Quote from: Eirikrautha on September 17, 2021, 06:51:12 AM
Well, at least we've progressed from Alinsky to DARVO.

And yes, living up to your own rules, as defined by your opponents, is a bad thing.  Because they are not trying to help you.  They are trying to tear you down.

Sorry, but when someone with your meager posting history starts sea-lioning (see what I did there), it is incumbent to question their motives.  Especially when they, shortly thereafter begin to champion the accusations of people like Jessica Price, with no evidence whatsoever, and ignore the employees who defended Jeff on the very thread linked here.  You aren't interested in finding out what is really happening here or there.  You're just here to tear down...

I was unaware of the abuse that you had received. I'm sorry to hear about your victimization, I hope that you have a speedy recovery and I apologize for troubling you as you undergo what must be a difficult recovery.

First off, live up to whatever rules you wish. Your life is your own, far be it from me to expect you to adhere to any consistency in your logic.

But if you need to read what I've written but in a voice that might not feel so abusive to you, perhaps you should go back through the posts and see OTHER people with much more extensive posting history, that otherwise don't trouble your fragile worldview by challenging it by having, but never really expressing, alternate opinions. Most of what I said, are pretty obviously non-partisan.

a.) Steve Jackson -- need me to find those posts so that you can read my exact point, but in a different voice?

Here's that same point from that known leftist sockpuppet Oggsmash:

Quote from: oggsmash on September 16, 2021, 05:16:46 PM
  Their forums stay on task, and they are NOT interested in hearing anyone's political hot take from any direction.   They still produce quite a bit of digital stuff for GURPS, and I honestly do not see that many people asking for a new edition of GURPS (well other than an edition where those 1 second rounds are changed), I do see a good number of people asking for more specific game genres "powered by gurps" similar to what they did with dungeon fantasy.    I have also not seen SJ himself do too much to make political noise, so honestly I can stick to enjoying what his company produces (His line editor as well, seems to stay on the topic of games and that is all I have ever seen them talk about on the forum).   

   Their forum has a very apolitical tone, for that alone I see them as green.

Here's another obvious SJW plant, with a long term forum history, so obviously it's only concern trolling that people have made this statement:

Quote from: Aglondir on August 04, 2021, 12:07:13 PM
Steve Jackson Games is Green. They refused to bow to the Cancel Mob over the Bill Webb incident. Phil Reed got a ban (temporary?) for trying to explain to the purple idiots that the disad "slave mentality" in Gurps has zero to do with slavery, but they were too infantile and scared of words to comprehend.

Granted, if you go back through the history, you'll see Ocule saying that he has received other information that he cannot share that justifies that decision. So you'll have to forgive me for being unaware of secret information to understand this, but if you cannot, perhaps you can forgive your fellow veteran forum-goers.

Then next:
b.) Split green category -- don't even need to look hard for this one, can read it on the top of the list itself. IF you don't want to read, and perhaps that's the challenge for you, I can show you several videos from anti-woke fellows who said the same thing.

Give me time, I'll find the exact TIME of the link for this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xQSFKVw1hc


My gosh, some of you are real snowflakes. I didn't understand the exact amount of fragility involved, but ... whoa boy. Doesn't matter what you say, could be "Have a nice day sir" but if it's from someone that hasn't confirmed that they have the party approved doublegoodplus message, it's "We don't want your kind 'round here."

As far as my championing, I did nothing of the sort. I expressed an opinion about an apology that I called a "non-apology" because it was self-contradictory. The very FIRST thing it had was an apology for a thing that my good friend, who obviously has come around to my way of thinking, Shasarak, hadn't yet read but made a comment about.

It said that he had made a mistake by asking out Jessica and went into detail about how it was inappropriate.  So, that was part of the apology.

But then it did this classic evasive "I don't remember if it happened, but if it did, I am unaware" which isn't an apology, it's a deflection. And thus my statement of "non-apology" because, HOW is that an apology?

And there were other things that he also denies, which .. by definition, denying is not an apology.

MY only statement about it was that it was a "storm of fecal matter."  Because I don't know what happened, I don't need to know, it's none of my business. And I asserted that a boycott was unwanted by Jessica, who ... I just repeated words that she wrote, because I can read, and obviously the people WORKING at Paizo don't want a boycott.

