Well, with DCC Lankhmar announced, and Savage Lankhmar still in the works, it looks like there will be some Lieber Roleplaying goodness to be had. The most interesting thing to see for me will be how the systems adjust to Nehwon, which isn't as manically Pulp!!! as SW or as relentlessly gonzo as DCC.
With fickle priests ignoring prayers and a magic system with side effects that could turn a human into something like Sheelba or Ningauble, plus the Patrons system, I'd have to say DCC looks like a better fit then SW out of the box, but in either case it will depend on whether the book is the system with a thin coat of Nehwon paint or a true reimagining of the system with respect to the setting.
What's your ideal Lankhmar RPG?
Quote from: CRKrueger;822818Well, with DCC Lankhmar announced, and Savage Lankhmar still in the works, it looks like there will be some Lieber Roleplaying goodness to be had. The most interesting thing to see for me will be how the systems adjust to Nehwon, which isn't as manically Pulp!!! as SW or as relentlessly gonzo as DCC.
With fickle priests ignoring prayers and a magic system with side effects that could turn a human into something like Sheelba or Ningauble, plus the Patrons system, I'd have to say DCC looks like a better fit then SW out of the box, but in either case it will depend on whether the book is the system with a thin coat of Nehwon paint or a true reimagining of the system with respect to the setting.
What's your ideal Lankhmar RPG?
So far,
Crypts & Things is a good fit to play a Lankhmar game true to the stories. (As
Beyond the Wall is very well adapted to play in Earthsea, and then use my own game below for high fantasy merging Moorcock and Hyboria, with traditional high fantasy tropes.)
Really looking forward to the DCC treatment on this. As you say, the patron system is already tailor made really.
I'll say that's my perfect treatment until proved otherwise. :)
Been running Vornheim supplemented with the AD&D Lankhmar books and Mike Mignola's comic adaptation for added inspiration. So far it's been great.
Looking forward to the DCC version, however. I don't actually play DCC, though. Are these books somewhat adaptable to other OSR games or D&D? I'm not really concerned about stat blocks.
Quote from: One Horse Town;822825Really looking forward to the DCC treatment on this. As you say, the patron system is already tailor made really.
I'll say that's my perfect treatment until proved otherwise. :)
Agreed. When DCC RPG first came out, my initial thought was "this is basically Lankhmar with the serial number filed off" and so I think that an offiicial
DCC Lankhmar is a natural.
By the way, my favorite Nehwon world map is from the old TSR board game
Lankhmar. The map is hex-based and on a durable plastic.
I'm reading the books rights now- just finished Swords & Ice Magic.
They're incredible, a riot of joyful, wild imagination, language, and attitude. Absolutely essential reading.
Lanhkmar does seem like a very good fit for DCC.
Before the big announcement on Saturday I was hoping for something aimed at science fantasy... not that Lanhkmar is a disappointment but I'm not quite sure what an 'official' Lanhkmar setting will bring to the game that wasn't there already.
Quote from: Simlasa;822882Lanhkmar does seem like a very good fit for DCC.
Before the big announcement on Saturday I was hoping for something aimed at science fantasy... not that Lanhkmar is a disappointment but I'm not quite sure what an 'official' Lanhkmar setting will bring to the game that wasn't there already.
Well, as a game focused on a genre of setting rather then setting, DCC has a toolkitish feel to it. I always have thought what every toolkit system needs is at least one "Total Conversion" that redoes things to match a setting.
D20 had Everquest RPG, CoC d20, and Mongoose Conan.
Savage Worlds has Solomon Kane and Interface Zero.
Lankhmar would be a great one for DCC. Different spells, Gods, Patrons, less healing, different character types - if nothing else it.gives you tons of stuff to add to bog standard DCC and seeing how far they've stretched the system can give you ideas to make you own Total Conversion.
Quote from: CRKrueger;822885Different spells, Gods, Patrons, less healing, different character types - if nothing else it.gives you tons of stuff to add to bog standard DCC and seeing how far they've stretched the system can give you ideas to make you own Total Conversion.
All good points... I'm not complaining at all, but I am more likely to rob it for ideas than actually base play there, so I'm less interested in maps and minutae, more in useful booty I can steal for use elsewhere.
Apparently it will forego lvl 0 and the funnel... and clerics... and mercurial magic (personalized spell FX)... will have lots more crossover between classes, ramp up the Luck mechanic... and new Patrons and spells of course. It also looks like they're tinkering with Patrons of various sorts for non-MU classes... which is a thing I'm particularly excited about.
I'd heard there were also advancements toward a refab of Goodman's old Aereth setting, which I'm only glancingly familiar with.
