Kickstarter page here (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2036759092/beyond-the-pit-advanced-fighting-fantasy). It's a compilation of Fighting Fantasy monsters which didn't get into the original Out of the Pit (there were a lot of them - Out of the Pit came out in 1985, when the Fighting Fantasy craze had barely begun, so you're not dealing with a bunch of rejects that weren't good enough for the first volume).
As a backer of Graham's previous Kickstarter (Maelstrom: Domesday) I can confirm that Graham's been just the right level of communicative throughout the project - giving enough updates to reassure that things are ticking along at a nice pace but not so many as to be overwhelming or redundant - and he seems to be on track to get Maelstrom: Domesday out at Dragonmeet early next month. What's sold me on this Kickstarter is that apparently the book is already at a late enough point in its development that it'll go to print almost as soon as the Kickstarter ends - the Kickstarter is literally just a matter of paying the printing costs.
Do I have the conversion right? Is that $35 for a softcover? Plus another $8 for shipping outside the UK?
One of the things I've been happy about with the new AFF thus far is that none of it has gone through Kickstarter...oh well.
Quote from: Bobloblah;705522One of the things I've been happy about with the new AFF thus far is that none of it has gone through Kickstarter...oh well.
Blacksand was funded via Indiegogo: http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/aff-blacksand-book/x/332342
Quote from: Technomancer;705521Do I have the conversion right? Is that $35 for a softcover? Plus another $8 for shipping outside the UK?
Yep, according to xe.com. Obviously actual conversion is done in 4 weeks time.
Quote from: Technomancer;705521Do I have the conversion right? Is that $35 for a softcover? Plus another $8 for shipping outside the UK?
About that yeah. A snip at only 30% more than they're currently selling "Out of the Pit" for on their own web page...
I suppose I could be wrong in the assumption that this will likewise be a 128pg B&W book, but given they both claim 250 monsters it seems likely.
Yeah, Kickstarter takes a cut, so that's at least some of that difference.
Didn't know Blacksand funded through Indiegogo, as I never use it.
Quote from: Bobloblah;705531Didn't know Blacksand funded through Indiegogo, as I never use it.
I am guessing that's why Graham has shifted to using Kickstarter.
Quote from: Bobloblah;705531Yeah, Kickstarter takes a cut, so that's at least some of that difference.
Yeah, but Cubicle 7 will take a cut too for selling the books he's selling through them.
At the end of the day, the Kickstarter needs to provide him sufficient profit to meet his fixed costs for printing, so he can price reward levels at whatever the hell he wants. But ultimately anyone offering rewards that are just "the book you can buy in shops later" has to recognise that some potential backers will choose not to fund if you're charging more than they'll pay later in store.
Right now, unless you want the deluxe edition, the rational decision for a potential backer is just to favourite the drive and back at the last moment if it looks like it might not fund, and so your pledge is needed to ensure the book exists. Or to put it another way - to hope that enough other people pay the premium so you don't have to.
Yes, assuming that the book doesn't end up costing more overall.
Quote from: Bobloblah;705538Yes, assuming that the book doesn't end up costing more overall.
There's not a single AFF book over £20 currently - http://shop.cubicle7store.com/epages/es113347.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/es113347_shop/Categories/Advanced_Fighting_Fantasy
I understand. I own them. I'm simply pointing out that we don't yet know if this is the new normal, or not. As you pointed out, it's a bit daft if this isn't the pricing going forward. Perhaps someone should point this out to Graham.
Remember the pledge amounts include baseline shipping as well. Looking at C7's site, I would say that the £22 includes at least £2 shipping (with it being £7 for international). That makes the book £20.
I seem to remember the price was the reason I didn't back the indiegogo campaign. Why pay more for now for the exact same product that will be in a store for cheaper?
I guess it could be a ransom kinda thing, where if you really want to see this book out, you pay, and then it can go out into general distribution for potentially less cost.
That's unfortunate, and seems to be treating it like a true patronage model. The Kickstarters I've previously followed rewarded their backers with below MSRP. I do want to see this book out, though, so I'll probably end up doing exactly what Grymbok was suggesting...
Just to comment on the price. The book cover price will be about £17, same as Out of the Pit, with postage costing round about £3 in the UK and up to about £9 or £10 worldwide. So getting it this way means that you may pay a £ or 2 more than final. On the other hand, you are helping to get it published, you will be credited in the book and also you get it first.
Backers will get it by the end of the year. Shops probably won't have it until march or so as it has to enter the C7 publication queue, get printed, distributed etc. I will of course have some for sale from january, but you still have to pay P&P etc then.