So, in total, my statements are ... Pretty unambiguous about only expressing an opinion about the weak apology because, eh, face it. It's the same sort of words that every person who ever gets caught cheating has gone through. Apologize for some, deflect for the rest.

And what gets me is that Mr. Bulmahn might have been better off had he said nothing.

I have another suggestion for the GREEN list: DARK WIZARD GAMES. They do OSR adventures adaptable to most games and clones out there (mainly OSRIC and AD&D). Guy behind it is called Mark Taormino. But there are additional writers. The adventures have all the hallmarks of classic D&D stuff from the 80s including the look/feel (their covers look like the early 3.5 DCC stuff, and inside they're like early TSR modules). Plus, they contain a good measure of attitude, exploitation, nudity and toilet humor. Some are gonzo and most contain spoofs and innuendos. I believe most of their modules are rated M.
Spoke to Mark personally at one time and he came across as a incredibly friendly guy. From the content alone you can tell that he is not into SJW stuff.
The YT channel "captncorajus" has a couple of reviews on Dark Wizard Games' modules.

O and hi everyone. This is my first post although I have been a silent reader for a longer time now.

Quote from: hoshisabi on September 17, 2021, 09:24:35 AM

Quote from: Eirikrautha on September 17, 2021, 06:51:12 AM
Well, at least we've progressed from Alinsky to DARVO.

And yes, living up to your own rules, as defined by your opponents, is a bad thing.  Because they are not trying to help you.  They are trying to tear you down.

Sorry, but when someone with your meager posting history starts sea-lioning (see what I did there), it is incumbent to question their motives.  Especially when they, shortly thereafter begin to champion the accusations of people like Jessica Price, with no evidence whatsoever, and ignore the employees who defended Jeff on the very thread linked here.  You aren't interested in finding out what is really happening here or there.  You're just here to tear down...

I was unaware of the abuse that you had received. I'm sorry to hear about your victimization, I hope that you have a speedy recovery and I apologize for troubling you as you undergo what must be a difficult recovery.

First off, live up to whatever rules you wish. Your life is your own, far be it from me to expect you to adhere to any consistency in your logic.

But if you need to read what I've written but in a voice that might not feel so abusive to you, perhaps you should go back through the posts and see OTHER people with much more extensive posting history, that otherwise don't trouble your fragile worldview by challenging it by having, but never really expressing, alternate opinions. Most of what I said, are pretty obviously non-partisan.

a.) Steve Jackson -- need me to find those posts so that you can read my exact point, but in a different voice?

Here's that same point from that known leftist sockpuppet Oggsmash:

Quote from: oggsmash on September 16, 2021, 05:16:46 PM
  Their forums stay on task, and they are NOT interested in hearing anyone's political hot take from any direction.   They still produce quite a bit of digital stuff for GURPS, and I honestly do not see that many people asking for a new edition of GURPS (well other than an edition where those 1 second rounds are changed), I do see a good number of people asking for more specific game genres "powered by gurps" similar to what they did with dungeon fantasy.    I have also not seen SJ himself do too much to make political noise, so honestly I can stick to enjoying what his company produces (His line editor as well, seems to stay on the topic of games and that is all I have ever seen them talk about on the forum).   

   Their forum has a very apolitical tone, for that alone I see them as green.

Granted, if you go back through the history, you'll see Ocule saying that he has received other information that he cannot share that justifies that decision. So you'll have to forgive me for being unaware of secret information to understand this, but if you cannot, perhaps you can forgive your fellow veteran forum-goers.

Then next:
b.) Split green category -- don't even need to look hard for this one, can read it on the top of the list itself. IF you don't want to read, and perhaps that's the challenge for you, I can show you several videos from anti-woke fellows who said the same thing.





My gosh, some of you are real snowflakes. I didn't understand the exact amount of fragility involved, but ... whoa boy. Doesn't matter what you say, could be "Have a nice day sir" but if it's from someone that hasn't confirmed that they have the party approved doublegoodplus message, it's "We don't want your kind 'round here."

As far as my championing, I did nothing of the sort. I expressed an opinion about an apology that I called a "non-apology" because it was self-contradictory. The very FIRST thing it had was an apology for a thing that my good friend, who obviously has come around to my way of thinking, Shasarak, hadn't yet read but made a comment about.

