Quote from: FingerRod on April 15, 2022, 06:25:29 PM
.......Maybe you should add a Blue category to put companies that should be yellow but are green .......

...but to hell with purple people! (to quote Mitch Hedberg)

Quote from: FingerRod on April 15, 2022, 01:40:58 PM
Always great to see resolve and conviction melt away when it is a product people like.

Yeah. I noticed that too.

Quote from: FingerRod on April 15, 2022, 01:40:58 PM
Always great to see resolve and conviction melt away when it is a product people like.

People draw the line in different places. 'Race' is not a term to which I've ever felt too attached, much less a hill worth dying on.

Quote from: Armchair Gamer on April 15, 2022, 08:31:13 PM

Quote from: FingerRod on April 15, 2022, 01:40:58 PM
Always great to see resolve and conviction melt away when it is a product people like.

People draw the line in different places. 'Race' is not a term to which I've ever felt too attached, much less a hill worth dying on.

It's as if people have free will in order to choose that which they enjoy and separate from which they do not.   Astounding concepts free will is...

I'm not the kind of person that boycotts everything that disagrees with me, unless they put out certain doctrines that I have to follow or risk getting publicly condemned and shamed. So far nothing I've seen from Savage Worlds and PEGInc has outright demonstrated this yet.

Quote from: Armchair Gamer on April 15, 2022, 12:48:52 PM
The launch stream said 'ancestry' was being used to allow the same rules to be used to distinguish various human cultures, etc.

Thanks! I haven't seen the launch stream. I'll have a look at it.

New things happen this thing with pinnacle just dropped. Waiting to see what they do before moving em I had em yellow for a while but it was pointed out I was being too harsh

I don't have an interest in gkg one way or another. All of these ratings are subjective anyway. I did have one guy who kept telling me to move him to red, I didn't because it made him mad lol. He might be there now or in yellow with a note saying he's crying about it.

Going to see where pinnacle goes with this when the companion drops. Not even mad about ancestry as a term but that it might be a sign that they're going in that direction of pandering to Karens on twitter.

Quote from: Ocule on April 15, 2022, 08:53:51 PM
New things happen this thing with pinnacle just dropped. Waiting to see what they do before moving em I had em yellow for a while but it was pointed out I was being too harsh

I don't have an interest in gkg one way or another. All of these ratings are subjective anyway. I did have one guy who kept telling me to move him to red, I didn't because it made him mad lol. He might be there now or in yellow with a note saying he's crying about it.

Going to see where pinnacle goes with this when the companion drops. Not even mad about ancestry as a term but that it might be a sign that they're going in that direction of pandering to Karens on twitter.

Sean Patrick Fannon was the biggest reason that I shied away from Pinnacle.  No idea if he's still a factor or he's moved onto getting canceled again for some other Thought Crime.

Quote from: Ocule on April 15, 2022, 08:53:51 PM
Going to see where pinnacle goes with this when the companion drops. Not even mad about ancestry as a term but that it might be a sign that they're going in that direction of pandering to Karens on twitter.

TBH I think if they really wanted to pander, they would have come clean and fully admitted it. Shane did say that they removed the Confederates for narrative reasons, adding that both the woke and anti-woke club were unhappy with the decision. It sounds more to me like they're trying to play it safe and tiptoe around any potential landmines that could blow up in their faces. Understandable, given how big their presence has gotten in recent years.

But I could be wrong on all of that, of course 

Quote from: mudbanks on April 15, 2022, 08:58:59 PM

Quote from: Ocule on April 15, 2022, 08:53:51 PM
Going to see where pinnacle goes with this when the companion drops. Not even mad about ancestry as a term but that it might be a sign that they're going in that direction of pandering to Karens on twitter.

TBH I think if they really wanted to pander, they would have come clean and fully admitted it. Shane did say that they removed the Confederates for narrative reasons, adding that both the woke and anti-woke club were unhappy with the decision. It sounds more to me like they're trying to play it safe and tiptoe around any potential landmines that could blow up in their faces. Understandable, given how big their presence has gotten in recent years.

But I could be wrong on all of that, of course 

  Yeah the confederate thing did not seem as cut and dry as critics from both ends tried to make it from what I read at the time.  I agree with you though, unless a company just makes themselves hostile openly to me, I will buy their stuff.  I will also say pinnacle has banked a bit of good will credit with me, so they will have to run me off (though it can be done, as WOTC decided they wanted me gone as a fan). 

