So I think everyone and their pet dog thinks that Cyberpunk V3 was a steaming pile of dog turd. Agreed? Everything about was wrong. The art, the typeface, the writing, the setting. Everything.

I am resurrecting CP2020 for my group as we're longing for a good heavy combat with an easy system in a Cyberpunk world. We dropped Cyberpunk several years ago due to feelings that we'd done all we could do with the game (we'd been playing it pretty much constantly for ten years, twice a week). Now my love for that type of game has been reborn shall we say. I've tried to present newer but similar games to my group (Shadowrun - didn't like the fantasy races; SLA Industries - thought the concept was a one-trick pony; Corporation - too over-powered even for Cyberpunk and too SLAish). So we've decided to dust off the old CP2020 books and the entire library of supplements and give it a go again.

It appears to me that the old Interlock rules were pretty good and fairly robust (IMO) in that they work today very well and are pretty generic too (it doesn't take much tweaking to use them in any type of game - although they obviously work best in a modern/sci-fi setting). So they don't really need changing much. Except the age-old humanity loss rules which we could debate forever and a day. I'm dropping those because I know better now how silly those rules are.

I thought, still do in fact think, the world of 2020 was superb. Night City was a great playground and the corporations were well fleshed out bullies. The game was gritty CYBERpunk and not ANIMEpunk (which is essentially what I think is the crux of the problem with the V3 setting).

But it has got me thinking. If you had been Mike Pondsmith and in charge of V3 what would you have done with the setting. Forget the rules. They don't need too much changing. But how would you have progressed the setting world? What SHOULD V3 have been like for you?

Personally I would've scrapped the whol 4th Corporate War for a start. Or at least not had it so devastating. It just got silly. I'd have had the governments lead a coalition of other corps (like IEC, EBM, Petrochem, SovOil and MA&F) slap down Militech and Arasaka and tell them to behave. Not unfeasible given that Arasaka and Militech would rely on those corps for some things they couldn't produce for themselves. The corps then could enter into a period of subtle cold war esque power plays whilst the world breathed a sigh of relief that a modern Cuban Missile Crisis that was the fledgling war had been averted.

I'd still let the Highriders in the O'Neill colonies have their independence and bit of an orbital war. Merely because it was a cool plot point and could make for another form of a "cold war" between Earth and it's colonies in space and on the Moon.

As for tech. Definitely would've updated that to something more in keeping with the direction we now know the twenty first century tech is going to follow. Keep some of the microtech stuff like nanotech and ramp up the bioengineering stuff. Lots more of the wifi world and instant data communications. Cybernetics could still exist but more compact and subtle. Less blatant. Oh and lets loose the Full Body Modifications and ACPAs please. This Cyberpunk not mini Robot Jox.

Ummm... so anything to add folks.

I would have likely worked on the Nihilistic Heroism vibe of many of the original cyberpunk stories, almost "We who are about to die....will change the world..!"

I'd likely have had the tech upgraded to be just a thirty years from now, and ignore the past tech of Cyberpunk--instead resetting the "Cyberpunk" setting to 2037 and creating the various events that cause society to become that future.

Instead of maintaining "80's Cyberpunk" history, work from the 07 forward building a universe similar to those found in cyberpunk novels, built on real world predictions.

I'm currently running a 2020 game set in the Middle East, using stuff from the When Gravity Fails sourcebook. So, I would have liked the third edition of Cyberpunk to be set in a different location. I'm thinking Africa, South America...Russia. Also, I think (and I know I'm going to be chased out of Dodge for this... ) it would have been cool to use certain elements from the Cybergeneration sourcebook. I think by setting the game in a foreign location you could retain the original attitude but there would be enough of a twist to make the whole thing seems fresh. I doubt anyone would be interested in such a game though.

Regards,
David R

Quote from: JonASo I think everyone and their pet dog thinks that Cyberpunk V3 was a steaming pile of dog turd. Agreed? Everything about was wrong. The art, the typeface, the writing, the setting. Everything.

I don't mean to be difficult, but I don't think that Cv3 was a steaming pile of dog turd.  No doubt that they took a big risk with the art and it didn't work.  And the layout makes my eyes bleed.  But looking past these and I think you'll find a stack of interesting ideas.  I don't know if they pull together to make a coherent setting, but if you are piecing together your own world, you can definitely pinch some of the material.

I am federally obligated not to start talking about cyberpunk, because when I do, I don't stop.  Worse, what I say is generally boring, and also it gets me all worked up about how much I love the genre but can't get my stuff together to actually run a game and then I think about the screen plays and the movies I never made and The Matrix and Duran Duran and New Romanticism and the neon and TRON and then I cry like Morrissey.

Actually, I'm currently watching the second series/gig/ejaculate of Ghost in the Shell Stand Alone Complex and the thing that occured to me is that the idea of invariably doing cyberpunk with incredibly fetishistic crunchy rules is just wrong.

Cyberpunk's about mood and action.

I'd do it with something like over the edge or Risus where you create your own skills.

Quote from: Mr. Analytical[T]he idea of invariably doing cyberpunk with incredibly fetishistic crunchy rules is just wrong.