And the reason we went down the KS route for this was that paying for 250-odd bits of art is fairly expensive (much more so than for the other books).
Of course, if anyone wants to wait and buy, that is fine by me!
Thanks for the reply, Graham.
Quote from: bottg;705561Backers will get it by the end of the year. Shops probably won't have it until march or so as it has to enter the C7 publication queue, get printed, distributed etc. I will of course have some for sale from january, but you still have to pay P&P etc then.
As a matter of interest, did C7 actually print and distribute the Heroes Companion, Blacksand or Sorcery?
Quote from: Skywalker;705570As a matter of interest, did C7 actually print and distribute the Heroes Companion, Blacksand or Sorcery?
What has happened with all three is that i get it finished, and done a short print run for me to sell as it can take a couple of months to get into distribution via C7. Blacksand is due to be printed next week and should be at distributors shortly afterwards and the Sorcery Spell Book will follow. Heroes companion is now available via distribution.
Oh, and if anyone is going to Indiecon (UK) next weekend, i should have a printed copy of the finished manuscript for people to see.
I just found out about this when it was mentioned at our AFF game tonight. I think this is one Kickstarter that I'm more than happy to back. Now, can I stretch out to the leather version...
BTW Graham, can you PM me your contact details so we can poke you about Conpulsion?
Bottg, I bought the AFF core book and found some of the illustrations didn't come out well, seeming more like grey rather than black line art. Has this problem been addressed?
Quote from: The_Shadow;705976Bottg, I bought the AFF core book and found some of the illustrations didn't come out well, seeming more like grey rather than black line art. Has this problem been addressed?
That sounds like a first printing. The images were all optimised in the pdf and at the printers to darken the art. We have made sure all of the later books have been optimised as well.
I'm unlikely to back this one, not my cup of tea, but as a backer of Maelstrom: Domesday, I can say that Graham's communication throughout the project has been top-notch.
Quote from: bottg;705985That sounds like a first printing. The images were all optimised in the pdf and at the printers to darken the art. We have made sure all of the later books have been optimised as well.
I'm very glad to hear that. I must admit that I was disappointed with my purchase of the core rules due to that. It caused me to shy away from buying the other AFF books.
I don't wish to derail the thread, but are there any plans to release the core rulebook as a hardback?
Quote from: MachFront;706286I'm very glad to hear that. I must admit that I was disappointed with my purchase of the core rules due to that. It caused me to shy away from buying the other AFF books.
I don't wish to derail the thread, but are there any plans to release the core rulebook as a hardback?
That i think is very likely indeed. I have a couple of hardback Blacksands left over from that kickstarter, and they are very nice.
Quote from: bottg;707986That i think is very likely indeed. I have a couple of hardback Blacksands left over from that kickstarter, and they are very nice.
Oooh.. hardback or not, you should send me a review copy; having read and owned that book for a long time and run several campaigns set in Blacksand over the years, I think that a highly positive review would be a foregone conclusion.
RPGPundit
Quote from: RPGPundit;708591Oooh.. hardback or not, you should send me a review copy; having read and owned that book for a long time and run several campaigns set in Blacksand over the years, I think that a highly positive review would be a foregone conclusion.
RPGPundit
In a month or so i will send you a copy of Blacksand and Beyond the Pit for review. I think you will like them!
Quote from: bottg;709203In a month or so i will send you a copy of Blacksand and Beyond the Pit for review. I think you will like them!
Awesome, thanks!
Question for Graham, by the way: I know the AFF 2nd edition books distribute information in a slightly different way from the original Dungeoneer/BlacksandsAllansia books (with the exception of Titan and Out of the Pit, which as far as I can work out are straight reprints). Is there any information in Allansia which hasn't made its way into the core book and Heroes' Companion?
Quote from: Warthur;709476Question for Graham, by the way: I know the AFF 2nd edition books distribute information in a slightly different way from the original Dungeoneer/BlacksandsAllansia books (with the exception of Titan and Out of the Pit, which as far as I can work out are straight reprints). Is there any information in Allansia which hasn't made its way into the core book and Heroes' Companion?
I don't think so. The adventure is obviously not there, and the priests/mass battles/wilderness adventure sections have been altered and updated, but otherwise all of the rules from all three original books have now seen the light of day.
Quote from: bottg;709723I don't think so. The adventure is obviously not there, and the priests/mass battles/wilderness adventure sections have been altered and updated, but otherwise all of the rules from all three original books have now seen the light of day.
Great to hear; never had Allansia back in the day so I couldn't check.