Quote from: HappyDaze on September 15, 2021, 08:35:38 PM

Quote from: Stephen Tannhauser on September 15, 2021, 07:36:51 PM

Quote from: pawsplay on September 15, 2021, 07:13:53 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on September 15, 2021, 08:54:21 AMIn a deplatforming list like ALL THE PEOPLE complaining about this list make or support ALL THE TIME, they explicitly say "if you buy from this list you are a racist, homophobe sexist fascist nazi and we will come after YOU too for doing so; and in fact we'll come after you if you don't join us in loud public displays of condemning the people on this list, because silence is violence bigot!"

That's a deplatforming list.

How is that any different than saying "if you buy these games you are purchasing from anti-consumer, woke, SJW destroyers of our democratic norms?"

It's the "We will come after YOU" element of it. The coercive threat.

Alerting potential buyers to products you think they shouldn't buy, if they want to be consistent with their principles, is one thing. Demanding that potential sellers stop selling what you think they shouldn't sell, on pain of trying to impact their business because you want them to be consistent with your principles, is quite another.

So if I want to test your theory, what one product should I buy to guarantee that they come after me?

Where Happyderp demonstrates he is trully dumb or arguing on bad faith by "conflating" sellers with buyers. I'm hoping he's just dumb and not this dishonest.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 14, 2021, 07:42:20 PM
The following is me paraphrasing ALL the posts from this individual.

Quote from: hoshisabi on September 14, 2021, 04:23:43 PM

"Wah, wah, wah I don't like you guys being against my totalitarian, puritanical, racist, sexist and anti civilization ideology!
I demand any developer that's against my cult to be put into a special list of my choosing!"

I'm tempted to just reply "That's nice kid, but the grown-ups are trying to chat now." I mean, I still kind of did by typing that, but I want to point out how disrespectful and absolutely unconvincing that it is. Why bother? There's no scoreboard, you don't win any sort of prize for it. And if you're trying to convince someone, it's just going to make them dig their heels in and get absolutely nothing done. Wastes everyone's time.

But, let me try a different route. I can go back through the posts I've made and show you that the very thing I've suggested is literally something that Ocule, RPGPundit, and others have also said "this might be a good idea."

So, it's not my idea, I didn't come up with it, it's theirs. And if it's a good idea from them, but a bad idea from me, you gotta wonder -- what is it about your ideology that it depends on who says a thing whether or not it is a good idea.

And honestly, you still have yet to really understand my worldview. You have the very limited amount of information I've given, and you've seen that I've absolutely NOT shut anyone down, I've actually spoken pretty respectfully to everyone. I've repeatedly said "It's your list, you can say what you want" so the idea that I'm somehow limiting speech is laughable.

So, you had your cheap shot for absolutely zero points, it had very limited effect, and honestly... Why bother? I mean, yeah, I love that scene from the fifth element too. But, it's so barely related to the conversation other than the use of a color word. Heh.

Quote from: hoshisabi on September 15, 2021, 11:14:20 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 14, 2021, 07:42:20 PM
The following is me paraphrasing ALL the posts from this individual.

Quote from: hoshisabi on September 14, 2021, 04:23:43 PM

"Wah, wah, wah I don't like you guys being against my totalitarian, puritanical, racist, sexist and anti civilization ideology!
I demand any developer that's against my cult to be put into a special list of my choosing!"

I'm tempted to just reply "That's nice kid, but the grown-ups are trying to chat now." I mean, I still kind of did by typing that, but I want to point out how disrespectful and absolutely unconvincing that it is. Why bother? There's no scoreboard, you don't win any sort of prize for it. And if you're trying to convince someone, it's just going to make them dig their heels in and get absolutely nothing done. Wastes everyone's time.

But, let me try a different route. I can go back through the posts I've made and show you that the very thing I've suggested is literally something that Ocule, RPGPundit, and others have also said "this might be a good idea."

So, it's not my idea, I didn't come up with it, it's theirs. And if it's a good idea from them, but a bad idea from me, you gotta wonder -- what is it about your ideology that it depends on who says a thing whether or not it is a good idea.

And honestly, you still have yet to really understand my worldview. You have the very limited amount of information I've given, and you've seen that I've absolutely NOT shut anyone down, I've actually spoken pretty respectfully to everyone. I've repeatedly said "It's your list, you can say what you want" so the idea that I'm somehow limiting speech is laughable.

So, you had your cheap shot for absolutely zero points, it had very limited effect, and honestly... Why bother? I mean, yeah, I love that scene from the fifth element too. But, it's so barely related to the conversation other than the use of a color word. Heh.

