maybe not.  

But it could be modernized.

At the delve they are auctioning off the Greyhawk shields. My own region (Geoff) has never been kind of me. When I was playing a Suel, I encountered prejudice from an anti-suel plotline they had going. When I played a gnome, I got a lot of anti-gnome crap. So now I'm playing a kobold, which apparently is making some people crazy.

But even if Geoff let me down, I'm not letting them down. I talked to one of my triad members and helped kinda organize an effort to get multiple region members to do the delve and contribute their tickets to getting our shield. We need 200 tokens (eahc run of the Delve nets between 1 and 5 tokens), and I've contributed around 30 or so. My friends have kicked in another 30 or so. I ran into some other Geoff players that got involved. We have around 165 at last count.

We're going to bring home the shield.  


Well, anyhow, that's my take. I want to think this thing could be cool, but I guess we'll see.

QuoteIt will be replaced by Living Realms.

Wow.  That's a big change.  Canada has the Ket region of Greyhawk, so everything is Sinbad / Aladdin here.

I'd personally prefer something a bit more European-Medieval, but a lot of people (including the guy running the local game) are really into how non-standard the Ket region is.

Quote from: StuartWow.  That's a big change.  Canada has the Ket region of Greyhawk, so everything is Sinbad / Aladdin here.

I'd personally prefer something a bit more European-Medieval, but a lot of people (including the guy running the local game) are really into how non-standard the Ket region is.

I'd go to Ket any day!
My kobold character (I now have two kobolds..both dragonwrought coppers) is kind of my "screw you, Geoff" thing.

Wow.  Just. Wow.

I'm actually quite surprised. What seems weird is i can't seem to find an answer as to whether or not it really is coming back in 4e.  I've seen things that say it will be Living Realms instead; others that say LG will restart..

Know anything AM?

I'll be disappointed.  I was looking forward to buying the greyhawk campaign book.  now I don't know if I can justify it if it's 3.5 rules...rules that will be outdated in 6 moths for a campaign that will be dead in 12...

Who had this bright idea?

RPGA sent out an email, reposted here: http://trueanimehero.livejournal.com/90470.html

Living Greyhawk is ending...

QuoteLiving Greyhawk has been the face of organized play for the 3rd
Edition D&D game. Tremendously successful, thousands participate
worldwide in the biggest shared-world D&D game anywhere. LG hasbeen
around since the beginning of 3rd Edition, and it will last to the
end of the 3rd Edition product line. Starting with a two-round
special at D&D Experience 2008 (February 28 – March 2), thecampaign
will begin its final story arc – a series of core adventures that
will build into the climactic two-round finale at Origins 2008. We're
pulling out all the stops in these final adventures – no major NPC is
off-limits, and you're really going to be a part of the most world-
affecting story arc we've ever done. We're getting some of the best
authors to ever write for Living Greyhawk to help with these
adventures – what the Circle has planned is nothing short of amazing.
While the campaign concludes at Origins next year, it is our
sincerest desire to provide you an epic conclusion to the campaign we
all love so much.

I know you want more specifics, now that the cat's out of the bag.
Regions will have up to 6 adventures next year – all of them will
premiere no later than June 30, 2008. Metaregions will have 4
adventures next year, with the same premiere deadline. All adventures
released in 2007 and 2008 will be playable until December 31, 2008.
We're also looking at increasing play opportunities for your
characters in 2008 so they have a better chance of reaching the goals
you've set for them. The two specials next year – the first and last
adventures in the final core story arc – will be available for all
conventions soon after they premiere at their respective shows. Many
more players will be able to enjoy all of the final adventures for
Living Greyhawk, as the specials come to their local shows.

More information on Living Greyhawk's conclusion will become
available in the next few weeks on the website.

Living Realms is starting...