It said that he had made a mistake by asking out Jessica and went into detail about how it was inappropriate.  So, that was part of the apology.

But then it did this classic evasive "I don't remember if it happened, but if it did, I am unaware" which isn't an apology, it's a deflection. And thus my statement of "non-apology" because, HOW is that an apology?

And there were other things that he also denies, which .. by definition, denying is not an apology.

MY only statement about it was that it was a "storm of fecal matter."  Because I don't know what happened, I don't need to know, it's none of my business. And I asserted that a boycott was unwanted by Jessica, who ... I just repeated words that she wrote, because I can read, and obviously the people WORKING at Paizo don't want a boycott.

So, in total, my statements are ... Pretty unambiguous about only expressing an opinion about the weak apology because, eh, face it. It's the same sort of words that every person who ever gets caught cheating has gone through. Apologize for some, deflect for the rest.

And what gets me is that Mr. Bulmahn might have been better off had he said nothing.

  I look at the list as a guide, like a movie review.  When I am curious as to whether a movie is good, I tend to look to a reviewer who shares my tastes.  I do not expect his/her opinions to be in lockstep with mine, or even to have the exact same criteria for what is good or not.  It is a loose guide, I do not need to agree with every decision to still make use of a guide.  You apparently need hair splitting precision and explanations at every single turn to use what is essentially a guide of a sort.  That honestly looks a whole lot like bad faith. 

Quote from: oggsmash on September 17, 2021, 09:49:02 AM
  I look at the list as a guide, like a movie review.  When I am curious as to whether a movie is good, I tend to look to a reviewer who shares my tastes.  I do not expect his/her opinions to be in lockstep with mine, or even to have the exact same criteria for what is good or not.  It is a loose guide, I do not need to agree with every decision to still make use of a guide.  You apparently need hair splitting precision and explanations at every single turn to use what is essentially a guide of a sort.  That honestly looks a whole lot like bad faith.

See, I haven't. I yielded my only point that you could say was "hair splitting" as soon as Ocule said "I have information I cannot share."  (I might have continued for one or two posts, but you'll have to forgive me for that.)

My continued presence has been just to say "why is it that the words from me are criticized for saying the same thing as people like you?" It's not some sort of tactic, it's just an inability to back out of a conversation because, once again, I am an old doddering fool sometimes.

Quote from: hoshisabi on September 17, 2021, 09:53:31 AM

Quote from: oggsmash on September 17, 2021, 09:49:02 AM
  I look at the list as a guide, like a movie review.  When I am curious as to whether a movie is good, I tend to look to a reviewer who shares my tastes.  I do not expect his/her opinions to be in lockstep with mine, or even to have the exact same criteria for what is good or not.  It is a loose guide, I do not need to agree with every decision to still make use of a guide.  You apparently need hair splitting precision and explanations at every single turn to use what is essentially a guide of a sort.  That honestly looks a whole lot like bad faith.

See, I haven't. I yielded my only point that you could say was "hair splitting" as soon as Ocule said "I have information I cannot share."  (I might have continued for one or two posts, but you'll have to forgive me for that.)

My continued presence has been just to say "why is it that the words from me are criticized for saying the same thing as people like you?" It's not some sort of tactic, it's just an inability to back out of a conversation because, once again, I am an old doddering fool sometimes.

  Because I do have a longer post history (and not all of it going in one direction, I disagree, agree, have arguments and agreements with some of the same people on different subjects at the same time) and whether people think I am right, wrong, off topic, smart, an idiot, or what ever... I have at least presented what ever I say in good faith.  Considering your appearance is with this list, no one here has any history from you to look at, no point of view regarding consistency as to what you say or where you stand, etc.   You are the new guy, and people are not sure if you speak in good faith, or if you are here for other reasons.   Given a few others showed up around the list, and a couple were all out shitbirds, I would expect you could understand that. 

  I have no idea what exactly you are here for.   I do know going on and on about what appears to be attempting to dictate or have every detail explained as to the author of the lists decisions.... does make it look a bit like you are not here in good faith.  But I also know most forums, and certainly this one, has plenty of people (including me) who do enjoy a little froth in the water and some friction.  So you could just simply enjoy argumentation.  Like I said, you are new, came with the list, so I suspect over time that will get ironed out.