Lets see:

Yeah, you haven't shut down anyone in a forum where you can't because you lack the power to do so.

I've seen your type come in all humble and respectful asking for very small changes here and there, and that has lead to (so far):

The Atheism+ debacle where the Atheist movement got gutted and lost it's cohesion and strenght.

The Humanist Association now is pro segregation.

Schools in the USA are now segregating students by race.

And the list goes on and on.

If you think you can insult/offend me you'redead wrong, for that I would have to respect you/your opinion (pro tip I don't).

"When I am Weaker Than You, I ask you for Freedom because that is according to your principles; when I am Stronger than you, I take away your Freedom Because that is according to my principles."


The above quote sums your type pretty much.

Quote from: RPGPundit on September 15, 2021, 08:45:39 AM
Defending Free Speech, or loving your country, or believing in democracy, or wanting rule of law to be respected are not "political" views. They are the norms of our civilization.  The left tries to pretend they are contentious views so that they don't look like the absolute freaks they are when they loudly declare their support for banning (or nowadays even burning) books and blocking (or

I'm going to trim your quote because, yes the gist of it is in the first two lines.

You define terms and then judge people by your own definitions, and I think that's a weakness that many folks use to explain away complexity, and it's a form of ideological purity test. (The old "No True Scottsman" fallacy, if something doesn't fit your label, it's obvious that they were lying or somehow it's not the labels fault, but the specific incident.)

That sort of thing leads to "RINO" and "DINO" labels, and causes fractures in the group. You control this location, so obviously your opinion on things has a bit more weight.

But, it's that sort of attitude that made me leave the GOP, despite being a proud member for most of my adult, and all of my childhood.

My friend wanted to get married to his partner, but they were gay. A small government, that my parents and other republicans claim to want, wouldn't give a crap. A first amendment lover would not interfere with a church that was willing to perform that wedding, THEIR religion by THEIR terms shouldn't have interference by the government.

A Republican Congress created a law that the Democrat Bill Clinton signed. That's pretty bipartisan, but I'll tell you what, when Obama took a stand, FINALLY, for it... My Republican friends were suddenly up in arms. (and I proudly was part of the wedding party, happy to see my friends get married, legally, after nearly two decades together.)

Why does the right give a crap? Especially the ATHEISTS on the right, that still has my scratching my head.

And it's a first amendment, free speech, issue dude. Your ability to practice your religion as you believe.

And it's the law of the land, now. And loving the law of the land includes that law too.

I love my country BECAUSE it is willing to change and adapt, and I'm grateful that we have a system that allows people to tweak things as we learn.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 15, 2021, 11:25:49 PM
Yeah, you haven't shut down anyone in a forum where you can't because you lack the power to do so.

Yeah, simple reply:

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman

Quote from: RPGPundit on September 15, 2021, 09:32:57 PM
Sure. Buy my Invisible College, get on twitter, add me on twitter, make a post where you say how you have bought Invisible College and for good measure you could @ me in the tweet. Then watch what happens to your reputation and friends with the leftists.

Is this challenge open to me? I almost guarantee that my "leftist friends" won't think any less of me.

I'm known as a contrarian, they'd know my goal before they finished reading it, though, to be fair. I don't think it would be a good test, but I'd be willing to see.

( I mean, I went out of my way to get all of the Free RPG Day stuff for LMotFP, nearly picked up Red and Pleasant Land if it hadn't hit the shelf the same day as something else I wanted, and I try to limit my expensive purchases to one a week, and by the time I went back it was sold out. People know I buy stuff to mine ideas. Hell, I doubt anyone would be surprised if I bought FATAL, given that I have a copy of HOL and its supplements in my collection already. All of those have a horrible reputation amongst my friends group, but they know I buy such things. Books are books. )

EDIT: Actually probably picking it up either way. I read the description of it and it's one of my favorite genres. Nephilim, KULT, Over the Edge, and all of those types of RPGs were some of my favorites back in the day, and this has that feel like Nephilim with a bit more real world traditions as background details. You got a compelling capsule description, sir.

Keep on farting.

Quote from: hoshisabi on September 15, 2021, 11:54:15 PM
( I mean, I went out of my way to get all of the Free RPG Day stuff for LMotFP, nearly picked up Red and Pleasant Land if it hadn't hit the shelf the same day as something else I wanted, and I try to limit my expensive purchases to one a week, and by the time I went back it was sold out. People know I buy stuff to mine ideas. Hell, I doubt anyone would be surprised if I bought FATAL, given that I have a copy of HOL and its supplements in my collection already. All of those have a horrible reputation amongst my friends group, but they know I buy such things. Books are books. )

I know right.