For those interested in the Savage Worlds version, Pinnacle just announced a release date for the PDFs and print-preorder: Two weeks from tomorrow, on April 14th. They also have a Setting Rule preview on Facebook:
QuoteNo Honor Among Thieves
Betrayal is a part of life in the City of Thieves. Sometimes a companion double-crosses his mates over a few gold pieces. Other times he might cheat on a friend over the love of a woman. Most of these betrayals are met with a wry smile and a vow to reciprocate at some future date. There is no honor among thieves, after all.
Sometimes the betrayal is more personal. In Lankhmar, whenever a character is betrayed by a close friend or associate (a trusted ally or even another player character—Game Master's call), he cannot spend a Benny to reroll any opposed defensive action.
If the betrayal is an actual attack (almost assuredly with The Drop) and the victim doesn't Soak all the wounds and / or remove the Shaken, he must make a Vigor roll versus the damage or go unconsciousness per the Knock Out Blow rules on page 25). He may not spend Bennies on this roll.
That's probably going to be one of the main differences between the two versions, SW will have setting-based narrative rules to emulate the genre, while I hope DCC sticks to traditional rules that emulate how things work in Nehwon.
A few hints on some of the changes we might be seeing in the DCC version of Lankhmar from someone who played a module at a con.
https://skylandgames.wordpress.com/2015/03/30/dcc-lankhmar/
Only 3 classes is what jumped out at me. Seems to emulate the setting quite well. Hope it lends itself to either long-term play or multiple campaigns.
Holy crap, this sounds awesome. DCC seemed (seemed being the keyword) too much fussiness to me, but this sounds pitch perfect.
I might have to give Joe some $s.
Cheers
What kind of game does the Lakhmar setting inspire? What's its raison d'etre? I am familiar with the setting, just wondering what it has to offer in particular for gaming these days.
Can't wait for DCC Lankhmar. I could hardly think of a better fitting system.
SW is a good game with some decent S&S adaptions, but it isn't half as freewheeling and willing to throw any semblance of game balance out of the window as DCC is.
I'd do it in RQ6, but DCC can be an awesome fit too.
Quote from: Imperator;823201I'd do it in RQ6, but DCC can be an awesome fit too.
I was thinking RQ6 also, but that system seems to be my go to for most fantasy I enjoy.
Quote from: Imperator;823201I'd do it in RQ6, but DCC can be an awesome fit too.
I'd myself use probably some sort of fusion between Runequest and Warhammer. Warhammer's magic'd be a better fit for the setting I think.
Re: Runequest 6 version
They did a Mongoose Runequest version. PDFs are no longer available, but you can find it second hand print.
http://rpggeek.com/rpgitem/69431/lankhmar-unleashed
DCC, no question. It was made for Lankhmar.
Quote from: Imperator;823201I'd do it in RQ6, but DCC can be an awesome fit too.
Quote from: Kravell;823304I was thinking RQ6 also, but that system seems to be my go to for most fantasy I enjoy.
+1, but then I default to RQ6 every time I'm handed a setting that D&D (or simulacra thereof) doesn't quite do straight off the box.
I remain entertained and sometimes even awed by the OSR's collective ability to twist the TSR D&D engine into new shapes, but being a lazy bum myself, I find BRP-powered fantasy games easier to customize.
And in this particular instance, well shit, there's a MRQ2 version published already.
I agree about RuneQuest 6. It seems like if you really want to emulate Lankhmar style characters, only a skill-based system will do the trick. Otherwise as soon as you want to create Fafhrd and Gray Mouser type characters you'd have to reach for multiple multi-classing from the get go. I think you'd have to use something like the Very Bad Things tables from Monster Island for magic gone haywire, and actually the Theistic magic described in that supplement fits a swords & sorcery game very well. That said, RQ doesn't have the same gonzo elements baked into the rules that DCC does. You'd have to provide the flavour yourself. But like other posters, RuneQuest is just my go to game for fantasy these days. It's easy to learn and grok, and incredibly adaptable. The Passions rules also come to mind, for acquiring a paramour or indeed a Loyalty Passion to a patron.
Quote from: The Butcher;824630And in this particular instance, well shit, there's a MRQ2 version published already.
MRQI, IIRC, but yeah, lot's been done.
Quote from: markfitz;824639That said, RQ doesn't have the same gonzo elements baked into the rules that DCC does. You'd have to provide the flavour yourself. But like other posters, RuneQuest is just my go to game for fantasy these days. It's easy to learn and grok, and incredibly adaptable. The Passions rules also come to mind, for acquiring a paramour or indeed a Loyalty Passion to a patron.
Oddly enough, the fact that Nehwon, the world where you can go to the "Death Pole" and steal something from Death's house, seems infinitely
less gonzo than bog-standard DCC means I think Lankhmar is going to be great for the DCC line, if for no other reason just to show how you can dial stuff down a notch or 4, because it's not the case that DCC is by default dialed to 11, it's that 1-10 doesn't even exist on the dial. :D
So I'm not looking for the best system for Lankhmar, yeah that would probably be RQ6, I'm looking for a polished version of DCC I can actually play without hanging Disco Balls from the ceiling and snorting cocaine.