Cyberpunk's about mood and action.

Moods are up to the GM, but I go with optimism...with, of course, lots of grim to make it really shine.

NO, ROTWANG!  STAY AWAY FROM THE CYBERPUNK THREAD!

I'd make a neo-noir style game. Lots of double-crossing, doomed romances, misplaced guilt/innocence and shadowy deals. And then, once everything was perfect, I'd set it in the future.

- J

A game idea I'd like to tackle one of these days would be a crime/noir game set in post-WWII Paris, using French terms for everything.

Quote from: Jared A. SorensenI'd make a neo-noir style game. Lots of double-crossing, doomed romances, misplaced guilt/innocence and shadowy deals. And then, once everything was perfect, I'd set it in the future.

Soundtrack by DEVO, The Faint, Ladytron and Gary Num--

I CAN'T STOP

Quote from: Mr. AnalyticalActually, I'm currently watching the second series/gig/ejaculate of Ghost in the Shell Stand Alone Complex and the thing that occured to me is that the idea of invariably doing cyberpunk with incredibly fetishistic crunchy rules is just wrong.
 
Cyberpunk's about mood and action.
 
I'd do it with something like over the edge or Risus where you create your own skills.

I made the exact same mistake.  After becoming disatisfied with the CP2020 rules, I went in search of alternatives and I'd always believed that the gritty nature of cyberpunk meant a crunchy ruleset was a must.
 
But Cyberpunk is about style over substance.  Over the Edge would definitely work.  Risus might even work with a good group.  But I think I'd like to try Fudge.  It's simple, it's slick and it can be gritty when you want it and light and fluffy when I don't.  Plus, I have some neat ideas for using the scale rules to simulate the artificial reality of the 'net.
 
Oh yes.... one day.  I shall run it.  One day.

I just liked the idea of a Ghost in the Shell game whereby having a "full body cyborg prosthesis" skill would essentially make you incredibly strong, agile and able to run for hours.  That strikes me as far more fun and far more in keeping with the spirit of the genre than having a pool of money and cobbling together a full-body prosthesis using the Chrome handbooks.

I wouldn't say that Cyberpunk was style over substance though... there's plenty of substance to cyberpunk.  It's just that it's not a genre that focuses on things rather than more abstract concerns.

Quote from: Jared A. SorensenI'd make a neo-noir style game. Lots of double-crossing, doomed romances, misplaced guilt/innocence and shadowy deals. And then, once everything was perfect, I'd set it in the future.

- J

A game idea I'd like to tackle one of these days would be a crime/noir game set in post-WWII Paris, using French terms for everything.

As would I, and I would also play Rififi (which is basically what Jared is talking about in that last para whether he knows it or not) in a heartbeat.

Back more on topic, I actually think JonA's is a good way to do it, update a few elements, keep the core bits of the setting if the setting appeals, take out the more obviously extreme bits of cyberware.

The game ain't really broke, so it doesn't much need fixing.  Not sure any of this helps Jon though.

Oh, and Jon, welcome aboard.

Quote from: Mr. AnalyticalI wouldn't say that Cyberpunk was style over substance though... there's plenty of substance to cyberpunk.  It's just that it's not a genre that focuses on things rather than more abstract concerns.

Agreed.

Quote from: SilverlionInstead of maintaining "80's Cyberpunk" history, work from the 07 forward building a universe similar to those found in cyberpunk novels, built on real world predictions.

I disagree. We haven't burned all our copies of 2001 because we didn't really discover monoliths on the moon six years ago, after all.

I would have kept the core assumptions of the main rulebook as far as setting goes the same as CP2020: Night City is a decent enough environment for running adventures with a Gibson/Sterling feel.

Then I'd go the When Gravity Fails route: rather than having supplements which develop and confuse and add metaplot to the Night City universe, have supplements for running Cyberpunk campaigns in specific novels' universes. That's how you keep up-to-date with current cyberpunk fiction without losing the "classic Cyberpunk feel" in the core rules. I would love to see supplements for, say, Snow Crash by Neal Stephenson or Jeff Noon's Vurt universe.

Oh, also if I was in charge of the Cyberpunk product line I'd junk the netrunning rules and replace them with something which involves all the characters. (Fixers for identity theft, corporates to get front accounts in corporate computer systems from which netrunning attacks can be made, netrunners themselves to tie it all together, that sort of thing.) One thing I love about the Dickensian cyberpunk of A|State is that there's no "virtual reality internet"; data theft requires detective work, breaking-and-entering, and occasionally physically stealing disk drives.

Quote from: WarthurI disagree. We haven't burned all our copies of 2001 because we didn't really discover monoliths on the moon six years ago, after all.

I'm no expert in the genre but much of cyberpunk as I have encountered it seems to hinge on looking at the future as the present, only worse.  To run a cyberpunk game for ordinary (non-hardcore cyberpunk fan) gamers, going the route of a faux past will only undermine that idea of the future and create confusion.

Also not reading a fixed artifact like a book and building a campaign setting for purposes of actual play do not exactly correlate in my eye.  In fact, I'd say one was like an apple and the other was like a rutabaga.