I nearly picked up Thirsty Sword Lesbians.

Quote from: Shasarak on September 16, 2021, 12:14:33 AM
I nearly picked up Thirsty Sword Lesbians.

LotFP is a weird one too, because I know it got some heat from the anti-woke crowd because of their Free RPG scenario "Better than Any Man." Which, I mean, ... Yeah but no. Definitely no.

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/116452/Better-Than-Any-Man

Quote from: hoshisabi on September 16, 2021, 12:27:56 AM

Quote from: Shasarak on September 16, 2021, 12:14:33 AM
I nearly picked up Thirsty Sword Lesbians.

LotFP is a weird one too, because I know it got some heat from the anti-woke crowd because of their Free RPG scenario "Better than Any Man." Which, I mean, ... Yeah but no. Definitely no.

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/116452/Better-Than-Any-Man

You're new here, so just so you know Shasarak is on the record that "my sarcasm tag is using plain black text."

React accordingly.

Quote from: RPGPundit on September 15, 2021, 09:32:57 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on September 15, 2021, 08:35:38 PM

Quote from: Stephen Tannhauser on September 15, 2021, 07:36:51 PM

Quote from: pawsplay on September 15, 2021, 07:13:53 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on September 15, 2021, 08:54:21 AMIn a deplatforming list like ALL THE PEOPLE complaining about this list make or support ALL THE TIME, they explicitly say "if you buy from this list you are a racist, homophobe sexist fascist nazi and we will come after YOU too for doing so; and in fact we'll come after you if you don't join us in loud public displays of condemning the people on this list, because silence is violence bigot!"

That's a deplatforming list.

How is that any different than saying "if you buy these games you are purchasing from anti-consumer, woke, SJW destroyers of our democratic norms?"

It's the "We will come after YOU" element of it. The coercive threat.

Alerting potential buyers to products you think they shouldn't buy, if they want to be consistent with their principles, is one thing. Demanding that potential sellers stop selling what you think they shouldn't sell, on pain of trying to impact their business because you want them to be consistent with your principles, is quite another.

So if I want to test your theory, what one product should I buy to guarantee that they come after me?

Sure. Buy my Invisible College, get on twitter, add me on twitter, make a post where you say how you have bought Invisible College and for good measure you could @ me in the tweet. Then watch what happens to your reputation and friends with the leftists.

So if I refuse to use Twitter then I'm immune to the whole thing? That's good to know, because I've never used it and never plan to use it.

That's not to say I haven't been tempted to pick up your IC. I wouldn't mind a video about GMing it, particularly any adventure design tips you have in the book.

Quote from: Chris24601 on September 16, 2021, 12:37:07 AM

Quote from: hoshisabi on September 16, 2021, 12:27:56 AM

Quote from: Shasarak on September 16, 2021, 12:14:33 AM
I nearly picked up Thirsty Sword Lesbians.

LotFP is a weird one too, because I know it got some heat from the anti-woke crowd because of their Free RPG scenario "Better than Any Man." Which, I mean, ... Yeah but no. Definitely no.

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/116452/Better-Than-Any-Man

You're new here, so just so you know Shasarak is on the record that "my sarcasm tag is using plain black text."

React accordingly.

I have it under good authority that Shasarak is the God of Sarcasm so I need to live up to his example.

Quote from: RPGPundit on September 15, 2021, 09:32:57 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on September 15, 2021, 08:35:38 PM

Quote from: Stephen Tannhauser on September 15, 2021, 07:36:51 PM

Quote from: pawsplay on September 15, 2021, 07:13:53 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on September 15, 2021, 08:54:21 AMIn a deplatforming list like ALL THE PEOPLE complaining about this list make or support ALL THE TIME, they explicitly say "if you buy from this list you are a racist, homophobe sexist fascist nazi and we will come after YOU too for doing so; and in fact we'll come after you if you don't join us in loud public displays of condemning the people on this list, because silence is violence bigot!"

That's a deplatforming list.

How is that any different than saying "if you buy these games you are purchasing from anti-consumer, woke, SJW destroyers of our democratic norms?"

It's the "We will come after YOU" element of it. The coercive threat.

Alerting potential buyers to products you think they shouldn't buy, if they want to be consistent with their principles, is one thing. Demanding that potential sellers stop selling what you think they shouldn't sell, on pain of trying to impact their business because you want them to be consistent with your principles, is quite another.