I don't know; if you look at DCC ONLY through the main rulebook, its rules seem full of potential for gonzo but the implied setting doesn't have as much gonzo as the rules should suggest.
That's part of what inspired me to make my "Last Sun" setting: it is DCC maximized to its Gonzo-potential.
Quote from: RPGPundit;825024That's part of what inspired me to make my "Last Sun" setting: it is DCC maximized to its Gonzo-potential.
The setting I cobbled up for DCC is looking more and more like Arduin crossed with Planescape... not that that was what I was aiming for but it's where the current took us.
Quote from: Simlasa;825030The setting I cobbled up for DCC is looking more and more like Arduin crossed with Planescape... not that that was what I was aiming for but it's where the current took us.
That doesn't sound too bad.
Does anyone know how there came to be two licenses for the same setting?
I'd like to know too. Goodman specifically says "Licensed from the Estate of Fritz Leiber" which could be telling. Shane wrote some of the old TSR stuff, it's possible he retained some rights to some of his writings? Mongoose published Lankhmar under MRQI, was that OGL? I don't remember. It could simply be Pinnacle didn't get an exclusive license, they license a lot of settings that are available in other systems.
Quote from: CRKrueger;826916It could simply be Pinnacle didn't get an exclusive license, they license a lot of settings that are available in other systems.
Shane said on the Pinnacle forums that this was the case and their license wasn't exclusive. I believe they got the license first but I'm not 100% certain on that.
It's really nice to have two versions, and I'd be torn.
I can see that DCC calls out to Lhankmar, but I also find SW such a cracking games engine that I'd be very drawn there as well.
So, it'd be down to my players. Round here I don't know how they'd vote but I suspect SW.. or FATE..
Quote from: Brand55;826930Shane said on the Pinnacle forums that this was the case and their license wasn't exclusive. I believe they got the license first but I'm not 100% certain on that.
That's great. Thank god the Leiber Estate didn't have some marketing drone shit-babbling in their ear about "diluting the Brand".
I'm glad that there's more than one option and lots of stuff out there. But that said, DCC kicks the living shit out of SW at doing Lankhmar.
Isn't DCC the game in which you make like 6-7 characters and which one(s) survives the first adventure is the one you play for the rest of the campaign?
Quote from: Christopher Brady;827296Isn't DCC the game in which you make like 6-7 characters and which one(s) survives the first adventure is the one you play for the rest of the campaign?
[strike]Black Mouser[/strike]...[strike]Brown Mouser[/strike]...[strike]Orange Mouser[/strike]...[strike]Blue Mouser[/strike]...[strike]Striped Mouser[/strike]...[strike]Calico Mouser[/strike]...Gray Mouser.
Quote from: RPGPundit;827277I'm glad that there's more than one option and lots of stuff out there. But that said, DCC kicks the living shit out of SW at doing Lankhmar.
I'm interested in why you think DCC is a better system for Lankhmar than SW. Are there mechanical issues that make DCC better? I've read the SW Lankhmar rules but I have not seen the DCC Lankmar rules, so I don't know how they are planning to change it to fit in with the Lankhmar setting.
I think the Wizard corruption rules from DCC fit in well with the Lankhmar setting. On the other hand I like how the SW system encourages longer casting times including the ritual rules.
Quote from: Christopher Brady;827296Isn't DCC the game in which you make like 6-7 characters and which one(s) survives the first adventure is the one you play for the rest of the campaign?
I think I remember reading that DCC Lankhmar won't use the Funnel approach to starting PCs.
Quote from: mkro95;827410I think the Wizard corruption rules from DCC fit in well with the Lankhmar setting. On the other hand I like how the SW system encourages longer casting times including the ritual rules.
DCC has rituals as well, up till now there hasn't been much done with them... but they're another thing I seem to remember being mentioned as a part of DCC's Lankhmar.
Quote from: Simlasa;827417I think I remember reading that DCC Lankhmar won't use the Funnel approach to starting PCs.
So I did remember right (and for the record, I was only repeating what I heard, not claiming any sort of stance of it being 'good' or 'bad'. Just to clarify.)
I see that the Savage Worlds PDF version of the book is out, anyone get it? I want to, but I'm poor, broke (at the moment) and I want to know what the opinions on it are.
Quote from: Christopher Brady;827461So I did remember right (and for the record, I was only repeating what I heard, not claiming any sort of stance of it being 'good' or 'bad'. Just to clarify.)
I see that the Savage Worlds PDF version of the book is out, anyone get it? I want to, but I'm poor, broke (at the moment) and I want to know what the opinions on it are.