Quote from: oggsmash on September 17, 2021, 10:01:32 AM
  Because I do have a longer post history (and not all of it going in one direction, I disagree, agree, have arguments and agreements with some of the same people on different subjects at the same time) and whether people think I am right, wrong, off topic, smart, an idiot, or what ever... I have at least presented what ever I say in good faith. 

Oh, I recognize this. And that's part of why I sought out your post as an example of someone that would be a better messenger of  the point that I was trying to make. When you realize you can't successfully get your point across the line, sometimes you look for someone who can.

Quote
all out shitbirds, I would expect you could understand that. 

That's understood, trust me.

Quote
  I have no idea what exactly you are here for.   I do know going on and on about what appears to be attempting to dictate or have every detail explained as to the author of the lists decisions.... does make it look a bit like you are not here in good faith.  But I also know most forums, and certainly this one, has plenty of people (including me) who do enjoy a little froth in the water and some friction.  So you could just simply enjoy argumentation.  Like I said, you are new, came with the list, so I suspect over time that will get ironed out.

God, I wish I knew what went on in my own brain sometimes. But yes, I do enjoy arguing, and I do enjoy presenting an alternate opinion. I'm not GREAT at it, but whatever, I have time.

I've mostly avoided this forum for the same reason as I've avoided rpg.net. I would probably be in this same situation, maybe perhaps with the politics flipped on a different topic, One thing I am not, is a "shitbird" though. I might be a little flip once in a while, but whatever, it's not as if that is out of place in EVERY form of online communication.

And I know that if what I say is out of place that I recognize that I am here as a guest.

Quote from: hoshisabi on September 17, 2021, 10:14:47 AM

Quote from: oggsmash on September 17, 2021, 10:01:32 AM
  Because I do have a longer post history (and not all of it going in one direction, I disagree, agree, have arguments and agreements with some of the same people on different subjects at the same time) and whether people think I am right, wrong, off topic, smart, an idiot, or what ever... I have at least presented what ever I say in good faith. 

Oh, I recognize this. And that's part of why I sought out your post as an example of someone that would be a better messenger of  the point that I was trying to make. When you realize you can't successfully get your point across the line, sometimes you look for someone who can.

Quote
all out shitbirds, I would expect you could understand that. 

That's understood, trust me.

Quote
  I have no idea what exactly you are here for.   I do know going on and on about what appears to be attempting to dictate or have every detail explained as to the author of the lists decisions.... does make it look a bit like you are not here in good faith.  But I also know most forums, and certainly this one, has plenty of people (including me) who do enjoy a little froth in the water and some friction.  So you could just simply enjoy argumentation.  Like I said, you are new, came with the list, so I suspect over time that will get ironed out.

God, I wish I knew what went on in my own brain sometimes. But yes, I do enjoy arguing, and I do enjoy presenting an alternate opinion. I'm not GREAT at it, but whatever, I have time.

I've mostly avoided this forum for the same reason as I've avoided rpg.net. I would probably be in this same situation, maybe perhaps with the politics flipped on a different topic, One thing I am not, is a "shitbird" though. I might be a little flip once in a while, but whatever, it's not as if that is out of place in EVERY form of online communication.

And I know that if what I say is out of place that I recognize that I am here as a guest.

  Well I can guarantee one thing, on RPGnet you would have been banned about 20 posts ago.

Quote from: oggsmash on September 17, 2021, 10:31:11 AM
  Well I can guarantee one thing, on RPGnet you would have been banned about 20 posts ago.

I nearly got banned from the SJG forum. It was a rules question, I made a point about the language in one of the books being unclear.

Some folks came to the defense of their system and took high offense to me criticizing it at all.

Someone mentions a ban I back off, even if it takes gritting the teeth.

The list makes me laugh my balls off, in one way I hate what is happening in our current time-line, but another side of me loves it for the craziness that comes with it.
Something strangely good will come from the madness of the far left, after they are put in their place that is.

Quote from: hoshisabi on September 17, 2021, 10:35:16 AM

Quote from: oggsmash on September 17, 2021, 10:31:11 AM
  Well I can guarantee one thing, on RPGnet you would have been banned about 20 posts ago.

