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Would you, could you?

I have fond memories of the place but I don't want to revisit the modules very much. I like the DL1 Xak Tsaroth dungeon.

If you take out a lot of the metaplot, have the powers that be hovering in some kind of coldwar/stasis, play down the Draconians a bit, probably remove the Kender (stop "that guy" playing Kender).

What would be a good way of playing on Krynn but without going through the motions of the modules, novels and all the rest of it?

Take the world of DL 1 "Dragons of Despair", use those maps, those gods, the races. Screw how it "was" played.

One easy way to use Krynn as a sandbox is to use the "other" continent - Taladas, which was detailed in the Time of the Dragon box set. It's the only DL gaming I've been tempted to do in the past twenty years...

Another possibility would be the Fifth Age as presented in the core set of the same name--lots of stuff simmering, but room to play, and no gods to pull the PCs out of the fire.

I don't see any problem running Dragonlance as a sandbox. The metaplot issues could be happening in the background, influencing the entire setting but the main actions committed by PCs...or not.

Set a campaign a century before the War of the Lance; the metaplot is either not yet happening or in such early stages it can be completely be ignored and is never going to affect the players.

Plus post-Cataclysm pre-WotL Krynn is a fascinating setting and easy to get a feel for from the modules and Dragonlance Adventures.  It is grim but not grimdark - no magical healing or true dragons about but you still have the wizards, suspicous Elven kingdoms, religious cults springing up everywhere (ranging from the well meaning to the corrupt to the outright crazy), Palanthas for a bit of civilisation...

Quote from: Spinachcat;733680I don't see any problem running Dragonlance as a sandbox. The metaplot issues could be happening in the background, influencing the entire setting but the main actions committed by PCs...or not.

I concur with this. Just study the setting as existed prior to DL 1, figure out the timeline of what would happen if the PCs didn't exist, then run the game modifying the timeline in light of the PC's action or in-action.

You can sandbox any campaign setting, "Hey guys, what would you like to do?"  

Confused on what is causing you issues?

So much of DL (in my head at least) is on rails. Curious as to how to get it off the rails effectively.

Quote from: BarefootGaijin;733766So much of DL (in my head at least) is on rails. Curious as to how to get it off the rails effectively.

Dont use modules.

Dont have the PCs interacting with the main event.

There was lots going on during and after the first trilogy that the PCs could be a part of and no one would ever know from the books. Just like you can run games set in the Forgotten Realms and never run into Elminster, Harpers, Alias, Olive, etc.

I never had any of the DL modules and just ran the players off doing their own thing. Wether or not it contributed to the larger novel plot was irrelevant to us.

Quote from: BarefootGaijin;733766So much of DL (in my head at least) is on rails. Curious as to how to get it off the rails effectively.

What exactly makes you use the metaplot?

Dm:  Whatcha guys want to do?
PCs:  Integrate ourselves into Kitiara's army, work our way up the ranks, kill her and take over.

Honestly stumped as to what the issue is.

I've been idly thinking of a sandbox setting for ACKS that combines bits from Dragonlance, Arcana Evolved and even 13th Age. Basically, the obligatory cataclysm that pushes the world into the obligatory D&D dark age comes as long-dormant dragons, possibly stirred by cultists of a Takhisis-like evil dragon deity, wake up and lay waste to the land. I might even use the Thrassian race introduced in the ACKS Player's Companion as a stand-in for draconians (perhaps even rename them Dragonborn for shits & giggles), and make up a few new Thrassian classes of my own.

Taladas was amazing.  Krynn on the other hand was so unidmensional I couldn't think of a more boring TSR world in which to do a sandbox.

Quote from: RPGPundit;734451Taladas was amazing.  Krynn on the other hand was so unidmensional I couldn't think of a more boring TSR world in which to do a sandbox.

I got the general impression Krynn was mostly a "people" driven setting as opposed to a monster driven one. When you werent wacking draconians. It was very one dimensional in a way. Or more aptly the depth was there, but infrequent.

If you like a setting more on people and battles as opposed to monster of the week. Dragonlance worked.

Quote from: RPGPundit;734451Taladas was amazing.  Krynn on the other hand was so unidmensional I couldn't think of a more boring TSR world in which to do a sandbox.

There is some interesting stuff there. Taladas is great, and I love the races and the different spin on elves and minotaurs.

There is stuff there that can be used, other stuff ignored wholesale. I mean, to try and get myself into it a bit I was reading through DL 1, the Dragons of Despair module.

This is the nonsense part of the post where I rip Dragonlance a new one.
The big railroad comes from "this will happen at a specific time, not location". Whilst it probably seemed like a good idea at the time, it doesn't sit well now. Not with me anyway.