QuoteAt D&D Experience 2008, you'll be able to get your first full-onplay
of D&D 4th Edition in its final form. This will come in the form of
preview adventures for the next Living campaign – Living Forgotten
Realms! The most popular campaign setting for D&D finally gets its
turn as a regionalized Living campaign. If you like the system for
Living Greyhawk, you'll love what we have in store with Living
Forgotten Realms: more play opportunities for the average gamer,
fully supported online and offline play, and a greater shared-world
experience than we've ever done before with a Living campaign. Living
Forgotten Realms will be the first truly global Living campaign.

James: There is no Living Greyhawk or even Greyhawk book that is at all current. Aside from the ruins of Greyhawk Castle adventure.

QuoteThe other promise made was somehow getting the Realms "novel team" and D&D R&D involved in writing some of the Living Realms adventures. so adventures would be tied to novels and (perhaps?) novels might be based on the adventures.

Now, wait just a damn minute.  Isn't inheriting a host of retarded Mary Sues and GMPCs from the novels the whole goddamn problem with the Realms in the first place?  How the fuck is this helping anything?

My bad - I was referring to the 224 Super adventure.

My point still stands.  Buying stuff that will be dead in 9 months?

I'm thinking that I'd be better off starting a web-site to support all of the folks that will want to stick with 3.5 rules.  Hmmm...

Yea, I don't know if I could play in a living realms campaign.  One of the problems with the Living structure is that it's very hard to avoid the railroad syndrome.  I didn't play a lot of LG (not for alck of wanting to get involved), but what I did play, it was pretty good at avoiding this.  Though it wasn't that you could avoid it, more like you understood it and the results of your particulal session were reflected in your character's development.

One of the problems with the realms, after reading the campaign book and being familiar with it from the old days is the much greater sense of railroading to fit the plots of the books.  That, and the fact that your characters always seemed to be the red-shirts for the NPC's doing all the heavy lifting.

That was then..but given recent events, I'm not too optimistic about the this is now part.

Man does this feel like going from 1st to 2nd edition all over again.  Which, of course, was when I dropped out of gaming for a while...

I've always much preferred Greyhawk to FR.  But I'm not much into organized play these days, so not much should change for me as far as that.

So what, is 4e going to have the Greyhawk implied setting and FR OP? :confused:

Something about all the settings being sort of blended.  Mordenkainen + Thor + War Forged...

Quote from: StuartSomething about all the settings being sort of blended.  Mordenkainen + Thor + War Forged...

Huh.

From the hints I've seen dropped, 4e might not even have Greyhawk as the implied setting.  And on this, I've got a theory...

Combined with the success of darker settings is the idea that perhaps, once and for all, they can get rid of Greyhawk. Take the opportunity of 4e and a decent run of LG to end both 3.X and LG.  Don't use Greyhawk as the implied setting either.

It's a clean break.  The last vestiges of Gygax, from Vancian magic (which seems will be nothing more than a nod to the concept - not that I love vancian magic), Greyhawk, anything. This is it. This is no longer his game in any way.

I don't know if I'm getting to be an old grognard or what, but I do sense the hobby moving away from me.  I think I will end up playing OOP versions of D&D, either 1st or 3rd, while the kids use that intraweb thingie and some slick non-crunch system that's more "cinematic" in nature.

Quote from: Zachary The FirstI've always much preferred Greyhawk to FR.  But I'm not much into organized play these days, so not much should change for me as far as that.

So what, is 4e going to have the Greyhawk implied setting and FR OP? :confused:

I'm confused about this as well. And I'm also bugged by the Mary Sue-ification of how it all works.

Bottom line: The Forgotten Realms is a tedious and romanticized take on the bad-ass fantasy I like so much (the oft-derided Dungeonpunk is what I love about fantasy). I tend to associate almost everything bad about 2nd Edition with FR.

But I'm still going to wait and see.

QuoteGreyhawk will not be default setting in core. We want to leverage the assets of the assumed parts of a D&D world – Mordenkainen, Bigby, Vecna, Llolth, Tiamat, Asmodeus, etc. However, we also want to call upon the great mythology that is more commonly known such as Thor, etc.

Plus Changelings from Ebberon are (probably) Core.  I think Warforged was mentioned as under consideration too.