Quote from: Levi Kornelsen;414863People keep claiming for me that I'm reasonable and nice, as if I have only one mood.  I think that's complimentary, but it is a pretty one-dimensional slice.  I try to be reasonable while I'm there; that's how the site is oriented.

Care to define the real you, Levi?

Quote from: Levi Kornelsen;414863A) RPGnet: I'm here to be reasonable, and engage in reasoned stuff.

People keep claiming for me that I'm reasonable and nice, as if I have only one mood.  I think that's complimentary, but it is a pretty one-dimensional slice.  I try to be reasonable while I'm there; that's how the site is oriented.

We had a guy here once called Tony LB.

You're channelling him in this thread. Caught in a lie, he'd act all reasonable and "can't we get along?" In the end i ate his liver with a fine chianti. (well, ok, that's a lie). But i think there's a point.

Quote from: JongWK;414865Care to define the real you, Levi?

The tall guy obsessing over some burning game idea, anticipating the next game of whatever.  Pretty good at dancing for a nightclub patron, fan of twangy music, who would really like to understand how large groups of people work.  Wishes he could study Psychohistory, but it doesn't exist.  Often forgets to shave; wears solid dark colors, no logos or patterns.  Owns way, way too many decks of playing cards.  Raised in a preacher's house; abandoned his faith in Bible College and became something else entirely.  Has bad habits he wishes he didn't - trying to quit smoking, fights too much on the internet, loves greasy food.  Much more.

...A collection of bits.  Like anyone.  Or, if you prefer, a quick identity list:

Gamer, Boyfriend, Tinkerer, Fanboy, Divorcee, Ex-Religious, Cat Owner, Couch Potato, Loudmouth, Forumite.   Many more.

If you mean some special, vaunted, and singular central identity, meh.  That's silly.

Quote from: One Horse Town;414866We had a guy here once called Tony LB.

You're channelling him in this thread. Caught in a lie, he'd act all reasonable and "can't we get along?" In the end i ate his liver with a fine chianti. (well, ok, that's a lie). But i think there's a point.

There is a point, yes.   I do owe the forum as a whole here an apology for mistreatment.  Whether folks believe me that it came from misjudgment, or maintain that it's a product of malice, that remains the case.

Apologies, folks.

Quote from: Levi Kornelsen;414838Dude, do you remember any of the threads I've tried to start or join?  

As I recall, half of them died with minimal anything

If half the threads you start get a few posts, then you're doing well. That's the nature of a forum, whether here or at rpg.net, whether about rpgs or something else. A forum is just a conversation, and when you bring up a topic at a party, sometimes you have a great conversation about it, sometimes no-one's really interested, sometimes they would be normally but aren't today, or happen to be listening to something more interesting, and so on.

That's the nature of conversations in a large group. Sometimes they launch off, usually they fizzle.

If people get threatened with being chucked out for saying things like "you're moving the goalposts", well, the fizzle is a lot more likely. That's what made the atmosphere at rpg.net and the Forge so stifling, and why so little in productive ideas come out of those places.

Interesting that Levi tells us that's the culture of rpg.net, that's why you can't just talk like normal people. Which raises the question, why? Why is it we manage here with normal speech, but rpg.net couldn't possibly survive five minutes with it? Does it really all come down to not wanting to hurt the feelings of the transgendered socialist furries, or what?

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;414870If half the threads you start get a few posts, then you're doing well.

Hey Kyle, got a thread to start? I'm short on ideas this week and a couple more threads would be good for draining the pus out of this one.

Seriously, I don't see where the problem is. Maybe I'm missing some nuances of the English language. I don't have any special like or dislike for Levi, but this is weird even for this place.

I work as a trainer for different companies. I some training courses, it is appropriate a necessary to wear a suit and a tie. In some others, it is not and I need to dress casually. In some training courses, swearing is verboten. In some others, a bit of swearing can create rapport with the audience (we Spaniards tend to swear a lot). So, I adjust my behaviour to the rules of the place I am in, and the persons I'm interacting with.

What Levi is saying is that he behaves differently according to the place he is. How is that worth discussing? It is like saying I should behave in the exact same way disregarding at which company I am teaching. It's ridiculous.

Levi forbids the fights and calling other people cunts on RPG.net because those are the rules there, and here is par for the course so he enjoys that, In different places he enjoys different things. There's nothing hypocritical or incoherent on that.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;414870If half the threads you start get a few posts, then you're doing well. That's the nature of a forum, whether here or at rpg.net, whether about rpgs or something else.

That really, really doesn't match my experience on RPGnet, before, as, or between times as a mod.

Quote from: jeff37923;414864You view the distinction as a boundary for your own situational behavior while I view the distinction as a thin justification for a lack of integrity on your part.

Dude, again, this is really hypocritical and absurd on your part, Jeff. No one behaves like that, so I can't see the point of demanding that fictitious integrity from someone when I am pretty sure you have different behaviours according to the place you are at.

Quote from: JongWK;414865Care to define the real you, Levi?

Dude, you are posting this in a place run by an imaginary persona that is claiming an imaginary victory in an imaginary war over some people that have never met him in person, and over who he holds zero influence. My irony meter just broke

Also, Gleichman makes a very interesting post on this matter:

http://whitehall-paraindustries.blogspot.com/2010/11/outcome-in-swine-wars.html

As he says, if this is what the Pundit calls a victory, defeat must be a real bitch

Quote from: Imperator;414876an imaginary war

Two people believed it. Both have claimed victory.

I act differently when I'm in a hospital or a funeral home than when I'm at a bar. I act differently when I'm at the Lodge than when I'm at the pipe club.

