First off, your mods seem OK to me. I think that adjusting base AC to reduce the miss factor will work against the PC's survivability more than for it, though, if that is a concern for you.

Quote from: misterguignol;448662I think there is a bit of a fallacy to the often-repeated idea that "horror and dread" are related to character "power."  In my experience, horror and dread are more about atmosphere than stats.  

I do think maintaining a sense of horror and dread is much harder in an RPG if the characters/players do not feel personally vulnerable. If they are very resilient and confident in their ability to confront any situation directly, the atmosphere usually doesn't cling to the PCs as much. Stats do play into this, but of course are only one part of that.

Quote from: misterguignol;448662Also, what's to say that any monsters won't have their stats adjusted accordingly?  The point in giving characters a little bit of a boost is both to give more flavor/options and so that I can use more powerful/interesting monsters right out of the gate without having to muck about with kobolds and the like.

Quote from: Benoist;448672Then all your mods are basically illusionism. They don't provide any padding to the characters, because monsters are equally more lethal.

Ben, apologies for snipping your reply down to just this sentence but I just wanted to point out that it's not necessarily illusionism to adjust where the characters are relative to base; if that were the case, being second level would always be illusionism.

Unless I am misreading M. Guignol's purpose behind adjusting beginning, characters, I see it in terms of making beginning PCs stronger relative to peasants and wolves and so on. Which doesn't make it illusionistic to have them still be limited in their ability to deal with, let's say, Pyramid Head.

Quote from: Benoist;448724Ah, you did understand that post.

You're welcome. Any time. :hatsoff:

I picture you tearing off your beret while yelling "sacrebleu!" and breaking a loaf of French bread over your knee in consternation.  How far off am I?

Quote from: misterguignol;448702Yes, yes, grandpa, they way you pretend to be a Fairy Princess is very tough and manly.

PS: You should have the PCs overhear one NPC saying this to another. This would certainly generate an atmosphere of dread and horror.

Quote from: Cole;448727PS: You should have the PCs overhear one NPC saying this to another. This would certainly generate an atmosphere of dread and horror.

You know, you're not wrong.

Quote from: Benoist;448724Ah, you did understand that post.

You're welcome. Any time. :hatsoff:

Quote from: misterguignol;448726I picture you tearing off your beret while yelling "sacrebleu!" and breaking a loaf of French bread over your knee in consternation.  How far off am I?

Ben, if you make a profile picture of that, you win the thread.

Quote from: misterguignol;448726I picture you tearing off your beret while yelling "sacrebleu!" and breaking a loaf of French bread over your knee in consternation.  How far off am I?

Pretty far.

Quote from: Cole;448725Ben, apologies for snipping your reply down to just this sentence but I just wanted to point out that it's not necessarily illusionism to adjust where the characters are relative to base; if that were the case, being second level would always be illusionism.

Depends on how the base is defined. Being 2nd level while all the creatures basically follow your power curve is essentially illusionism. Being 2nd level in a world in motion that exists besides the characters' existence is not.

Quote from: Cole;448725Unless I am misreading M. Guignol's purpose behind adjusting beginning, characters, I see it in terms of making beginning PCs stronger relative to peasants and wolves and so on. Which doesn't make it illusionistic to have them still be limited in their ability to deal with, let's say, Pyramid Head.

Yeah, that's not what I was getting at all when he asked "what's to say that any monsters won't have their stats adjusted accordingly?" (link). Now granted, given his level of reading comprehension, maybe he actually didn't mean what he wrote at all. The guy's so far up the defensive that he very well might shift his take just to get some support in his imaginary fight.

Quote from: Benoist;448730Yeah, that's not what I was getting at all when he asked "what's to say that any monsters won't have their stats adjusted accordingly?" (link). Now granted, given his level of reading comprehension, maybe he actually didn't mean what he wrote at all. The guy's so far up the defensive that he very well might shift his take just to get some support in his imaginary fight.

You're right about there being an imaginary fight, but sadly you don't see that it's in your head.  You can say that I'm defensive, but I'm not the one who has fallen to the ad hominem of questioning your reading comprehension.  You're really riled up for a guy that has no stakes in this.  At all.  

Because, honestly?  I don't have to play with you at my table, so I really don't care what you think.

Anyway, Cole has the right of it as far as my intentions are concerned.

Quote from: misterguignol;448731I'm not the one who has fallen to the ad hominem

Dude, you chose that path by post #8.

But hey. Whatever. I'm happy for you. Enjoy.

Quote from: Cole;448727PS: You should have the PCs overhear one NPC saying this to another. This would certainly generate an atmosphere of dread and horror.

Quote from: misterguignol;448728You know, you're not wrong.

Also, if at any point you want to amplify "dread and horror" into "grimdark," it may help to include two dogs fucking a goat, that being the very essence of grimdark.

Because,  always remember:

Quote from: Blackhand;407274SOME FUCKING WHERE, IN THE IMPERIUM, RIGHT NOW, TWO DOGS ARE FUCKING A GOAT.

AT ANY GIVEN TIME.

