Does Steve Jackson Games ranking change due to the following found on the link I posted earlier?  GURPS Classic: Best of Pyramid 1 (Black Lives Matter and also in NAACP Legal Defense Fund 2)

They were already yellow, and Schwalb still hasn't been updated to yellow even for the BLM support, so there's clear inconsistency in the rankings anyway.

Quote from: migo on April 12, 2022, 12:32:46 PM
They were already yellow, and Schwalb still hasn't been updated to yellow even for the BLM support, so there's clear inconsistency in the rankings anyway.

It's a guide not a gospel.  Use your own judgement when purchasing products.

It's definitely a personal judgement thing, for me I like to imagine it as a balance or scale. Some of the entries that might seem a bit odd to include a certain category were discussed in this thread somewhere. I think I kept steve jackson yellow because it doesnt really reflect in their products and they aren't really politically active. Schwalb Entertainment if you want to find the discussion back in the thread, doesnt actively support them or if they do at least publicly. There game lines appeared apolitical.

Like Leopold said, it's not gospel. I included extra information beyond a simple list so people can make up their own minds. It's my opinion though you may disagree, but i like to think i've been fair in my judgements. It originally was for my own reference anyway so unless i'm lying to myself. When DTRPG throws up a sale or someone recommends a game I look back to this project here to see what I thought about it. 

But if you're overlooking that for Shwalb, why not R. Talsorian?

Schwalb if anything was just virtue-signalling. Mike Pondsmith has history with cops, he knows what he's talking about, and made it very clear that there are good cops, and they have been forced into retirement. He's also right in everything he said in his statement.

Quote from: migo on April 12, 2022, 02:22:44 PM
But if you're overlooking that for Shwalb, why not R. Talsorian?

Schwalb if anything was just virtue-signalling. Mike Pondsmith has history with cops, he knows what he's talking about, and made it very clear that there are good cops, and they have been forced into retirement. He's also right in everything he said in his statement.

I mentioned that I dont put every single thing I find in the doc just stuff I find relevant or makes a good point. It's not an exception i'm making for Schwalb and not for RTal. If you want to go down the rabbit hole of RTal you can go on their discord and their storefront you'll find things like the following:

Rocklin Augmentics Cyberchair (aka combat wheelchair)
Woodchippers Garage (WTF is with that art)
Digital Dating in the Dark Future (Gotta have that Representation)
Discord Server has an admin that is a huge sjw, and always peddling trans stuff or stuff like thirsty sword lesbians.

Other stuff they've said or done at times. I actually wanted to categorize them as green because there is plenty of stuff they actually did well though most of what i'd praise is in their history. Pondsmith also does not appear to actually be anti cop, but he has repeated the phrase "everything is political" enough times for me to probably not see eye to eye with him. Anyway they're yellow because some of this craziness shows in the products

Quote from: Ocule on April 12, 2022, 02:59:39 PM

Quote from: migo on April 12, 2022, 02:22:44 PM
But if you're overlooking that for Shwalb, why not R. Talsorian?

Schwalb if anything was just virtue-signalling. Mike Pondsmith has history with cops, he knows what he's talking about, and made it very clear that there are good cops, and they have been forced into retirement. He's also right in everything he said in his statement.

I mentioned that I dont put every single thing I find in the doc just stuff I find relevant or makes a good point. It's not an exception i'm making for Schwalb and not for RTal. If you want to go down the rabbit hole of RTal you can go on their discord and their storefront you'll find things like the following:

Rocklin Augmentics Cyberchair (aka combat wheelchair)
Woodchippers Garage (WTF is with that art)
Digital Dating in the Dark Future (Gotta have that Representation)
Discord Server has an admin that is a huge sjw, and always peddling trans stuff or stuff like thirsty sword lesbians.

Other stuff they've said or done at times. I actually wanted to categorize them as green because there is plenty of stuff they actually did well though most of what i'd praise is in their history. Pondsmith also does not appear to actually be anti cop, but he has repeated the phrase "everything is political" enough times for me to probably not see eye to eye with him. Anyway they're yellow because some of this craziness shows in the products

Maybe you just don't understand Cyberpunk?