I've only read through it once, but I thought it captured the feel of Lankhmar from the books. I'm torn because I really need to finish running my Hellfrost campaign before I get my players into Lankhmar.
I'm reading the very last Leiber Lankhmar story right now.
Jesus, this shit is GOLD. It's like if Charles Bukowski wrote fantasy.
Quote from: Bren;827380[strike]Black Mouser[/strike]...[strike]Brown Mouser[/strike]...[strike]Orange Mouser[/strike]...[strike]Blue Mouser[/strike]...[strike]Striped Mouser[/strike]...[strike]Calico Mouser[/strike]...Gray Mouser.
This made me laugh! I'd like to see a list for Fafhrd just to see how many consonants can be strung together.
Quote from: Narmer;827751This made me laugh! I'd like to see a list for Fafhrd just to see how many consonants can be strung together.
Oh that's easy...
[strike]Fapherd[/strike], [strike]Fafferd[/strike], [strike]Faferd[/strike], [strike]Fafherd[/strike], [strike]Fafherhd[/strike], [strike]Faferhd[/strike], Fafhrd,
Quote from: Narmer;827751This made me laugh! I'd like to see a list for Fafhrd just to see how many consonants can be strung together.
Your wish is my command.
[strike]Fahfrd[/strike], [strike]Farfhd[/strike], [strike]Fffrhd[/strike], [strike]Faafrd[/strike], [strike]Fffhrd[/strike], [strike]Fhfhrd[/strike], Fafhrd.
Quote from: Christopher Brady;827296Isn't DCC the game in which you make like 6-7 characters and which one(s) survives the first adventure is the one you play for the rest of the campaign?
In my experience it's not usually like that. In my campaign I have players make three 0-level characters, and it's not uncommon that 2 or even 3 survive to first level (at which point I have them pick one of the characters, while the other survivors stay in 'reserve' as 1st level backup characters).
And "play for the rest of the campaign" is very ambitious. In our campaign (which has been going for about 2.5 years now of fortnightly play) the longest-lived PC made it to level 6. Every player who has been in at least half of the sessions has been through at least 2 1st-level+ characters.
Quote from: mkro95;827410I'm interested in why you think DCC is a better system for Lankhmar than SW. Are there mechanical issues that make DCC better? I've read the SW Lankhmar rules but I have not seen the DCC Lankmar rules, so I don't know how they are planning to change it to fit in with the Lankhmar setting.
I think the Wizard corruption rules from DCC fit in well with the Lankhmar setting. On the other hand I like how the SW system encourages longer casting times including the ritual rules.
First, welcome to theRPGsite!
Second, I just think the stylistic qualities of the game are completely set up for a Lankhmar type setting.
For ritual stuff, one thing I could see them doing is making any use of spellburn require a ritual-casting. In my own game, to offset the tendency to just blow absolutely everything in a single huge spellburn against the main opponents, I made the house rule that you can only spellburn from one attribute per round (so that if you want to spellburn multiple attributes you have to take extra rounds of casting time).
Quote from: Bren;827767Oh that's easy...
[strike]Fapherd[/strike]
I would have crossed fap-herding off the list pretty quick too.
Quote from: Melichor;828995I would have crossed fap-herding off the list pretty quick too.
Faps are dumb and smelly, but late at night after a few drinks nothing beats a good fap curry. ;)
Quote from: RPGPundit;828779First, welcome to theRPGsite!
Thanks!
One of the things I don't like about OSR games is the hit point scaling at high levels; you have a lot more hit points so you can absorb a lot more damage. However in my LotFP game no one ever made it past 4th level. In 1st ed AD&D Fafhrd and Mouser had 130 and 90 HP respectively at their peak (level 20). In SW Fafhrd and Mouser have 10 and 7 toughness respectively at their peak which makes the much more vulnerable. At high levels in SW characters have a lot of edges so taking them all into account becomes a pain. DCC only goes to 10th level so it might not be as bad.
This weekend I finally got a chance to play DCC for the first time at a local con and had a good time. I think DCC does a much better job with magic than most OSR games. Everything is dependent on tables. While this slows down the pace of the game, it also makes magic more interesting and chaotic.
Quote from: Bren;829000nothing beats a good fap curry. ;)
That's what she said.
Quote from: mkro95;829017Quote from: RPGPundit;828779First, welcome to theRPGsite!
Thanks!
One of the things I don't like about OSR games is the hit point scaling at high levels; you have a lot more hit points so you can absorb a lot more damage.
I can understand that. I have nothing against it in general, but for certain types of games yes, it's better to not have as much HP inflation.
So, for example, in Dark Albion there'll be a set of house rules in an appendix that present a modification of the standard game where there'll be far lower levels of HP at higher levels.