I nearly got banned from the SJG forum. It was a rules question, I made a point about the language in one of the books being unclear.

Some folks came to the defense of their system and took high offense to me criticizing it at all.

Someone mentions a ban I back off, even if it takes gritting the teeth.

To be honest, I have seen people banned pretty fast on SJG forums.   They are consistent though, they do not tolerate ANY derailing what so ever, and are dogmatic at times in that regard.  What rule/book language were you discussing?

Quote from: oggsmash on September 17, 2021, 11:55:31 AM
  To be honest, I have seen people banned pretty fast on SJG forums.   They are consistent though, they do not tolerate ANY derailing what so ever, and are dogmatic at times in that regard.  What rule/book language were you discussing?

It was GURPS, main rulebook, something about the language for critical failures when you had a high skill.  it was one of those times where you parse "OR" and it could mean either exclusive or informal "or" logic, and I wanted it a little more explicit. I got my answer, but took offense to people baiting me about it. I know better, and shouldn't have needed a reminder to drop it once I got my answer. heh.

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/2724788/tgg-negative-experiences-and-controversies

Should we add the gaming goat to our green list, this guy looks pretty based lol. Not sure if hes just a vender or if he makes stuff.

Also I've gotten a few inquiries about the inclusion of new TSR/Wonderfilled/TSR3 i'm still hazy on what their official company name is though i think they are still using TSR.

Justin La Nasa messaged me a while back when I first started with a statement on free speech and wanted to be included on the green list. I acquiesced but i've been messaged a few times now about the inclusion of New TSR and wanted to hear some feedback on it. On one hand, they really do seem to be good with free speech and have made their views clear of being inclusive of diversity of thought and separating from alot of the politics we see today. Yeah La Nasa ran for office in his state but I really haven't seen any bleed over other than he's a politician. 

As far as content goes they appear to currently be producing Tales and Tots authored by Justin La Nasa and have plans to create more. So thats what seems in favor of their listing and why I included them with green


Now if I correctly understood the argument against their inclusion seems to be that they are using the TSR name for what some people believe to be a cash grab based on nostalgia and someone said something about unfulfilled kickstarters.

Am I missing anything? Because so far it seems like they're a good fit for green because it seems like the backlash was a bit out of proportion but they don't seem to have actually done anything wrong except make a lot of noise without much on the table before hand. Would have done wonders if they had an rpg out or something when they made their announcement other than Tales and Tots which geared towards young children, so it's pretty niche.


On an unrelated note, how involved is Zak S with Lamentations of the Flame Princess and is he even still relevant in the market today?

Has Lanassa/Wonderfilled/TSR3 actually produced stuff that hit shelves/tables, or just have stuff on the way?
He made a big splash, for sure, but one of the qualifications is to actually make stuff.

Unless you want to granulate the green to "honorary green".

Quote from: DM_Curt on September 17, 2021, 01:36:20 PM
Has Lanassa/Wonderfilled/TSR3 actually produced stuff that hit shelves/tables, or just have stuff on the way?
He made a big splash, for sure, but one of the qualifications is to actually make stuff.

Unless you want to granulate the green to "honorary green".

Looks like I could buy it now and there seem to be 4 variants out. I'm not sure what the difference is between them https://tsrmuseum.com/online-store/ols/products/tales-tots-game-book-1st-edition-lizardman

Quote from: Ocule on September 17, 2021, 01:57:11 PM

Quote from: DM_Curt on September 17, 2021, 01:36:20 PM
Has Lanassa/Wonderfilled/TSR3 actually produced stuff that hit shelves/tables, or just have stuff on the way?
He made a big splash, for sure, but one of the qualifications is to actually make stuff.

Unless you want to granulate the green to "honorary green".

Looks like I could buy it now and there seem to be 4 variants out. I'm not sure what the difference is between them https://tsrmuseum.com/online-store/ols/products/tales-tots-game-book-1st-edition-lizardman

Huh. Okay then. That's definitely "produces a RPG product" in some quantity larger than 0, and the name TSR matters.

If there's a quantity requirement for the list, or for different thresholds for different color parts of the list, I'll leave that call up to others.