None of that stuff should surprise you at all, and it's not inappropriate in the setting in any way. Unlike for instance the wheelchair character in Wolfenstein. It's the future, and you probably are going to see a trannie in a combat wheelchair - gives you mobility without the risk of cyberpsychosis.

A discord server admin who's an SJW is one thing, but then you're apparently ignoring that with Necrotic Gnome/Exalted Funeral.

Is Pondsmith a liberal? Yes. Does he have liberal beliefs? Yes. Is he the type of liberal who thinks conservatives should be completely marginalized for their beliefs? I've seen nothing that puts him there yet.

Quote from: migo on April 12, 2022, 03:43:36 PM

Quote from: Ocule on April 12, 2022, 02:59:39 PM

Quote from: migo on April 12, 2022, 02:22:44 PM
But if you're overlooking that for Shwalb, why not R. Talsorian?

Schwalb if anything was just virtue-signalling. Mike Pondsmith has history with cops, he knows what he's talking about, and made it very clear that there are good cops, and they have been forced into retirement. He's also right in everything he said in his statement.

I mentioned that I dont put every single thing I find in the doc just stuff I find relevant or makes a good point. It's not an exception i'm making for Schwalb and not for RTal. If you want to go down the rabbit hole of RTal you can go on their discord and their storefront you'll find things like the following:

Rocklin Augmentics Cyberchair (aka combat wheelchair)
Woodchippers Garage (WTF is with that art)
Digital Dating in the Dark Future (Gotta have that Representation)
Discord Server has an admin that is a huge sjw, and always peddling trans stuff or stuff like thirsty sword lesbians.

Other stuff they've said or done at times. I actually wanted to categorize them as green because there is plenty of stuff they actually did well though most of what i'd praise is in their history. Pondsmith also does not appear to actually be anti cop, but he has repeated the phrase "everything is political" enough times for me to probably not see eye to eye with him. Anyway they're yellow because some of this craziness shows in the products

Maybe you just don't understand Cyberpunk?

None of that stuff should surprise you at all, and it's not inappropriate in the setting in any way. Unlike for instance the wheelchair character in Wolfenstein. It's the future, and you probably are going to see a trannie in a combat wheelchair - gives you mobility without the risk of cyberpsychosis.

A discord server admin who's an SJW is one thing, but then you're apparently ignoring that with Necrotic Gnome/Exalted Funeral.

Is Pondsmith a liberal? Yes. Does he have liberal beliefs? Yes. Is he the type of liberal who thinks conservatives should be completely marginalized for their beliefs? I've seen nothing that puts him there yet.

Necrotic gnome was a bit of a mystery what did he do? The consensus here is Gavin was pretty fair about no politicking.

And yeah they exist in the future but being front and center in supplements like that is a bit weird for a fringe group. And wheelchairs in general are obsolete by this point due to things like cyberlegs and lab grown tissues if you're rich. Given that people cyberize for the hell of it in cyberpunk the only reason you'd be wheelchair bound is you're too poor to afford cybernetics or your wheelchair is a fashion statement. Also according to Red prosthetic limbs don't cause cyber psychosis unless you shove a grenade launcher in there or flip a truck over.

Gavin fired a guy for his politics. It was discussed earlier in the thread. If there's something that should definitely put you in the yellow, if not red, it's that.

The smith in Orphans of the Sky was also a kind of 'Brawnhilda', so Woodchipper being one is hardly out of place. There's also precedent for trans and gay characters in cyberpunk with Ghost in the Shell, just off the top of my head, and it's definitely not the only one. It's also not that weird - that fringe group is currently front and center for body modifications. And you'd expect trannies to be the first in line for it too, especially full-body conversions, or as close to as possible.

QuoteAlso according to Red prosthetic limbs don't cause cyber psychosis unless you shove a grenade launcher in there or flip a truck over.

Exactly why you want the wheelchair, because of the grenade launcher.

Quote from: migo on April 11, 2022, 02:56:20 PM

Quote from: TheTechnomancer on April 11, 2022, 02:53:36 PM
What About DriveThruRPG?

The way they caved to Evil Hat to boot Desborough's GamerGate card game from the store is definitely not good, the problem is where else are you going to go to buy games? They have a near-monopoly on digital distribution of RPGs and now actually with print distribution too.

