Learning curve

Quadrante · April 05, 2019, 02:40:38 PM

What would you say is the way you would be shortening the learning curve, the thing you do or the thing you would want to see, I am not talking about making the rules easier, just how to ease the learning of rules ...

trechriron · April 05, 2019, 03:48:26 PM

FFG's Star Wars boxed sets were perfect. Pre-made characters, an adventure that puts you right into the action/fun and teaches you parts of the games as it progresses. I ran all 3 at a con and had universally positive responses.

Quadrante · April 05, 2019, 04:40:13 PM

Hmm, I should check that out. Intros is always good.

Omega · April 05, 2019, 04:41:42 PM

I wouldnt try for most games as there is just too much variance in learning from player to player and if you dumb things down its going to put off some players.

Instead have a walkthrough of character creation somewhere in the book. Step by step. This REALLY helps some players get a handle on how things are done without being condescending to their intelligence. An example of a combat is also good to have in there too.

Quadrante · April 06, 2019, 01:52:23 AM

A summary/index of rules, intro scenarios and a step by step guide for important parts. ... is the tips so far, seems solid!

Shawn Driscoll · April 06, 2019, 02:01:17 AM

Quote from: Quadrante;1082398What would you say is the way you would be shortening the learning curve, the thing you do or the thing you would want to see, I am not talking about making the rules easier, just how to ease the learning of rules ...

Don't make the game mechanics hard to find.

moonsweeper · April 06, 2019, 03:36:47 AM

Quote from: trechriron;1082406FFG's Star Wars boxed sets were perfect. Pre-made characters, an adventure that puts you right into the action/fun and teaches you parts of the games as it progresses. I ran all 3 at a con and had universally positive responses.

These were very good, at least the first 2 since I never tried the Force one. Their setup was near perfect.
Even though I now despise the system for running a 'Star Wars' game, I have to agree that the boxed sets were some of the best intro sets I have seen.

BronzeDragon · April 06, 2019, 05:02:39 AM

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;1082469Don't make the game mechanics hard to find.

Fucking this.

I'm honestly tired of badly edited books that jumble tables and rules around and are apparently trying their damndest to confuse the reader.

Every core rulebook should also have all its tables collated at the end of the book and divided by their relationship to the rules. I guess this one would reduce the need for a DM Screen, and therefore would reduce profits...

Quadrante · April 06, 2019, 06:07:30 AM

Quote from: BronzeDragon;1082479Fucking this.

I'm honestly tired of badly edited books that jumble tables and rules around and are apparently trying their damndest to confuse the reader.

Every core rulebook should also have all its tables collated at the end of the book and divided by their relationship to the rules. I guess this one would reduce the need for a DM Screen, and therefore would reduce profits...

I think this is key, there should be something like this in any ruleset. But, I do not think this is due to profit, more lack if rules writing skill or bad choice of page count cuts.

Steven Mitchell · April 06, 2019, 08:21:47 AM

Once you've made the rules easy to find, include nearby more examples of those rules in play, written in a way that is a realistic approach to how the rules work. Too many examples are written with what the authors had in mind but failed to deliver. (Or didn't care, because they were fudging their own rules in play.)

The AD&D 1E and Basic D&D examples of combat and exploration are good illustrations of how to avoid that trap. Showing a character getting killed in some gruesome fashion let you know what was expected. RQ combat examples are particularly notable for being out of line with the system.

finarvyn · April 06, 2019, 10:08:22 AM

What I hate the most is a game where the jargon gets in the way of learning the game. There are some games I've played where I read the rulebook, thought "this makes no sense," then when I played the game it was simple.

The perfect intro game would have quickstart rules, pregen character sheets, and an intro adventure to get you started. Then you can start to add in stuff as you go. The FFG Star Wars sets are actually pretty easy to play, even with their funky dice, but the core rulebooks make me fall asleep. I figure if I can't understand a set of quickstart rules, I have no prayer to understand the complete rules (as well as no desire to try).

Alexander Kalinowski · April 06, 2019, 10:50:46 AM

Quote from: finarvyn;1082500The perfect intro game would have quickstart rules,

Cheque.

Quote from: finarvyn;1082500pregen character sheets,

Czech.

Quote from: finarvyn;1082500and an intro adventure to get you started.

Working on it.

I also have cheat sheets for the GM/players.

But the thread made me realize another thing would be beneficial and I'll probably add it to the next version of the Quickstart rules: a one page introductory summary for experienced gamers, as an at-a-glance presentation of how the rules work. So that you can see on one page if you like what the system does (and how it does it) or if you can put aside the game safely because it's not your thing.

Quadrante · April 07, 2019, 05:51:27 AM

Quote from: Alexander Kalinowski;1082503... a one page introductory summary for experienced gamers, as an at-a-glance presentation of how the rules work. So that you can see on one page if you like what the system does (and how it does it) or if you can put aside the game safely because it's not your thing.

Yes! This was a good one. But what does one want there? Sample rule snippets, summery, categories ...

Alexander Kalinowski · April 07, 2019, 07:23:51 AM

For me: How does a basic test work, how does initiative order work, what's the action economy like, how does attacking/parrying/damage work. How does magic work. All in 2 or 3 sentences each. So that it's possible to decide within 30 to 60 seconds if the system is for you.

Quadrante · April 08, 2019, 07:53:56 AM

I will give this a test. You do not need to tell if you like the game style, but do tell what you are lacking in the description.

Quote from: Rule summeryIn this game, you roll six-sided dice and allocate them to get a final combat result. This combat result is both your chance to avoid being struck by any opponents and your chance to land a blow at ONE opponent. Combat results are compared between players to see who succeeds with its onfall. Turn order and actions may interfere, distance and protection may change the level of fatigue and damage.

Independent of how many dice you roll, ONE of the combat dice is chosen as your base combat value. The rest of the dice will be used to either increase this value or to be used as additional actions.

Instead of, or at the same time as your general melee, you may attempt various actions. Dice will, in this case, be used as actions instead of as part of a combat result.

At the beginning of every new turn, you reroll all of your available combat and bonus dice and change your turn order. Priority of placed dice, onfalls, defences and actions are resolved in turn order. Your fighting style will determine your turn order and actions may change it.

The aim of this game is to both be a tool in a narrative and like a game of duelling, you would even be able to play this as a regular board game, player versus player, teams versus teams or in a Battle Royal style.

To aid you there will be available cards to visualize and display your decisions, both to yourself and other players.