Social adaptation is logical and necessary.
But what doesn't change is my base opinions.  My fundamental nature. Nor do I act differently in one RPG related forum than another, going so far as to promote and defend one idea in one place as a positive and then engage in activity that would seemingly reject this principle in another place.
I think that's what's confusing people about Levi here.

RPGPundit

Quote from: Imperator;414876Also, Gleichman makes a very interesting post on this matter:

http://whitehall-paraindustries.blogspot.com/2010/11/outcome-in-swine-wars.html

As he says, if this is what the Pundit calls a victory, defeat must be a real bitch

A pretty pathetic post by a pretty pathetic dude.  I mean shit, If I'm France and Edwards is Great Britain, then Gleichman must be like, Serbia or something. He's a non-starter, a non-entity that never amounted to anything.
He says both me and Edwards could have been more than what we were; that's disputable, but what isn't in dispute is that Gleichman clearly couldn't have been anything more than what he was, which is sad.

As for "defeat", its relative.  WotC is a mess right now, but as even Gleichman recognizes it has fuck all to do with Edwards, and everything to do with the incompetence of the people running WotC.
Meanwhile, Swine-Theory games have all but disappeared from the radar.  No one is suggesting that the Mountain Witch or Dogs in the Vinyard or the Shab Al-hiri Roach were the Way of the Future, as they were suggesting only a few years ago. The Forge has been resoundingly defeated in the war of ideas.  In the meantime, what is the major force in RPG-thinking that has arisen in these last few years? The Old School Renaissance; which, whatever issues I may have with it aside, is a bastion of rejecting the mentality of everything the Forge stands for and promoting exactly the kind of Regular Roleplaying I have been defending all along.  Games, ESPECIALLY INDEPENDENTLY PUBLISHED GAMES THAT WERE SUPPOSED TO BE THE FORGE'S "KINGDOM" (I can't stress that enough) are going away from the mentality of Forge-pretentiousness and into the dominance of regular RPG fun.
Most of those who were Forge "kool-aid drinkers" are now Sell-outs by the standards of the Forge circa 2005. If you took a time machine and went back only five years ago, the Forgies would be fucking APPALLED by what has come about: with the hardcore half of their membership sunken into obscurity and the other half having given up all their radical principles to create regular RPGs for profit-motive.

That's the reality of the situation: that the War had terrible costs is no doubt true, but the one side is broken and bankrupt with no visible future, while the other is not only still standing but is the way things are moving toward in the foreseeable future.

RPGpundit

Since the demise of the Forge I have decided to sign up @ RPGNet to check it out. Between RPGSite & Forge all my bases were covered so it will be interesting to see how RPGNet plays out.

The one post Benoist dug-up was a bit damning but I don't know the whole of it so...?
Levi seems like an agreeable fellow if his posts here are genuine. He has admitted his myopic tendencies in a coherent and reasonable manner from what I can see...and we all do the "When in Rome" bit,this life demands no less.

I ignore the petulant and obfuscatory blather that sometimes happens here because there is some AWESOME gaming advice,PbP opportunities and comedy to boot. All things considered this site KICKS ASS.

From my nube perspective Pundy seems like a fair mod. and his mod persona may well be just that. A persona he adopts for shock value. I think he is funny for the most part with some neat insights into gaming. I can see how some would be put off by his style and I can't say if that is good or bad for the site overall.

All personal stuff aside perhaps Levi has some interesting things to say about RPG's etc...which is why we are here?

Quote from: Imperator;414873Seriously, I don't see where the problem is. Maybe I'm missing some nuances of the English language. I don't have any special like or dislike for Levi, but this is weird even for this place.

I work as a trainer for different companies. I some training courses, it is appropriate a necessary to wear a suit and a tie. In some others, it is not and I need to dress casually. In some training courses, swearing is verboten. In some others, a bit of swearing can create rapport with the audience (we Spaniards tend to swear a lot). So, I adjust my behaviour to the rules of the place I am in, and the persons I'm interacting with.

What Levi is saying is that he behaves differently according to the place he is. How is that worth discussing? It is like saying I should behave in the exact same way disregarding at which company I am teaching. It's ridiculous.

Levi forbids the fights and calling other people cunts on RPG.net because those are the rules there, and here is par for the course so he enjoys that, In different places he enjoys different things. There's nothing hypocritical or incoherent on that.

nicely put...

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;414638I mean, de-modding Dan Davenport? Seriously? I had no idea he was right-wing, left-wing, or whatever - he's just mild-mannered and reasonable. And he's said what I've said for a long time - Tangency began as just part of the friction of the machine, but the friction came to have its own machine.

I appreciate that, Kyle. I have to confess, though, that Tangency tended to bring out my combative side more often than I'd like. I guess there's only so many topics a guy can see describing how much his kind sucks before blowing a gasket.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;414638Most of the moderation rules came about because of stuff in Tangency. Furries and all that shit. You don't really need a heap of rules and regulations when people are discussing THAC0.

Probably not, although I always say that the right thing to do depends upon the effect you want. I enforce pretty strict rules in #rpgnet chat, and the locals seem to like it that way. If you enjoy cussing at the top of your virtual lungs, though, you probably won't.

The problem I see with the moderation at RPGnet is the fact that it's inconsistent. Just look at the topics on any given day in Tangency slamming anyone to the right of Michael Moore, none of which are considered inflammatory. Then watch what happens when someone dares to post something equivalent from a different perspective. The goal of moderation is peace, not fairness -- essentially, because the Left dominates Tangency, it's mob rule. The Left is the squeaky wheel that gets the grease.

That said, I hate to see Levi dogpiled here. In my experience, he really is a good guy.