Yellow. They did cave a couple of times, and other times (when people tried to go after me, or after James Raggi) they did not give in. They mostly act on fear and whatever they think is the path likely to cause them the least trouble/loss. They're not active pro-censorship fanatics or else neither I nor Venger nor Raggi would be there anymore.

Quote from: migo on April 12, 2022, 04:07:35 PM
Gavin fired a guy for his politics. It was discussed earlier in the thread. If there's something that should definitely put you in the yellow, if not red, it's that.

The smith in Orphans of the Sky was also a kind of 'Brawnhilda', so Woodchipper being one is hardly out of place. There's also precedent for trans and gay characters in cyberpunk with Ghost in the Shell, just off the top of my head, and it's definitely not the only one. It's also not that weird - that fringe group is currently front and center for body modifications. And you'd expect trannies to be the first in line for it too, especially full-body conversions, or as close to as possible.

QuoteAlso according to Red prosthetic limbs don't cause cyber psychosis unless you shove a grenade launcher in there or flip a truck over.

Exactly why you want the wheelchair, because of the grenade launcher.

Ghost in the Shell managed to do it without being cringe or off putting. As for trannies id personally consider it to be a full body conversion and better believe you'd lose humanity for it. But it's basically glorifying mental illness.

Also just carry a damn grenade launcher then, it's alot more convenient than trying to fit it into a massive mobility scooter.

As for Gavin i'd have to go back and look but didnt we conclude that it was not actually the reason for it and theyre still on good terms with each other. I remember there being more to that story because I was ready to dismiss him entirely for that reason alone. That would be instant red.

Note that I'm not saying DTRPG should be on the list. Just that if they were to be included it ought to be yellow, not red. 

Quote from: RPGPundit on April 12, 2022, 04:22:15 PM
Note that I'm not saying DTRPG should be on the list. Just that if they were to be included it ought to be yellow, not red.

Oh for sure, and your assessment of why they do what they do seems pretty accurate. It wouldnt surprise me if one day they did go full crazy but for now, theyre just a soulless corp. Which is not the worst thing that could happen given the current climate.

Quote from: Ocule on April 12, 2022, 04:16:54 PM
Ghost in the Shell managed to do it without being cringe or off putting. As for trannies id personally consider it to be a full body conversion and better believe you'd lose humanity for it. But it's basically glorifying mental illness.

I guess that depends on how sensitive you are to it. Kusanagi was both a lesbian woman and a trans man at different times. And you probably are being overly sensitive to it since it is getting shoved in everywhere. But Cyberpunk is exactly the place they can put that in without ruining it. Gay dating? You can bet your ass there will be some form of Grindr in 2045, and gays will be massively overrepresented because gay men are sluttier than anyone else. Top body count for some of them is over 1000, compared to maybe 200 for the sluttiest woman.

Quote
Also just carry a damn grenade launcher then, it's alot more convenient than trying to fit it into a massive mobility scooter.

You've got it backwards, it's much more convenient to have an auto-targeting grenade launcher built into the mobility scooter you're using anyway.

Quote
As for Gavin i'd have to go back and look but didnt we conclude that it was not actually the reason for it and theyre still on good terms with each other. I remember there being more to that story because I was ready to dismiss him entirely for that reason alone. That would be instant red.

And that's reason for him to be yellow, but not for him to be green. Green should only be for those with no objectionable history. If they have something that makes you wonder, put them in yellow, and let people decide for themselves.

QuoteAnd that's reason for him to be yellow, but not for him to be green. Green should only be for those with no objectionable history. If they have something that makes you wonder, put them in yellow, and let people decide for themselves.

TBH people gonna decide for themselves even in case of red - I'm not gonna stop using Burning Wheel because Ocule is triggered by Luke Crane simping to Saarkeesiaan woman really.
Of course overall problem is rules for this list are ultimately not coherent and mix a lot of things that Ocule does not like.

It's as bad as mono-axis political compasses really. And honestly some explanations for red status just mimic woke cancelling attempts like "Anything with Germain's fingers on it is automatically red" which is basically digging in Monte Cook because you hate his gf, like really?