Quote from: Ocule on April 15, 2022, 10:10:46 AM
Original pdf for deluxe FC is ten bucks, hard copy I think it 19.99 at msrp. At least for the crowdsource  it is 25 for pdf and 50 for hard copy which includes archetype cards. Pdf archetype cards are worthless and should be just included with the book, hard copy should only be a few a few dollars. It'll probably be 20 for pdf and 40 for a hard copy.

Either way it's a significant price increase from a game where The cost of books was considered cheap. I mean still not at wotc 150 dollar absurdity but still it's pricy for a supplement. It'll depend entirely on how much content they include that wasn't in the old fc to make it worth it. An extra page or two would not be worth it

I'm in the same boat. Savage Worlds is one of my favorite systems to run because of how flexible and simple the rules are, but I held off on backing the Fantasy Comp when I saw the price points. $25 bucks for a digital book?! I'm not sure how they can justify that. I understand the higher price on a physical copy because of all the stupid shit happening in the economy, but a pdf should no more than $15. Less if PEG sticks with their weird 96 page limit.

As for the whole "ancestries" thing, that started with the Pathfinder partnership. I'm assuming they kept it the same for interchangeability purposes. :shrug: At least PEG isn't telling people on their forums to stop using "race", or preventing those in the licencee programs from writing what they want (as long as it adheres to a general "PG13" rating). Still, not sure if this makes the yellow.

Quote from: Effete on April 15, 2022, 09:20:36 PM

Quote from: Ocule on April 15, 2022, 10:10:46 AM
Original pdf for deluxe FC is ten bucks, hard copy I think it 19.99 at msrp. At least for the crowdsource  it is 25 for pdf and 50 for hard copy which includes archetype cards. Pdf archetype cards are worthless and should be just included with the book, hard copy should only be a few a few dollars. It'll probably be 20 for pdf and 40 for a hard copy.

Either way it's a significant price increase from a game where The cost of books was considered cheap. I mean still not at wotc 150 dollar absurdity but still it's pricy for a supplement. It'll depend entirely on how much content they include that wasn't in the old fc to make it worth it. An extra page or two would not be worth it

I'm in the same boat. Savage Worlds is one of my favorite systems to run because of how flexible and simple the rules are, but I held off on backing the Fantasy Comp when I saw the price points. $25 bucks for a digital book?! I'm not sure how they can justify that. I understand the higher price on a physical copy because of all the stupid shit happening in the economy, but a pdf should no more than $15. Less if PEG sticks with their weird 96 page limit.

As for the whole "ancestries" thing, that started with the Pathfinder partnership. I'm assuming they kept it the same for interchangeability purposes. :shrug: At least PEG isn't telling people on their forums to stop using "race", or preventing those in the licencee programs from writing what they want (as long as it adheres to a general "PG13" rating). Still, not sure if this makes the yellow.

I believe the physical book is only like $5 more and you get the pdf with it, might as well do that at this point if you absolutely want it.

Quote from: Effete on April 15, 2022, 09:20:36 PM

Quote from: Ocule on April 15, 2022, 10:10:46 AM
Original pdf for deluxe FC is ten bucks, hard copy I think it 19.99 at msrp. At least for the crowdsource  it is 25 for pdf and 50 for hard copy which includes archetype cards. Pdf archetype cards are worthless and should be just included with the book, hard copy should only be a few a few dollars. It'll probably be 20 for pdf and 40 for a hard copy.

Either way it's a significant price increase from a game where The cost of books was considered cheap. I mean still not at wotc 150 dollar absurdity but still it's pricy for a supplement. It'll depend entirely on how much content they include that wasn't in the old fc to make it worth it. An extra page or two would not be worth it

I'm in the same boat. Savage Worlds is one of my favorite systems to run because of how flexible and simple the rules are, but I held off on backing the Fantasy Comp when I saw the price points. $25 bucks for a digital book?! I'm not sure how they can justify that. I understand the higher price on a physical copy because of all the stupid shit happening in the economy, but a pdf should no more than $15. Less if PEG sticks with their weird 96 page limit.