Quote from: Benoist;448732Dude, you chose that path by post #8.

But hey. Whatever. I'm happy for you. Enjoy.

Will do!

Quote from: Benoist;448730is defined. Being 2nd level while all the creatures basically follow your power curve is essentially illusionism. Being 2nd level in a world in motion that exists besides the characters' existence is not.

Yeah, that's pretty much my perspective. Another (maybe simpler) way of looking at is that you're just adding to the pool of things that are weaker than beginning PCs (the pool of things tougher than beginning PCs is always vast). This does add some tactical (and strategic) variance.

Quote from: Benoist;448730Yeah, that's not what I was getting at all when he asked "what's to say that any monsters won't have their stats adjusted accordingly?" (link).

Quote from: misterguignol;448731Anyway, Cole has the right of it as far as my intentions are concerned.

Hooray for me!

By the way, I wanted to point out a particularity of the rules that I found had a large impact in play, pertaining to when spells are cast (emphasis mine):

Quote from: P.80, [B]Cast a Spell[/B]Spells with an instantaneous duration happen right away. All other spells take effect at the beginning of the next round before initiative rolls are made.

If a character has taken any damage earlier in a round, the character cannot cast a spell that round.

Once we had the situation where a PC was killed by some orcs at the end of the round wherein he cast Sleep, only to have the orcs fall asleep after his death at the beginning of the next round. A misunderstanding of the spell completion rules affected our tactics for the worse in this case, I think.

Quote from: misterguignol;4486461) attributes will be rolled via the 4d6-drop-lowest method.  That's how we've done it since the 2e AD&D days and I don't see a reason to change that now.

That's exactly why you might want to change it.  

Consider 3D6 down the line and then +1 bonus to any one stat per level.

Quote from: misterguignol;4486462) Armor Class is 10 + Dex bonus, Armor bonus, etc.  I'm not sure why LotFP uses 12+, but I like combat to be low on whiff and quick to finish.

The whiff on AC 12 base is bizarre.  It's one of the reasons I enjoy the Palladium system of ablative armor.  If you pump the HP, why not lower the base AC to 8?  Give the PCs a base HP equal to CON and then have them roll HP for levels.

This gives you less whiff, but the PCs get the illusion of being meaty.

Quote from: misterguignol;448648I'd like to have 1st level characters with a bit more oomph, since I anticipate this campaign being deadly.

Why not start at 2nd or 3rd?  

Quote from: misterguignol;448648Elves are terrifyingly capricious monsters that live int he forest and steal children; dwarfs are misshapen crafters of magic items that live in seculsion; halflings are hillbilly cannibals, etc.

Good stuff!

Quote from: misterguignol;448650No tracking of experience points; that shit is for accountants.  Characters will all level up at the same time, when I say they do.

That works fine...as long as your players aren't into counting XP.

Quote from: misterguignol;448650I realize that since class benefits are fairly front-loaded in LotFP having more than once class will be a very attractive option.

Because of the front loading, you may want to demand higher minimum scores when multiclassing and perhaps only allowing 2 classes max.  

Quote from: misterguignol;448651Last one for now, but Jeff's Consolation Prize Mechanic is too cool not to use.

Good stuff.

Quote from: misterguignol;448662I think there is a bit of a fallacy to the often-repeated idea that "horror and dread" are related to character "power."  In my experience, horror and dread are more about atmosphere than stats.

As a Rifts GM and the 4e Tyrant of Fun, I agree.

Quote from: misterguignol;448650Mutilclassing and Leveling

No tracking of experience points; that shit is for accountants.  Characters will all level up at the same time, when I say they do.

I missed this post before, but I wanted to make the observation that if you have level-up by GM fiat only, you remove the ability of the PCs to be proactive about their own advancement. You may be OK with this, but it's worth thinking about.

(I have done this before, though in 3e, not LOTFP, and I didn't think the experiment was a great success. If it works for you, of course, go for it.)

But I am speaking as longtime fan of Gold-for-XP, which I miss in later D&D editions. I like its abstract, but independent way of rewarding game success in a game that assumes the characters desire fortune and riches. It could be rewarding to find a way to comparably abstract the broad goals of the PCs and find a comparable way to 'score' their success in those goals in a way that they can directly affect.

Quote from: Benoist;448660As a matter of opinion, I think the feeling of fragility of your character participates to the sense of dread you might get out of the game.

IME, that doesn't need to be that way. I've run some seriously scary games of Nobilis, high-level D&D and RQ, and the like, so fragility may help,. but its lack it's nt an impediment to get peole scared.

QuoteI think a lot of your house rules run counter to this. You're providing highest stats for more modifiers (4d6 drop lowest), full hit points at first level, provide perks for failure, bonus spells and damage... all these things are perfectly fine of course, it's your game, but combined, it makes it seem like what you want is a superheroic game, not a game of horror and dread where you might fear for your character's life and avoid combat whenever possible.

I don't see nothing superheroic in rolling 4d6, specially in old-school D&D editions where the stats have a little impact on themecanics of the game. Same for max hp at first level.