So if I want to test your theory, what one product should I buy to guarantee that they come after me?

Sure. Buy my Invisible College, get on twitter, add me on twitter, make a post where you say how you have bought Invisible College and for good measure you could @ me in the tweet. Then watch what happens to your reputation and friends with the leftists.

How dare there be consequences for an action....

Quote from: Eris_Shrugged on September 16, 2021, 06:59:44 AM

Quote from: RPGPundit on September 15, 2021, 09:32:57 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on September 15, 2021, 08:35:38 PM

Quote from: Stephen Tannhauser on September 15, 2021, 07:36:51 PM

Quote from: pawsplay on September 15, 2021, 07:13:53 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on September 15, 2021, 08:54:21 AMIn a deplatforming list like ALL THE PEOPLE complaining about this list make or support ALL THE TIME, they explicitly say "if you buy from this list you are a racist, homophobe sexist fascist nazi and we will come after YOU too for doing so; and in fact we'll come after you if you don't join us in loud public displays of condemning the people on this list, because silence is violence bigot!"

That's a deplatforming list.

How is that any different than saying "if you buy these games you are purchasing from anti-consumer, woke, SJW destroyers of our democratic norms?"

It's the "We will come after YOU" element of it. The coercive threat.

Alerting potential buyers to products you think they shouldn't buy, if they want to be consistent with their principles, is one thing. Demanding that potential sellers stop selling what you think they shouldn't sell, on pain of trying to impact their business because you want them to be consistent with your principles, is quite another.

So if I want to test your theory, what one product should I buy to guarantee that they come after me?

Sure. Buy my Invisible College, get on twitter, add me on twitter, make a post where you say how you have bought Invisible College and for good measure you could @ me in the tweet. Then watch what happens to your reputation and friends with the leftists.

How dare there be consequences for an action....

  That is an action that merits consequences?   If those are the sorts of rules you are willing to live by, good luck to ya when your turn to face up to some consequences comes.

Quote from: hoshisabi on September 15, 2021, 11:41:48 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on September 15, 2021, 08:45:39 AM
Defending Free Speech, or loving your country, or believing in democracy, or wanting rule of law to be respected are not "political" views. They are the norms of our civilization.  The left tries to pretend they are contentious views so that they don't look like the absolute freaks they are when they loudly declare their support for banning (or nowadays even burning) books and blocking (or

I'm going to trim your quote because, yes the gist of it is in the first two lines.

You define terms and then judge people by your own definitions, and I think that's a weakness that many folks use to explain away complexity, and it's a form of ideological purity test. (The old "No True Scottsman" fallacy, if something doesn't fit your label, it's obvious that they were lying or somehow it's not the labels fault, but the specific incident.)

That sort of thing leads to "RINO" and "DINO" labels, and causes fractures in the group. You control this location, so obviously your opinion on things has a bit more weight.

But, it's that sort of attitude that made me leave the GOP, despite being a proud member for most of my adult, and all of my childhood.

My friend wanted to get married to his partner, but they were gay. A small government, that my parents and other republicans claim to want, wouldn't give a crap. A first amendment lover would not interfere with a church that was willing to perform that wedding, THEIR religion by THEIR terms shouldn't have interference by the government.

A Republican Congress created a law that the Democrat Bill Clinton signed. That's pretty bipartisan, but I'll tell you what, when Obama took a stand, FINALLY, for it... My Republican friends were suddenly up in arms. (and I proudly was part of the wedding party, happy to see my friends get married, legally, after nearly two decades together.)

Why does the right give a crap? Especially the ATHEISTS on the right, that still has my scratching my head.

And it's a first amendment, free speech, issue dude. Your ability to practice your religion as you believe.

And it's the law of the land, now. And loving the law of the land includes that law too.

I love my country BECAUSE it is willing to change and adapt, and I'm grateful that we have a system that allows people to tweak things as we learn.

The right and "center", globally, remains censorious and opposed to individual liberty.

Pundit will claim that the left is censorious, but the reality is that for much of modern history, the right has been opposed to, or indifferent to, free speech. Meanwhile the left has led on almost every major free speech issue in history.

At this time, is is far right Christian movements that have led anti-free speech campaigns against pornography, it is the capitalist class who systematically attacked the free association and free speech of workers trying to unionise, it is the right who are introducing laws designed to suppress protest and strikes. It is the right who prop up intellectual property. It is the right that suppress the speech ( and  sufferage) of prisoners

Meanwhile, the speech he spends his time worrying about is the fact that people use their free speech to be critical of things, and that sometimes leads to consequences for dickheads