As for the whole "ancestries" thing, that started with the Pathfinder partnership. I'm assuming they kept it the same for interchangeability purposes. :shrug: At least PEG isn't telling people on their forums to stop using "race", or preventing those in the licencee programs from writing what they want (as long as it adheres to a general "PG13" rating). Still, not sure if this makes the yellow.

  The old fantasy companion is 156 pages, and the Rifts world books are 192 pages, so I would expect it to be in that range (192), though I agree the digital price seems steep.

Quote from: mudbanks on April 15, 2022, 08:58:59 PM

Quote from: Ocule on April 15, 2022, 08:53:51 PM
Going to see where pinnacle goes with this when the companion drops. Not even mad about ancestry as a term but that it might be a sign that they're going in that direction of pandering to Karens on twitter.

TBH I think if they really wanted to pander, they would have come clean and fully admitted it. Shane did say that they removed the Confederates for narrative reasons, adding that both the woke and anti-woke club were unhappy with the decision. It sounds more to me like they're trying to play it safe and tiptoe around any potential landmines that could blow up in their faces. Understandable, given how big their presence has gotten in recent years.

It really seemed like a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. Deadlands had played the whole prolonged Civil War thing pretty close to their chest. Both the Union and the Confeds did some horrible shit, and even though the UCSA was pinned as being slightly worse, the morality angle was very open to interpretation. I mean, slavery was abolished in both countries early on in the War, so everything was really just a border dispute with some good ole fashioned dick measuring thrown in. It was perfectly viable to play as a full Confederate party, and the setting supported that playstyle.

Did they go "woke" by removing that? Hard to tell. I think PEG just realized they'd exhausted all the intrigue the "divided states" had to offer and wanted to start with some fresh ideas. Plenty of people have posted on the forums that they're going to put the UCSA back in and nobody from PEG said anything about it. To me, that's a good sign.

Quote from: oggsmash on April 15, 2022, 09:44:28 PM

Quote from: Effete on April 15, 2022, 09:20:36 PM
I'm in the same boat. Savage Worlds is one of my favorite systems to run because of how flexible and simple the rules are, but I held off on backing the Fantasy Comp when I saw the price points. $25 bucks for a digital book?! I'm not sure how they can justify that. I understand the higher price on a physical copy because of all the stupid shit happening in the economy, but a pdf should no more than $15. Less if PEG sticks with their weird 96 page limit.

As for the whole "ancestries" thing, that started with the Pathfinder partnership. I'm assuming they kept it the same for interchangeability purposes. :shrug: At least PEG isn't telling people on their forums to stop using "race", or preventing those in the licencee programs from writing what they want (as long as it adheres to a general "PG13" rating). Still, not sure if this makes the yellow.

  The old fantasy companion is 156 pages, and the Rifts world books are 192 pages, so I would expect it to be in that range (192), though I agree the digital price seems steep.

Oops. Yeah, I mistyped. 196 page limit. For "printing cost" purposes, PEG doesn't go any higher.

Thanks for catching that.

Quote from: Effete on April 15, 2022, 09:53:24 PM

Quote from: oggsmash on April 15, 2022, 09:44:28 PM

Quote from: Effete on April 15, 2022, 09:20:36 PM
I'm in the same boat. Savage Worlds is one of my favorite systems to run because of how flexible and simple the rules are, but I held off on backing the Fantasy Comp when I saw the price points. $25 bucks for a digital book?! I'm not sure how they can justify that. I understand the higher price on a physical copy because of all the stupid shit happening in the economy, but a pdf should no more than $15. Less if PEG sticks with their weird 96 page limit.

As for the whole "ancestries" thing, that started with the Pathfinder partnership. I'm assuming they kept it the same for interchangeability purposes. :shrug: At least PEG isn't telling people on their forums to stop using "race", or preventing those in the licencee programs from writing what they want (as long as it adheres to a general "PG13" rating). Still, not sure if this makes the yellow.

  The old fantasy companion is 156 pages, and the Rifts world books are 192 pages, so I would expect it to be in that range (192), though I agree the digital price seems steep.

Oops. Yeah, I mistyped. 196 page limit. For "printing cost" purposes, PEG doesn't go any higher.

Thanks for catching that.

  I do not think you are wrong though, they have a whole bunch of books that were 96 pages.  Fantasy companion was quite a bit thicker than most of their other stuff during that time.  I had no idea they were limited to 196 pages these days, but the reasoning makes sense.