Oh, and the negative modifiers. Real random stuff: Make a DEX check at -5 to cross this dodgy bridge. You are heroes, this is why you are on this terrible fated journey, you just need crutches or a fucking wheelchair to do it. Did Xak Tsaroth come with a stair-lift to help our heroes?

If you fail, you fall in some water and there's a 50% chance you will disturb something that will inevitably kill you: Catoblepas - Gaze causes death. 1-10 Black Dragon Hatchlings (dragons haven't been seen for 1000 years, but here are 10 small ones and their mother in the next encounter). 1-6 poisonous snakes, or 2-12 wraiths doing 1d6 damage with the ever popular level drain. It will only be those ones though, because the roll is 1d4+20, so you only get hammered by numbers 21-24.

Then there are Draconians firing web spells with a -2 to saving throws. A -2 because there are trees behind the PCs and they might get tangled in them.


A unicorn told you to escort the random blonde, her boyfriend and that glowing blue stick of hers to the most dangerous location within walking distance. Rather than get the fuck out of here with all the other people escaping doom. Time to put down the crack pipe.

It has a nice map, I have always liked exploding/turning to stone/acid thingy bad guys. But that song. Did anyone EVER sing that song when introducing their pre-gens? Really? Really?? Saying that the module is "a railroad" is a terribly polite way of saying it is shit.

Normality Resumes here.
Nice maps, under exploited bits and pieces I expect. Looks like fun. But yeah..... No. NO. No songs, no heroes of the lance, no singing, wandering tribes people, cosplaying thing.

I used the 2e hardcover Krynn worldbook and the non-gaming Atlas of Krynn map book for several campaigns. Had a lot of fun with them. One of my biggest problems early on was that the companions pretty much left all of the mapped locations in ruins when they moved on (Solace, Xak Tsaroth, Dragon Citadel, etc.). I wanted my players to be able to explore these places so I set the campaigns just before the War of the Lance, during troop build ups amid rumors of war and dragons. The lack of magical healing also made the game pretty brutal (I substituted herbal remedies that could heal minor wounds). Never used the modules for anything more than sourcebooks/idea mines.

Quote from: RPGPundit;734451Taladas was amazing.  Krynn on the other hand was so unidmensional I couldn't think of a more boring TSR world in which to do a sandbox.

I think you mean Ansalon, the continent nearly everything in Dragonlance is set on.  Krynn is the planet which contains both Ansalon and Taladas.

That said I definitely disagree. Pre-War of the Lance Ansalon is a fantastic low magic, gritty setting with no clerics to patch your wounds, where wizards belong to a sinister semi-secret franterity with its own agenda (that hunts down a kills freelances), where corrupt cults are willing to burn witches alive at the drop of a hat, where the elves will shoot you if you set foot in their lands without being asked.

Ansalon at the beginning of Dragons of Autumn Twilight is basically WFRP with fewer cannons (and even then there are the gnomes...)

I think the big obstacle with using Krynn as presented for the sandbox isn't the metaplot of the novels and modules as such - it's the fact that the setting was designed to be the backdrop for that particular plot, and so at least in early presentations the stuff going on with the metaplot seems much more important and developed and real than any sideshow stuff going on elsewhere. So you'd have the feeling going in that if the PCs didn't involve themselves with the metaplot, they'd be missing the whole point of the setting - like playing a 40K RPG but ignoring the Imperium.

I guess later presentations of the setting that weren't tied to the original module series might have added more hooks and fleshed out the world a little more broadly, though I'm not aware of any which have had rave reviews.

Quote from: Warthur;734533I think the big obstacle with using Krynn as presented for the sandbox isn't the metaplot of the novels and modules as such - it's the fact that the setting was designed to be the backdrop for that particular plot, and so at least in early presentations the stuff going on with the metaplot seems much more important and developed and real than any sideshow stuff going on elsewhere. So you'd have the feeling going in that if the PCs didn't involve themselves with the metaplot, they'd be missing the whole point of the setting - like playing a 40K RPG but ignoring the Imperium.

I guess later presentations of the setting that weren't tied to the original module series might have added more hooks and fleshed out the world a little more broadly, though I'm not aware of any which have had rave reviews.

Heroes of Defiance fleshed out the Ergothian Empire pretty nicely iirc (it is statted for the 5th Age SAGA system but most of the information is rules neutral.)

Quote from: BarefootGaijin;734475There is stuff there that can be used, other stuff ignored wholesale. I mean, to try and get myself into it a bit I was reading through DL 1, the Dragons of Despair module.

OK, now I understand.  You are not talking about Dragonlance as the entire campaign setting.  You are only talking about a shitty module.

Yeah, Greyhawk would suck eggs as a sandbox if I only looked at Child's Play.